Board 8 > Favorite Ace Attorney Case 5 (and beyond) culprit? (Spoilers)

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Names in case you need them or don't want them spoiled for games you haven't played yet:

1-5 - Damon Gant

3-5 - Godot

5-5 - The Phantom/Bobby Fulbright

5-6 - Marlon Rimes

6-5 Day 1 - Paul Atishon

6-5 Day 2 - Ga'ran Sigatar Khura'in

6-6 - Pierce Nichody

E1-5 - Quercus Alba

E2-5 - Simon Keyes

I'm counting 5-6 because even though Rimes didn't kill anyone, he was still the mastermind behind the plot to frame Orla, so he qualifies, in my book.

Anyway, this lineup has some heavy hitters in it (and a couple of duds). I think 3-5 is the favorite here, but while I love him, it's not necessarily for his role as the culprit. I might actually have to give this to 1-5, who has an argument for the best single-case culprit in the series.

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Gotta go with 1-5 here (giving an HM to 3-5)

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wow 1-5 unanimously winning

(it has ALL 3 of the first votes!)

good as 6-5 is, it's not really because of the culprits

3-5's culprit is a great character but not as great of a culprit

1-5's culprit is a decent part of a bad case

this is e2-5 though, easily
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I've been thinking about this one for a while. I think it's 3-5. Godot's good, but prior to 3-5, he would have been "just" another neat prosecutor with a gimmick. 3-5 is what elevates Godot from a great prosecutor to a great character. It casts both a sympathetic light to Godot while also showing why he is such a flawed character. It's really Dahlia/Misty's murder that gives Godot the opportunity to have all those dimensions.

1-5 is, of course, great. I kind of think of 1-5 as the first post-trilogy case and, honestly, 1-5's culprit stands among the other epic culprits of the AA trilogy. I like the post-AA trilogy games, but they tend to miss more than hit with epic culprits. E2-5's culprit is also really great. I'm really glad to see Ace Attorney go all-in on a chessmaster sort of character like other murder mystery games. Keyes doesn't get too much time to shine since he's basically a nothing character in E2-2 and he only shows up in the final scenes of E2-5, but he makes his scene. Great backstory, great animations, and just a strong character all around.

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The theme song for E2-5's culprit is an absolute banger.

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We've got a few great villain themes in this bunch.

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Ho ho ho! Great results so far, Boardy!

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5-5's villain theme really elevated the character. Still a lot of missed potential there though.

Best is 1-5.

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I gave my vote to E2-5 due to his role throughout the game and how he duped me for most of the game. It's so fun that we have a found-innocent defendant turn out to be the mastermind.

3-5's is also great as a character but I don't feel like that's due to their masterminding the crime.

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3-5's is the best character in the series.

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NBIceman posted...

3-5's is the best character in the series.

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Wtf 1-5 winning
From what I noticed 1-5 used to be universally liked but declined in popularity over the years
Guess like the love for the culprit persists!

Anyway
3-5 easy

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Back in the day we used to debate whether 1-4 or 1-5 was better. Opinions on 1-5 have declined a lot over the years but there's still a lot to like.
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

Back in the day we used to debate whether 1-4 or 1-5 was better. Opinions on 1-5 have declined a lot over the years but there's still a lot to like.

yeah I feel like 1-5 was originally thought to be an almost consensus top 5 case back when the trilogy was still new

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Would probably still get ranked top 5 for the first three games! That's only 14 cases
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1-5 is a great case!

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Would probably still get ranked top 5 for the first three games! That's only 14 cases

Maybe! Don't think it's guaranteed, but it'd be top 5 for a lot just based on the OT. Regardless, I feel like it got the same level of respect the other epic cases got. I still think of it as an epic case myself because that's clearly what they were going for, but I don't know if it's been "downgraded" in the eyes of others.

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5-6 is legit my favorite character out of any of these haha, I love them so much

Went with 6-5

She was fantastically awful and, crucially, gave us a much-needed break from fucking stupid Nahyuta on the prosecutor's bench.

Also I've never laughed as hard at an AA game as when she changed her clothes and came out reminding me of Hexadecimal from Reboot

Maybe I should replay 1-5. Feel like it was such a drag by the end and it's kind of negatively tainted my opinion of almost everything in that case.

Could easily have gone with Godot though who is obviously excellent
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alba is a real piece of shit but i respect him for it even if he actively ruined the case because of it

Paratroopa1 posted...

5-6 is legit my favorite character out of any of these haha, I love them so much

yeah, tbf the transformatiom and that last testimony are incredible
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1-5 is still excellent, there just wound up being more excellent cases later on. 1-4 has also declined in popularity over time, neither would likely make a top 5 full franchise ranking. Also, no way does 1-5 miss a top 5 of the original trilogy. Aside from the other 3 finale cases what else could pass it? 3-4? I doubt it and that still leaves another case needed.

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can't believe that someone named lightning strikes is a fan of 1-5's culprit

Paratroopa1 posted...

can't believe that someone named lightning strikes is a fan of 1-5's culprit

Lol

I blame Advance Wars

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I'm surprised that 1-5 is dominating here. I know it's technically post-trilogy but I played it right after 1-4 of course and the culprit just felt to me like a lesser retread of 1-4's, but with no personal investment. 3-5's is a much better character imo but I guess you can argue they are a poor culprit because of the circumstances surrounding the death. 5-5's sucks.

1-5 on the whole is good but it definitely drags on and some of the touchscreen stuff was really annoying iirc.

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Lightning Strikes posted...

1-5 is still excellent, there just wound up being more excellent cases later on. 1-4 has also declined in popularity over time, neither would likely make a top 5 full franchise ranking. Also, no way does 1-5 miss a top 5 of the original trilogy. Aside from the other 3 finale cases what else could pass it? 3-4? I doubt it and that still leaves another case needed.

Nah, 1-4, 2-4, and 3-5 are still largely considered the holy trinity of the series (although 1-4 might be a distant third at this point) . If anything has surpassed 1-4, it's 6-5. Don't think there are three cases that beat 1-4 now overall for sure.

3-2 probably beats 1-5 in case rankings consistently. 3-4 would have a shot. Maybe 1-3 as well. I think that one in particular has aged well.

Might have to do a full OT case ranking topic once these polls are done!

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Yeah, I need to go through and play all the AA games again.

might as well unlock all the achievements in the AA trilogy collection

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The highs of 1-5 are stellar. The problem with the case is that it's too long, especially the investigation segments. But the good stuff is peak AA.

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I did look around for recent community rankings here and on reddit, and for the trilogy the top four remains 2-4/3-5>1-4>1-5, thats set in stone then 3-4 and 3-2 are neck and neck. The gap between 1-4 and 1-5 has probably widened but its placement hasnt shifted.

Now, if you widen it out to the whole series 6-5 absolutely goes above 1-4, that one is an all-timer up there with 2-4 and 3-5. I also think that E2-5 goes above it, though obviously its tricky as thats from a (soon to be the!) Japan-only release. I even saw 5-5 above 1-4 on here, though I dont think thats necessarily a wider fanbase view! 1-4 is still in the top 5 as far as I can tell, but at #5 with some rivals. There have been some really damn good modern cases.

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I don't even know if it's consensus that E2-5 is the best case in that game. I've seen a good amount of dislike for it. I feel like E2-3's more popular.
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Yeah, E2-5 isn't the consensus best case from that game, like how 5-5 isn't the consensus best case from DD. I certainly don't view it as an all-timer because it has the same problems 1-5 and E1-5 have. It's way too long and it has sections that really drag.

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The difference between those cases and 6-5 (which is the longest case in the series and it's not close) is that the latter feels like two separate cases rolled into one, so you're less likely to feel like it's too long.

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As far as I could tell, people thought extremely highly of E2-5, it was a consistent top case but I have no opinion or skin in this game because I havent played it! I have only finished the first case from that game. Maybe I will do a full playthrough soon as I doubt it will see a rerelease at least in the foreseeable future.

...Also, who says 5-5 isnt the best DD case? That seems like near-consensus to me, unless we are counting the DLC, and Id still say 5-5 has the edge.

Anyway, heres my galaxy brain 1-5 take:

1-5 isnt too long, or even that long at all. 1-4 is short, its about the same length as 3-2 and 3-3, and given the way the last day is paced, it feels like it could have been longer. By comparison 1-5 is the only case in the game that really justifies the 3 day format. 1-5 is about the same length as 3-5 and only slightly longer than 2-4. However, both of these cases, especially 3-5 (which introduces a whopping two new characters), largely depend on characters and plot threads we already know. However, 1-5 only has the core cast of Phoenix, Edgeworth, and Gumshoe return, even the companion is different. It has to introduce a whole new story in its own right in the space of one case, much more do than any other case in the series, so it justifies that length. It also had to A) justify the purchase of the DS rerelease for Japanese players and B) bring AA1 in line with the other games in terms of scope because it was originally only like 8 hours long, half the other two. So given that 1-5 was intended as effectively a new game in its own right, and is basically giving us a whole new story that needs to both work as a finale for new players, and as a standalone story for returning ones, it needed to be that long to work. Its not E1-5 level ending fatigue, it actually uses that length.

Tl;dr, 1-5s length is good actually.

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I see a lot of people on B8 say 5-6 is the best case. I don't agree, but it's not an uncommon take.

1-5 is a drag until Jake Marshall takes the stand, and that's the end of day 2. They wanted to have an epic 3 day case, but they also wanted each day to be the length they became starting with JFA.

1-3 and 1-4 are 3 day cases and take 5-6 hours to beat. 1-5 is in the running for longest case in the OT, and it doesn't really pull it off. I think the writing is not as good. The comedic writing in particular is way off, especially for Phoenix, where the joke tends to be that he's dumb, and he's not. Ema fails to fill Maya's shoes in that regard, too.

Like 6-5, 2-4 and 3-5 justify their length by making each day feel like its own case. Day 1 and Day 2 in those cases are so different from each other and it keeps them from feeling like a drag.

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We definitely are in need of a few case rankings after GAA releases...! We haven't done anything really like that since maybe Dual Destinies.

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SSBM_Guy posted...

We definitely are in need of a few case rankings after GAA releases...! We haven't done anything really like that since maybe Dual Destinies.

transience and I did a full set of rankings in the lead-up to SoJ, but we haven't really done much of that since.

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Personally I didn't really like E2-5 much at all after Debeste stopped being involved and it just kinda felt like it was dragging. Somehow it managed to make assassins boring.

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I really need to play 5-6.

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andylt posted...

I really need to play 5-6.

y
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Part of the problem with 1-5's length is the gimmick stuff that fills it up, like the vase and the video. It wouldn't feel as long without those draggy parts.
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I think part of the problem with the video in particular is that there's no real payoff. It's like they decided they wanted an FMV in the game and didn't really worry about how it impacted the flow of the case.

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Yeah it's interesting that 6-5 is definitely longer than 1-5 - but while in my mind 1-5 is a lengthy drag, 6-5 is excellent.

I think it's fair to say the last trial day of 6-5 begins to feel its length a little by the end and it has so many twists it's almost exhausting but I'd never go so far as to actually call it a "drag" at any point.
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6-5 is like an hour shorter than the entirety of Apollo Justice and over four hours longer than 1-5! Its kind of hilarious how much longer it is than every other case.

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That's really wild. I can believe it, though. Out of all the long cases, it definitely feels like it dragged on the least, but I think Day 1 and Day 2 are truly 2 distinct cases.

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Feels more like two cases than 5-4 and 5-5!
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Lightning Strikes posted...

6-5 is like an hour shorter than the entirety of Apollo Justice and over four hours longer than 1-5! Its kind of hilarious how much longer it is than every other case.

Apollo Justice isn't that short.

6-5 clocked in at around 14 hours for me (1-5, 2-4, 3-5, and E2-5 all clocked in at around 9 or 9 and a half hours, for the record), and AJ is in the neighborhood of 18-20 (as is PW1, even including 1-5).

It is longer than the original PW1 minus 1-5 though!

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I based it on youtube! Though that would be shorter than a natural playthrough I guess.

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YouTube skips a lot of content, yeah. I kept time trying to do EVERYTHING you can do in each case (well, almost everything. I wasn't wasting time getting all the wrong answer dialogue. Not worth it).

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Hey Leon, do you still have all the data? I could actually really make use of it for a friend who's streaming AA1-3 on a schedule and wants to know both how long each case is and how many lines of dialog everyone has (for splitting up voice acting).