Poll of the Day > Would you ever want a KEYLESS Door Lock to your HOUSE???

(+) Yeah! (+)

Technology has advanced these days and keyless door locks are becoming more popular now than you think...a lot of newer houses have just a passcode or both a passcode and traditional key but either way, passcodes could be the wave of the future for door locks..

Personally, i think this could be bad cause a) it could malfunction and b) you could easily forget and if you're running from a psycho killer, you're as good as toast.

Would you have doorlocks like these?

https://i.imgur.com/urw2x4H.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WujFB34.jpg
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I think it was the cold open for an episode of CSI. Someome lived in a house were everything was automated but it got hacked. The guy kept shouting to "initiate manual override" instead of opening any of the doors himself to escape.

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I've just bought a house and in preparation for taking possession I've purchased new doorknobs for each exterior door (if you can believe it, this was a cheaper option than hiring our local locksmith, he charges highway robbery prices).

I considered one of these for my exterior garage door but I opted against it. I wouldn't want one to gain direct entry to the house.

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Nah

If people are already hacking into baby monitors, it wont be long until they get into your door locking system via your home network

If you're considering one for yourself or maybe a loved one for a gift, make sure it stays off your main network that the majority of your devices are connected to

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My apartment forced keypad entry locks on us last year (as well as "smart" thermostats that can be changed remotely, but they assure me it will totes never be used to illegally initiate a constructive eviction on someone... and yes, we pay our own energy bills), I fucking hate it.

I don't want ANY "smart technology" in my home.
Trying to get a house now, that's been "fun". I tell any builders I don't want that shit, and if I buy a house that has such things, I'm tearing them out myself.

no

but to be fair i don't want a keyed entry, either

i want something better.

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Only? No. As another means of opening the door, then thats fine. But I wouldnt want the electronic ones that are like easily hackable or anything. I would like the one my friend has. I dont think its like a super hackable one, IIRC But either way, a key is fine for now I have to have my car keys, anyway. They are nice to have, though
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streamofthesky posted...

My apartment forced keypad entry locks on us last year (as well as "smart" thermostats that can be changed remotely, but they assure me it will totes <u>never</u> be used to illegally initiate a constructive eviction on someone... and yes, we pay our own energy bills), I fucking hate it.

I don't want ANY "smart technology" in my home.
Trying to get a house now, that's been "fun". I tell any builders I don't want that shit, and if I buy a house that has such things, I'm tearing them out myself.

I think I remember you talking about this before. Or it was someone with a very similar story
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LinkPizza posted...

I think I remember you talking about this before. Or it was someone with a very similar story

Yeah, I posted about it.
I did get them to at least install a latch (the U-shaped thing, I forget what they're called), so when we're home, there's an extra layer of security from the lock being hacked.
Still sucks and I've been trying to get out. Picked the absolute worst time to try and get a house...

Lol. Everyone is worried about these things being hacked, when in reality most smart locks are stupid easy to just bypass. They all seem to have at least one giant exploit in them. If you have some cash, buy some Bowley or Medeco locks.
If you're on a budget, get Quikset Smartkey locks. The can't be bumped or raked open. They can be picked, but it has to be done in a very unconventional way. You can re-key them super easy as well. Oh, and get some jam pins too, they're dirt cheap.

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Only if it was a code lock/key fob combo that generates a new code every 30 seconds or whatever.

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Ozmose posted...

If you're on a budget, get Quikset Smartkey locks. The can't be bumped or raked open. They can be picked, but it has to be done in a very unconventional way. You can re-key them super easy as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqsAFdFsQmQ

turns out it's really easy to pick lmao

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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I think it was the cold open for an episode of CSI. Someome lived in a house were everything was automated but it got hacked. The guy kept shouting to "initiate manual override" instead of opening any of the doors himself to escape.

Your house being controlled electronically doesn't mean it's all hooked up under 1 system that controls everything which is also connected online (because you wanted to be able to unlock your front door from the other side of the planet) so it can be remotely infiltrated and give access to everything at once. It can mean that, but it doesn't have to, and is unlikely to.

Also, something as basic as an electronic keypad like most people would have can't be remotely hacked anyway because it's too simple a device.

And it's not like lock picking or finding an alternative entrance aside from doors didn't exist before electronic locks.

I'm not saying electronic locks are better then traditional, but they aren't significantly worse either.

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helIy posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqsAFdFsQmQ

turns out it's really easy to pick lmao

He's one of the best lockpickers alive. He's going to make it look easy. Besides, I never said they were pick-proof. They just can't be attacked like a normal pin tumbler lock.

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streamofthesky posted...

My apartment forced keypad entry locks on us last year (as well as "smart" thermostats that can be changed remotely, but they assure me it will totes <u>never</u> be used to illegally initiate a constructive eviction on someone... and yes, we pay our own energy bills), I fucking hate it.

I don't want ANY "smart technology" in my home.
Trying to get a house now, that's been "fun". I tell any builders I don't want that shit, and if I buy a house that has such things, I'm tearing them out myself.

Oh I remember that thread. Forgot who it was that was actually defending the apartment complex.
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A considerable number of keypad/fingerprint/other "smart" locks don't even need to be hacked to open them. Quite a few make the fatal mistake of having the electronics that control the lock included in the outer part of it, which means a well-placed magnet will close the circuit and unlock the door several times faster than you could open it legitimately.

Ultimately, though, whether you're talking about hacking a smart lock, picking a traditional one, or bypassing the locks in another way, somebody who's determined to get through your door lock is going to be able to, regardless of what you put on there. Your house is also only ever going to be as secure as its weakest point. You can put the best lock on the planet on your door, and somebody will just throw a brick through your window and gain access in seconds if that's what they want. If you really want to secure your house, you've got to be a lot more thorough than just investing in a good lock (including investing in a good door).

streamofthesky posted...

as well as "smart" thermostats that can be changed remotely,

Do you know if those are operated wirelessly? If so, you could potentially defeat it by building a Faraday cage around the thermostat, which would be pretty easy to do. Even if it is a closed system, it wouldn't surprise me if you could find instructions out there for rewiring it such that the external controls don't work, possibly including shorting that access so they can't tell the difference.

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I have electronic cypher locks on the doors to my house. They aren't "smart", they have no network connection and each one has to be programmed individually. There are 10,000 possible codes and they will lock you out for 5 minutes if you enter a wrong code 3 times, so it's pretty secure against just trying to randomly guess numbers. The "brains" are on the inside, so there's not really anything to "hack" from the outside, it's just a keypad.

I don't worry about the battery running out because if one door stops working there are two others, the odds of all 3 failing at once are quite small, and even in that event there's a backup key lock.

Since the doors open with a PIN, they are designed to lock automatically so there's no worries about forgetting to lock up when you leave and you can never be locked out.

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Funny seeing people worry about smart locks like normal locks aren't easily pickable.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Funny seeing people worry about smart locks like normal locks aren't easily pickable.

My favourite is "you can buy the hardware and software needed to intercept and spoof bluetooth packets for $50" as if lockpicking sets aren't $20 and just as available.

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adjl posted...

My favourite is "you can buy the hardware and software needed to intercept and spoof bluetooth packets for $50" as if lockpicking sets aren't $20 and just as available.

Lockpicking sets would be impossible to use on a smart lock.
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Nope! Cameras are good enough. Even my pickup doesnt have power door locks. (Our other two vehicles do though and you still need a regular key for the ignition on one.)

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I have thought about it, because it is kind of convenient if you want somebody to watch your house or walk your dog while you are gone (you can give them temporary access at certain times). However, for the same reason I don't put smart cameras inside my house even though they are watching outside, I wouldn't get them. Too easy for someone to hack/override/whatever.

Maybe someday when the consumer technology isn't as new as it is currently, but for now I am good with just carrying a few keys with me.

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Dikitain posted...

I have thought about it, because it is kind of convenient if you want somebody to watch your house or walk your dog while you are gone (you can give them temporary access at certain times). However, for the same reason I don't put smart cameras inside my house even though they are watching outside, I wouldn't get them. Too easy for someone to hack/override/whatever.

Maybe someday when the consumer technology isn't as new as it is currently, but for now I am good with just carrying a few keys with me.

Only weirdos put camera's inside their house.
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Revelation34 posted...

Lockpicking sets would be impossible to use on a smart lock.

That actually varies by lock. Many of them do have a backup tumbler lock that can be picked. Many more have some sort of design flaw that allows them to be shimmed or otherwise defeated using tools that are often included in lockpicking sets, even if they can't be formally "picked." My point, though, wasn't that lockpicking sets can defeat smart locks, but that being concerned about smart locks' security because of how easy it is to acquire the tools to defeat them is silly, given how similarly easy it is to acquire the tools to defeat the traditional locks they currently trust.

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Revelation34 posted...

Only weirdos put camera's inside their house.

Eh, I can kind of see the point. Like doing it to monitor your pets or kids. Lots of daycares have cameras so parents can see what their kids are doing while they are at work.

But for security? Outside cameras are fine.

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I think the real issue here is 'does it actually make it more secure'? I mean, there's plenty of other ways someone can enter a house without using the door. Even if they have to go through it there's ways to enter that don't even deal with the lock at all (such as breaking the frame). While someone can pick a lock I'm sure it either won't be long or won't be too hard to learn how to use some software to do the same with a keypad. Worse, if I give my friend the keys to get into the house one day he can enter and leave and give me the keys back. But if he knows the code I have to either change all the codes after or accept that he can just come and go as he wishes. While he's my friend and all I don't feel that's a level of access I'm comfortable with. Finally what if I forget the code? I mean, sure, keys get lost all the time and nothing's saying I can't write it down somewhere (similar to a backup key) but, after all that, does it really make my door THAT much more secure? I feel like, at least with a keypad, there's too many weaknesses it shares with old-fashioned key doors to make it worthwhile.

I understand that if someone wants to get into your house, they will.

Even if they can't get in the door, they can smash a window if they need to.

But at least w/ a breaking and entering situation, or a lockpicking situation... they're making a scene or looking obviously suspicious (on the off chance someone else passes by and sees), and possibly leaving damage or tampering evidence behind.

With a smart lock, the obvious physical signs of illegal entry are no longer there, and it can be done remotely from far away. That's what bothers me....

I like the idea. There's a perception of it being less security, but honestly key locks probably aren't any better, and most break-ins don't rely on breaking a lock (you could smash the window by the lock, and unlock it from the inside). Granted, if the tech became more commonplace, maybe that would change.

Just because of power outages, I'd probably want one with a manual backup. Even if it operated on a separate battery, I'd still want the backup.

Otherwise, as for the issue of security, if your home has a garage, you're almost certainly relying on a keypad backup for your remote, so it's not like the technology isn't already there to some extent. (And even though you *should* have a separate lock between your garage and basement -- if it's not one structure -- it's not going to be a major hindrance because as soon as somebody is inside the building, they don't have to worry as much about being seen.)

mrduckbear posted...

Personally, i think this could be bad cause a) it could malfunction and b) you could easily forget and if you're running from a psycho killer, you're as good as toast.

You could also keep dropping your keys when being chased by a psycho killer. Or the psycho killer could steal your keys, make a copy, and just kill you in your house.

faramir77 posted...

I've just bought a house and in preparation for taking possession I've purchased new doorknobs for each exterior door (if you can believe it, this was a cheaper option than hiring our local locksmith, he charges highway robbery prices).

I imagine it'd generally be the case regardless because they need to buy stuff as well.

streamofthesky posted...

My apartment forced keypad entry locks on us last year (as well as "smart" thermostats that can be changed remotely, but they assure me it will totes never be used to illegally initiate a constructive eviction on someone... and yes, we pay our own energy bills), I fucking hate it.

I remember that, tbh. It's still bullshit.

JixHedgehog posted...

If people are already hacking into baby monitors, it wont be long until they get into your door locking system via your home network

As mentioned, anybody who has a garage is already vulnerable.

streamofthesky posted...

Still sucks and I've been trying to get out. Picked the absolute worst time to try and get a house...

But who could have predicted this shit, tbh?

Ozmose posted...

Lol. Everyone is worried about these things being hacked, when in reality most smart locks are stupid easy to just bypass. They all seem to have at least one giant exploit in them. If you have some cash, buy some Bowley or Medeco locks.
If you're on a budget, get Quikset Smartkey locks. The can't be bumped or raked open. They can be picked, but it has to be done in a very unconventional way. You can re-key them super easy as well. Oh, and get some jam pins too, they're dirt cheap.

All locks are easy to bypass, unless you have every window barred. And people put an insane amount of effort into protecting their front door while their garage and other areas are vulnerable.

adjl posted...

Ultimately, though, whether you're talking about hacking a smart lock, picking a traditional one, or bypassing the locks in another way, somebody who's determined to get through your door lock is going to be able to, regardless of what you put on there. Your house is also only ever going to be as secure as its weakest point. You can put the best lock on the planet on your door, and somebody will just throw a brick through your window and gain access in seconds if that's what they want. If you really want to secure your house, you've got to be a lot more thorough than just investing in a good lock (including investing in a good door).

adjl knows where it's at.

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Unbridled9 posted...

Finally what if I forget the code?

I don't think there should ever be a significant chance of forgetting the code you use every single time you enter your house. The obvious exception would be dementia or a similar pathological loss of memory, but that's a special enough situation that planning something as banal as your door lock around it is a little unreasonable. If you're using it that frequently, you should be able to remember it indefinitely.

Zeus posted...

You could also keep dropping your keys when being chased by a psycho killer. Or the psycho killer could steal your keys, make a copy, and just kill you in your house.

What if your house is the psycho killer, and by making it easier to get into your house in a hurry, you've just walked right into his trap?

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Keyless door locks have been around way longer then you think. I still remember the code to my late step-dad's house. The buttons weren't high tech or anything. It was kinda like a telephone. And no I don't think I'd want one. A regular lock is fine.

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adjl posted...

I don't think there should ever be a significant chance of forgetting the code you use every single time you enter your house. The obvious exception would be dementia or a similar pathological loss of memory, but that's a special enough situation that planning something as banal as your door lock around it is a little unreasonable. If you're using it that frequently, you should be able to remember it indefinitely.

Maybe they change it a lot
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adjl posted...

I don't think there should ever be a significant chance of forgetting the code you use every single time you enter your house. The obvious exception would be dementia or a similar pathological loss of memory, but that's a special enough situation that planning something as banal as your door lock around it is a little unreasonable. If you're using it that frequently, you should be able to remember it indefinitely.

I mean, people occasionally go cold turkey on these things. You ever sit down at your computer and totally space on the password?

Either way, it doesn't seem like it actually makes your door SAFER so much as it just changes the locking mechanism. There'd likely be a period of 4-5 or so years before thieves adjust (if they don't just go through the window instead) that you'd have improved security, but then it's back to the way it was before. Except arguably less secure because anyone you ever told the code to for whatever reason could remember it and get in.

Unbridled9 posted...

I mean, people occasionally go cold turkey on these things. You ever sit down at your computer and totally space on the password?

Then you'd just write it down and hide the answer somewhere. Maybe you could put it on the bottom of a flowerpot >_>

The odds of not having a key seem higher than losing the code altogether, particularly since you could just have a reminder on your phone, the digits somewhere in your car (since nobody is going to know what that means anyway), etc.

Or you could pick something that relates to numbers already somewhere else, like the first 4-8 digits on your driver's license.

adjl posted...

What if your house is the psycho killer, and by making it easier to get into your house in a hurry, you've just walked right into his trap?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mSVzGnKsXw

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Electronic systems have way too many vulnerabilities, and far more points of failure. Also a lot more difficult and expensive to repair. Unnecessary. Analog works just fine. Too many things are electronic and "smart" simply for the sake of it, like modern cars.

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Yes but ... If there is a solar flare at anytime, you won't be able to enter your own home. But eventually yes Id love to have one of those.

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Whargarble posted...

Electronic systems have way too many vulnerabilities, and far more points of failure. Also a lot more difficult and expensive to repair. Unnecessary. Analog works just fine. Too many things are electronic and "smart" simply for the sake of it, like modern cars.

There's a major convenience factory to it. And it's not like key locks don't have their own failures, which I've learned plenty of times over the years.

ganondorf77 posted...

Yes but ... If there is a solar flare at anytime, you won't be able to enter your own home. But eventually yes Id love to have one of those.

Assuming you only have one entrance to your home, that absurd hypothetical might be an issue. However, unless you're doing it strictly for perceived security, you'll have other entrances (unless you live in an apartment, I guess)

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Zeus posted...

you'll have other entrances

If you mean the backdoor, that's not always an option. Like out of the many houses I've live in, only one had the ability to unlocked and enter the house from the back. Most of the others had backdoors. But they weren't unlockable from outside. Even the one I'm in now isn't. I mean, it says it has a key, but my key doesn't work on it... So it's possible more people than you think would be stuck outside...
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ganondorf77 posted...

Yes but ... If there is a solar flare at anytime, you won't be able to enter your own home. But eventually yes Id love to have one of those.

You get one that has a key backup and hide the key in a really inconvenient and hard to get to location, like up on the roof. Get some weatherproof tape and tape the key to the underside of a frisbee, then get some construction adhesive and glue the frisbee to the roof so it looks like someone just threw it up there. Nobody would ever think of looking for a key there, especially if you've got kids.

There's plenty of other great places to hide keys. Bury it under a paving stone in the back yard, stick the key in a plastic bag and put it in a paint can full of paint in the shed, hide under the vinyl siding, in the gas BBQ grill, under the doghouse (especially if you have a big dog), nail it high up a tree on your neighbor's property, etc. Just don't put it anywhere even remotely close to the door.



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captpackrat posted...

You get one that has a key backup and hide the key in a really inconvenient and hard to get to location, like up on the roof. Get some weatherproof tape and tape the key to the underside of a frisbee, then get some construction adhesive and glue the frisbee to the roof so it looks like someone just threw it up there. Nobody would ever think of looking for a key there, especially if you've got kids.

There's plenty of other great places to hide keys. Bury it under a paving stone in the back yard, stick the key in a plastic bag and put it in a paint can full of paint in the shed, hide under the vinyl siding, in the gas BBQ grill, under the doghouse (especially if you have a big dog), nail it high up a tree on your neighbor's property, etc. Just don't put it anywhere even remotely close to the door.

Heh. I literally have an entire forest to hide the key in.

Unbridled9 posted...

Heh. I literally have an entire forest to hide the key in.

Bigfoot will steal it.
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LinkPizza posted...

If you mean the backdoor, that's not always an option. Like out of the many houses I've live in, only one had the ability to unlocked and enter the house from the back. Most of the others had backdoors. But they weren't unlockable from outside. Even the one I'm in now isn't. I mean, it says it has a key, but my key doesn't work on it... So it's possible more people than you think would be stuck outside...

I've never seen a house where the backdoor can't be unlocked from the back, but even if one existed, if it has a window, you can smash it and open it from the inside. However, you usually have a manual door near a garage door (and *most* houses seem to have garage doors)

Revelation34 posted...

Bigfoot will steal it.

And then you'll have bigfoot squatting your home, bigfoot raiding your fridge,, and bigfoot leaving a mess in your microwave (not to mention your bathroom...)

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Zeus posted...

I've never seen a house where the backdoor can't be unlocked from the back, but even if one existed, if it has a window, you can smash it and open it from the inside. However, you usually have a manual door near a garage door (and *most* houses seem to have garage doors)

Idk. Most back doors Ive seen in my life cant be unlocked from outside. Many were sliding doors, I think. And most houses with garages probably have garage doors. But if Im being honest again, I havent seen that many houses with people doors that lead from outside into the garage
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Revelation34 posted...

Bigfoot will steal it.

Mead doesn't live around me though.

what if the power is out?

LinkPizza posted...

Idk. Most back doors Ive seen in my life cant be unlocked from outside. Many were sliding doors, I think. And most houses with garages probably have garage doors. But if Im being honest again, I havent seen that many houses with people doors that lead from outside into the garage

Uhh...?

Other than when I was living in Florida, I'm not sure I've seen many sliding back doors (which were usually there to let out onto the pool deck), and even the ones with sliding back doors usually had a normal one, too.

fuzzyman posted...

what if the power is out?

Internal battery back-up, or it has a secondary manual key slot, or you have other doors with a manual key slot. Granted, if you have solar, the outage is going to be less of an issue.

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Zeus posted...

Uhh...?

Other than when I was living in Florida, I'm not sure I've seen many sliding back doors (which were usually there to let out onto the pool deck), and even the ones with sliding back doors usually had a normal one, too.

Maybe its an Easy Coast thing. Most of the houses where I lived had sliding doors. And barely any of the houses with sliding doors I saw had another back door. Most, if not all, only had the sliding door

Or possibly both sliding doors. At one house I lived in, we had two back doors. On one the first floor, and one to the basement (the house was like on a hill or whatever, so the back was much lower). The first floor sliding door led out to a deck, and the bottom one to the backyard
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My old place in California had a front door, a sliding glass door, and a door into the garage. The garage also had a door leading to the back yard.

My current place has two front doors, because it's actually two houses stuck together, and one back door.

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That wont freeze in -40?

Mechanical anything is almost always better than electronic trash. My transmission is fucky because the board is failing. If they just put manual trannys in everything, that wouldnt be an issue.

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LinkPizza posted...

Maybe its an Easy Coast thing

I mean, I've mostly lived throughout the East Coast, but I've lived in other parts of the US and other countries.

zebatov posted...

That wont freeze in -40?

Mechanical anything is almost always better than electronic trash. My transmission is fucky because the board is failing. If they just put manual [transmission] in everything, that wouldnt be an issue.

All I know is my remote unlocks my car every time, whereas my key wouldn't work during cold weather at times.

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