Current Events > lindsay ellis getting canceled because she said raya the dragon is like avatar

(+) Yeah! (+)

cjsdowg posted...

Yes since she is complaining that Soul was Pro-Life.

https://twitter.com/_ishaans_/status/1375343728957644800

See now that's a bad take.

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cuh posted...

Women are typically held to higher standards than men. Men get away with a lot of shit.

When do men get away with stuff?

People complain about the Honest Trailer and Walker all the time. However their have built they fan base. Their fan base are people who come to them for jokes before really looking into the movie. She built a fan based on being a movie stuff first and jokes second.

There are even counter youtubers to people like Cinema Sin that goesn't behind their video and sin everything that got wrong.

She said something that her base didn't like and then called them crazies.

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Just another reason why social media is the worst thing created by the internet.

woke culture : lindsay ellis :: grizzly bears: timothy treadwell

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ThanksUglyGod posted...

she'll be fine

Oop!

OOP!

That's good to hear.

Cancelation will be good for her so she can think about what she has done.

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Holy shit, she de-activated?

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She was weak. This wouldve blown over in less than a month.

Future generations will look back upon this moment and laugh at the dishonorable surrender of one Lindsay Ellis, and how she brought shame upon her entire bloodline

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No she is not.

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Awesker002 posted...

Lindsay Ellis is a menace.

She tried to cancel Doug Walker.

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While I never liked her videos ( watched a few, found them to be incoherent babbling with quotes interjected inbetween), I think closing her Twitter account is a good and respectable move.

That place sounds more unhealthy with each passing day.
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Kitt posted...

Did she actually close her account over this? jfc

Wait, isn't that giving the haters what they want? That they successfully "cancelled" her in some way?

Now they might go after her elsewhere, hoping for repeat closures.
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Isnt she one of those people who endlessly complains about, like, everything for the sake of complaining? And just comes off as just someone who doesnt like anything? But not in like a fun jokey way.

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Naysaspace posted...

Cancel twitter

rexcrk posted...

Isnt she one of those people who endlessly complains about, like, everything for the sake of complaining?

That's generally what being a critic is.

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mech dragon posted...

Cancel culture is a virtue signalling term that people throw around whenever someone gets criticized. Who has actually lost their platform or status from being cancelled? No one. They were all just held accountable, fired from their job and/or at the very least lost followers on social media. If you think you got cancelled because you got fired from your job, youre delusional and telling yourself lies to feel better about your situation. If a company claims that theyre the victim of cancel culture (lol) theyre actually just being over dramatic and theyre just being boycotted, which people have done for ages. Did Lindsay Ellis lose her platform here? No, shes still making videos and people will still watch them. Dont be dramatic. This isnt like anti vaccination at all.

@mech_dragon

Uh what lol?

Tons of people have been cancelled. How do you honestly deny this? It is clear as day.

Trump got cancelled on social media. He's never really bounced back in any sort of sense and there's no guarantee he will.

Remember Harvey Weinstein and the entire #metoo movement? That was another example of cancel culture.

Kevin Spacey got cancelled too

Ari Shaffir has been cancelled multiple times and has somewhat found a way back each time

Shane Gillis was cancelled when the twitter mob got him fired from SNL

These are just examples of actual cancellations. You don't need actual cancellations to prove that cancel culture is real. Cancel culture being real means the threat of cancel culture exists and it influences people's actions.

What is happening to Lindsey Ellis is a perfect example of cancel culture. It's a twitter mob trying to harass someone into silence. That's basically all cancel culture is. Well, the term is more broad than that, but that is the general idea.

I mean, she closed her account over this...

So yeah not believing cancel culture is real does put you on an anti vaxxer level, because cancel culture is very obviously a real thing. Like you're denying the existence of it by calling people dramatic lol

I get the sense that people who deny the existence of cancel culture just do it as a screw you to Republicans who keep trying to virtue signal with the term to their constituents. It's especially lol, because the current Republican platform is basically screw with Democrats and fight stupid culture war BS. Republicans are definitely playing a stupid hand, but that doesn't mean cancel culture doesn't exist.

Like what do you expect cancel culture to do to someone before you'd consider it real? There's tons of examples of people losing their jobs and/or platforms over this stuffm


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TommyG663513 posted...

That's basically all cancel culture is. Well, the term is more broad than that, but that is the general idea.

I feel like not having a solid definition of what cancel culture is hurts you more than helps you.

"Trump got cancelled" so cancelling is for someone to break the rules on a social media site and be banned?

"Harvey Weinstein got cancelled" so cancelling is people presenting accusations of you committing crimes?

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hockeybub89 posted...

Imagine believing in cancel culture. Are Santa Claus and God real too?

@hockeybub89

Do you ever have any sort of explanation as to why and how cancel culture doesn't exist?

I see you always making the same post in every thread somewhat related to cancel culture.

Like how do you deny the existence of something we are watching happen. People are actively trying to cancel a person and you say "no that isn't happening."

How do you define something being real? Do you deny you are wet when outside in the rain, because you aren't submerged in water? That sounds like your logic.

Like I get that Republicans are really annoying with the term and how they use it, but you don't need to engage in bad faith on this.

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CyricZ posted...

I feel like not having a solid definition of what cancel culture is hurts you more than helps you.

"Trump got cancelled" so cancelling is for someone to break the rules on a social media site and be banned?

"Harvey Weinstein got cancelled" so cancelling is people presenting accusations of you committing crimes?

Cancel means your career is very significantly effected for the worse. It can happen in a variety of ways. It can happen for a variety of reasons.

People can also be heavily effected just by the threat of cancellation. Or a cancellation attempt can be completely uneventful like all of the random articles I see about gen z trying to cancel Eminem over past song lyrics.

Remember when James Gunn got cancelled for offensive tweets he made a decade ago? That's a weird case where he looked done for, but then he got hired by WB and now Disney wants him back on board too. That'd be an example of someone bouncing back from cancellation and even more rare seeming to be in an even better position post cancellation.


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I guess the easiest way to prove cancel culture exists is just to call everything cancel culture. You're bound to be "right" eventually.

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Yeah, as already been mentioned, I'm surprised the "rape rap" and other rape jokes she did back in the Nostalgia Chick days didn't get her.

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TommyG663513 posted...

Cancel means your career is very significantly effected for the worse.

So if Ari Shaffir "found a way back" does that mean he wasn't cancelled?

Remember when James Gunn got cancelled for offensive tweets he made a decade ago? That's a weird case where he looked done for, but then he got hired by WB and now Disney wants him back on board too. That'd be an example of someone bouncing back from cancellation and even more rare seeming to be in an even better position post cancellation.

But since he found a way not to only come back but flourish, what does that mean for your definition of cancel culture that someone's career has to be affected for the worse?

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CyricZ posted...

I guess the easiest way to prove cancel culture exists is just to call everything cancel culture. You're bound to be "right" eventually.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Unless its digital, then its just useless all the time.

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I think people like TC are also a big reason why cancel culture is so horrible. One minor thing and they have to make a whole topic about it to let everyone else know just how horribly someone is being treated.

Edit -

Well, not horrible. Just horribly abused

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mech dragon posted...

additional resources:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/07/us/cancel-culture-accountability-reality-trnd/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/07/us/cancel-culture-accountability-reality-trnd/index.html

FortuneCookie posted...

"It's time to cancel this talk of winter. Sometimes, it just snows. Some of the warmest days on record take place during 'winter' months. Winter doesn't exist."

@FortuneCookie put it pretty well lol

@mech_dragon

The article you linked even brought up Gina Carano as not an example of cancel culture lol. That's just straight up gaslighting. #Fireginacarano had been trending for months up to her firing. Then the article tries to state that she still has opportunities because she's gonna be in some Ben Shapiro movie. Like the article brings that up like "don't worry she still has tons of opportunity, because now she is working with Ben Shapiro in a creative endeavor."

Like who has ever had a positive experience working with Ben Shapiro? The guy has zero credibility in any sort of creative sense. Her career is on life support at best. You don't go from having your own Star Wars Disney Plus show to working on a movie with Ben Shapiro and say "yeah my career is doing just fine."

This one especially baffles me, because you'd have to go on record and say that a Ben Shapiro led project holds any value whatsoever. Like it sounds like Gina Carano's career is toast because she couldn't stop posting stupid stuff. I fully support Disney firing her, because she's really that stupid and represents their company poorly. That's still cancel culture though. If there weren't reactions on twitter to what she said and #fireginacarano never trended then I doubt she ever gets fired.

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CyricZ posted...

So if Ari Shaffir "found a way back" does that mean he wasn't cancelled?

But since he found a way not to only come back but flourish, what does that mean for your definition of cancel culture that someone's career has to be affected for the worse?

James Gunn's career was effected for the worse and there was no guarantee he'd ever come back from it. Fortunately for him, the opposite may have happened.

Though to be fair, we will have a better idea once Suicide Squad releases how well his career is really doing, but that's more of an aside.

And yeah Ari Shaffir has found his way back from cancellations "somewhat" multiple times, but he also lost lots of sponsors and fans each time. He's recovered to still be somewhat relevant, but it's effected him each time.

If you don't call twitter mobs going after people cancel culture then what do you call it? Aren't those mobs trying to cancel people? Does the reality of cancellation have to exist for cancel culture to be real or just the perceived threat of it which influences people's actions?

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CyricZ posted...

I guess the easiest way to prove cancel culture exists is just to call everything cancel culture. You're bound to be "right" eventually.

I guess the easiest way to prove cancel culture doesn't exist is by having an extremely narrow definition of it.

Cancel culture doesn't mean Thanos snaps his fingers and you waste away into nothing never to return

Cancel culture is the general threat of ostracism from society on various levels. The threat alone influences people heavily.

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TommyG663513 posted...

If you don't call twitter mobs going after people cancel culture then what do you call it?

Accountability. Public shaming. We have words for these things.

Do we need to make up a new term just because the rich, conservative, powerful, and influential are just now feeling that they can be held accountable for things they say and do?

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I guess Tommy, I have a simple question for you.

"Is cancel culture bad?"

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TommyG663513 posted...

@FortuneCookie put it pretty well lol

@mech_dragon

The article you linked even brought up Gina Carano as not an example of cancel culture lol. That's just straight up gaslighting. #Fireginacarano had been trending for months up to her firing. Then the article tries to state that she still has opportunities because she's gonna be in some Ben Shapiro movie. Like the article brings that up like "don't worry she still has tons of opportunity, because now she is working with Ben Shapiro in a creative endeavor."

Like who has ever had a positive experience working with Ben Shapiro? The guy has zero credibility in any sort of creative sense. Her career is on life support at best. You don't go from having your own Star Wars Disney Plus show to working on a movie with Ben Shapiro and say "yeah my career is doing just fine."

This one especially baffles me, because you'd have to go on record and say that a Ben Shapiro led project holds any value whatsoever. Like it sounds like Gina Carano's career is toast because she couldn't stop posting stupid stuff. I fully support Disney firing her, because she's really that stupid and represents their company poorly. That's still cancel culture though. If there weren't reactions on twitter to what she said and #fireginacarano never trended then I doubt she ever gets fired.

I saw the article.

Just because a bigot gets punished for being a bigot, or someone bounces back from cancellation, it doesn't mean we don't have a culture of villagers with torches and pitchforks ready to burn down whatever they can. It's fun to cancel people and mob rule gives people power. What we're seeing is a kinder, gentler, more tech savvy version of what we've seen for many centuries.

What are the solutions to cancel culture?

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

What are the solutions to cancel culture?

To evaluate what's a valid complaint and what isn't.

There are people who throw fits over stupid things because there are other problems going on in their life and there are people who like to stir the pot. Trolling is a thing too. Instead, there seems to be the mindset that, if one person says something is offense, that makes it offensive.

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

What are the solutions to cancel culture?

There isn't any. People are too f'n stupid to understand context online. America is going to get fucking worked into a Civil War by f'n online trolls.

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CyricZ posted...

I guess Tommy, I have a simple question for you.

"Is cancel culture bad?"

A pretty mixed bag I would say.

The specific example this topic was created for seems like an especially stupid version of cancel culture.

In the case of Gina Carano, she was an especially huge idiot. Disney even tried giving her a mulligan and she stuck to her guns. She got a rare opportunity to prevent her own cancellation and spit in it's face.

I would call Gina Carano moving on to the super promising career of starring in a Ben Shapiro project as a "good" example of cancel culture. Like literally none of her views were based in any sort of reality and she's a complete right wing nutjob.

Kevin Spacey and Harvey Weinstein were both good examples of cancel culture too.

There's also minor examples of cancel culture.

Remember that instance of the white lady in a park who called the cops on some random black guy for doing nothing and the whole thing was videotaped? That white lady lost her job over that. I'd say that is an example of cancel culture doing a good.

I could go on and on with examples of varying levels of "good" and "bad."

Though I would mostly call cancel culture a good thing, but that'd be like 55% good to 45% bad for me. Kind of a rough way for me to quantify how much I personally approve of a concept.

Basically, it's good to hold people accountable and people in the entertainment industry especially need to be in the good graces of the public, but a lot of it is people getting off on the idea of cancelling others and feeling superior.

It's a "good" thing that comes with a lot of baggage to put it succinctly

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FortuneCookie posted...

I saw the article.

Just because a bigot gets punished for being a bigot, or someone bounces back from cancellation, it doesn't mean we don't have a culture of villagers with torches and pitchforks ready to burn down whatever they can. It's fun to cancel people and mob rule gives people power. What we're seeing is a kinder, gentler, more tech savvy version of what we've seen for many centuries.

Oh I agree with you completely.

I'm sorry if that didn't come across in my post. I just really liked your analogy of comparing a lack of belief in cancel culture to "did we really even have winter?"

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while 'cancel culture' has just become a right wing buzzword it is not a great thing that unhinged people on twitter harass and send death threats to people

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TommyG663513 posted...

A pretty mixed bag I would say.

Okay fine, but therein lies a new problem. What to make of those who have wielded the term "cancel culture" as a bad thing?

Because the answer of the rich, powerful, and influential thus far is to essentially take this ability away from people. People who are not rich, powerful, or influential.

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andel posted...

while 'cancel culture' has just become a right wing buzzword it is not a great thing that unhinged people on twitter harass and send death threats to people

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TommyG663513 posted...

Oh I agree with you completely.

I'm sorry if that didn't come across in my post. I just really liked your analogy of comparing a lack of belief in cancel culture to "did we really even have winter?"

Oh, thanks.

FortuneCookie posted...

To evaluate what's a valid complaint and what isn't.

That doesn't sound like sound policy. Or like, a policy at all.

There are people who throw fits over stupid things because there are other problems going on in their life and there are people who like to stir the pot. Trolling is a thing too. Instead, there seems to be the mindset that, if one person says something is offense, that makes it offensive.

Those people aren't going to go away or stop or change just because you tell them to evaluate what a valid complaint is or not. A lot of them are going to tell you that they're correct, and that we should commence the cancelling.

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CyricZ posted...

Accountability. Public shaming. We have words for these things.

Do we need to make up a new term just because the rich, conservative, powerful, and influential are just now feeling that they can be held accountable for things they say and do?

I think it's weird how people conflate the term cancel culture with ring wing ideology

I heard the term for many years before right wing politicians decided to use the term to virtue signal.

I'd say it's a new term in the sense, that pitchfork nation takes on a new form when social media is such a huge source of gasoline for any fire.

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CyricZ posted...

Okay fine, but therein lies a new problem. What to make of those who have wielded the term "cancel culture" as a bad thing?

Because the answer of the rich, powerful, and influential thus far is to essentially take this ability away from people. People who are not rich, powerful, or influential.

Uh yeah I'm not at all in favor of how right wing politicians use the term cancel culture to virtue signal to their base

I'm also not in favor of how left wing people like @hockeybub89 will deny its existence just to play partisan politics, because they don't like how right wing politicians use the term and to be fair, I don't think any sane person should be ok with how right wing politicians use the term. I just think to counter that by saying cancel culture doesn't exist at all is an incredibly bad faith argument to make.

I'm not saying there is an easy solution to this. It doesn't have to be an either or thing.

We can both want people in power held in check, but also see random people harassing people to be a problem. This is like street justice when the court system fails us. Like I'd rather have a court system that convicts people properly, but Id somewhat settle for street justice in certain scenarios. Still, street justice can get pretty crazy too.

Like I'd say the French Revolution is a great example. The monarchy had to go, but then a lot of random people were beheaded by the lynch mob who had nothing to do with the monarchy.

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andel posted...

while 'cancel culture' has just become a right wing buzzword it is not a great thing that unhinged people on twitter harass and send death threats to people

This is a great way of putting it though I still feel there is more nuance to it

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preach tommy

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CyricZ posted...

Okay fine, but therein lies a new problem. What to make of those who have wielded the term "cancel culture" as a bad thing?

Because the answer of the rich, powerful, and influential thus far is to essentially take this ability away from people. People who are not rich, powerful, or influential.

The rich and the powerful are the ones who are essentially immune to getting #cancelled. It's people like Lindsey Ellis who actually have to worry about this garbage.

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cancel culture in the way people think of it now is just a moral panic. Its either a few random fools on Twitter spun into a story by news outlets, or its rich and powerful people facing some semblance of consequences for their actions - and even then ninety nine times out of a hundred they come out fine. Still rich, still powerful, still with a fan base.

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sutree posted...

The rich and the powerful are the ones who are essentially immune to getting #cancelled. It's people like Lindsey Ellis who actually have to worry about this garbage.

And yet it's the rich and powerful that make the biggest stink (using their money and influence) about "being cancelled" even though they've lost of none of their capacity to survive, just their goodwill among others.

And then there are those who aren't rich and powerful but rush to the defense of them if they are "cancelled".

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CyricZ posted...

And yet it's the rich and powerful that make the biggest stink (using their money and influence) about "being cancelled" even though they've lost of none of their capacity to survive, just their goodwill among others.

And then there are those who aren't rich and powerful but rush to the defense of them if they are "cancelled".

Yeah the concept of cancellation can be fairly complex.

It's generally the lesser known or upcoming celebrity types who will get fully cancelled. Shane Gillis is a good example. He still does stand up, but losing SNL was more than a small hit on his career.

Politicians in general are very difficult to cancel, but....

Al Franken got cancelled. Probably the absolute dumbest thing to ever come out of the #metoo movement. A feminist movement that backfired on itself, because people were a little too eager to burn some witches.

Andrew Cuomo should get cancelled, but I'm not sure if he will.

It should go without saying that Ted Cruz should have been cancelled a long time ago and cancellation standards for right wing politicians tend to be very forgiving. That's the benefit when you have the moral compass of an iguana.

But yeah it's also super obvious that right wing politicians use the term cancel culture as a virtue signal, because they have no real policy or political positions. They're their to represent the rich and powerful and convince the many tubes of this country to go along with it. Riling up their base of nonexistent examples of cancel culture like Dr. Seuss and Mr. Potato Head are their best cards right now lol.

Cancel culture gets way more real for comedians especially. There's a lot of gatekeeping for what type of jokes are or aren't allowed. A lot of comedy groups are super fractured over this and comedy is a career where connections are everything so it's easy to see why cancellation is a much bigger threat there.

Aziz Ansari and Louis CK are two examples of comics who got cancelled whose careers are much lesser now. Though their cancellation was for "off the field" issues.


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CyricZ posted...

I feel like not having a solid definition of what cancel culture is hurts you more than helps you.

Its amazing watching someone think being purposely obtuse is a good argument strategy.

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