Poll of the Day > My roguelike's demo is finally out

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hello!

My second roguelike's demo is now available for download off Steam. The game has been in the works since May 2020, and will continue to be improved upon up until it's scheduled release date of Nov 19th. This will be a complete game, none of that EA crap!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1630690/Equin_2_The_Warren_Peace/

About
It is the sequel to Equin: The Lantern and has a high focus on interesting items and an easy to grasp control scheme. That last part was very important to me, as many traditional roguelikes that I want to get into are just way too complicated for their own good.

The demo allows for you to play as the Warrior through the first two areas. Otherwise there are no other restrictions. Any questions please ask away, I love this kinda' stuff. Also if you guys have any suggestions PLEASE let me know. I want to make this the best and most fun game as I possibly can... BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE

Thanks!

Screenshot-o-rama






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This must have been a lot of work. Awesome.

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Clench281 posted...

This must have been a lot of work. Awesome.

Honestly? Yes.

This time I had no outside help for stuff like the music, so I had to kind of learn piano and attempt to keep steady drum beats (which is hard for me!)

The good news is that if this ever blows up the millions will be mine!

The bad news is that if it tanks I can't really point the finger at anybody else haha.

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Bump. Just once though.

Been working on some new stuff today and yesterday, but it's not on the demo as I'd have to update two different .exe files and it'd take twice as long to finish.

Temple area's new look includes vines and more MOSSERY. Well water has also been improved a bunch plus it's animated. Piles of rubble can block your way, which is cleared for 4 stamina points. Sometimes you'll find sacks of money or monsters hiding underneath:



Even these seemingly small changes really make a huge difference!

Next up we have a new enemy, the Mega Toad. It's mega! It has a battle ability that summons up a swarm of flies that surround it. The flies act as a magical defense shield (+5) and can block your physical attacks 30% of the time. This guy below is in mid jump, the animation for this took ~2 hours:



Lastly I changed it so that Giant Ants live inside new ant hills, that you can kick in the desert and make one pop out and fight it. Each ant hill has between 2-4 ants living inside. If you kick the hill after all the ants are out you'll collapse it and earn a bunch of XP. What's cool about this is that it's entirely up to the player if they want to be a dick and wreck their homes or not:



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Tracking. Will check it out soon!

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Black_Crusher posted...

Bump. Just once though.

Been working on some new stuff today and yesterday, but it's not on the demo as I'd have to update two different .exe files and it'd take twice as long to finish.

Temple area's new look includes vines and more MOSSERY. Well water has also been improved a bunch plus it's animated. Piles of rubble can block your way, which is cleared for 4 stamina points. Sometimes you'll find sacks of money or monsters hiding underneath:



Even these seemingly small changes really make a huge difference!

Next up we have a new enemy, the Mega Toad. It's mega! It has a battle ability that summons up a swarm of flies that surround it. The flies act as a magical defense shield (+5) and can block your physical attacks 30% of the time. This guy below is in mid jump, the animation for this took ~2 hours:



Lastly I changed it so that Giant Ants live inside new ant hills, that you can kick in the desert and make one pop out and fight it. Each ant hill has between 2-4 ants living inside. If you kick the hill after all the ants are out you'll collapse it and earn a bunch of XP. What's cool about this is that it's entirely up to the player if they want to be a dick and wreck their homes or not:

I really don't want to know where it popped out of.

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The ant hill!

It was something I just thought of like, hey that might be cool. In practice though I love kicking these little bastards' houses in lol.

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Downloaded. I'll give it a go shortly! Maybe tomorrow though as I have work today.

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Thanks a lot man. And honestly, if you see something that could use tweaking or improving please let me know. I'm working on this pretty much every day now until November.

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Quick question, is there a way to change the audio? It's quite loud and while I could turn my headphones down, I'm listening to something else while playing.

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Final Fantasy2389 posted...

Quick question, is there a way to change the audio? It's quite loud and while I could turn my headphones down, I'm listening to something else while playing.

No, not without manually turning down your computer's volume.
But see this is the kind of stuff I need!

I'll work a volume option in ASAP, it might take a couple days or so but I'll do it.

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I love the ascetic/look, but I would love a lot more if it were zoomed out a bit and you could see more of the surroundings <_<

That frog is adorbs

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ReggieTheReckless posted...

I love the ascetic/look, but I would love a lot more if it were zoomed out a bit and you could see more of the surroundings <_<

Awww, that's what they said LAST time :(

It's true! The first game was really zoomed in and the main screen was a 5 x 5 tile area. That's why this one is 7 x 7. That might not seem like a lot but the way I have to do this (incorporates a lot of layers on the Z axis of an array and many many active objects to display the sprites) it would slow down horrendously if I made it any larger.

Lokarin posted...

That frog is adorbs

There's already a dart frog that looks really different but yeah this came out pretty well I'm happy with it.

Black_Crusher posted...

I'll work a volume option in ASAP, it might take a couple days or so but I'll do it.

Turns out I was a wee bit off on my timetable for this-


It's really basic but it'll give you the option to have the main volume set to 100% / 50% / OFF. Unfortunately the way I made the game this will control both music and sound effects at once. But the good news is that it works.

I'll try my best to update the current demo with this later when I get home.


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Played it twice, few thoughts.

First time I played it, the second level had fire all over. Luckily I took the 3 bandages, but it burned my shield and all the damage I took pretty much was from fire (used all 3 bandages getting through the area).

Second time that didn't happen, but I ran into a croc and it killed me in 2 hits, with full health, a shield and I took the +3 defense/block chance skill.

I will play it some more but for now, I would suggest reducing the amount of fire on levels with fire, or creating some way to use stamina (which I will get to in a second) to put the fires out.

Meanwhile stamina is overly abundant due to the number of flowers in both games. You could always use the +15% chance to hit attacks (Which I did). I would change it so red flowers return some hp, and blue ones some stamina instead, that way you can heal up a bit (would also help with the fires, though i'd still reduce the number of them).

Meanwhile I have not played enough to see how common a crock is, but that was pretty silly/crazy. I was all set to be doing fine for quite awhile with a full inventory of flowers (lol), higher defense which I had just gotten (so even if I got hit, I would take significantly less damage) etc, and BAM, one crock (that you can't even see in advance) and I was dead. Hit me for 16 damage twice in a row (I hit it both times using the +15% to hit, but only did 2 damage a pop).

Over all the movement/mechanics seem good, and the sound is good/nice. I'm not much of a graphics/sound guy, I prefer gameplay.

I would suggest actually changing it (if possible) to give a choice EVERY time you level up, which will make them seem more important. If you don't wanna give a skill (which makes sense that is alot of work to make enough), give the option for stat upgraded etc (so I could get more attack or more defense in that last level), perhaps for the first level up you could give more hp or more stamina as an option etc.

Having something to choose/gain every time you level up would make it more fun.

Also, while I did find a guild, it is only useable on that level, perhaps ensure a shop where you can buy stuff (and possibly sell it) at least every other level (IE simply code it if you leave a level without a shop, the next level will automatically load one). That would make getting money more useful, especially early on, and help kick start a new game.

I like the choices at the start, but a few seem a bit more...useful than others. Taking +1 attack lets you basically auto-kill everything initially (in combo with the starter sword) and since you can use the +15% to hit ability constantly, you rarely miss. That makes actually fighting in the first couple levels have no danger (only get hurt if the enemy gets to strike first AND doesn't miss you/get blocked (and even then with the shield many will do 0 damage).

As far as the penalties, I always took the -2 hp, since you gain more hp quickly (max), the +1 damage seems much more useful than an additional 2 hp to me.

Perhaps make the positive choice have an automatic negative choice (so +1 attack gives -1 defense for instance...which would be pretty balanced I think).

Anyway good job so far. Seems simple but works well. Let me know if you add more stuff etc and I will play some more and test it out.

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Not to put pressure on you or anything...

but your progress gives me, like, hope and stuff

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@wolfy42

Ill be better able to answer you later on I just got in and the kids are screaming outside haha.

Main thing is the crocs are designed to be pretty much OHK machines early on, as it teaches the player to stay out of the water or otherwise be really careful while navigating it. There are other monsters that swim in the game later too (and moccasins on the first two floors) and they are all unknown until you fight them and have the "submerged" tile. I did that on purpose but I could always make them visible. Some people seem to like the deadliness of water monsters like this and some don't. It's a tough call.

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So is this 100% traditional where everything is *poof* gone and start your new game once you die?

Or is it like the games nowadays do where theyll have some sort of system to work your way towards overall progress and carry things over

Nog I killed some moccasins and they were fine.

Due to being forced to go through water sometimes though, OHK monsters might be frustrating, but if people like it, that is cool (literally cause your in the water hehe).

Risk vs Reward is more fun in my opinion, maybe the more you move in the water the higher chance of getting attacked by a crock, but water usually is only blocking ways to a chest etc instead of you having to go through it to get to the next level.

Anyway it did seem sad to have such a good start of a run going, and then just have it instantly ended due to a croc. Perhaps toning em down a bit so they use alot of resources, seriously hurt a player, but don't instantly kill them.

As an example, I didn't really get hurt by ANY of the enemies on that run at all till the crock (including moccasins before then). I then leveled up and got the +3 defense bonus, which made me even stronger compared to the enemies, but was killed in 2 rounds by the crock.

Perhaps having the crock do a base 10 damage per attack, and still have the high defense that reduces your damage greatly would work better. With a shield (if you still have it) and the +3 defense, that could drop the damage down to 4-5 a round or so, which may not actually make killing it possible, but would still make it more of a fight, and who knows, maybe you could even win.

I'm guessing for it to do 16 damage to me it was probably doing over 20 base damage a pop, which at that level is basically game over for anyone who runs into it.

A way to defeat anything you run into, even if it's rare/hard to do, especially early on in the game, would probably make it more fun.

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ReggieTheReckless posted...

So is this 100% traditional where everything is *poof* gone and start your new game once you die?

Or is it like the games nowadays do where theyll have some sort of system to work your way towards overall progress and carry things over

So far it looks much like a version of maphack etc, more traditional rogue game, where each time you start fresh. Having progress though, where things carry over, would be nice in the long run, it gives any game more life (people don't get bored as fast).

For this, I'd have progress for each character class that you play, things you can unlock for them, perhaps based on total gold gained per run (including gold spent).

Simple things like boosting base life for a class, base stamina, boosting damage, giving a ability/spell to start with, increasing the starting bonuses (reducing the penalties) etc.

That would certainly be long term after getting the base game coded, but most of the work creating the game is setting up the base rules/graphics etc, adding in additional gameplay elements can make a game WAY more fun, without having to spend that much more time/effort coding new things etc.

Of course, if you do add things like that, you need enough content/levels/areas etc for players to progress after gaining abilities etc.

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Okay!

So I just uploaded the updated demo. It was only supposed to have the new volume control option but I changed some things based on your suggestions, @wolfy42

Additions:

Volume options at 100% / 50% / OFF. I tested this and it should be compatible with anybody's existing options ini file already. Just press space bar on this option in the start menu to toggle whatever you want and it'll save for the next time you play.

Changes:

• The temple's bricks were mostly changed to the current game's mossy look, however the vines and etc and rubble piles were not included because that would entail a lot more work (esp the rubble) and as I said before if I updated everything on the demo that I did on the main game this'd never get done!
• The well's new look has been updated however
• The XP+10% bonus was changed to XP+20%. This was done because +10% XP doesn't really matter too much in the early game, which of course is what this demo only covers. This'll help a bit.
• The HP-2 bane was increased to HP-5. This should make it a little bit of a more difficult choice!
• The crates' (the ones that look like 3 together) gold drop rate was increased
• The barrel's gold drop rate was also increased
• Crocodiles and Water Mocassins can now be clearly seen on the main screen while walking around. It looks weird to me, but let's see how it goes over with everybody else.

Balance Tweaks:

I think my main problem was that this game is designed with each of the four classes in mind, however since you can only play was the Warrior in the demo, you're clearly seeing he can wreck most everything early (which is intended). What I've done is gone back and balance this demo for the warrior only. So many early enemies had their HP or physical defenses increased. I feel this is the best thing right now for demo purposes. The main game will likely not have the tweaks as then it'd really throw off the other three classes and screw them over :D

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ReggieTheReckless posted...

So is this 100% traditional where everything is *poof* gone and start your new game once you die?

Or is it like the games nowadays do where theyll have some sort of system to work your way towards overall progress and carry things over

@ReggieTheReckless Yes, there is no metaprogrression in this one that counts towards anything significant. I say this because there IS an item log which keeps track of everything you've ever collected. This will almost certainly count as an Achievement eventually but it won't hold sway on your runs. Most if not all traditional roguelikes don't really embrace metaprogression as it's felt that you should be able to start out weak and work your way from there. Starting off more powerful than usual due to meta is SORT OF seen as a kind of cheat I guess.

wolfy42 posted...

First time I played it, the second level had fire all over. Luckily I took the 3 bandages, but it burned my shield and all the damage I took pretty much was from fire (used all 3 bandages getting through the area).

Yeah this is a holdover from the first game. Any purely wooden equipment will burn if hit by a fire spell or if you step on a fire tile (oddly enough an explosion doesn't burn gear like this). You can either unequip the wooden stuff before you step on a fire or drink an orange potion for the fire resistance buff. To put out fires you have to step on a tile (and take the damage) then pour any type of potion from your backpack, which will extinguish the flames for good in that spot. You can even fill a bottle as many times as you want from a pond / lake. Just jump in the water when you have an empty bottle then press the space bar and that option will appear in the context menu.

wolfy42 posted...

I like the choices at the start, but a few seem a bit more...useful than others. Taking +1 attack lets you basically auto-kill everything initially (in combo with the starter sword) and since you can use the +15% to hit ability constantly, you rarely miss. That makes actually fighting in the first couple levels have no danger (only get hurt if the enemy gets to strike first AND doesn't miss you/get blocked (and even then with the shield many will do 0 damage).

As far as the penalties, I always took the -2 hp, since you gain more hp quickly (max), the +1 damage seems much more useful than an additional 2 hp to me.

I think the new balance tweaks will go a long way to alleviate these concerns!

wolfy42 posted...

Also, while I did find a guild, it is only useable on that level, perhaps ensure a shop where you can buy stuff (and possibly sell it) at least every other level (IE simply code it if you leave a level without a shop, the next level will automatically load one). That would make getting money more useful, especially early on, and help kick start a new game.

I may do something like this, but there actually are some things in the game that will greatly increases the spawn of certain things at certain times. For example there's a very high chance a shop will appear on the fourth floor of any area (not 100%, but it's very high). Also if you see a shop on a darkness floor it'll always sell a torch to help you light it. Relatedly, if you're almost out of food the next shop you see will sell a carrot.

wolfy42 posted...

Perhaps having the crock do a base 10 damage per attack, and still have the high defense that reduces your damage greatly would work better. With a shield (if you still have it) and the +3 defense, that could drop the damage down to 4-5 a round or so, which may not actually make killing it possible, but would still make it more of a fight, and who knows, maybe you could even win.

I'm guessing for it to do 16 damage to me it was probably doing over 20 base damage a pop, which at that level is basically game over for anyone who runs into it.

I want to keep the croc as-is (because eventually you'll be able to kill these things later in the game with better gear and levels). I think now that these are visible to the player it'll be a lot easier to avoid them. Let's see what happens!

Thanks everyone so far for your help too!

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Annnnd there's already a type-o..

For the XP+20% it still says +10% at the bottom (mechanically it'll be 20%)

This kind of stupid little thing aggravates the hell out of me, and I can't fix it until like tomorrow night. Ahhhhhhh!

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Made it to the end on the next run, died by end of demo heh.

Got the Rapiest which helped alot. Didn't see any crocks at all, just got really unlucky on my second playthrough.

There was fire only on the very last area before leaving, none before that this time. So again, seriously unlucky on the first playthrough where I had to run through like 20+ fires to get out of the second level.

Chests trap chance of going off, and the damage done when they do seem out of proportion. If one of the other classes is a thief and it will have a much higher chance that might make sense, but honestly I skip all trapped chests because I have a 20-25% chance of opening them and it's not worth it. I'd at least double the chance to 50% or so, but possibly also drop the damage done if you do set the trap off (though I didn't set a ton off to test, maybe, again, I just got unlucky (think it did 16 to me?).

Still never encountered a shop in both areas and I explored them all thouroughly except the very last one (cause tons of water and stuff). I did get a guild which fully healed me (which was nice) but I ended with 2 bandeges left as well, and a ton of stamina potions etc.

Oh that reminds me, for some reason after I went to the second area, the special ability that let me attack with a 15% bonus chance to hit went poof. Instead I could dodge etc, but just had the normal attack option. That 15% bonus was really nice and I missed it after that (never ever had stamina problems at all, so it was an automatic use while I had it.

Liked that you could auto kill bigger and bigger stuff as you leveled, but would like more of a advantage to leveling still. I only got to choose 1 time (again went for defense). Luckily I chose defense BEFORE I got the rapiest lol......since I mostly one hit killed everything with that (or two hit eventually) anyway, but the extra defense helped prevent alot of damage if the enemy got the first hit etc.

Getting poisoned sucked but it wasn't too bad, that was the reason I used my one bandage though (got poisoned a few times and it was like 8 hp a pop).

Still, before I got the rapiest (which was awesome..though the name is kinda scary), I was one shotting everything as the warrior. I took the +1 attack again, but this time I took poor, which I should have just done before. Honestly the -5 hp is now way to large especially compared to poor. I literally only spent 10 gold the whole game to use the guild one time. I got no negatives from starting with poor at all.

20% exp though......Next time I will probably take that, as I would have gotten another level I think before finishing (And since I didn't get a choice for awhile it might have given me +attack/defense again). That is looking like a better option especially since getting to level 3 or 4 (forget which it is) when you get that choice is a huge boost and makes everything easier by far. The 20% would help you do that much faster without having to fight bigger stuff (though I do think missing out on the +1 damage might make the enemies take more then 1 hit until you get a better weapon).

I did get 3 of them all together (including the rapiest), A +1 sword and another sword...each was better than the newbie sword. Seems like a good chance of dropping, got a helm, boots, a few armour choices (weirdly the wooden armor being better then the chain mail or copper armours).

Anyway glad I gave it another run, and I do think seeing the water stuff helps. The crocs are crazy strong so at least you can decide if it's worth it to go into the water with them, and will only be forced to do so if the stairs are past them.

I liked the statues you could touch and get a boost, I got hp and stamina boosts from them. That was really cool.

Let me know (don't worry just post in this thread I always check the board) when you add more and I'll check it out:)

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Final Fantasy2389 posted...

Quick question, is there a way to change the audio? It's quite loud and while I could turn my headphones down, I'm listening to something else while playing.

your computer doesn't have a volume mixer?
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

your computer doesn't have a volume mixer?

I forgot about that. I could try that.

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wolfy42 posted...

if you do set the trap off (though I didn't set a ton off to test, maybe, again, I just got unlucky (think it did 16 to me?).

Oh that sounds way too high. A regular chest trap deals 1-4 damage IIRC. Sometimes an exploding one will deal more but not 16 points. If it were a golden trapped chest it might be close to that amount though. There's a unique armor that lessens trap damage as well, I think it's the black robber's shirt.

wolfy42 posted...

Oh that reminds me, for some reason after I went to the second area, the special ability that let me attack with a 15% bonus chance to hit went poof. Instead I could dodge etc, but just had the normal attack option. That 15% bonus was really nice and I missed it after that (never ever had stamina problems at all, so it was an automatic use while I had it.

The second ability always comes from the weapon equipped in your main hand. Aim Slice (the +15% hit one) is on most regular swords however a rapier-class weapon lets you dodge instead. Axes will have Chop (+75% damage, less hit%), Staff weapons will have a twin hit attack called Double Up, and so on. This secondary ability helps set two weapons apart from each other that might seem to be close stat-wise.

There's a pretty decent in-game help menu you can check out that tells you stuff like this and other things that's ah.. HELPFUL! Just press "H" from the main screen and you'll see a big list of stuff. You can also select your stats from the inventory screen with the item select cursor by pressing right and going over them. This is how you can see things like your max HP or STM, and it'll tell you a small bit about what each one does. It's not really intuitive though I was thinking about putting some sort of text on top telling the player that they can press that way for more help.

wolfy42 posted...

Still, before I got the rapiest (which was awesome..though the name is kinda scary),

It's a play on words, not in a creepy sense. It's basically a super Rapier, i.e. RapiEST. I don't know, I thought it was funny haha.

wolfy42 posted...

I was one shotting everything as the warrior. I took the +1 attack again, but this time I took poor, which I should have just done before. Honestly the -5 hp is now way to large especially compared to poor. I literally only spent 10 gold the whole game to use the guild one time. I got no negatives from starting with poor at all.

Originally you were in debt, and you started with -50 gold, but I thought this was kind of too harsh. Maybe a shop price increase would be a more fitting penalty? Usually I take +25% gold / poor since those balance out pretty well and you'll be able to make your money back a lot faster than normal.

I'll have to re-upload this thing later tonight anyhow, I can try to change things a bit more in the meantime. I'm stuck working yet another 12 hour shift at work so I can't do it until like 9pm EST or so if I had to guess.

wolfy42 posted...

weirdly the wooden armor being better then the chain mail or copper armours

Wooden stuff is actually really great, the trade off is that they are all destroyed by fire so you have to be extra careful with them. The icon in the upper left hand corner of a burning tree denotes you have equipped gear that's fire prone. You can also press "S" for the specials screen that'll show you your combat skills and any extra or current effects in more detail (both good and bad). So for your Rapiest unique weapon it'd list "Riposte after block" as a special effect. Getting a rapier-class weapon is cool because you might sometimes want the technically worse buckler instead of a high defense shield as those have the highest block %, and will help trigger the counter attack more often for huge damage.

Possible spoiler: If you get LePoof's Hat (unique, looks like a purple musketeer's hat) it has a huge penalty to critical chance at -50%, however it boosts your critical damage by like +300% as well. This thing is absolutely terrible until you equip a rapier, and then you're basically a living rabbit god because you'll always critical counterattack after block with those weapons, regardless of crit % chance.

The special screen is also great if you get poisoned, as it'll tell you exactly how many turns you have before it wears off (at -2 HP / turn, you can easily tell if you should heal up, or use an antidote and etc). If you are plagued it's here that you'll see how many points of penalty DEF it's causing. FYI getting plague will give you -5 to -10 DEF until you can get it cured, and buildings won't let you inside. You can cure this most easily by drinking from a well or bottled water, but catching and eating a catfish will do the trick too.

wolfy42 posted...

I liked the statues you could touch and get a boost, I got hp and stamina boosts from them. That was really cool.

They do a lot more than just that, keep trying them out! And thanks a lot, whether I take it or not your feedback has been very helpful.

Final Fantasy2389 posted...

I forgot about that. I could try that.

No, actually I'm glad this happened because I was able to make the game better because of it. So thank you for having it be too loud! When you can, try the updated demo and mess with the volume options to see if it works better for you.

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@wolfy42 Okay, the updated demo has been uploaded just now.

Big ch ch ch changes-

Aim Slice (sword secondary move) is now Hit +12% / ATK -1. This way it's still good but a player will still want to select a regular, stronger attack sometimes.

Forest Fires can no longer spawn in the Temple area at all

Fixed a bug where retrying the same guy after you die when you chose the XP+20% bonus caused an error. Works now!

Changed the 'Poor' penalty to 'Child Support'. You'll owe $50 in back support first (essentially you have -$50) after it's paid off with the first $50 you find you'll start getting money normally. I figure this is a bigger downside to just being poor with $0 in the beginning. Plus they're RABBITS. I mean c'mon, YOU KNOW. It's funny!

Bat Gangs will now call regular bats when they cry for help. This was a good suggestion from someone on Steam who had a billion bat gangs all around him until the end of time. To compensate for the new enemy amounts, the bat's drop rate was reduced 12% (was 19%) and Bat Gang's drop rate was increased to 20% (was 14%).

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I think these should go a long way in making things more fun and fair.


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Nice!!

I played again (before the changes) and got sacrificed on an altar lol!

Do like the humor in the game:)

Yeah, aim slice seems more fair that way (instead of just pure goodness).

Hmm hate to be going waaay left then way right, but I think child support (which is funny btw...rabbits lol) starting at -50 is a bit much...especially since I have seen 1 store so far and nothing useful (except a carrot) was cheap enough to buy. What -50 will actually do is stop you from using a guild for quite awhile, which is a pretty stiff penalty. Perhaps starting at -20 would be more fair (that would still mean no guild for the first two levels at least). Since you HAVE to start as a warrior right now, -50 means you are actually 100 down (since you normally start with 50). If you start at -20 though...that would still be 70 coins down (which is huge..and not worth it).

I would suggest reducing all coin drops by 1 instead, for child support (25% or 1 whichever is larger). That makes sense for child support hehe (you don't have ALL the money you get taken away for child support).

Good call on the bat gangs I did run into that a bit but due to being able to 1 shot them, got rid of the crowd pretty fast.

Yeah on the forest fires. Actually it makes sense to have the TREES be on fire, or bushes etc, but not normal tiles that you have to walk through normally to get to the exit. If it was an option to walk though them for non-required things) that would make more sense. Only had a bad setup that first time though, which used up all my bandages just to get to the exit (also was my first time so I didn't know it was only going to be that level).

The 20% exp btw does make you level up significantly faster, which as a warrior means more attack quite fast (and more defense as well). Noticed the +3 defense doesn't show up on your character screen btw (just shows defense from equipment), but i'm guessing it's in effect.

I'll play it some more eventually. My internet is down right now (using a hotspot to post), so I won't be able to get the updates yet though.

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wolfy42 posted...

I played again (before the changes) and got sacrificed on an altar lol!

Haha I like those events a lot. I'm going to be making more of them eventually, I just need enough to give a decent variety for the players in the meantime.

wolfy42 posted...

Noticed the +3 defense doesn't show up on your character screen btw (just shows defense from equipment), but i'm guessing it's in effect.

It's magic defense, which the warrior consistently loses every time he levels up (well, technically he loses MAG and 2 MAG = 1 MDEF). So what you're seeing is likely the +3 MDEF bonus added to the natural penalty they have. I kind of needed them to have this otherwise there's no real stopping them.

wolfy42 posted...

Hmm hate to be going waaay left then way right, but I think child support (which is funny btw...rabbits lol) starting at -50 is a bit much...especially since I have seen 1 store so far and nothing useful (except a carrot) was cheap enough to buy. What -50 will actually do is stop you from using a guild for quite awhile, which is a pretty stiff penalty. Perhaps starting at -20 would be more fair (that would still mean no guild for the first two levels at least). Since you HAVE to start as a warrior right now, -50 means you are actually 100 down (since you normally start with 50). If you start at -20 though...that would still be 70 coins down (which is huge..and not worth it).

I would suggest reducing all coin drops by 1 instead, for child support (25% or 1 whichever is larger). That makes sense for child support hehe (you don't have ALL the money you get taken away for child support).

You're killin' me, Smalls!

You can counter the -$50 penalty by picking the +25% gold, and get rid of the debt faster that way. I just think having it be -$20 I mean you can get that back really fast from a couple of lucky windows or crates, Especially if you've also chosen the +25% gold bonus. Let's just try it like this for a bit and see what happens hah

I've having issues with my Toad enemy- what's happening is if you kill it while its "flies" animation is going then the next enemies you fight all have the toad / flies animation (whoops). And of course everything LOOKS fine, and it only happens if you kill it when the flies are out. I don't want to get rid of this thing's fly shield so I've got to look further into it in a few minutes.


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I ended up making it XP +15%, with Child Support at $25. I think that's a pretty good compromise.

Also the HUD was updated a lot where the class picture and HP/STM is, as well as where the stats are listed on the inventory screen. I think maybe finally this part looks good to me.

The update went through this morning.

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Love the graphics, hate roguelikes so I won't partake.

Good luck, though. I like seeing games with great graphics 'make it'.

11110111011 posted...

Love the graphics, hate roguelikes so I won't partake.

Good luck, though. I like seeing games with great graphics 'make it'.

It's a bit different in some ways, mostly the battle system. You never know you may like it.

C'mon.. do it! Dooooo eeeeet!

P.S: Thank you for the sentiment I appreciate it.

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how long is a run if you manage to finish?

ReggieTheReckless posted...

how long is a run if you manage to finish?

Not that long, think it took me less than an hour but bear in mind that there are only 2 areas right now, it'll be longer eventually. Think there is...6..levels to an area (think that was it). You could do it faster if you j ust rushed but I generally tried to kill everything on a level before moving forward.


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Black_Crusher posted...

I ended up making it XP +15%, with Child Support at $25. I think that's a pretty good compromise.

That does sound more fair, although if the bonus it +25%, couldn't you just make the pentaly -25% so that positive and negatives cancel out?

Could do the same with most of them (and possibly even make more options) +1 attack or -1 attack , +1 defense or -1 defense, +25% gold or -25% gold, +5 max hp or -5 max hp etc.

That way they balance out exactly, but it gives you more choices for flavor over all.

For a warrior I'm thinking +1 attack is mostly pointless (Even though I really liked it at first) since you get so much from just leveling. Honestly +15% exp is totally worth losing 1 attack as a warrior just because you'll level faster and make up for that with just 1 extra level (not to mention getting the bonuses faster etc).

+1 defense is meh, nice out of the gate, but eventually you get defense from lots of equipment slots if you fill them. Armour/hat/boots etc. That can make +1 or -1 defense a much smaller difference.

The exp bonus is pretty large even at 15% tbh, but probably becomes less useful the higher level you are (and eventually makes no difference since you'll still be stuck on a higher level for along time).

Max hp actually could be one of the best since you can heal up fairly easily with bandages etc out of combat, and one of the easy ways to die is to be one shotted by crocks, special attacks, gold chests etc. Warriors again need this less, but i'm guessing the other classes will have less max hp then warriors.

Anyway looks good the way it is now, but I would consider maybe just making the bonuses/negatives equal. Also long term, possibly have those be things you can upgrade between runs (gold left at end of run can be used to purchase upgrades). This allows you to increase a bonus/penalty. But limits you to choosing a bonus/penalty of the same level (so if you upgrade +1 damage to +2 damage, you also have to choose 1 penalty to upgrade to level 2 as well, same for level 3 etc). This could give a long term mechanic for upgrading characters without destroying the balance (since you get a penalty as well). Could be interesting for some builds (gold for instance could start at -25% then go to -50% at level 2, -75% at level 3 and no gold at all for level 4 (not smart to take that for sure).

You would have to change hp to be a either a lower amount (say 3 a pop), or a %, in order for there to be 4 potential levels. That is even saying the other classes actually start with 12 hp or more (alternatively upgrades could be PER CLASS as well, meaning you need to get them for each class seperately, and you could even code the hp increase/loss per class (so like 1 for mages/2 for thief/cleric and 3 for warrior)

If mages start with something like 8 hp, thieves/clerics at like 12 and warriors (14 or 16 I forget), then that would be a large bonus when maxed for a level 1 mage (+4 hp would be 50% increase and prevent them from being one shotted by anything other than a croc initially). Warriors meanwhile could net a whole 12 bonus hp initially, making them able to take a few croc hits even by the time they get to them.

Anyway just a few ideas. Still have not played since last update (finally got internet back though).

I will do another play through soon though, I like the game so far, my ideas are just general ones to try and improve longevity and keep people interested/playing after they actually finish/win through the first time etc.

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The main reason I didn't want the good and bad to cancel each other out is because there's already a No Bonus choice, which means you don't have to choose a penalty (so essentially it's the same thing as a cancel)

I had the most bad luck with the demo today, as every time I re-uploaded it I'd find something wrong I missed, so I had to fix it then recompile and re-upload another build. No lie I did this three times in the span of maybe a half hour. I might be getting a bit burnt out on this thing but I gotta keep going lol.

The good news is that the current demo had stuff like improved UI, I added the temple vines after all (no rubble though), more fixes and etc.

I did more work in the full game as well, including fixing that toad graphical error and making the third area look better. I really only have to finish the final boss which is maybe halfway completed, but for now I'm going back one area at a time and getting them to feel "right". I think the temple finally does, which is great news. The desert is nearly there as well.

I'll take all your upgrade ideas into consideration but it'd be pretty different than what I have now. My main thing is once you clear an area you get to choose from one of three random rewards. Maybe I could tie some of your ideas into some event room cutscenes. There's one already where you can buy a unique for $500, I could put a special statue that's let you upgrade stats for your cash too. It'd be easy enough I think.

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ReggieTheReckless posted...

how long is a run if you manage to finish?

@ReggieTheReckless

It depends. The areas have a randomized size, floorwise. For example the Temple can spawn between 4-6 floors. One run you might only have 4 so you'd probably clear it faster than one that had 6 (but depending on how the level generates those four floors might still be harder to get through, who knows).

A full run through all 6 areas though can be on the long-ish side. Maybe 2-3 hours, but again it all depends on max # of floors per area and how they generate. There's a save / quit option available at any point in the game to come back to it later of course. So you don't have to play it straight through or anything like that.

When I playtest the game I mean lots of times I don't even get to the third area so it can be challenging for sure. Balance and testing are always being done in everything until it feels right. I really don't want to release crap, so I'm trying very hard to keep that from happening hah.

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Black_Crusher posted...

The main reason I didn't want the good and bad to cancel each other out is because there's already a No Bonus choice, which means you don't have to choose a penalty (so essentially it's the same thing as a cancel)

You are not forced to take the same penalty though, so you can get +1 attack but -25% gold for instance, and if you did implement the leveling system, you could boost attack as the positive and gold as the negative (but until you boosted something else you would be stuck ALWAYS taking gold as the negative for attack till there was another level 2 negative.

Balancing them out just means you get the same bonus or penalty basically, so if you take +1 attack you can get -25% gold or -1 defense or -3 hp etc.

Lets you have more options on how to play your character, but the positive and negatives are fairly close. No bonus just means your neutral with no changes either way.

It is a bit hard to balance, especially when only having one class right now (so it's all factored in towards a warrior). The hp bonus for instance could be MUCH more useful for a wizard, and the penalty could be insanely bad for a wizard (while -1 attack might not mean much to a wizard at all if they are using spells for instance (not even sure how that will work).

So basically it would just allow players to have a bit of choice on how a character plays.

And yeah, the stuff I was mentioning is just general ideas and certainly long term ones, not even close to needing to do that till after you have the full game set, and players can actually run through it and finish it. No point in coding stuff for AFTER a player finishes it, until thats already done (hehe). Still it's good to have potential long term ideas already in mind.

As an example you could have an alternative enemy that is super hard to fight on the last level (before the end game boss if there will be one). It's way harder then the boss, but you don't have to fight it (and have to actually choose to enter where it is, and fight it). Defeating it could give you an achievement though, and could require leveling up various ability through additional runs etc, giving players a reason to play over and over to get it. Things like that can draw players in and cause them to play a game far after they would have normally stopped:)

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wolfy42 posted...

(while -1 attack might not mean much to a wizard at all if they are using spells for instance (not even sure how that will work).

ATK on a wizard is mostly useless, however it's still needed if he wants to fill his Hit Streak gauge / HST (only done through melee attacks). And in the event that you have stamina that's too low to cast anything being able to do more than 1 damage is always helpful of course.

wolfy42 posted...

As an example you could have an alternative enemy that is super hard to fight on the last level (before the end game boss if there will be one). It's way harder then the boss, but you don't have to fight it (and have to actually choose to enter where it is, and fight it). Defeating it could give you an achievement though, and could require leveling up various ability through additional runs etc, giving players a reason to play over and over to get it. Things like that can draw players in and cause them to play a game far after they would have normally stopped:)

Bosses currently work like this for the most part. A boss enemy is not guaranteed to show 100% of the time on the last floor of any given area, they'll only appear if a Vault door spawns. Bosses are pretty hard, and killing them gets you the key to said Vault. Opening these will always get you something really great or lots of money. I'm going to tie achievements into defeating each boss, even though it's an RNG thing and I don't normally do stuff like that. The odds of a boss showing are not super low however so I don't feel especially bad about it.

100%ing the Item Log.. that's another story. I don't think it's even possible without putting hundreds of hours in the game overall. That's just a guess, it could be a lot less. I'd have likely nearly filled mine myself however the log was a late addition so it wasn't keeping track the entire time.

I got to thinking about all the talk on how long a run is, and thought hey why don't I just include a game timer? I mean that'd be cool and it'd be interesting to see actual numbers instead of all the guessing. I could have it pause whenever the player presses the ESC button but it'd keep running for everything else including the inventory screen.

wolfy42 posted...

It is a bit hard to balance, especially when only having one class right now (so it's all factored in towards a warrior). The hp bonus for instance could be MUCH more useful for a wizard

Yeah the demo is slightly different for sure, because there is just a wizard to play with. Even his starting gear isn't all the same in the actual game. For example the Torch is a Thief choice and Bandages are a Cleric choice. The Warrior in the full game can choose from: Starter Sword, Wood Shield, Compass, Anti-toxin, and a Hunter Hat. I made some of the selections in the demo different to give the player a wider range of items to mess around with.

There's a great player called FallingFerret who did a bunch of Twitch streams of the early beta and when playing a Wizard if he ever got the area clear reward of CON+2 he's take that almost every time. Increased HP (and STM) are super important for this squishy guy and CON is the most reliable way to boost it. Taking the max HP-5 would be pretty bad (or pretty good, for challenge) since they start pretty low as it is.

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I added a timer that'll keep track of your run's length. It's not down to the second, because these aren't really the kinds of games to speedrun I'd guess, but I could include that as well too.

What do you think of this?

The old death screen:


The new death screen:


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I like the new screen, and don't like ghosts!! I usually avoid them if I can (just about the only enemy besides a croc (which I have not seen again since that one killed me) I'll avoid.

Almost died to a ghost once.........once.


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Looks cool. Gonna give it a shot later. I used to love these games. Wish more created games like these. Like Phantasy Star 4 ended with a rock solid battle system. Same goes for Earthbound imo.

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Off topic (sorry) but I always thought the term was roguelite. Im having a mendela moment

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MrMelodramatic posted...

Off topic (sorry) but I always thought the term was roguelite. Im having a mendela moment

they are honestly used so interchangeably in the gaming world that it is starting to feel silly even differentiating between the terms imo

It might have meant something more specific previously but it has really expanded beyond that. Just call games that are similar to Rogue True Roguelikes and leave the plain old Roguelike term for everything else that has the basic gameplay structure

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Mead posted...

they are honestly used so interchangeably in the gaming world that it is starting to feel silly even differentiating between the terms imo

It might have meant something more specific previously but it has really expanded beyond that. Just call games that are similar to Rogue True Roguelikes and leave the plain old Roguelike term for everything else that has the basic gameplay structure

I was not aware roguelike and roguelite were both used. At least Im not craaazyy

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Yeah, what constitutes traditional roguelikes is a slippery slope nowadays however EQ2 has four points which I'd argue must always be present-

• Permadeath
• Turn-based
• Tile-based / Grid-based movement
• Randomized dungeons and loot

Others will add that the game also must be non-modal, i.e all the action must take place on a single screen and can't have things like a separate battle or shop screen (which my game does). Of course luckily there are lots of traditional roguelikes these same players like and would classify as such that have things like a separate shop screen so I don't feel like I'm trying to pull a fast one or anything with this game's classification.

Great examples of roguelites- Enter the Gungeon, Slay the Spire, Spleunky 1, Binding of Issac.

Great examples of roguelikes- DCSS, ADoM, ToME, Caves of Qud.

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@wolfy42

I just updated the demo with a ton of crap, this should make for a more challenging experience plus a lot of it looks better too. The new death certificate made the cut as well.

This SHOULD be the last time I update this thing, so I can concentrate fully on the real deal 100%.

Thanks, everyone

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oh it's a demo? I thought it was a paid game, ha. I guess I'll try it out now

played a little bit of the demo and i gotta say im looking forward to the full release. pretty fun game dude!

guess self-promotion is allowed here now
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