Poll of the Day > Alex Baldwin shot and killed someone

(+) Yeah! (+)

adjl posted...

Something can both be an accident and be blamed on somebody. If you have a responsibility to prevent certain mistakes from happening, allowing them to happen is negligent.

Yeah it can only be blamed on the prop manager as the CNN link you ignored showed.
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Rev trying to argue with adjl.

This is going to be enjoyable.

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Zareth posted...

How the fuck could this happen again after Brandon Lee?

And Jon-Erik Hexum, who was playing Russian Roulette with a prop gun and shot himself in the head with a blank.

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Sarcasthma posted...

Rev trying to argue with adjl.

This is going to be enjoyable.

rev is probably the smartest person on this board

his brain is MASSIVE, havent you read his posts?

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Revelation34 posted...

Yeah it can only be blamed on the prop manager as the CNN link you ignored showed.

If we assume that:

• The CNN link tells the entire story (a very risky assumption for any news report
• There was a second armourer that also verified the gun was cold before passing it on to Baldwin
• No corners were cut in examining the prop manager's qualifications before hiring her

And probably other assumptions, though I can't think of any off-hand. Leaving out either of those latter two points could amount to negligence on the part of one or more executives for the film, which could include Baldwin. It may also end up not including him, if those decisions were made entirely by other executives or some level of middle manager. I did not in any way ignore your link, I just recognized that it's nothing close to a conclusive exoneration. I encourage you to do the same. The armourer named in it is likely to end up being the one most immediately responsible for this, but the investigation will have to pan out in order to determine the full extent of everyone's culpability.

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Revelation34 posted...

I wonder how close they are to airing it.

No clue, they aren't done filming until late January. I would imagine they have the first few episodes done, but maybe they are holding until all are ready.

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adjl posted...

No corners were cut in examining the prop manager's qualifications before hiring her

There were, I am sad to report. The person was from the union overflow list, and seems to have lacked any real experience or qualifications (person is like 20 I think, not that age is a deal breaker, but...).

The fact that it was a live round is absolutely nuts. There should NEVER be live rounds on a film set.

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i have no idea if this is real or not but holy shit if it is

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

i have no idea if this is real or not but holy shit if it is

Still wouldn't necessarily be his fault even if it was true. That's a mild joke to make followed by a bargaining plea made under the stress of shock.

Since this happened, from what I can see online, the far right has a hate boner for Alec Baldwin after he made fun of their supreme Amerikafhrer, and this is their chance to try to blame something on him. I don't particularly care for Alec Baldwin but it's tough to see how this possibly could be his fault unless he was in charge of weapons on set (which we already know that he wasn't).

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

rev is probably the smartest person on this board

his brain is MASSIVE, havent you read his posts?

He knows all the best dictionary definitions.

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faramir77 posted...

Still wouldn't necessarily be his fault even if it was true. That's a mild joke to make followed by a bargaining plea made under the stress of shock.

Since this happened, from what I can see online, the far right has a hate boner for Alec Baldwin after he made fun of their supreme Amerikafhrer, and this is their chance to try to blame something on him. I don't particularly care for Alec Baldwin but it's tough to see how this possibly could be his fault unless he was in charge of weapons on set (which we already know that he wasn't).

it is very weird. theyre making Alec Baldwin this strawman for everyone they disagree with lol


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Sarcasthma posted...

He knows all the best dictionary definitions.

Hes wrong so often yet Ive never once see him concede a point

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Jen0125 posted...

apparently they weren't shooting. they were doing an unfilmed dress rehearsal between scenes. there was 1 live round and 1 bullet shot through both people.

Someone was shooting

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

i have no idea if this is real or not but holy shit if it is

hard to know what about the story is true because a lot of people are making shit up and spreading it around like its facts

its a whole internet of well I heard

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

i have no idea if this is real or not but holy shit if it is

What an oddly specific thing to say. Sounds 100% fake.

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CyborgSage00x0 posted...

There were, I am sad to report. The person was from the union overflow list, and seems to have lacked any real experience or qualifications (person is like 20 I think, not that age is a deal breaker, but...).

Which doesn't surprise me, hence I brought it up as an assumption we shouldn't be making.

That said, I wouldn't think you'd need much by way of experience or qualifications to know not to bring live ammo onto a set. As much as I hate to armchair armourer (... armchairourer?), that seems like extremely basic common sense.

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As I said earlier, the armourer on set was both inexperiences and currently is dodging a workers strike... for safety, ironically.

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Isn't it funny how people are quick to blame CEOs and top management for unsafe working conditions over blaming some middle manager, but when it's a famous actor leading the production it's someone else's fault?

If he were properly trained in firearms this wouldn't have happened.

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Dr_Wi1y posted...

Isn't it funny how people are quick to blame CEOs and top management for unsafe working conditions over blaming some middle manager, but when it's a famous actor leading the production it's someone else's fault?

If he were properly trained in firearms this wouldn't have happened.

He's on a movie set and was told the gun was safe. There was absolutely no reason for the prop master to put a live round in the gun then tell the director it's safe.

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Dr_Wi1y posted...

If he were properly trained in firearms this wouldn't have happened.

you literally dont know the details of what transpired, nobody does yet

so shut up

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FatalAccident posted...

Sage I thought you worked in a hospital? Or is all this coming from friends you know who work in film

Nah, in the film biz.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

i have no idea if this is real or not but holy shit if it is

First I've heard of it, but the picture used is old, from somewhere else, so already kinda questionable.

That said, I wouldn't think you'd need much by way of experience or qualifications to know not to bring live ammo onto a set. As much as I hate to armchair armourer (... armchairourer?), that seems like extremely basic common sense.

Correct, live rounds should never be on a film set. There's just no reason for it, when blanks and other methods can convey gunshots easily. We had lots of guns on my recent shoot, but they were all fake, and BB guns in many cases, so we didn't even employ an armorer (amorers are only used really when the film in question uses antique guns, or is extremely gun heavy/war movies).

In this case, apparently the armorer in question appeared on a podcast a month ago, where she admitted she didn't feel quite ready for the show yet, as it was only her second time doing it. THAT said, she's also the daughter of a legendary armorer/quick-draw champion Thell Reed, who helped train her, so I find it very unlikely she would make such a rookie mistake as having live ammo on the set. I'm more willing to put my money on the Props Master.

Again, tho, when guns are on set, fake, real, toys, etc., there's supposed to be a whole process. Safety memos about guns are emailed out, the safety meeting in the morning should discuss guns. Even then, you're not supposed to just trust the Prop Master/armorer on their words when it comes to guns. They should demonstrate to the 1st AD, if not the entire crew, that the gun is fake/unloaded. Loading of blanks should even be witnessed by other Crew members. And you are also told to NEVER point a gun, even a known fake one, at someone on set - you aim off the person (well over their should or off to their side), and cheat the camera. Which is why Baldwin could be culpable still, since it sounds like he didn't do this. And finally, the person using the gun should inspect it themselves.

Basically, there's supposed to be numerous layers to gun safety on set that should make what happened impossible. This is beyond even just one person. And as with the Sarah Jones case, multiple people should be in jail for this likely, including the Producers and 1st AD. The most damning fact is that the camera Crew resigned the night before, in part naming numerous gun misfires on set, and poor gun safety observed. This was less an "accident" and more of an on-going issue.

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papercup posted...

He's on a movie set and was told the gun was safe. There was absolutely no reason for the prop master to put a live round in the gun then tell the director it's safe.

gun safety rule #1 is check yourself no matter what you're told. the person telling him it's fine is at fault, and he's at fault. under correct conditions everyone who is handed a gun inspects & tests it themselves before using it

you can't put all the fault on one person but you can't rid anyone of fault completely either. everyone involved with getting him the gun, and him, are at fault because there should have been plenty of safety checks along the way including when he had it in his hands

the fact there was a walkout over poor conditions & poor safety kinda adds to the fact that everyone involved was being unsafe b/c the people who cared enough about safety already left

Mead posted...

you literally dont know the details of what transpired, nobody does yet

so shut up

Telling me to shut up? Check your mental health sir/ma'am.

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Could be purposeful sabotage by the strikers as well, I mean, how the heck does a live round get on set by accident?

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Dr_Wi1y posted...

Telling me to shut up? Check your mental health sir/ma'am.

its doing the same weird shit it always does

but it also agreed about telling you to shut up

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wolfy42 posted...

how the heck does a live round get on set by accident?

In the case of Brandon Lee, they first loaded the gun with dummy rounds that were improvised from live cartridges from which the powder was removed. This was for a scene with a closeup of the revolver so it would look like it was loaded with normal ammo. The cartridges still contained their primer, however, and at some point the gun was fired, causing a bullet to move partway down the barrel, something known as a squib load.

During the fatal scene, the dummy cartridges were replaced with blanks, which contained primer and powder but no bullet. Because the barrel wasn't checked and cleared, when the blank was fired it propelled the squib out of the barrel with nearly the same force as a live bullet. The bullet struck Lee in the abdomen and he died a few hours later.

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I saw this a day or two ago It may be too soon, but whatever

https://i.imgur.com/J7XrntN.jpg
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I sent it to my wife and she literally shot back with a too soon lol

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wolfy42 posted...

I get shooting someone with a prop gun and killing them by accident, but how do you shoot a SECOND person with the same gun afterwards?

It was a single shot. The gun was only fired once. The bullet went through the chest of the first person and hit the person standing behind her in the shoulder.

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adjl posted...

If we assume that:
* The CNN link tells the entire story (a very risky assumption for any news report
* There was a second armourer that also verified the gun was cold before passing it on to Baldwin
* No corners were cut in examining the prop manager's qualifications before hiring her
And probably other assumptions, though I can't think of any off-hand. Leaving out either of those latter two points could amount to negligence on the part of one or more executives for the film, which could include Baldwin. It may also end up not including him, if those decisions were made entirely by other executives or some level of middle manager. I did not in any way ignore your link, I just recognized that it's nothing close to a conclusive exoneration. I encourage you to do the same. The armourer named in it is likely to end up being the one most immediately responsible for this, but the investigation will have to pan out in order to determine the full extent of everyone's culpability.

I misread it originally. He grabbed a random gun off a table without confirming if it was ready to be used or not. It is the assistant's fault.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

i have no idea if this is real or not but holy shit if it is

They purposely cut off whoever posted it. Completely made up.

adjl posted...

Which doesn't surprise me, hence I brought it up as an assumption we shouldn't be making.

That said, I wouldn't think you'd need much by way of experience or qualifications to know not to bring live ammo onto a set. As much as I hate to armchair armourer (... armchairourer?), that seems like extremely basic common sense.

A never shot a gun but I assume a real bullet might be used for scenes that require it to be aimed at something that isn't alive.
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Sarcasthma posted...

Rev trying to argue with adjl.

This is going to be enjoyable.

Lmao

Revelation34 posted...

A never shot a gun but I assume a real bullet might be used for scenes that require it to be aimed at something that isn't alive.

that's a pretty bizarre assumption

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ReturnOfFa posted...

that's a pretty bizarre assumption

I wouldn't know. Have no interest in owning one.
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Revelation34 posted...

I wouldn't know. Have no interest in owning one.

Why would you need to own a gun to understand whether or not live ammo or blanks are used on a movie set?

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ReturnOfFa posted...

Why would you need to own a gun to understand whether or not live ammo or blanks are used on a movie set?

I said live bullets used for shooting certain scenes.
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Revelation34 posted...

I never shot a gun but I assume a real bullet might be used for scenes that require it to be aimed at something that isn't alive.

If it's a revolver they might use dummy rounds containing a real bullet but with a cartridge missing the powder and primer. This is because an unloaded revolver could be quite obvious in a closeup. Because they have no powder or primer they cannot be fired; they are completely inert and harmless. But an improperly made dummy round can be extremely dangerous, as in the case of Brandon Lee.




Weapons with fully internal magazines are used completely empty unless they are planning on firing blanks.

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

Finallya smoking gun.

Revelation34 posted...

I said live bullets used for shooting certain scenes.

and like I said, that's a very strange assumption

extremely, extremely uncommon
https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/84171/has-a-major-film-ever-intentionally-used-live-ammunition-to-film-a-scene

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for me, I would think the way this should work hypothetically is something like:

either a) live ammo (and/or real weapons) are never allowed to be on any movie set ever under any circumstances and its mere presence is enough to get someone fined or charged

or b) all ammo/weapons on a movie set must be special ammo using a special labelling system (red band = real, yellow = dummy but still potentially dangerous, green = harmless under all circumstances) (maybe an issue is: there should or can not really be any red or green ammo... red ammo shouldn't be there in the first place; and you should never treat any ammo as harmless regardless of its label; maybe make it red/orange/yellow then.)

(or both really; all ammo on a set should be "movie ammo" using a clear-to-all labelling system; and any ammo that is not "movie ammo" is illegal to be present)

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https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/24/entertainment/rust-shooting-assistant-director-halls-complaints/index.html

Cacciato posted...

Finallya smoking gun.

You fucking SOB!!! Im dying!!!


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