Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 366: Neeran End to the Tandenic

(+) Yeah! (+)

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To be clear, that was a plan for the reconciliation bill, which would have caused a lot of delays(And unfortunately, the plan ultimately would likely fail). Delays are something no one wants because there are a lot of expiring programs backed up by this bill and aid that is badly needly. As well as the checks which people are going to riot over if they stall any longer.

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I mean, we all know what they need to do, and that is just bring the damn $15 minimum wage to a completely separate vote and then burn down everyone that votes no.

But I also don't have faith anyone is competent to just do this plan.


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My hope is they are going to use the second reconciliation bill(However that works, the whole process is kind of dumb) for the actual fights since there are both political and justifiable reasons to actually push the current bill through as quick as possible.

We also need to destroy the fillibuster of course, but I think I've mentally given up on that fight.

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I am fine with this. I hate saying it. I hate it so much. But this bill does need to be passed quickly.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I am fine with this. I hate saying it. I hate it so much. But this bill does need to be passed quickly.

Frankly, the fact that the bill hasn't passed yet is kind of disgusting. I know there are processes involved, but this is just getting silly.

Reg posted...

Frankly, the fact that the bill hasn't passed yet is kind of disgusting. I know there are processes involved, but this is just getting silly.

So far as I am aware a lot of it is the 15 dollar an hour stuff. But yeah now it should be fast tracked.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I am fine with this. I hate saying it. I hate it so much. But this bill does need to be passed quickly.

This is why I was saying before they just need to stop fucking about with everything else now and just pass this damn bill already. They all would have to know adding everything else, as well-intentioned as it is, will just hold it up way more than necessary.

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If indeed the $15 an hour minimum wage/taxing corporations who don't pay at least that was the thing holding passing the bill up, it is even more ridiculous that they are not including it in the bill when they could. They will never have more leverage to pass those ideas than right now, and if the votes of manchin/sinema etc. were always hard no votes they shouldn't have even bothered to look into including it to begin with. It really does just seem like Biden wanted the cover of saying he tried but the parliamentarian said no, and getting weak cover is absolutely not worth delaying the bill.

It seems a little silly to blame Biden for not reading the minds of Manchin/Sinema to know they weren't going to budge. By that logic, he shouldn't try literally anything they may be against, which is great if you don't even want attempts at change, I guess.

You can't blame Democrats for never trying anything, and then turn around and go "Can't believe they even tried, how dumb of them!" when they actually do.

It's unfortunate it delayed the bill, but c'mon, now

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Has Trump lowered the bar so far that someone has to defend everything this administration does or doesnt do?

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Yes.

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I just think it's silly to go "Can't believe they wasted this time trying for $15 minimum wage!" when it's something that was wanted almost unanimously.

I agree now is the time to move on without it and try something else for it, but to act like they should have just not tried for it from the start is dumb.

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My point was that it was dumb to try to do $15 through this bill if they were always against it, and Biden has been clearly saying the whole time it wouldn't happen, so I wouldn't call it not being able to read their minds, he didn't think they would vote for it. Which means all they did was waste our time to get him the cover of "parliamentarian said no", which is as thin a cover as you can get since you don't have to listen to the parliamentarian. They SHOULD absolutely bring it to a vote as a separate bill just to get everyone on record and make them vote no, so it isn't that I don't want them to try, just that this was a waste of time and the covid relief bill could have already been passed.

I dont think much time was wasted on the minimum wage. Most of the procedural stuff around it would have happened anyway.

At the end of the day, regardless of your take on it, its better to have had $15 minimum wage in the spotlight than not.

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Well the Plan B isn't on Biden - that was Wyman and Bernie's plan. Part of actually fighting for things is that it slows down the process by necessity. I don't think this is Biden's deep cover plan for saying he tried, though you could apply it to the first attempt.

Manchin and Sinema are undoubtedly part of this. Could they have been pressured on the original plan if the parlimentarian had said yes and the Dems didn't have to exert any power to keep it in? Maybe. In that case it would have been worth trying, but there's a lot of unknowns and our government is inherently inefficient so this outcome is expected.

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I know this'll be preaching to the choir, and the people who need to see it won't care, but still, I think it's important to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYdi1bL6s10

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fuming posted...

My point was that it was dumb to try to do $15 through this bill if they were always against it, and Biden has been clearly saying the whole time it wouldn't happen, so I wouldn't call it not being able to read their minds, he didn't think they would vote for it. Which means all they did was waste our time to get him the cover of "parliamentarian said no", which is as thin a cover as you can get since you don't have to listen to the parliamentarian. They SHOULD absolutely bring it to a vote as a separate bill just to get everyone on record and make them vote no, so it isn't that I don't want them to try, just that this was a waste of time and the covid relief bill could have already been passed.

Manchin and Sinema were always a 'no'. It'd be nice if we actually had 2 more democratic senators who were actually liberal. Like if Gideon and Harrison won. Then we wouldn't have to rely on those two to get anything done.

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So in one more "Oh Tulsi" post which will probably be my last since this shit is getting so common it's not even fun anymore, she also went on Glenn Beck and said white supremacists are NOT a problem.

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Stop I am already dead

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Sorry Chris =(

Seriously though these arent jabs at you at all. I just have a special hate spot in my heart for Gabbard and it used to be fun to crack on her

It isnt very fun anymore though since she just completely tore the mask off and is doing stuff like this pretty much every day now

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https://youtu.be/ph3RGXt2vQk

Good Biden story

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

https://youtu.be/ph3RGXt2vQk

Good Biden story

Stuff like this is why I usually let "democrats need to be better" go unchallenged, but I become a grumpy unfun person to deal with when people start saying "both parties are the same".

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Stealing this from the Politics board:

New study looks at the demographics of those who stormed the U.S. Capitol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubNwct0nO4U

Just so everyone doesn't have to watch a video, this is an article written by the same person:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/the-capitol-rioters-arent-like-other-extremists/617895/

I also took the liberty of watching the video. Pape analyzed the 244 people who have been arrested and found that:

-2/3 of the individuals arrested were over the age of 34, compared to groups like the Proud Boys, where most of the group is made up of younger folks.
-Only 13% of the 244 were members of organized militant groups - 87% weren't - which means that we can't simply reduce this event to "organized militant group storms capitol"
-13% were business owners, 27% were from white-collar occupations (no overlap - the 2 are separately classified), and only 9% of them were unemployed.
-60% came from counties that Biden won.
-There's a critical failure of understanding of the political, economic, and social environment - our usual solution of "extremism ends when people get jobs" does not apply here since most of the rioters were gainfully employed and many of them were successful individual who actually had a lot to lose by doing this

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KamikazePotato posted...

-There's a critical failure of understanding of the political, economic, and social environment - our usual solution of "extremism ends when people get jobs" does not apply here since most of the rioters were gainfully employed and many of them were successful individual who actually had a lot to lose by doing this

People will do crazy things when part of a crowd.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Stuff like this is why I usually let "democrats need to be better" go unchallenged, but I become a grumpy unfun person to deal with when people start saying "both parties are the same".

It's no question that Dems are better than Republicans but I just want the conservative propaganda version of the Dems because that's the stigma we have to beat among the voters in the first place anyway so we might as well get to enjoy it after.

https://twitter.com/baseballot/status/1366489883875893255?s=21

gross

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Already preparing for the 'steal' of 2024 I see
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Looks like Sanders/Warren have publicly stated the parlementarian should be ignored. Interesting to see if anyone else comes out in favor of it.

A small handful of House Dems already came out for it but that's not as impactful as the senators at this point

https://twitter.com/RepRoKhanna/status/1366389050597400577?s=19

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I swear this is devolving to I don't like the rules so I'll ignore them.

You know they will be the first to be aghast when republicans take power and ignore rules

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masterplum posted...

I swear this is devolving to I don't like the rules so I'll ignore them.

You know they will be the first to be aghast when republicans take power and ignore rules

They already did that. See not seating a Supreme Court pick for almost a year, and how they themselves fired this position when they disagreed with them.

Fuck the rules.

Also when it comes to bringing people out of poverty, yes 100%, fuck every rule standing in the way. Why do you like Poverty, Plum?

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masterplum posted...

I swear this is devolving to I don't like the rules so I'll ignore them.

You know they will be the first to be aghast when republicans take power and ignore rules

you mean the thing they already did multiple times

why should one side be allowed to ignore the rules, but the other side should have to play nice?

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I think this is more about ignoring norms than rules.

masterplum posted...

I swear this is devolving to I don't like the rules so I'll ignore them.

You know they will be the first to be aghast when republicans take power and ignore rules

lmao my dude, have you even heard of the Republican Party?

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

They already did that. See not seating a Supreme Court pick for almost a year, and how they themselves fired this position when they disagreed with them.

Fuck the rules.

Also when it comes to bringing people out of poverty, yes 100%, fuck every rule standing in the way. Why do you like Poverty, Plum?

^
Made up a rule to not sit a justice then rushed one through at the absolute last second braking the rule they just made up.

As Abraham Lincoln once said fuck the rules only bitches follow the rules now

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I feel like you guys would support dictator bernie sanders over president Trump

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masterplum posted...

I feel like you guys would support dictator bernie sanders over president Trump

What is your standard for dictatorship? Ignoring heavily flawed, anti-democratic rules written into the Constitution by a bunch of dead men?

Anyways yes, bring on Dictator Bernie

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masterplum posted...

I feel like you guys would support dictator bernie sanders over president Trump

Cool deflection, bro.

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Everyone knows that Benevolent Dictatorship is actually the best form of government, it is just really hard to find one of those. But yeah bring on Dictator Bernie over the Fascist for sure.

But also why do you like poverty so much?

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masterplum posted...

I feel like you guys would support dictator bernie sanders over president Trump

Duh.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Duh.

I mean then we are done here. Once we get to that point then the country is dead, and its just going to be a civil war to divide territory.

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masterplum posted...

I mean then we are done here. Once we get to that point then the country is dead, and its just going to be a civil war to divide territory.

Countries are not the borders drawn on a paper map nor words written on a piece of paper. A country is its people, and millions die and starve every FUCKING year because of cruelty you beget. Your voice should be silent on this matter, the blood on your hands will never wash clean no matter how much you refuse to see it. Do not lecture us on what kills a country.

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masterplum posted...

I feel like you guys would support dictator bernie sanders over president Trump

ok Corrik

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Countries are not the borders drawn on a paper map nor words written on a piece of paper. A country is its people, and millions die and starve every FUCKING year because of cruelty you beget. Your voice should be silent on this matter, the blood on your hands will never wash clean no matter how much you refuse to see it. Do not lecture us on what kills a country.

This isnt the French Revolution. We dont have millions of people dying of starvation

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masterplum posted...

I feel like you guys would support dictator bernie sanders over president Trump

To be fair, Trump was a bad enough president that this is a reasonable position. That said, I do worry that most people here would prefer a Sanders dictatorship over any form of elected government.
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masterplum posted...

This isnt the French Revolution. We dont have millions of people dying of starvation

Maybe learn more about the country you say you love so much before saying stupid things. Millions die from other preventable things every year.

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Radical position: dictatorship is in fact bad in all cases!

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Considering what side was literally ready to murder Congress and attempted to do because they refused to accept results of a semi-democratic election (since the EC prevents us from being fully democratic), excuse me if I'm starting to care less and less about these people's ability to "make their voices heard."

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The problem with dictatorship isn't necessarily your specific dictator, its that eventually you will inevitably get a dictator that will abuse the power. Its not a sustainable form of government for the good of people.

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