Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 381: Attack On Rittenhouse

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh God Wang giving his take on rules. Nam flashbacks.

(Unrelated to this)

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Mercs gave us all PTSD so I can't fault you on that.


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Kinglicious posted...

The misinformation is pretty horrible on this case, always was. If you just move on, you'll just hear more of it, like complaints about the judge being biased to Kyle. Guarantee you that spin is happening on this gun charge being dropped, as opposed to it being what the law says.

Just so were clear, if the law literally says Kyle carried his gun legally, that means that in Wisconsin, nunchucks and throwing stars are more illegal than long barrel rifles.

Wheres the sense in that?

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Yeah I have to say it's ridiculous for a law to say "any firearm" and then in a completely separate bit say "actually, 'any firearm' only means certain rifles and shotguns"

Like I get that that's the literal reading but what the fuck is going on there? Why would you put it like that if not to intentionally obfuscate the law?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Just so were clear, if the law literally says Kyle carried his gun legally, that means that in Wisconsin, nunchucks and throwing stars are more illegal than long barrel rifles.

Wheres the sense in that?

Concealable weapons tend to be punished harsher and have far tighter restrictions.

New York is actually similar on this, your state might be too. Brass or plastic knuckles too. Nunchucks are some of the dumbest laws I've seen.

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Kenri posted...

Yeah I have to say it's ridiculous for a law to say "any firearm" and then in a completely separate bit say "actually, 'any firearm' only means certain rifles and shotguns"

Like I get that that's the literal reading but what the fuck is going on there? Why would you put it like that if not to intentionally obfuscate the law?

Exactly.

Or to say All weapons, including sticks and stones are illegal to possess, except for certain rifles and shotguns, where theyre totally legal except these specific stipulations.

Its a bad law.

I would not be surprised if other, lets sayless lucky defendants, have found themselves on the opposite side of this ruling.


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Wheres the sense in that?

Sense in our laws? There aren't any. They're written that way on purpose, so they can only applied differently to different classes of people.

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I don't know how well I can summarize the closing arguments today. Prosecutor Binger is lying about so many things, making so many gross arguments, and outright lying about the law and he intends to talk to 2.5 hours. I'll try my best though but it's just so much, I'm bound to miss some stuff.

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I'm still stunned he said he needs that much time.

I don't understand this tactic of pissing off the jury to a point that they utterly despise you.


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https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/14/biden-successor-2024-kamala-harris-522160

https://twitter.com/presssec/status/1460070063025831936?s=21

The vibes at the office of the Vice President arenot good.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Oof. I hope hes ok once the acquittal happens. The communists are already organizing their riots.

Thanks. Just got the word that he finished the job he was on and is on his way out of Kenosha. If the shit hits the fan, he'll at least be clear.

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Hey anything is an upgrade over the last POTUS/VP relationship

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Oh God Wang giving his take on rules. Nam flashbacks.

(Unrelated to this)

XD

Kinglicious posted... Mercs gave us all PTSD so I can't fault you on that.

Hear hear.

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Is it possible for us to have a verdict today?

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Binger throwing Kraus to the wolves. lmao

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In case anyone is interested, I did the research on why/how that gun possession law is so terrible.

The original law was that 16-17 year olds could carry guns while under supervision, or while hunting. In 1991, during National gang violence panic, the governor signed a bill that added the short barrel part to it, with the purpose being to prevent the propagation of sawed off weapons. The side effect was that it made the law confusing and now the entire thing relies on that addendum.

Funny side note thats gonna make biscuit mad: The Judge literally said he thinks its a poorly written law and used the words I can interpret it the way the defense put forth, and said the law itself needed to be appealed.

So lol to that whole argument.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Binger throwing Kraus to the wolves. lmao

Maybe he should pick up the gun and aim it at Kraus with his finger on the trigger. I mean he did it to the audience already what's one more go.

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Also I swear to God the one thing the prosecution has insisted on more than anything else is that manlets are just inferior humans.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Is it true 500 national guard are already there? I know this was announced, but announcements are often different than whats actually on the ground.

He didnt say anything about that on his way out. I actually live about 2 hours away from there.

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Kinglicious posted...

Mercs gave us all PTSD

finally, common ground in the politics topic

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Kyle Rittenhouse Trial Closing Arguments are done.

I said this before but there was just so much packed in these, I can't pack this with a really detailed summary. I'll try though.

First things first, the gun possession charge was dropped because he never violated it in the first place. The Judge gave the Prosecution one last chance to prove he was in violation and said "The only thing I think is pertinent at this point is the barrel length. What was it?" And Kraus, the other Prosecutor with so much dismay in his voice said the length of the barrel and the Judge said, "Alright, well I'm dropping that charge then."

The Judge also ruled that the reckless endangerment charge for the first shooting would be specifically if Richie McGinnis, the reporter who witnessed it, was in danger. It's pretty clear he wasn't.

The Judge also decided, despite saying he was likely to allow the blurry ass photos to be considered for provocation, to specifically tell the jury they wouldn't be any longer. Fair because they were bullshit and everyone alive knew it.

Binger did the Prosecution's closing argument. I said it before, but it was filled with insanity, misrepresentation of facts, and outright lying about the law. This could have been objected to many times because he made assertions that were not in evidence or testimony at all.

Particularly wild things that happened was that Binger claimed that Kyle definitively raised his gun, and that was what instigated everything. And that he was CHASING Rosenbaum. And that their evidence had proven that. What evidence?

He also claimed that there was no way that Kyle should have been afraid of Rosenbaum because he was a MANLET. This fucking guy just trashed him as a harmless idiot tiny person the whole time and said Kyle was taller than him, so why was he afraid? Hilariously, he also said "When an unarmed man attacks you, you should fight him hand to hand in combat." And he showed a picture from fucking Road House. Comedy gold. And he said that you lose the right to self-defense if you have a gun. Absolute lie. Completely. He's a piece of shit. This is what he's reduced to--misrepresenting the actual law to a jury. There was so much of this spent saying KYLE IS A COWARD FOR NOT FIGHTING HIM IN HAND TO HAND COMBAT.

Other insanity involved him saying he should have just submitted to the mob and let them turn him in rather than run away from them, and that he lied to them because he's just a dishonest person. And that he was an active shooter, and that's why mob justice was enacted, and that he can't just shoot whoever he wants because he had initially fired and lost his right to self-defense if anyone else attacked him. Again, a clear lie.

And his telling of the second shooting was, frankly, madness. He says that all someone did was knock his hat off (when they had a rock in their hand and smacked them in the head) and that was no reason for him to fear for his life. And that all of these people were just trying to disarm him, an active shooter, and they were just as afraid! That they were all unarmed (except for the skateboard, someone's Timbs in his face, and a pistol) and that he wasn't allowed to just shoot Huber when he was smashing him in the head and neck with his skateboard. And that Gaige Grosskreutz wasn't moving to shoot him in the head, he was just trying to evade him (literal video of him admitting to him only being shot when he has his gun aimed at his head), and that his gun was only aimed at his head because his arm was blown off and that this is how muscles work when they are blown to bits! No medical expert testified.

And he continually lied about Kyle having all the time in the world to de-escalate every situation, when it's been established literal seconds were involved. He even lied outright about Rosenbaum not reaching for his gun, and that Kyle callously continued to fire at him even though he MUST have known he was dead, even though it was .5 seconds between all four shots.

He said "The Defense wants you to believe Mr. Rosenbaum deserves to die because he was setting a couple fires, destroying property here and there, and yelling naughty words." And then he scoffed and rolled his eyes. SAY THE NAUGHTY WORD THEN IF IT'S NO BIG DEAL BINGER.

He also said "And Kyle did all these things like helping people who were hurt, offering medical assistance, and then putting out fires. Whoohoo! This doesn't discount that he KILLED people."

I will give Binger credit that while his Closing Argument was based in no reality, completely lied about many, many facts of the case, and outright lied about the law, he was very convincing and displayed his bullshit case well... until he went fully unhinged in the second half trying to rehabilitate Rosenbaum and present him as a poor victim when it was clear that he was a terrible, violent person all night. And the jury also knows a lot of things he said were outright lies as well, so it's... I dunno, very performative. It's like he's gaslighting the jury into believing things that did not happen.

The Defense with Richards came after this. I have been pretty critical about Richards throughout this case, and I think he's been weak on Defense. This man must have been meditating when everyone thought he was asleep because he unleashed his final form today.

He came out immediately and pointed out that the Prosecution was lying by presenting a picture of Rosenbaum having a chain weapon, which they claimed he never had. And he said they've been lying to them the whole time and that they know it, but he'll show it right now. Binger objected and the Judge immediately overruled it. lol He said that this is not something to play fast and loose with the facts and acting like Rosenbaum was a good man.

The rest of the Closing Statement from the Defense was just completely dumpstering the Prosecution. He said the owners of the car lot were fucking liars and pointed out they couldn't tell the truth for fear of being sued and that they had five people claim they were liars. And he pointed out that Kyle was asked to be there, his dad lived there, he works there, and then reminding them just how close Kenosha was to where Kyle lives, relating it to where he lives "as a far away place".

He also pointed out provocation was never brought up a single time before this, because their case blew the fuck up and this was all they had left, and that nothing in their opening statement was true. And he also pointed out that if they wanted to prove he was provoking anything, they could have brought the Zaminski's (the people hanging out with Rosenbaum all night) and then had them testify, but they know there's no truth to it. And then they said they brought out a "HOCUS POCUS OUT OF FOCUS" picture to try to prove provocation, and that is literally the only piece of evidence he provoked anything that night, saying that their doofus spent 20 hours manipulating the picture until he could get something that looked like it, and then showed the jury how it's impossible because he'd be holding it left handed and if he fired then it would have recoiled something or other into his face (I don't know guns).

From there, he went through each charge and tore them apart. And then he went through all of the witnesses and talked about how each of them helped THEM.

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Worth mentioning is that he escaped "unmolested" by Rosenbaum which was a nice way to let the jurors who knew he was a violent pedophile remember that. He said the Prosecution was sounding like he was a whiner about the facts. He also reinforced that Rosenbaum had lunged at him, bringing out a ruler, and standing in front of the jury 4 feet, which is how close Rosenbaum was before being shot. He laughed at Binger claiming that they only tried to knock his hat off, not that they were attacking him with a rock. He said that he was not an active shooter, because it was something that the Prosecution made up. He wasn't actively shooting. He was trying to get away before he was attacked again.

He also pointed out that Grosskreutz is a fucking liar and lied repeatedly on the stand and showed them, and pointed out that he has a $10 million lawsuit at stake, and that he was working in tandem with the police because they refused to look through his phone, pointing out that one of the officers said they have never NOT looked in someone's phone in a situation like this.

He brought up DeBruin again, the guy with autism and a speech impediment, and Binger's face immediately got alarmed. He pointed out how they were trying to manipulate him into changing his statement and Binger's eye was LITERALLY TWITCHING.

Basically, if the Prosecution had any credibility left, he demolished it in full. But if you thought it was over then, oh no. The Prosecution gets a Rebuttal!

And Binger is too much of a chicken shit loser to go back up there and defend his corruption, no. He has Kraus go up there because he knows the case is completely shot. This dude sounded SO FUCKING ANGRY AND BITTER and like he was attacking the Jury and most of it was spent trying to defend his department. If you had any takeaway from this, it was that he was fucking livid that the Defense just blew up their argument and credibility so bad. Just complete nonsense.

One of the sticking points was him basically calling Kyle a total COWARD for not fighting Rosenbaum, and saying "Oh, he's so scared of this little man, and instead of fighting him honorably, he shot him dead!" Like mocking Kyle for having to shoot this 30 year old violent pedophile. When a fucking toddler could beat the shit out of this Kraus loser.

There was also a lot of defense for Rosenbaum again which was... bizarre and included him saying "Well, they attack him for covering his face, but you guys know there's the Covid threat, right!? There were lots of people covering their faces!" Absolutely bizarre. He sounded like a raving mad man up there, spitting out arguments on a little checklist he had and sounding like the biggest jackass you've ever seen. Unhinged behavior.

The most damning thing was him trying to bring up that they couldn't bring up the Zaminski's! Because they were protected by their 5th Amendment! The Judge immediately calls the jury out and says that they can't bring up the 5th Amendment and that they were already over this. Kraus and Binger argue "Well, they have impending cases coming up!" "Well why didn't you call Mrs. Zaminiski? Her case is over." "Well why didn't the Defense!?" "Because it was your witness to call. We can't call her." They keep arguing and digging themselves deeper until they say that Mr. Zaminski's trial is being repeatedly post-poned... by the State. HMMMM! I WONDER WHY! Is it potentially so they couldn't have him violate his 5th Amendment rights and have an excuse not to bring on a witness who would destroy their case entirely?

So the Judge says just tread carefully now. So he calls back the Jury and tells them about 5th Amendment. Please disregard that. And so Kraus immediately says, shit you not, "So the 5th Amendment rules apply to Mr. Zaminski and..." The Judge looks exasperated and then asks the jury to go back again. They were out there for no more than 30 seconds total. And this fucking idiot Kraus has to be told to just get away from that point already.

The jury hates this man. They hate him so much. If it wasn't because of his conduct being so shitty, if it wasn't because he bullied an autistic man on the stand, if it wasn't because he was literally just screaming at them because he was so upset, it was because the Judge had to dismiss them, and then he fucked up again so quickly after and made them all settle and come out, and then he had to dismiss them again. And then he's STILL attacking the autistic man and claiming he was just too confused and couldn't understand the situation. Unbelievable.

This is the worst way this could have ended for the Prosecution. The Jury cannot believe a thing they said. Everything should be dismissed. This never should have gone to trial. And the Prosecution is scum. Defense nailed it super hard today. I find it difficult that the jury doesn't find Kyle guilty, and they're completely right to find him not guilty on all charges.

I am almost free. I can't pretend I got everything notable from these closing arguments, but I tried. Too much to remember and consume.

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I'll help with the funny parts and clips. Like when this happened.



From the front in a better picture.


Finger on the trigger.
In a self defense case.

I'll find a clip later on the fighting a manlets stuff but this is like the third and fourth time they've basically gone "he's 5'3" so he's harmless" basically. I'm 5'2" with shoes so I am apparently more harmless than a child. But among my favorite parts were all the things Kyle could've done.

He's taller and a swimmer so he's in some kind of shape. He could've hit Rosenbaum in the testicles or even with the gun. He's a coward for not going hand to hand with a guy six inches shorter than him. And besides, everybody takes a beating sometimes.

All those statements were said. Including the beating. But point is manlets aren't adults and possibly not even people, the same way a handgun is a pitiful useless weapon when you've got an AR-15.

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Oh yeah, the other awful thing Binger did was go "Yeah and Balch testified that all Rosenbaum did was go 'If I get you alone, blah blah blah.'" when the blah blah blah part was "I'll fucking kill you." Grotesque stuff.

Kraus literally saying "Everyone needs to take a beating sometime!" And then acting like Kyle should have just taken a healthy beating from the mob when he was getting his face, neck, and head assaulted. And then immediately saying "He wasn't in imminent threat of serious harm!" Like mother fucker he took a skateboard to his got damn neck. And then he said the same thing about a pistol being aimed at his head.

Legitimately unhinged and no jury alive would listen to that and go "Yeah I guess that wasn't imminently dangerous."

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home. realized that the first pic sucks because too blurry, fixing that. also zoomed out version of the second.




still stunned that he actually did that in court considering... well, the most basic of basic rules of gun safety is finger off the trigger. now for clips... the annoying part really is that the vast majority of good clips are right wing sources. maybe there's better ones that can be found but searching on twitter with basic key words ends up constantly being 'right wing, right wing, right wing,' there's nothing here beyond that except for maybe some guys in the center. i'm saying that because this clip has Binger talk about Rosenbaum in a weird defense and then basically uses the manlet argument and i couldn't find someone else who posted the full thing, it's not broken up.

https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1460335319195303939

Kraus i'm looking for clips of, maybe it's too soon. or maybe i'll just have to make them myself, his manlet argument and his "everybody takes a beating sometime" line is just perfection. found this but it's not what i want.
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1460385796951879681

but okay, definitely the zinger of the night that you know the defense was waiting on:
https://twitter.com/townhallcom/status/1460347173690916872


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John Oliver had a good segment on Union Busting on Last Week Tonight.

Companies get away with way too much when it comes to union busting. Even if they're caught, they face little to no repercussions. And they can find ways to fire pro-union workers for merely talking about things like "Living Wage" which is apparently a dirty word in the corporate world.

People should be LIVID about it, but they're too distracted by everything else to care. Especially if it doesn't happen to effect them.

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Imagine being in the jury listening to this and being expected to decide whether or not a kid deserves to spend most of his life in prison after hearing this.

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1460385796951879681?s=20

https://twitter.com/crabcrawler1/status/1460400562176987145?s=20

https://twitter.com/crabcrawler1/status/1460402703457263619?s=20

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Jury did not come to a decision yet in the Rittenhouse trial.

But as a bit of news, Prosecutor Binger is claiming that it would be "inappropriate" for him to make a statement after the trial. Which basically means he doesn't feel too good about it, since Prosecutors always go up there to speak after.

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Dancedreamer posted...

John Oliver had a good segment on Union Busting on Last Week Tonight.

Companies get away with way too much when it comes to union busting. Even if they're caught, they face little to no repercussions. And they can find ways to fire pro-union workers for merely talking about things like "Living Wage" which is apparently a dirty word in the corporate world.

People should be LIVID about it, but they're too distracted by everything else to care. Especially if it doesn't happen to effect them.

I havent watched this yet, but I on a related topic, I work for a car dealer group, and a while ago a younger kid at one of the shops got fired because he asked about a union (naively not knowing the consequences) and got sacked the same day.

Crazy stuff.


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I think I've mentioned it a few times but years ago when the local Wal-Mart(Which at the time was relatively new) caught sniff of people mentioning union, they mysteriously came down with what they called a "leaky pipe in the bathroom" that needed the whole store to close. For a year and a half or so. Which also required laying off basically all of their employees and starting anew.

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So the same parents groups fighting against CRT now want mental health and suicide prevention programs taken out of schools as well, because they insist they are just a "trojan horse" way of teaching CRT.

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StealThisSheen posted...

So the same parents groups fighting against CRT now want mental health and suicide prevention programs taken out of schools as well, because they insist they are just a "trojan horse" way of teaching CRT.

source so I can weep?

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A quick google found this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/parents-protesting-critical-race-theory-identify-new-target-mental-hea-rcna4991

Yeah, these parents are the worst and shouldn't be allowed to be parents.

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Weird, I wonder why conservatives are against their children being taught empathy.

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So uh there's a big update in the Rittenhouse case.

In a new Motion for Mistrial filed by the Defendant, there were the various things I had mentioned that the Prosecution had violated. The 5th Amendment violation (4 times), purposefully disregarding the Judge's rulings, tampering with the investigation, tampering with who could testify in court. But there's a big one added now.

I thought it was weird when Prosecutor Kraus had mentioned "We actually have a much better quality video here!" during the random spazzing over the blurry photos. And the Judge was even like "Then why aren't I looking at the better quality ones!?" I thought it was bullshit and they didn't have a better quality.

Turns out, the Prosecution did have a better quality video of the drone footage. Significantly better. And they withheld it and gave it to the Defendants AFTER the trial was over.

There's a law called the Brady Rule. This is when the Prosecutor is not allowed to withhold evidence that will help alleviate the Defendant's guilt. It's meant to put the scale back in the favor of the Defendant since, well, the scale is very uneven. And to do this is a SERIOUS violation. That other stuff I mentioned? Not even close. This is grounds for being disbarred, legitimately. And Wisconsin treats it much more seriously than others.

How seriously? This trial is a mistrial--definitively. Without question. So when Binger is busy putting out press releases saying he won't do press releases and the Defense was all laughs in the courtroom before the jury was dismissed... this is why. If Kyle somehow loses his case, he gets an appeal, no matter what. This is that serious. They withheld key evidence (considering they made their ENTIRE provocation claim based on it). The Judge is more likely to see if the Jury will say not guilty on all counts so he can avoid this and say the system works, but I'm thinking he's calling it a mistrial if it's anything but a complete non-guilty verdict.

The Prosecution absolutely fucked up here in their complete desperation. They thought they wouldn't get caught playing these games, but Kraus' big, stupid mouth couldn't keep shut about it because he can't handle a shred of pressure. So it doesn't really matter what the Jury says, Kyle is getting off. This never should have gone to trial. The Prosecution is beyond corrupt.

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Okay, that's awful, but why did they even give over the evidence at all? At that point just hide it forever lol

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KamikazePotato posted...

Okay, that's awful, but why did they even give over the evidence at all? At that point just hide it forever lol

That much, I'm not sure. It could be the Judge had demanded they turned it over, the Defense had circumvented the Prosecution to get it when they knew it existed, or the Prosecution knew they let the cat out of the bag and were just trying to present it so they can at least say "See we still gave it to them!" I have no idea.

But you want to know the difference between it? The Prosecution gave them a 480 x 212 video of the drone footage. They had a 1920 x 844 size video of it. It was THAT vastly different. They likely didn't even act like it existed until the nth hour because a) they knew it would show Kyle didn't ever hold the gun up to him and b) the Defense's video expert could have dissected it entirely and presented it in trial.

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Geez and here I thought that those Dhar Mann trial videos (with the cliched obsessed prosecutor withholding evidence) were unrealistic...
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Yeah, that's super not good. 100% grounds for a mistrial or, not that it seems at all likely at this point, a conviction being overturned on appeal. That's basically the classic example. Honestly, my eyebrows were raised significantly in Biscuit's initial telling of that situation as an avenue to appeal but yeah.

KamikazePotato posted...

Okay, that's awful, but why did they even give over the evidence at all? At that point just hide it forever lol

idk but if I had to guess they realized they blew it when they said they had a better video in said incident and went into CYA mode here.

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Kenri posted...

Weird, I wonder why conservatives are against their children being taught empathy.

Because they think empathy makes people weak.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

The Prosecution absolutely fucked up here in their complete desperation. They thought they wouldn't get caught playing these games, but Kraus' big, stupid mouth couldn't keep shut about it because he can't handle a shred of pressure.

Are you rooting for judicial malpractice because it doesnt fit the narrative?


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masterplum posted...

Are you rooting for judicial malpractice because it doesnt fit the narrative?

No, I've been disgusted by their games to unfairly run this entire trial from the investigation process onward. I'm glad their lies have caught up to them and that the system will now be working to keep them in check. I've said this should have been a mistrial days ago because of what they've done. This makes it unavoidable now, no matter how high profile this case is.

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xp1337 posted...

idk but if I had to guess they realized they blew it when they said they had a better video in said incident and went into CYA mode here.

Oh and I figured this out. It was in the motion.

One of the Defense's attorneys reached out to the DA's office and specifically had to ask for that high quality video.

Binger and Kraus can and should be disbarred for this, because honestly why would you want these two trying to do this sort of thing to convict someone in any case. However they'll probably just go "Oh we gave you the wrong video by mistake!" Even though Kraus admitted to knowing they had the worse video. And then why does such a low quality video even exist aside from making it this impossible to watch for the Defense?

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My guess is that when you blow up the 212p vid it shows something different from the 844p one. Alternatively/similarly, it ends up having the defense make arguments on one shittier, absolutely incompressible vid for something that looks massively different. It's a difference of 16 times the amount of pixels being filled in, it's 90s Realplayer to HD levels. Just nothing alike.

But I don't get the scaling difference. 1920 to 480, sure. But how do you get 844 to 212? It should be 848 from 212 upscaling, 211 if compressing. It's minor yeah but confusing. Is that a typo, Windows saying it wrong, or was the compression that shitty? The most malicious answer is something was changed before shrinking it but 4 pixels seems too much for that. Then again a mix of incompetence and malice has been the MO of this prosection so I don't fucking know.

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https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1461013372225343496?s=21

The QAnon Shaman got 41 months in prison, the most of any January 6er to date.

I dont feel good about this tbh, the dude broke the law and believes awful shit, but thats a long fucking time for what amounts to trespassing.

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Yeah, most of these people need to be sentenced to perform community service, not locked up. Same as most criminals.

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