Current Events > Times when a retcon actually made a piece of story retroactively better?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Any spring to mind?
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The Fate series being retconned from being porn.

Comic book character origins like Mr. Freeze.

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it's been a while, but didn't MGS3 have a bunch of retcons since the original MG games didn't flesh out some stuff in relation to Big Boss?

if so, then that.

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g0ldie posted...

it's been a while, but didn't MGS3 have a bunch of retcons since the original MG games didn't flesh out some stuff in relation to Big Boss?

if so, then that.

It's funny you bring that up, I played the Metal Gear games first so mgs 3 was weird
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One Punch Man retconning Amai Mask from massacring a bunch of innocent brainwashed mercenaries after tricking the other heroes to leave to the other heroes coming back in time to incapacitate them instead since Amai Mask turned out to be a good guy in the webcomic.
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Johnny gat

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Futurama, originally the dog Seymour died sad and alone. Now he lives a happy life with Fry.
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ArianaGrandSlam posted...

I respect MGS3 a lot and I dont think it ruined the series or anything but I think its obsession with the way that the Bosss will ties into the broader narrative scope of metal gear and the focus on that is kind of one of the weakest parts of the series

everything to do with Big Boss has always been fundamentally less interesting than everything to do with Solid Snake

Yea but SNAAAAAAAAAKE EEEEEEEATER!!!!

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Joestar Birthmark

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Warcraft is a weird example. The lore was an absolute mess for years because they repeatedly retconned things. It was all fixed when they released Chronicles which retconned all the retcons and firmly established which ones were real, solid history.

Now, of course, they've retconned that too.

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Big boss wasnt naked snake In metal gear 1. I know you can use rocket launchers to beat all sorts of bosses in mgs series. But in metal gear 1 you had to which to me makes it cannon solid used a rocket launcher to fight him

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pegusus123456 posted...

Warcraft is a weird example. The lore was an absolute mess for years because they repeatedly retconned things. It was all fixed when they released Chronicles which retconned all the retcons and firmly established which ones were real, solid history.

Now, of course, they've retconned that too.

Even before retcons the lore was a mess. The Manual for Warcraft 1 puts Garona at an age impossible to exist based on when first contact with orcs was established.

They fixed it by retconning her into half draenei but that was stupid since she's very obviously not half draenei.

They retconned it again in the movie to say medivh went to outland and sired her there so she's back to being half human. I'd say that specific retcon is a little bit better but there were other things in the movie that I didn't like the implications for the story in general.

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Doe posted...

Joestar Birthmark

elaborate?

edit: oh what..

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cuttin_in_farm posted...

The Fate series being retconned from being porn.

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I wouldn't call it a retcon but the MCU version of thanos was much better. I always found it stupid that he was jsut trying to please death.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Even before retcons the lore was a mess. The Manual for Warcraft 1 puts Garona at an age impossible to exist based on when first contact with orcs was established.

They fixed it by retconning her into half draenei but that was stupid since she's very obviously not half draenei.

They retconned it again in the movie to say medivh went to outland and sired her there so she's back to being half human. I'd say that specific retcon is a little bit better but there were other things in the movie that I didn't like the implications for the story in general.

The movie isn't canon. Garona is still half-draenei. In fact, Medivh being her dad is actually kind of hilarious. At the time, there was a canon comic series where she and Medivh had a kid together.

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No one is clear on WoW's lore except that redshirt guy

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mooreandrew58 posted...

Big boss wasnt naked snake In metal gear 1. I know you can use rocket launchers to beat all sorts of bosses in mgs series. But in metal gear 1 you had to which to me makes it cannon solid used a rocket launcher to fight him

Yeah, that's probably why the retcon/explanation in MGSV worked.

For my example, I've got Xenoblade 2. It's sort of a soft retcon. Xenoblade 1 showed that Klaus destroyed the universe and rebuilt it, while Xenoblade 2 shows that Klaus just destroyed the Earth and created a brand new universe (Xenoblade 1) tied to the Conduit he used to do such an experiment. I think this actually helps the story overall and deepens the connections among future Xenoblade games due to multiverse implications.

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yutterh posted...

I wouldn't call it a retcon but the MCU version of thanos was much better. I always found it stupid that he was jsut trying to please death.

What makes the comic version great is his fued with deadpool over it. Shame deadpool hadnt been aquired by Disney before end game

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"Better" is a stretch but Capcom retconning DMC 2's place in the timeline to take place after 1 at least kind of helped to be able to write it off a little easier lol

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Rocky III was the only retcon I remember liking.

In the first movie, Apollo Creed was depicted as a bigot. He was a Black boxing champion who delighted in the prospect of making an example of a White boxer and specifically asked that his replacement opponent be White.

In the third movie, he was recharacterized. We saw the impoverished background he came from, we saw that he didn't dislike White people, and while it didn't change the fact that he specifically asked for a White opponent, it retroactively changes the motivation to him wanting to show a bigoted society that he was the best and that, if anybody didn't like it, he could beat their best.

And it's all shown rather than stated.

Darkninja42 posted...

"Better" is a stretch but Capcom retconning DMC 2's place in the timeline to take place after 1 at least kind of helped to be able to write it off a little easier lol

Sequels usually do take place after 1 yes. Did you mean that they said it was like 50 years later or whatever making it pretty much the last game in the timeline?

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Tolkien rewriting portions of the Hobbit to fit with LotR, and saying Bilbo lied about it

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Blighboy posted...

Tolkien rewriting portions of the Hobbit to fit with LotR, and saying Bilbo lied about it

Yeah I never understood people equating certain retcons to plotholes in mgs games. A game about espionage where misinformation cover ups and lies is common practice in the real world

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mooreandrew58 posted...

Sequels usually do take place after 1 yes. Did you mean that they said it was like 50 years later or whatever making it pretty much the last game in the timeline?

Yeah I think he meant definitively the last one in the timeline.

...But I think Capcom retconned that once again with DMCV's release.

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Nier

mooreandrew58 posted...

Sequels usually do take place after 1 yes. Did you mean that they said it was like 50 years later or whatever making it pretty much the last game in the timeline?

Yeah originally it was just pushed to the end of the timeline but then they moved it to take place directly after 1 right before 5 came out.

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When Itachi was revealed to be good

BakonBitz posted...

Yeah, that's probably why the retcon/explanation in MGSV worked.

For my example, I've got Xenoblade 2. It's sort of a soft retcon. Xenoblade 1 showed that Klaus destroyed the universe and rebuilt it, while Xenoblade 2 shows that Klaus just destroyed the Earth and created a brand new universe (Xenoblade 1) tied to the Conduit he used to do such an experiment. I think this actually helps the story overall and deepens the connections among future Xenoblade games due to multiverse implications.

See, this bothered me because it massively lowered the stakes of Xenoblade 1's ending.

I do appreciate it tying things together a bit, though.

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-Unowninator- posted...

Futurama, originally the dog Seymour died sad and alone. Now he lives a happy life with Fry.

Which ruins the best episode of the show.

Glob posted...

Which ruins the best episode of the show.

Are you serious? I thought that episode was too sad to rewatch until the retcon.
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-Unowninator- posted...

Are you serious? I thought that episode was too sad to rewatch until the retcon.

Completely serious.

The fact that it's sad is what made it so good.

In that case would you dislike Avengers Endgame with Captain America getting to live happily ever after with Peggy, effectively ruining a fundamental part of his tragic backstory?

Or like if Batman was able to go back in time and save his parents and they're all sitting by the campfire at christmas
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-Unowninator- posted...

Futurama, originally the dog Seymour died sad and alone. Now he lives a happy life with Fry.

Gonna have to disagree. Terribly sad episode but one of the best.

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saspa posted...

In that case would you dislike Avengers Endgame with Captain America getting to live happily ever after with Peggy, effectively ruining a fundamental part of his tragic backstory?

Or like if Batman was able to go back in time and save his parents and they're all sitting by the campfire at christmas

That is weird. How did he not fuck the whole timeline doing that. Unless he created an alternate timeline but then enlisted stark and others to help him jump back to the original time line just so he could do what he did at the end

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mooreandrew58 posted...

That is weird. How did he not fuck the whole timeline doing that. Unless he created an alternate timeline but then enlisted stark and others to help him jump back to the original time line just so he could do what he did at the end

Oh let's not even get into the whole messed up timeline, where to begin, it was quite clear they were going for a "just be quiet and enjoy it" vibe
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FortuneCookie posted...

In the first movie, Apollo Creed was depicted as a bigot. He was a Black boxing champion who delighted in the prospect of making an example of a White boxer and specifically asked that his replacement opponent be White

That wasn't over bigotry as far as I remember. Or rather creed being a bigot. Rather using racism to sell tickets

Creed was a showman. Since it was a replacement fighter on a short notice and there was no way they were getting a good replacement match, he figured the best way to boost numbers was to get an underdog boxer to serve as a "great white hope" against the black champion.
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cuh posted...

I know people hate it (with valid reason, I must agree), but Dumbledore being gay actually makes his history withGrindelwald infinitely more interesting

That actually does make it interesting, and how he chose between siding with his lover or his family.

I wonder if those new terrible beast movies incorporate the gay thing since I heard grindewald is in it and dumbledore is in it. That would have been moderately interesting.
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saspa posted...

I wonder if those new terrible beast movies incorporate the gay thing since I heard grindewald is in it and dumbledore is in it. That would have been moderately interesting.

I've not seen it either, but I think they just super half-ass it.

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saspa posted...

I wonder if those new terrible beast movies incorporate the gay thing since I heard grindewald is in it and dumbledore is in it. That would have been moderately interesting.

So far they're just tiptoeing around it.

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MGS3
MGS4
MGS5

hell, anything that ignores MGS2

-Unowninator- posted...

Futurama, originally the dog Seymour died sad and alone. Now he lives a happy life with Fry.

That was horrible, that takes away the most emotionally impactful scenes from a TV show. Not even just cartoon.

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saspa posted...

That actually does make it interesting, and how he chose between siding with his lover or his family.

I wonder if those new terrible beast movies incorporate the gay thing since I heard grindewald is in it and dumbledore is in it. That would have been moderately interesting.

Was him being gay really a retcon? Just seemed like something they didnt bother bringing up. I personally dont care for the idea if a characters sexuality isn't brought up they are straight by default. But thats probably cause I'm big on using head canon to have things how I want them if the creator leavea that kinda room

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mooreandrew58 posted...

Was him being gay really a retcon? Just seemed like something they didnt bother bringing up. I personally dont care for the idea if a characters sexuality isn't brought up they are straight by default. But thats probably cause I'm big on using head canon to have things how I want them if the creator leavea that kinda room

No, it's not a retcon.

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Just to be clear

MGS2 is a beautiful game in its own right

but Im glad they didnt continue down that path exactly

pegusus123456 posted...

No, it's not a retcon.

I thought retcons where changes. Not simply new information added. Unless somewhere in the series hes shown to be straight

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