Poll of the Day > Who would win in a fight? Enterprise D vs. Imperial II Star Destroyer

(+) Yeah! (+)

Assume both ships are at the apex of their main timeline power. The Enterprise is helmed by Picard and the rest of the crew. The ISD is commanded by Grand Admiral Thrawn. Two options have been added for the ISD without TIE's (I.E. the ship alone) and the ISD with TIE's (the ship serving it's role as a carrier as well). Neither ship can warp/hyperspace away because technobabble. Finally, Wesley is in a shuttle in between the ships and gets blown up as soon as the battle starts.

If you believe the Enterprise would win, how many ships would Thrawn need in order to defeat the Enterprise D?

Prior Results:

Luke vs. Harry: Luke by 70.21%.
Samus vs. Boba: Samus by 90.91%
Final Fantasy Battle Royal (I-X): Terra by 35.29%

Enterprise dick?

Well that entirely depends on which one of their universe the battle is in.

hypnox posted...

Well that entirely depends on which one of their universe the battle is in.

A demiplane of universes with both and yet neither defined by the pure question of 'who would win?'

One is a dedicated war vessel, commanded by a decorated veteran, the other is a diplomatic vessel commanded by a (at times pacifist) diplomat.

Feels like a rather unfair match-up.

Thrawn would beat Picard with 3 TIE's alone.

Nichtcrawler X posted...

One is a dedicated war vessel, commanded by a decorated veteran, the other is a diplomatic vessel commanded by a (at times pacifist) diplomat.

Feels like a rather unfair match-up.

It's definitely unfair. Because one ship is the primary protagonist of their own universe while the other ship is an generic antagonist in their own. Meaning the Law of Narrative Causality would make it pretty much impossible for the Enterprise to lose.

I'm pretty sure the Enterprise tech is centuries ahead of the ISD tech. ISD has laser weaponry and limited, if any, shielding. I'm not super knowledgeable about star wars tech though.

Sahuagin posted...

I'm pretty sure the Enterprise tech is centuries ahead of the ISD tech. ISD has laser weaponry and limited, if any, shielding. I'm not super knowledgeable about star wars tech though.

Star Wars 'lasers' are not actual 'lasers'. They're blasts of heated Tibana gas IIRC. There's a bunch of reasons why that's used instead.

It's better to think of it like their technology has gone in different directions. Star Trek tech evolved in a galaxy where there was constant wars ongoing but only for a short while while Star Wars tech evolved over millenia in a galaxy not usually at war. Overall I'd say Wars is more advanced on the WHOLE (at least by TNG) but that's factoring in stuff like ground warfare and the like.

Enterprise D because even if an ISD has more power output in its turbo lasers, they still manually aim and will never hit a ship travelling at hundreds of kilometers per second and engaging them at 100,000 kilometers distance. Star Wars ships canonically travel at hundreds of KPH out of hyperspace. They're roughly as fast as modern fighter jets and everything is manually controlled. This is pathetically slow and unresponsive compared to Federation Starships. This is no competition.

I dunno, TNG has hand-held weapons that can vaporize buildings; they just aren't often used at maximum settings. And that's hand-held, the ship phasers can destroy surface targets with pin-point accuracy pretty-much effortlessly, and can basically reduce the surface of a planet to melted rock. And photon torpedos are even more devastating than that. And then their shields are good enough to defend against weapons of that strength.

basically in star trek you have nigh-pacifists with incredibly powerful tech, so they rarely make use of it. in star wars you have relatively weak tech, but it's a constant struggle and everyone is mustering as much advantage as they can out of the tech that is available (and trying to build particularly devastating weapons to gain the most advantage).

it's kind of like comparing superman to ironman or something like that. (or even just DC vs Marvel generally). one is optimistic and idealized, giving extremely powerful but restrained results; the other is pessimistic, with underwhelming strength, but then used without restraint.

The star destroyer would win... it's a matter of scale, a Star Destroyer is the size of a Borg Cube

Lokarin posted...

The star destroyer would win... it's a matter of scale, a Star Destroyer is the size of a Borg Cube

Not even close. A Borg Cube is 3 cubic kilometers. an ISD is 1.6km long 500m wide at its absolute widest and not really tall except for the bridge tower. An ISD is much closer to the size of the Enterprise than it is to a cube.

jiffdiff posted...

Not even close. A Borg Cube is 3 cubic kilometers. an ISD is 1.6km long 500m wide at its absolute widest and not really tall except for the bridge tower. An ISD is much closer to the size of the Enterprise than it is to a cube.

I may have googled the stats for the super star destroyer :v

When it comes to space battles, I think reactor power in Watts is typically the deciding factor.

Also, I don't think the Star Destroyer would be helped by TIE Fighters... they're great fighters, yes; but the Starfleet phaser array combined with the lack of shielding on TIEs means the Enterprise would be able to lock-on and yeet the entire fleet in one shot

Lokarin posted...

I may have googled the stats for the super star destroyer :v

When it comes to space battles, I think reactor power in Watts is typically the deciding factor.

Also, I don't think the Star Destroyer would be helped by TIE Fighters... they're great fighters, yes; but the Starfleet phaser array combined with the lack of shielding on TIEs means the Enterprise would be able to lock-on and yeet the entire fleet in one shot

Maybe with some rookie commander, but this is Thrawn we're talking about here. I'm sure he'll find some bonkers way to use them.

There's a Youtube video that explains this.
Lasers and kinetic weapons are ineffective vs shields.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nn0QybLFWI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sOyqsNNVBY

In any fight between star trek and star wars, you need to use the force in general to balance out the advanced technology (in some ways) of star trek. Without the force being invoked, the advantage (usually) of the star trek fleets would prevail.

But there are exceptions and while Picard is a highly decorated commander and has captained a star ship and fought in many wars, Thrawn is a whole different kettle of fish. I was not joking above when I said Thrawn could win with a handful of Tie's alone. Heck, I wouldn't put it past him to win with just one, or to be dropped on the enterprise naked and end up taking over the whole ship.

Thrawn is a genius, he could probably beat Picard and the whole crew of the enterprise if he was born on earth with todays technology and the enterprise decided to take over the world. Would a star destoyer normally win against the enterprise? Maybe not, but thrawn would figure a way to jump the star destroyer forward into lightspeed directly INTO the enterprise destroying both ships and evacuating his ship first, or something like that (not saying that would work specifically, just that he would use such tactics and FIND a way to win). Picard would not be willing to do what he needed to do even if he could think up a method like that. Thrawn is ruthless, imaginative, and extremely skilled and unless he was put in a position where there was ABSOLUTELY no way to win, I believe he would still win. They basically put Kirk up on a pedestal and made him able to do the impossible (much more then they ever did with Picard who they tried to make more human), but even Kirk wouldn't have a chance against Thrawn.

I ain't saying a destroyer would always win against the enterprise, or even usually, but if Thrawn was in command, they enterprise loses....end of story....unless maybe Picard can use his semi-friendship with Q to his advantage.

TIE fighters would peck the Enterprise to death like birds

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/8/8/AAQwHjAACwqE.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/9/2/AAQwHjAACwqI.png

Lokarin posted...

I may have googled the stats for the super star destroyer :v

Oh yeah an SSD is insanely huge. It still wouldn't be able to hit the Enterprise D, mind you, but it's absurdly large.

Lokarin posted...

Also, I don't think the Star Destroyer would be helped by TIE Fighters... they're great fighters, yes; but the Starfleet phaser array combined with the lack of shielding on TIEs means the Enterprise would be able to lock-on and yeet the entire fleet in one shot

You're forgetting the most important part. The D has computer targeting and TIE fighters are practically standing still even when at full speed. Not 1 TIE fighter will get within 10,000km of the D.

Oh Also the D is several order of magnitudes faster at sublight.

Action53 posted...

TIE fighters would peck the Enterprise to death like birds

See above. They'd never be able to catch it and would be sniped before their pilots could even get into visual range. 24th century computer targeted point defense designed to hit targets moving at relativistic speed with a max effective range equal to about the distance from the Earth to the Moon vs guys manually flying by sight like it's WW2.

Ordinarily, this is a fairly easy match for the Enterprise.

Thrawn finds a way to win though.

ranagrande posted...

Ordinarily, this is a fairly easy match for the Enterprise.

Thrawn finds a way to win though.

Thrawn would be an X-factor in fleet scale operations during wartime where he can strategically make use of hyperspace being substantially faster than warp and Star Destroyers being able to quickly devastate planets from orbit.

In a straight solo fight between an ISD and the Enterprise though? It'd be over before he realized he was in a fight.

In every single episode Picard always lets the bad guys get the first shot before ordering return fire. If Thrawn planned his attack carefully, he could devastate the Enterprise with the first volley.

An Imperial II-class Star Destroyer has 50 heavy turbolaser batteries, 50 heavy turbolaser cannons, 20 ion cannons, 48 TIE fighters, 12 TIE interceptors, and 12 TIE bombers.

Ion cannons are unaffected by shields and can disrupt computer systems, disable engines, and knock out controls. This weapon alone would give the Empire a decided advantage against Starfleet.

jiffdiff posted...

You're forgetting the most important part. The D has computer targeting and TIE fighters are practically standing still even when at full speed. Not 1 TIE fighter will get within 10,000km of the D.

Oh Also the D is several order of magnitudes faster at sublight.

Good luck taking out 5900 tie fighters with only two "lasers" using computer targeting.

Revelation34 posted...

Good luck taking out 5900 tie fighters with only two "lasers" using computer targeting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYirVh6ZWY

and keep in mind TIEs literally can't catch the Enterprise if it doesn't want to be caught, so it could be 10 trillion and the result would be the same.

captpackrat posted...

In every single episode Picard always lets the bad guys get the first shot before ordering return fire. If Thrawn planned his attack carefully, he could devastate the Enterprise with the first volley.

Fair, if this is the first time the Federation has ever met the Empire and they aren't in a state of war they might win simply because TV show Picard isn't guarded enough.

Though you should remember that the distances and speeds we see ship-to-ship combat in Star Trek are a conceit of film making for entertainment. In canon they're typically supposed to be 10s to 100s of thousands of kilometers apart when engaging as can be seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guo1ivcosVo where we they spell out the actual range/speed capabilities of starships in combat. This is orders of magnitude outside Star Wars engagement range. Thrawn would have to get practically nose to nose with the Enterprise without Picard being suspicious. A tall order when you consider Data would tell him that the ISD is covered in an obscene amount of extremely high yield weapons.

This one is too hard for me to judge given the tech. I have no idea what the benchmarks are like or how their technologies would interact.

Could the Enterprise beam a bomb onto a ISD? I'm not sure ISDs have the same safeguards as space fleet ships.

Nichtcrawler X posted...

One is a dedicated war vessel, commanded by a decorated veteran, the other is a diplomatic vessel commanded by a (at times pacifist) diplomat.

Feels like a rather unfair match-up.

This, damn trekkies just want to come up with some bs to feel like it's equal

It's like superman fans that think he could beat Batman

The Enterprise warp core can put out "12.75 billion gigawatts of power"

The ISD's powertrain's power in wattage isn't stated anywhere, but it makes use of a miniature sun so it's effectively a really small dyson sphere... similar to a Romulan warp core. (which uses a miniature black hole)

Muscles posted...

This, damn trekkies just want to come up with some bs to feel like it's equal

It's like superman fans that think he could beat Batman

ITP: Tech difference doesn't matter.

Alexander the Great would defeat a UN peacekeeping force in battle despite them having machine guns, helicopters and armored vehicles. I love Star Wars, but they're just outclassed here. And Starfleet can get really nasty in battle too. See: Dominion War.

Zeus posted...

Could the Enterprise beam a bomb onto a ISD? I'm not sure ISDs have the same safeguards as space fleet ships.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming this trick wouldn't work because ISDs have energy shielding. Obviously if transporters can beam through Star Wars shielding this is an even more lopsided fight.

The weakest part of a star destroyer are the deflector shields.

Revelation34 posted...

The weakest part of a star destroyer are the deflector shields.

Yes and no.

The thing that makes them 'weak' is how over-exposed they are. Which is important in a setting with small fighters all over the place that can just fly through the shields. But the Enterprise doesn't have that. At most it has a shuttle that might have a forward phaser (and is meant for transport anyways). Not to mention I said one of those got blown up with Wesley inside at the start of the battle.

I don't know if a torpedo could get past it (someone would need to look that up in the lore), but at least for phasers it should block them just fine and not have a major weakness. Least not from over-exposure.

a lot of people mistake the sensor globes for the shield generator... even the first couple Xwing games

Unbridled9 posted...

Yes and no.

The thing that makes them 'weak' is how over-exposed they are. Which is important in a setting with small fighters all over the place that can just fly through the shields. But the Enterprise doesn't have that. At most it has a shuttle that might have a forward phaser (and is meant for transport anyways). Not to mention I said one of those got blown up with Wesley inside at the start of the battle.

I don't know if a torpedo could get past it (someone would need to look that up in the lore), but at least for phasers it should block them just fine and not have a major weakness. Least not from over-exposure.

I just meant because of how easily damaged they are. The Enterprise wouldn't know that's the weak point and even then they would also have to follow through by blowing up the bridge.

Lokarin posted...

a lot of people mistake the sensor globes for the shield generator... even the first couple Xwing games

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/ISD-72x_deflector_shield_generator_dome

That's why I made my thread last year. I think I was watching Rogue One.

I think with no Force involved Star Trek wins 9/10 times. A much more disciplined crew and vastly greater tech.