Board 8 > I just watched Birds of Prey

(+) Yeah! (+)

This was a really good movie, although the Birds of Prey are barely in it.

I havent watched WW84 yet but I feel the DCEU is now majority good?

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Id say there are more bad movies than good still. WW84 is an absolute goddamn disaster of a movie too.

BoP is the worst DCEU movie (haven't seen WW2).
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I personally felt like BoP was mediocre, but there were def good things about it.

WW84 is actively awful.

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Bad:

Suicide Squad
WW84
Man of Steel
Batman vs Superman
Justice League

Decent/tolerable

The Suicide Squad
Shazam
Aquaman
Snyder League
Wonder Woman

Huh I guess Im exactly tied and Birds of Prey will be the deciding factor since Joker was a standalone thing

Im definitely not optimistic about WW84. However, that would still be like four bad films to like six or seven good ones.

I like Man of Steel.

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WW84 isn't just the worst DC film, it's genuinely one of the most bafflingly awful films ever made.

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birds of prey sucked.

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I'm big on DC but I thought Birds of Prey was pretty awful.

But being big on DC is likely a big factor in why I don't like it, so...

Rosie Perez as Montoya may be one of the most baffling awful performances I've ever??

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WW84 is so bad it's almost impressive.

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Birds of Prey had Ewan McGregor and zero other redeeming factors.

It was better than WW84 though.

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man of steel was good y'all trippin

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WW84 is possibly the worst film I've watched in the last five years.

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Man of Steel was very much...not great.

The trailers were very good though!

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I love the action scenes in Man of Steel.
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RikkuAlmighty posted...

WW84 is possibly the worst film I've watched in the last five years.

WW84 is so bad it makes Syfy originals look like AAA Oscar winners

Birds of Prey was the first movie in a long time that I turned off halfway through.

The new Suicide Squad was good, though.

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Remember when all those BoP stans started saying Sonic was for misogynist because it was doing better at the box office?

Remember when they changed the name of the movie in the listing mid release because it was doing so poorly?

These aren't relevant. Just fun times.

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Pedro tried so hard to save ww84 but it was just too much to overcome

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Remember when all those BoP stans started saying Sonic was for misogynist because it was doing better at the box office?

haven't seen sonic but that looked bad too (even in the later trailers featuring the "good sonic").

maybe it's still better than BoP, though!

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Im glad I lured LtM in this topic because he gets to what I actually want to talk about which is the notion of comics fans angrily demanding precise replications of what they know. None of whats different from the comics hurts the film Birds of Prey in anyway. The question should never be does this follow the comics but does this serve the film, the comics are really irrelevant. It was the same with Iron Man 3 for instance.

Now if you bristle at that, what if I told you that the comic purists are just the precursor to the its bad because the story didnt go the way I wanted type of fans that really became s thing around The Last Jedi. It is the exact same root issue.

You should embrace things that challenge and differ from existing material and your existing ideas on that material. Some of the greatest adaptations of all time radically alter elements of the work. The greatest example may be the ending of The Mist which is genuinely one of the most harrowing endings of any film and also not just radically different but also the complete ideological counter of the book. That would never happen under a mindset of adherence to a source.

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I haven't read the comics and still thought BoP was bad.
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Yeah I dont read DC comics and thought Birds of Prey sucked.

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That argument only works if the adaptation is successful and the changes are in good service of the story and gave a purpose.

BoP is just not good. The absurd changes are bad but they are just a footnote. A side effect.

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WW84 also sucked. Even moreso.

First WW was good.

Enjoyed Aquaman and Shazam.

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yeah, the only things i know about birds of prey in the comics is... they exist and i can name some of the members. i never read it. my knowledge of the marvel comics is fair but i know very little about the DC comics.

i just thought the movie was bad. and i seriously doubt there was a change in it that was as amazing as the ending of the movie version of the mist.

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swordz9 posted...

Bad:

Suicide Squad
WW84
Man of Steel
Batman vs Superman
Justice League

Decent/tolerable

The Suicide Squad
Shazam
Aquaman
Snyder League
Wonder Woman

Huh I guess Im exactly tied and Birds of Prey will be the deciding factor since Joker was a standalone thing

swap Snyder Cut with Man of Steel and this is mine (albeit I barely remember the latter other than going this was fine)

but Birds of Prey is alright although dont go in with any expectations


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Birds of Prey is pretty good but you definitely have to be willing to vibe with the quirky Hot Topic aesthetic and humor

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Haven't seen Birds of Prey. Merely thought Wonder Woman 1984 was mediocre, around the same level of quality as Batman Forever.

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The reference to The Mist was not a comparison in quality just an instance of when wild deviations actually work to enhance the film. If you look at Darabonts other adaptations notable The Shawshank Redemption and the early seasons of The Walking Dead it is clear that he is the master of that kind of thing and you shouldnt expect others to compare!

If it just doesnt work for you thats fine obviously! Just noting that pattern in the discourse around the film.

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There are definitely some folks who will raise hell about Cassandra Cain and then not even watch the movie. No reason to care about those people and jokes on them they don't get to see the Montoya performance which is way worse than anything they made up. There's a reason that once the movie actually came out I stopped talking about it until I watched it over a year later.

Other than the name change thing because it's funny.

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I will say that if Suicide Squad was a poor mans Guardians then this movie felt like a poor mans Deadpool in some ways

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Lightning Strikes posted...

Im glad I lured LtM in this topic because he gets to what I actually want to talk about which is the notion of comics fans angrily demanding precise replications of what they know. None of whats different from the comics hurts the film Birds of Prey in anyway. The question should never be does this follow the comics but does this serve the film, the comics are really irrelevant. It was the same with Iron Man 3 for instance.

Now if you bristle at that, what if I told you that the comic purists are just the precursor to the its bad because the story didnt go the way I wanted type of fans that really became s thing around The Last Jedi. It is the exact same root issue.

You should embrace things that challenge and differ from existing material and your existing ideas on that material. Some of the greatest adaptations of all time radically alter elements of the work. The greatest example may be the ending of The Mist which is genuinely one of the most harrowing endings of any film and also not just radically different but also the complete ideological counter of the book. That would never happen under a mindset of adherence to a source.

As someone who adores the differences in so many adaptations, and as the resident comics guy on the board, there is divergence and there is eradication of the concept. Challenging the material is great - creating something that actually ignores the material entirely is another.

This is the same problem I have with the Foundation adaptation on Apple+ right now. There is wild divergence from the source material - some of it is good, but much of it feels like change for the sake of change. And at some point, it would be better to create something entirely new if the entire spirit and soul of the adaptation is being removed completely. This was my problem with Birds of Prey - the ONLY reason Birds of Prey existed was because it showcased Barbara Gordon in a leadership role and everything else about it could have been done in any other title. This is also the reason why the Birds of Prey failed in the New52 reboot. Oracle as a concept was entirely about overcoming physical and emotional adversity and becoming the strength behind a group of heroes. Uniting them, giving them purpose, being there for them.

Birds of Prey as a movie was just so soulless because it wanted to be an off-shoot of the Suicide Squad film and not the Birds of Prey. It could have been its own thing, but it deserves a comparison if it uses the name. That's all there is to it. The crux of Birds of Prey has to remain in order to hold that name.

No one makes this argument about Justice League because despite an absurd variety of changes to the concept, the crux of the Justice League remains, as does Avengers, as does Teen Titans, etc. The Green Arrow really never acted like the Oliver Queen of the Arrowverse. The crux of that character was radical liberalism! Oliver Queen was mayor on Arrow and he STILL never dipped a tow into politics, and if he did, it felt conservative, if anything.

The major problems with Birds of Prey start and end with the writing more than anything else, but once I get past that point, I have to ask - just as I do with Foundation - did the writers really need to name this Birds of Prey? It has no emotional connection to the source material. The superficial changes really never bother me. And creating entirely original plots has been pretty much the standard for every superhero movie! But a character should remain, at its core, a character. Whether you make Superman black, white, straight, gay, whatever, if he's not an alien trying to determine the legacy of his upbringing versus his birthright and just how far his role as shepherd of humanity extends, then it's not Superman. And that's okay, but don't pretend that it is.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

did the writers really need to name this Birds of Prey?

Apparently not even they thought they did!

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Ha, yeah, that's a fair point.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

Birds of Prey as a movie was just so soulless because it wanted to be an off-shoot of the Suicide Squad film and not the Birds of Prey. It could have been its own thing, but it deserves a comparison if it uses the name. That's all there is to it. The crux of Birds of Prey has to remain in order to hold that name.

BoP would've still been bad if they called it "Harley Squad" or something.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

BoP would've still been bad if they called it "Harley Squad" or something.

Absolutely - like I said in my post, it was bad writing. But it still deserves its comparisons to the source concept.

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I was fine with BoP

I finally got around to it right before The Suicide Squad tho soooo... one definitely makes a stronger impression

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The whole reason Birds of Prey was made was because Margot Robbie wanted to introduce more female characters into the DCEU. Noble at least?

I'm glad we're getting more female-led comic book movies in any case. Now I wish they're actually GOOD, but I don't want to imply that they're really any worse on average. On a scale of 1-10 I'd rate Captain Marvel and Black Widow on the higher end of 6 (the former almost reaches a 7), and Wonder Woman 1984 on the slightly higher end of 5 (below stuff like Rise of Skywalker and Van Helsing).

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I haven't willed myself to see Birds of Prey yet, and Black Mask is one of my favorite Batman villains and I was initially excited to see him in live action.

But Wonder Woman 84 is a confusing mess of a movie. And I absolutely loved the original Wonder Woman. WW84 is just a mess in every idea and just feels impossible these same people were involved with the first one.

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LiquidOshawott posted...

I will say that if Suicide Squad was a poor mans Guardians then this movie felt like a poor mans Deadpool in some ways

yup. it was like the deadpool movies but without the charm and legitimately funny jokes.

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BoP seemed fine by non-MCU superhero movie standards to me, aka not especially good in general but amusing enough.
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LinkMarioSamus posted...

The whole reason Birds of Prey was made was because Margot Robbie wanted to introduce more female characters into the DCEU.

And yet Black Mask was the only good character...

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

But Wonder Woman 84 is a confusing mess of a movie. And I absolutely loved the original Wonder Woman. WW84 is just a mess in every idea and just feels impossible these same people were involved with the first one.

Pretty sure it's not the same writers. I appreciated Jenkins' direction but my god that script! And even then my main problem was more that the film dragged a lot and that there wasn't enough Wonder Woman. I could care less about so-called logical inconsistencies although they assuredly do not help.

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Awful:

Suicide Squad
WW84
Justice League
Birds of Prey

Decent/tolerable

The Suicide Squad
Aquaman
Snyder League

Good:
Batman V Superman
Shazam
Wonder Woman
Man of Steel

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I really liked birds of prey whoops

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