Current Events > Biden sparks TERF war on twitter with gender discrimination order

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butthole666 01/21/21 5:37:40 PM #101:	TERFs are scum and anything that upsets them is usually 1) good 2) even better for having made them feel bad --- "Kenan & Kel is what made me realize I wasn't racist." ~ NewportBox100s <cite>butthole666 posted [p:949763798] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>TERFs are scum and anything that upsets them is usually 1) good 2) even better for having made them feel bad </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 01/21/21 5:38:20 PM #102:	It's ok if women get hurt if it means I can virtue signal on the internet --- You can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending. -Misattributed to CS Lewis <cite>Squall28 posted [p:949763827] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>It's ok if women get hurt if it means I can virtue signal on the internet </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 01/21/21 5:39:49 PM #103:	butthole666 posted... TERFs are scum and anything that upsets them is usually 1) good 2) even better for having made them feel bad Only a Sith deals in absolutes Terfs being awful isn't a reason to deny basic facts --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:949763895] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>butthole666 posted... </cite> <quote>TERFs are scum and anything that upsets them is usually 1) good 2) even better for having made them feel bad</quote>Only a Sith deals in absolutes Terfs being awful isn't a reason to deny basic facts </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
butthole666 01/21/21 5:40:46 PM #104:	UnfairRepresent posted... Only a Sith deals in absolutes Terfs being awful isn't a reason to deny basic facts Shut the fuck up --- "Kenan & Kel is what made me realize I wasn't racist." ~ NewportBox100s <cite>butthole666 posted [p:949763933] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite> <quote>Only a Sith deals in absolutes Terfs being awful isn't a reason to deny basic facts</quote>Shut the fuck up </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Garreyn 01/21/21 5:43:24 PM #106:	This is fine. Play the SJW game, win the SJW prizes. --- New jack doesn't consider it a blade job. He just considers it busting you the **** open. - JustinRA <cite>Garreyn posted [p:949764024] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>This is fine. Play the SJW game, win the SJW prizes. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Galliumtheone 01/21/21 5:43:52 PM #107:	Well, all I've heard about gender identity since it became a household term is how someone can't be excluded from... whatever... because that's just who they were born to be and who they are, biology be damned. Now it's a problem because transgenders want to compete with the opposite sex in sports? <cite>Galliumtheone posted [p:949764042] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Well, all I've heard about gender identity since it became a household term is how someone can't be excluded from... whatever... because that's just who they were born to be and who they are, biology be damned. Now it's a problem because transgenders want to compete with the opposite sex in sports? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ThePopcornKing 01/21/21 5:46:27 PM #108:	UnfairRepresent posted... Mary Gregory who instantly broke 9 biological female world records in one night with ease As a male, Mary posted the following numbers pre HRT on her Instagram account Squat - 408 Bench - 298 Deadlift 507 Total 1213 Bodyweight - 217 9 months after starting HRT. These numbers were what she got at the meet in question Squat - 314 Bench - 233 Deadlift 424 Total 971 Bodyweight - 179.3 Now that's about a 20% drop in all her lifts after going on HRT, and about a 20% drop in bodyweight. That's to be expected as the body adapts to the new hormone levels. In powerlifting, we use the Wilks coefficient to determine the best lifter across all weight classes. It takes your total, and modifies it based on a mathematical formula to allow you to compare yourself against everyone else. Men and women use different formulas as their physiology is different. Mary's Wilks score using the male data was 337. After 9 months of HRT, when Mary competed in the female division her score jumped up to 399. That's a 62 point jump (a 20% increase) in her abilities compared to her peers in less than a year. So in nine months, on HRT which reduces testosterone, muscle mass etc, Mary had gains the likes of which are only seen in brand new lifters who are still learning how to powerlift. When I compared Mary's results to the database in Open Powerlifting, a website dedicated to recording statistics for all powerlifting federations around the world, here's what I got. In the 40-44 age group, Mary's male ranking was at the 38th percentile. So better than average, but still middle of the pack. Using her numbers as a female, she moved into the 6th percentile. So top 10% in all of women's drug tested powerlifting in that age group. If all things were equal in the HRT process, we should have seen Mary's results put her in the 38th percentile of female lifters, but that clearly did not happen. Once again, I have to stress that neither I, or my federation wants to ban lifters like Mary from competing. In fact one of our core beliefs is that if you can lift a barbell, and you aren't taking PED's, then you have a place with us. But it's very clear based on the numbers provided that Mary received a performance boost from transitioning from a male to a female lifter compared to her peer group. That's not at all fair to the rest of the lifters in that division. tl;dr. She had a massive advantage due to biology Actual peer reviewed science not anecdotal stuff please. Actual studies. --- I only think about having babys when i dont pull out and honestly thats the greatest feeling. - Eskii <cite>ThePopcornKing posted [p:949764140] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite> <quote>Mary Gregory who instantly broke 9 biological female world records in one night with ease As a male, Mary posted the following numbers pre HRT on her Instagram account Squat - 408 Bench - 298 Deadlift 507 Total 1213 Bodyweight - 217 9 months after starting HRT. These numbers were what she got at the meet in question Squat - 314 Bench - 233 Deadlift 424 Total 971 Bodyweight - 179.3 Now that's about a 20% drop in all her lifts after going on HRT, and about a 20% drop in bodyweight. That's to be expected as the body adapts to the new hormone levels. In powerlifting, we use the Wilks coefficient to determine the best lifter across all weight classes. It takes your total, and modifies it based on a mathematical formula to allow you to compare yourself against everyone else. Men and women use different formulas as their physiology is different. Mary's Wilks score using the male data was 337. After 9 months of HRT, when Mary competed in the female division her score jumped up to 399. That's a 62 point jump (a 20% increase) in her abilities compared to her peers in less than a year. So in nine months, on HRT which reduces testosterone, muscle mass etc, Mary had gains the likes of which are only seen in brand new lifters who are still learning how to powerlift. When I compared Mary's results to the database in Open Powerlifting, a website dedicated to recording statistics for all powerlifting federations around the world, here's what I got. In the 40-44 age group, Mary's male ranking was at the 38th percentile. So better than average, but still middle of the pack. Using her numbers as a female, she moved into the 6th percentile. So top 10% in all of women's drug tested powerlifting in that age group. If all things were equal in the HRT process, we should have seen Mary's results put her in the 38th percentile of female lifters, but that clearly did not happen. Once again, I have to stress that neither I, or my federation wants to ban lifters like Mary from competing. In fact one of our core beliefs is that if you can lift a barbell, and you aren't taking PED's, then you have a place with us. But it's very clear based on the numbers provided that Mary received a performance boost from transitioning from a male to a female lifter compared to her peer group. That's not at all fair to the rest of the lifters in that division. tl;dr. She had a massive advantage due to biology</quote> Actual peer reviewed science not anecdotal stuff please. Actual studies. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heavy_D_Forever 01/21/21 5:48:30 PM #109:	So let me see if I understand this correctly. A high school boy could identify as a girl and join the girls golf team. Then get to play from the shortest tees and given their strength advantage probably outdrive all of the opponents by at least 100 yds. (Likely more) They could then go on to obliterate all school records for girls golf and become the most winning athlete in school history. Yeah sure that seems fair. --- E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES <cite>Heavy_D_Forever posted [p:949764214] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>So let me see if I understand this correctly. A high school boy could identify as a girl and join the girls golf team. Then get to play from the shortest tees and given their strength advantage probably outdrive all of the opponents by at least 100 yds. (Likely more) They could then go on to obliterate all school records for girls golf and become the most winning athlete in school history. Yeah sure that seems fair. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 01/21/21 5:48:49 PM #110:	Galliumtheone posted... biology be damned Being trans is biological. Galliumtheone posted... Now it's a problem because transgenders want to compete with the opposite sex in sports? No, they want to compete with their own gender. --- CyricZ <cite>CyricZ posted [p:949764229] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Galliumtheone posted... </cite> <quote>biology be damned</quote>Being trans is biological. Galliumtheone posted... </cite> <quote>Now it's a problem because transgenders want to compete with the opposite sex in sports?</quote>No, they want to compete with their own gender. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 01/21/21 5:49:54 PM #111:	Heavy_D_Forever posted... A high school boy could identify as a girl and join the girls golf team. Then get to play from the shortest tees and given their strength advantage probably outdrive all of the opponents by at least 100 yds. (Likely more) They could then go on to obliterate all school records for girls golf and become the most winning athlete in school history. In a non-existent fantasy world, yes. --- CyricZ <cite>CyricZ posted [p:949764273] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Heavy_D_Forever posted... </cite> <quote>A high school boy could identify as a girl and join the girls golf team. Then get to play from the shortest tees and given their strength advantage probably outdrive all of the opponents by at least 100 yds. (Likely more) They could then go on to obliterate all school records for girls golf and become the most winning athlete in school history.</quote>In a non-existent fantasy world, yes. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kage_53 01/21/21 5:55:26 PM #112:	ThePopcornKing posted... hey man, all you gotta do to back that up is link the science saying after transitioning and being on hormones etc for a substantial amount of time where things like muscle mass and bone density change they still have a significant advantage. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3.pdf Given the maintenance of BMD and the lack of a plau- sible biological mechanism by which testosterone sup- pression might affect skeletal measurements such as bone length and hip width, we conclude that height and skeletal parameters remain unaltered in transgender women, andthat sporting advantage conferred by skeletal size and bone density would be retained despite testosterone reductions compliant with the IOCs current guidelines. This is of particular relevance to sports where height, limb length and handspan are key (e.g. basketball, volleyball, hand- ball) and where high movement efficiency is advantageous. Male bone geometry and density may also provide pro- tection against some sport-related injuriesfor example, males have a lower incidence of knee injuries, often attrib- uted to low quadriceps (Q) angle conferred by a narrow pelvic girdle. The pioneer work by Gooren and colleagues, published in part in 1999 [61] and in full in 2004 [62], reported the effects of 1 and 3 years of testosterone suppression and estrogen supplementation in 19 transgender women (age 1837 years). After the first year of therapy, testoster- one levels were reduced to 1 nmol/L, well within typical female reference ranges, and remained low throughout the study course. As determined by MRI, thigh muscle area had decreased by 9% from baseline measurement. After 3 years, thigh muscle area had decreased by a further 3% from baseline measurement (total loss of 12% over 3 years of treatment). However, when compared with the baseline measurement of thigh muscle area in transgender men (who are born female and experience female puberty), transgender women retained significantly higher thigh muscle size. The final thigh muscle area, after three years of testosterone sup- pression, was 13% larger in transwomen than in the transmen at baseline (p < 0.05). The authors concluded that testosterone suppression in transgender women does not reverse muscle size to female levels <cite>kage_53 posted [p:949764449] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>ThePopcornKing posted... </cite> <quote>hey man, all you gotta do to back that up is link the science saying after transitioning and being on hormones etc for a substantial amount of time where things like muscle mass and bone density change they still have a significant advantage.</quote> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3.pdf Given the maintenance of BMD and the lack of a plau- sible biological mechanism by which testosterone sup- pression might affect skeletal measurements such as bone length and hip width, we conclude that height and skeletal parameters remain unaltered in transgender women, andthat sporting advantage conferred by skeletal size and bone density would be retained despite testosterone reductions compliant with the IOCs current guidelines. This is of particular relevance to sports where height, limb length and handspan are key (e.g. basketball, volleyball, hand- ball) and where high movement efficiency is advantageous. Male bone geometry and density may also provide pro- tection against some sport-related injuriesfor example, males have a lower incidence of knee injuries, often attrib- uted to low quadriceps (Q) angle conferred by a narrow pelvic girdle. The pioneer work by Gooren and colleagues, published in part in 1999 [61] and in full in 2004 [62], reported the effects of 1 and 3 years of testosterone suppression and estrogen supplementation in 19 transgender women (age 1837 years). After the first year of therapy, testoster- one levels were reduced to 1 nmol/L, well within typical female reference ranges, and remained low throughout the study course. As determined by MRI, thigh muscle area had decreased by 9% from baseline measurement. After 3 years, thigh muscle area had decreased by a further 3% from baseline measurement (total loss of 12% over 3 years of treatment). However, when compared with the baseline measurement of thigh muscle area in transgender men (who are born female and experience female puberty), transgender women retained significantly higher thigh muscle size. The final thigh muscle area, after three years of testosterone sup- pression, was 13% larger in transwomen than in the transmen at baseline (p < 0.05). The authors concluded that testosterone suppression in transgender women does not reverse muscle size to female levels </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 01/21/21 5:55:46 PM #113:	Heavy_D_Forever posted... So let me see if I understand this correctly. A high school boy could identify as a girl and join the girls golf team. Then get to play from the shortest tees and given their strength advantage probably outdrive all of the opponents by at least 100 yds. (Likely more) They could then go on to obliterate all school records for girls golf and become the most winning athlete in school history. Yeah sure that seems fair. It's been done in other sports already. --- You can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending. -Misattributed to CS Lewis <cite>Squall28 posted [p:949764453] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Heavy_D_Forever posted... </cite> <quote>So let me see if I understand this correctly. A high school boy could identify as a girl and join the girls golf team. Then get to play from the shortest tees and given their strength advantage probably outdrive all of the opponents by at least 100 yds. (Likely more) They could then go on to obliterate all school records for girls golf and become the most winning athlete in school history. Yeah sure that seems fair.</quote> It's been done in other sports already. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 01/21/21 5:56:48 PM #115:	ThePopcornKing posted... Actual peer reviewed science not anecdotal stuff please. Actual studies. 1. Thats not anecdotal Actual world records were overturned https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3 We have shown that under testosterone suppression regimes typically used in clinical settings, and which comfortably exceed the requirements of sports federations for inclusion of transgender women in female sports categories by reducing testosterone levels to well below the upper tolerated limit, evidence for loss of the male performance advantage, established by testosterone at puberty and translating in elite athletes to a 1050% performance advantage, is lacking. Rather, the data show that strength, lean body mass, muscle size and bone density are only trivially affected. The reductions observed in muscle mass, size, and strength are very small compared to the baseline differences between males and females in these variables, and thus, there are major performance and safety implications in sports where these attributes are competitively significant. These data significantly undermine the delivery of fairness and safety presumed by the criteria set out in transgender inclusion policies, particularly given the stated prioritization of fairness as an overriding objective (for the IOC). If those policies are intended to preserve fairness, inclusion and the safety of biologically female athletes, sporting organizations may need to reassess their policies regarding inclusion of transgender women. wonder what your excuse to ignore this one will be Why do you think not 1 female athlete can make it in the NFL , MLB, NBA etc? Biology sucks --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:949764484] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>ThePopcornKing posted... </cite> <quote>Actual peer reviewed science not anecdotal stuff please. Actual studies.</quote>1. Thats not anecdotal Actual world records were overturned https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3 We have shown that under testosterone suppression regimes typically used in clinical settings, and which comfortably exceed the requirements of sports federations for inclusion of transgender women in female sports categories by reducing testosterone levels to well below the upper tolerated limit, evidence for loss of the male performance advantage, established by testosterone at puberty and translating in elite athletes to a 1050% performance advantage, is lacking. Rather, the data show that strength, lean body mass, muscle size and bone density are only trivially affected. The reductions observed in muscle mass, size, and strength are very small compared to the baseline differences between males and females in these variables, and thus, there are major performance and safety implications in sports where these attributes are competitively significant. These data significantly undermine the delivery of fairness and safety presumed by the criteria set out in transgender inclusion policies, particularly given the stated prioritization of fairness as an overriding objective (for the IOC). If those policies are intended to preserve fairness, inclusion and the safety of biologically female athletes, sporting organizations may need to reassess their policies regarding inclusion of transgender women. wonder what your excuse to ignore this one will be Why do you think not 1 female athlete can make it in the NFL , MLB, NBA etc? Biology sucks </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jason19192 01/21/21 5:58:57 PM #116:	kage_53 posted... https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3.pdf Given the maintenance of BMD and the lack of a plau- sible biological mechanism by which testosterone sup- pression might affect skeletal measurements such as bone length and hip width, we conclude that height and skeletal parameters remain unaltered in transgender women, andthat sporting advantage conferred by skeletal size and bone density would be retained despite testosterone reductions compliant with the IOCs current guidelines. This is of particular relevance to sports where height, limb length and handspan are key (e.g. basketball, volleyball, hand- ball) and where high movement efficiency is advantageous. Male bone geometry and density may also provide pro- tection against some sport-related injuriesfor example, males have a lower incidence of knee injuries, often attrib- uted to low quadriceps (Q) angle conferred by a narrow pelvic girdle. The pioneer work by Gooren and colleagues, published in part in 1999 [61] and in full in 2004 [62], reported the effects of 1 and 3 years of testosterone suppression and estrogen supplementation in 19 transgender women (age 1837 years). After the first year of therapy, testoster- one levels were reduced to 1 nmol/L, well within typical female reference ranges, and remained low throughout the study course. As determined by MRI, thigh muscle area had decreased by 9% from baseline measurement. After 3 years, thigh muscle area had decreased by a further 3% from baseline measurement (total loss of 12% over 3 years of treatment). However, when compared with the baseline measurement of thigh muscle area in transgender men (who are born female and experience female puberty), transgender women retained significantly higher thigh muscle size. The final thigh muscle area, after three years of testosterone sup- pression, was 13% larger in transwomen than in the transmen at baseline (p < 0.05). The authors concluded that testosterone suppression in transgender women does not reverse muscle size to female levels The one who made the study has been transphobic for years before doing that study, nice try though. <cite>jason19192 posted [p:949764565] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>kage_53 posted... </cite> <quote>https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3.pdf Given the maintenance of BMD and the lack of a plau- sible biological mechanism by which testosterone sup- pression might affect skeletal measurements such as bone length and hip width, we conclude that height and skeletal parameters remain unaltered in transgender women, andthat sporting advantage conferred by skeletal size and bone density would be retained despite testosterone reductions compliant with the IOCs current guidelines. This is of particular relevance to sports where height, limb length and handspan are key (e.g. basketball, volleyball, hand- ball) and where high movement efficiency is advantageous. Male bone geometry and density may also provide pro- tection against some sport-related injuriesfor example, males have a lower incidence of knee injuries, often attrib- uted to low quadriceps (Q) angle conferred by a narrow pelvic girdle. The pioneer work by Gooren and colleagues, published in part in 1999 [61] and in full in 2004 [62], reported the effects of 1 and 3 years of testosterone suppression and estrogen supplementation in 19 transgender women (age 1837 years). After the first year of therapy, testoster- one levels were reduced to 1 nmol/L, well within typical female reference ranges, and remained low throughout the study course. As determined by MRI, thigh muscle area had decreased by 9% from baseline measurement. After 3 years, thigh muscle area had decreased by a further 3% from baseline measurement (total loss of 12% over 3 years of treatment). However, when compared with the baseline measurement of thigh muscle area in transgender men (who are born female and experience female puberty), transgender women retained significantly higher thigh muscle size. The final thigh muscle area, after three years of testosterone sup- pression, was 13% larger in transwomen than in the transmen at baseline (p < 0.05). The authors concluded that testosterone suppression in transgender women does not reverse muscle size to female levels</quote>The one who made the study has been transphobic for years before doing that study, nice try though. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
voldothegr8 01/21/21 5:59:10 PM #117:	Heavy_D_Forever posted... So let me see if I understand this correctly. A high school boy could identify as a girl and join the girls golf team. Then get to play from the shortest tees and given their strength advantage probably outdrive all of the opponents by at least 100 yds. (Likely more) They could then go on to obliterate all school records for girls golf and become the most winning athlete in school history. Yeah sure that seems fair. Look at tennis, the Williams sisters entering their prime got demolished by the men's rank 200 who was a drunkard on his way to retirement. He literally had drinks on a golf course before the match. Now imagine he identified as a woman and switched to the women's side. --- Oda break tracker 2021- 0 (2) \| THE Ohio State: 7-0 \| Las Vegas Raiders: 8-8 <cite>voldothegr8 posted [p:949764574] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Heavy_D_Forever posted...</cite> <quote>So let me see if I understand this correctly. A high school boy could identify as a girl and join the girls golf team. Then get to play from the shortest tees and given their strength advantage probably outdrive all of the opponents by at least 100 yds. (Likely more) They could then go on to obliterate all school records for girls golf and become the most winning athlete in school history. Yeah sure that seems fair. </quote> Look at tennis, the Williams sisters entering their prime got demolished by the men's rank 200 who was a drunkard on his way to retirement. He literally had drinks on a golf course before the match. Now imagine he identified as a woman and switched to the women's side.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 01/21/21 5:59:18 PM #118:	Like free tip if you're gonna come up with fantasy doom scenarios involving trans people. Don't assume that everyone's brains will fall out of their head and allow a bad faith actor to dominate women's sports just because you think everyone (besides yourself of course) is as smart as the cast of South Park. --- CyricZ <cite>CyricZ posted [p:949764580] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Like free tip if you're gonna come up with fantasy doom scenarios involving trans people. Don't assume that everyone's brains will fall out of their head and allow a bad faith actor to dominate women's sports just because you think everyone (besides yourself of course) is as smart as the cast of South Park. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 01/21/21 6:00:26 PM #119:	jason19192 posted... The one who made the study has been transphobic oh for Gods sake You're just going to deny all facts aren't you? You ignore all arguments, go "Post evidence " then ignore all evidence it's like talking to an anti vaxxer --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:949764619] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>jason19192 posted... </cite> <quote>The one who made the study has been transphobic</quote>oh for Gods sake You're just going to deny all facts aren't you? You ignore all arguments, go "Post evidence " then ignore all evidence it's like talking to an anti vaxxer </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 01/21/21 6:03:00 PM #120:	CyricZ posted... Like free tip if you're gonna come up with fantasy doom scenarios involving trans people. Don't assume that everyone's brains will fall out of their head and allow a bad faith actor to dominate women's sports just because you think everyone (besides yourself of course) is as smart as the cast of South Park. Mary Gregory wasn't a bad faith actor, wasn't fictional, dominated a womens sporting event and the decision to not hold her world records remains highly controversial to this day These "fantasy scenarios " have occured Theres 2 things you have to a acknowledge 1. Biology sucks 2 . You can't ignore it --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:949764717] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>CyricZ posted... </cite> <quote>Like free tip if you're gonna come up with fantasy doom scenarios involving trans people. Don't assume that everyone's brains will fall out of their head and allow a bad faith actor to dominate women's sports just because you think everyone (besides yourself of course) is as smart as the cast of South Park.</quote>Mary Gregory wasn't a bad faith actor, wasn't fictional, dominated a womens sporting event and the decision to not hold her world records remains highly controversial to this day These "fantasy scenarios " have occured Theres 2 things you have to a acknowledge 1. Biology sucks 2 . You can't ignore it </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dreepapult 01/21/21 6:04:31 PM #121:	Popcorn.jpg --- Entropy happens <cite>Dreepapult posted [p:949764761] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Popcorn.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JoeDangIt 01/21/21 6:06:35 PM #122:	UnfairRepresent posted... Again The "Male" leagues aren't segregated in the rules. Women biologically just can't compete Only the womens leagues are segregated and they wouldn't exist if they weren't Aren't boxing and other fighting sports segregated by weight? That's what gave me the idea and it seems to work pretty well. <cite>JoeDangIt posted [p:949764832] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite> <quote>Again The "Male" leagues aren't segregated in the rules. Women biologically just can't compete Only the womens leagues are segregated and they wouldn't exist if they weren't</quote>Aren't boxing and other fighting sports segregated by weight? That's what gave me the idea and it seems to work pretty well. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heavy_D_Forever 01/21/21 6:07:02 PM #123:	voldothegr8 posted... Look at tennis, the Williams sisters entering their prime got demolished by the men's rank 200 who was a drunkard on his way to retirement. He literally had drinks on a golf course before the match. Now imagine he identified as a woman and switched to the women's side. I totally forgot about that. Also relating to golf is the fact that women can and have tried out for the PGA Tour, but they can't score well enough against Men to make the cut. If any of those Male Pros decide to change gender and play on the Womens PGA Tour they would be dominating. --- E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES <cite>Heavy_D_Forever posted [p:949764852] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>voldothegr8 posted... </cite> <quote>Look at tennis, the Williams sisters entering their prime got demolished by the men's rank 200 who was a drunkard on his way to retirement. He literally had drinks on a golf course before the match. Now imagine he identified as a woman and switched to the women's side.</quote>I totally forgot about that. Also relating to golf is the fact that women can and have tried out for the PGA Tour, but they can't score well enough against Men to make the cut. If any of those Male Pros decide to change gender and play on the Womens PGA Tour they would be dominating. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 01/21/21 6:07:43 PM #124:	Like I can't see every post in this topic for incredibly mysterious reasons but I got this funny feeling that that picture from that South Park episode has already been posted. --- CyricZ <cite>CyricZ posted [p:949764876] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Like I can't see every post in this topic for incredibly mysterious reasons but I got this funny feeling that that picture from that South Park episode has already been posted. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 01/21/21 6:08:58 PM #125:	JoeDangIt posted... Aren't boxing and other fighting sports segregated by weight? That's what gave me the idea and it seems to work pretty well. No 135 pound pro boxer girl can beat a 135 pound male pro boxer I think a 115 pound male boxer would beat a 150 pound female one --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:949764918] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>JoeDangIt posted... </cite> <quote>Aren't boxing and other fighting sports segregated by weight? That's what gave me the idea and it seems to work pretty well.</quote>No 135 pound pro boxer girl can beat a 135 pound male pro boxer I think a 115 pound male boxer would beat a 150 pound female one </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jon1012 01/21/21 6:26:16 PM #126:	ManicPlumber77 posted... Why? Why what? Why doesnt it matter that much to me? --- We are Borg. <cite>jon1012 posted [p:949765529] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>ManicPlumber77 posted... </cite> <quote>Why?</quote>Why what? Why doesnt it matter that much to me? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Beefbud 01/21/21 6:26:51 PM #127:	shockthemonkey posted... Hello random account Ive never seen here before, Im very convinced that you give a shit about womens sports I don't think having an interest in women's sports is a prerequisite for the conversation, nor is attacking a person who asks a genuine question a good look --- Backlog: http://backloggery.com/melatonin Music: https://zplan.bandcamp.com/ <cite>Beefbud posted [p:949765544] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>shockthemonkey posted... </cite> <quote>Hello random account Ive never seen here before, Im very convinced that you give a shit about womens sports</quote> I don't think having an interest in women's sports is a prerequisite for the conversation, nor is attacking a person who asks a genuine question a good look </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Galliumtheone 01/21/21 6:31:50 PM #128:	CyricZ posted... No, they want to compete with their own gender. I say let them if we're not supposed to discriminate against them at all. I'm all for full inclusion. <cite>Galliumtheone posted [p:949765732] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>CyricZ posted... </cite> <quote>No, they want to compete with their own gender.</quote> I say let them if we're not supposed to discriminate against them at all. I'm all for full inclusion. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 01/21/21 6:43:33 PM #129:	If we don't want gender discrimination in sport then we need to do away with gender discrimination altogether. Let's not have male/female categories at all. Problem solved. Everyone can compete in one category. Sounds good right? --- CE's Resident Scotsman. https://imgur.com/ILz2ZbV <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:949766120] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>If we don't want gender discrimination in sport then we need to do away with gender discrimination altogether. Let's not have male/female categories at all. Problem solved. Everyone can compete in one category. Sounds good right? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 01/21/21 6:53:38 PM #130:	pinky0926 posted... If we don't want gender discrimination in sport then we need to do away with gender discrimination altogether. Let's not have male/female categories at all. Problem solved. Everyone can compete in one category. Sounds good right? Again The "Male" leagues aren't segregated in the rules. Women biologically just can't compete Only the womens leagues are segregated and they wouldn't exist if they weren't --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:949766502] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>If we don't want gender discrimination in sport then we need to do away with gender discrimination altogether. Let's not have male/female categories at all. Problem solved. Everyone can compete in one category. Sounds good right?</quote> Again The "Male" leagues aren't segregated in the rules. Women biologically just can't compete Only the womens leagues are segregated and they wouldn't exist if they weren't </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#131	Post #131 was unavailable or deleted.
Dathrowed1 01/21/21 7:02:45 PM #132:	pinky0926 posted... If we don't want gender discrimination in sport then we need to do away with gender discrimination altogether. Let's not have male/female categories at all. Problem solved. Everyone can compete in one category. Sounds good right? Yes Also please advocate for the descheduling of Androgens as controlled substances --- sig <cite>Dathrowed1 posted [p:949766871] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>If we don't want gender discrimination in sport then we need to do away with gender discrimination altogether. Let's not have male/female categories at all. Problem solved. Everyone can compete in one category. Sounds good right?</quote>Yes Also please advocate for the descheduling of Androgens as controlled substances </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Galliumtheone 01/21/21 7:09:00 PM #133:	pinky0926 posted... If we don't want gender discrimination in sport then we need to do away with gender discrimination altogether. Let's not have male/female categories at all. Problem solved. Everyone can compete in one category. Sounds good right? Sounds good to me. I'll watch. <cite>Galliumtheone posted [p:949767082] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>If we don't want gender discrimination in sport then we need to do away with gender discrimination altogether. Let's not have male/female categories at all. Problem solved. Everyone can compete in one category. Sounds good right?</quote> Sounds good to me. I'll watch. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WizardPowers 01/21/21 7:16:09 PM #134:	Screwing over cis women for those woke points Imagine finding a way of making women's sports even worse lmao --- https://imgur.com/FS3aeNW https://imgur.com/Hy9IDHK <cite>WizardPowers posted [p:949767351] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Screwing over cis women for those woke points Imagine finding a way of making women's sports even worse lmao </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gwynevere 01/21/21 7:18:08 PM #135:	I wish people would stop pushing the myth that trans women have an advantage over cis women in sports as some irrefutable fact. It's still something that is being debated and studied. That is not an "undeniable fact" --- A hunter is a hunter...even in a dream <cite>Gwynevere posted [p:949767420] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>I wish people would stop pushing the myth that trans women have an advantage over cis women in sports as some irrefutable fact. It's still something that is being debated and studied. That is not an "undeniable fact" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 01/21/21 7:22:56 PM #136:	Gwynevere posted... I wish people would stop pushing the myth that trans women have an advantage over cis women in sports as some irrefutable fact. It's still something that is being debated and studied. That is not an "undeniable fact" Depends how you ask the question. Is there a great deal of data to show that trans athletes are dominating cis women in professional sports? No, there just aren't enough trans athletes to meaningfully show this in any good big data kind of way. On the other hand, is there a great deal of good science that shows the performance benefits of androgenisation? Yes. Do we know about the physiological performance gap that puberty causes between males and females? Yes. Can we satisfactorily explain the characteristics of how testosterone affects androgenisation? Yes. Do the effects of androgenisation completely disappear when someone transitions? No. The question is not and has never been "is there an advantage". The question is more like "how big is the gap, how much is it mitigated by transitioning, and how can we quantify such a thing when we don't have a single useful index for "maleness" or "femaleness" like we do for say, insulin?" --- CE's Resident Scotsman. https://imgur.com/ILz2ZbV <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:949767575] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Gwynevere posted... </cite> <quote>I wish people would stop pushing the myth that trans women have an advantage over cis women in sports as some irrefutable fact. It's still something that is being debated and studied. That is not an "undeniable fact"</quote> Depends how you ask the question. Is there a great deal of data to show that trans athletes are dominating cis women in professional sports? No, there just aren't enough trans athletes to meaningfully show this in any good big data kind of way. On the other hand, is there a great deal of good science that shows the performance benefits of androgenisation? Yes. Do we know about the physiological performance gap that puberty causes between males and females? Yes. Can we satisfactorily explain the characteristics of how testosterone affects androgenisation? Yes. Do the effects of androgenisation completely disappear when someone transitions? No. The question is not and has never been "is there an advantage". The question is more like "how big is the gap, how much is it mitigated by transitioning, and how can we quantify such a thing when we don't have a single useful index for "maleness" or "femaleness" like we do for say, insulin?" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 01/21/21 7:37:27 PM #137:	May as well get the hot takes out of the way: Does the president even have the authority to do this via an executive order? Can we just ratify the goddamn ERA already? "Equality! ...except for reasons I don't like" is a bit of a disingenuous position. WNBA games will finally be worth watching now. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:949768079] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>May as well get the hot takes out of the way: Does the president even have the authority to do this via an executive order?Can we just ratify the goddamn ERA already?"Equality! ...except for reasons I don't like" is a bit of a disingenuous position.WNBA games will finally be worth watching now.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 01/21/21 7:39:14 PM #138:	WizardPowers posted... Screwing over cis women for those woke points Imagine finding a way of making women's sports even worse lmao Rules for all women or no women Why is no one ever crying over the disadvantage trans men might have against cis men? --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:949768131] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>WizardPowers posted... </cite> <quote>Screwing over cis women for those woke points Imagine finding a way of making women's sports even worse lmao</quote>Rules for all women or no women Why is no one ever crying over the disadvantage trans men might have against cis men? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 01/21/21 7:41:09 PM #139:	Gwynevere posted... I wish people would stop pushing the myth that trans women have an advantage over cis women in sports as some irrefutable fact. It's still something that is being debated and studied. That is not an "undeniable fact" It is an undeniable fact, the only "debate " is from people intentionally not looking at the evidence A lot of which has been flat our stated in this topic and you ignore it The NFL, NBA, MLB, Soccer etc all allow women to compete in the "men's league" not a single female athlete can. Every study recorded shows men on average are taller and stronger than women Studies into the effects of hormone therapy and transition treatments have shown that the effect on hormones Is not absolute and the effect on bone density muscle mass , size and strength are negotiable A 38th percentile male weight lifter effortlessly broke womens world records after transitioning with hormone therapy You cannot just ignore these facts, cherry pick some story about a transgender woman coming 7th in a 10 person race and then declare the juries out thats not how this works You can't just ignore biology because it sucks It does suck but it's still there, its real --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:949768198] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Gwynevere posted... </cite> <quote>I wish people would stop pushing the myth that trans women have an advantage over cis women in sports as some irrefutable fact. It's still something that is being debated and studied. That is not an "undeniable fact"</quote>It is an undeniable fact, the only "debate " is from people intentionally not looking at the evidence A lot of which has been flat our stated in this topic and you ignore it The NFL, NBA, MLB, Soccer etc all allow women to compete in the "men's league" not a single female athlete can. Every study recorded shows men on average are taller and stronger than women Studies into the effects of hormone therapy and transition treatments have shown that the effect on hormones Is not absolute and the effect on bone density muscle mass , size and strength are negotiable A 38th percentile male weight lifter effortlessly broke womens world records after transitioning with hormone therapy You cannot just ignore these facts, cherry pick some story about a transgender woman coming 7th in a 10 person race and then declare the juries out thats not how this works You can't just ignore biology because it sucks It does suck but it's still there, its real </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TommyG663513 01/21/21 7:43:08 PM #140:	People who want trans women to compete in women leagues likely don't follow sports at all. Like I'm somewhat for the idea, but really only because trans people are so few and I feel a real life experiment is the only way we are really gonna know the real answer here. People who think there is a zero percent chance that trans women could have an unfair advantage over cis women need to start off by talking about what sports they've competed in and what sports they follow. --- just tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156 <cite>TommyG663513 posted [p:949768255] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>People who want trans women to compete in women leagues likely don't follow sports at all. Like I'm somewhat for the idea, but really only because trans people are so few and I feel a real life experiment is the only way we are really gonna know the real answer here. People who think there is a zero percent chance that trans women could have an unfair advantage over cis women need to start off by talking about what sports they've competed in and what sports they follow. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ryangrad 01/21/21 7:43:20 PM #141:	"Cherry picking is fine for proving my point, but bad when proving your point!" --- https://imgur.com/v3SzL0d https://imgur.com/n8MtRqd <cite>Ryangrad posted [p:949768263] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>"Cherry picking is fine for proving my point, but bad when proving your point!" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TommyG663513 01/21/21 7:44:32 PM #142:	hockeybub89 posted... Rules for all women or no women Why is no one ever crying over the disadvantage trans men might have against cis men? Because it is a disadvantage. Did you really need me to answer that for you? --- just tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156 <cite>TommyG663513 posted [p:949768299] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>hockeybub89 posted... </cite> <quote>Rules for all women or no women Why is no one ever crying over the disadvantage trans men might have against cis men?</quote> Because it is a disadvantage. Did you really need me to answer that for you? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 01/21/21 7:50:02 PM #143:	The most accepting we are of trans people, the more they will transition earlier and go through the "correct" puberty, heavily reducing advantages. Also, trans women do not make up a huge population, so the amount that are both interested in competitive sports and not transitioning until adulthood (or ever) has to be infinitesimal. A good amount of worry seems to amount to trans panic and a fear of conmen --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:949768458] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>The most accepting we are of trans people, the more they will transition earlier and go through the "correct" puberty, heavily reducing advantages. Also, trans women do not make up a huge population, so the amount that are both interested in competitive sports and not transitioning until adulthood (or ever) has to be infinitesimal. A good amount of worry seems to amount to trans panic and a fear of conmen </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 01/21/21 7:51:36 PM #144:	TommyG663513 posted... Because it is a disadvantage. Did you really need me to answer that for you? But shouldn't we want to protect the disadvantaged? Especially if we say they're "actually" women? Should we protect trans boys in high school by making them play with girls? --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:949768500] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>TommyG663513 posted... </cite> <quote>Because it is a disadvantage. Did you really need me to answer that for you?</quote>But shouldn't we want to protect the disadvantaged? Especially if we say they're "actually" women? Should we protect trans boys in high school by making them play with girls? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TommyG663513 01/21/21 7:54:18 PM #145:	hockeybub89 posted... The most accepting we are of trans people, the more they will transition earlier and go through the "correct" puberty, heavily reducing advantages. Also, trans women do not make up a huge population, so the amount that are both interested in competitive sports and not transitioning until adulthood (or ever) has to be infinitesimal. A good amount of worry seems to amount to trans panic and a fear of conmen Ok then So what if trans women do end up dominating on a somewhat large scale? Will you humor this what if scenario or deny that it is even a possibility? The point that I'm trying to make here is that a good portion of the argument here on either side is just theoretical. --- just tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156 <cite>TommyG663513 posted [p:949768595] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>hockeybub89 posted... </cite> <quote>The most accepting we are of trans people, the more they will transition earlier and go through the "correct" puberty, heavily reducing advantages. Also, trans women do not make up a huge population, so the amount that are both interested in competitive sports and not transitioning until adulthood (or ever) has to be infinitesimal. A good amount of worry seems to amount to trans panic and a fear of conmen</quote> Ok then So what if trans women do end up dominating on a somewhat large scale? Will you humor this what if scenario or deny that it is even a possibility? The point that I'm trying to make here is that a good portion of the argument here on either side is just theoretical. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 01/21/21 7:55:15 PM #146:	Ryangrad posted... "Cherry picking is fine for proving my point, but bad when proving your point!" 1. I'm not cherry picking. I'm using common indisputable data , hence why you ran away from it so cowardly 2. When the question is "do transgender women have an unfair advantage over biological women" data that proves they do, even when Cherry Picked answers the question. If someone asks "Do aliens live in wardrobes" and opens 3 separate wardrobes to find aliens living inside , you opening a 4th and finding no alien doesnt mean the answer to the question is now open again 3. it speaks volumes that you and everyone advocating for the end of womens sports segregation can't actually argue a point, just parade weird evasions This shouldn't be a left vs right issue. This is undeniable fact and acknowledging basic biology is not prejudice --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:949768622] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>Ryangrad posted... </cite> <quote>"Cherry picking is fine for proving my point, but bad when proving your point!"</quote>1. I'm not cherry picking. I'm using common indisputable data , hence why you ran away from it so cowardly 2. When the question is "do transgender women have an unfair advantage over biological women" data that proves they do, even when Cherry Picked answers the question. If someone asks "Do aliens live in wardrobes" and opens 3 separate wardrobes to find aliens living inside , you opening a 4th and finding no alien doesnt mean the answer to the question is now open again 3. it speaks volumes that you and everyone advocating for the end of womens sports segregation can't actually argue a point, just parade weird evasions This shouldn't be a left vs right issue. This is undeniable fact and acknowledging basic biology is not prejudice </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TommyG663513 01/21/21 7:55:50 PM #147:	hockeybub89 posted... But shouldn't we want to protect the disadvantaged? Especially if we say they're "actually" women? Should we protect trans boys in high school by making them play with girls? So can you make an argument in good faith or are you just going to make weird straw man arguments? Like I get wanting to pick the "progressive" side, but you need to acknowledge that there is way more nuance here than you are giving it credit. --- just tell them all your base doesn't belong to us because we were getting stoned...they'll understand-Ken156 <cite>TommyG663513 posted [p:949768645] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>hockeybub89 posted... </cite> <quote>But shouldn't we want to protect the disadvantaged? Especially if we say they're "actually" women? Should we protect trans boys in high school by making them play with girls?</quote> So can you make an argument in good faith or are you just going to make weird straw man arguments? Like I get wanting to pick the "progressive" side, but you need to acknowledge that there is way more nuance here than you are giving it credit. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 01/21/21 7:59:35 PM #148:	TommyG663513 posted... Like I get wanting to pick the "progressive" side, I think this is the problem People want to be "progressive " and on "the right side of history " so badly that ignore facts they find inconvenient A business firing a dude for being trans is fucked An insurance company not covering a dude because he is trans is fucked A transgender girl effortlessly breaking a slew of female world records overnight because her biologically male body is physically superior is fucked Holding these opinions is sensible and not contradictory Physicality and biology is not a social construct, gender is --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:949768749] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>TommyG663513 posted... </cite> <quote>Like I get wanting to pick the "progressive" side,</quote>I think this is the problem People want to be "progressive " and on "the right side of history " so badly that ignore facts they find inconvenient A business firing a dude for being trans is fucked An insurance company not covering a dude because he is trans is fucked A transgender girl effortlessly breaking a slew of female world records overnight because her biologically male body is physically superior is fucked Holding these opinions is sensible and not contradictory Physicality and biology is not a social construct, gender is </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MARKINGRAM22 01/21/21 8:06:58 PM #149:	ManicPlumber77 posted... Lol, hormone therapy makes you lose muscle mass at a rapid rate, Get a basic understanding of biochem, noob. You are insane if you think hormone therapy gets rid of all physical advantages of being a man physically. <cite>MARKINGRAM22 posted [p:949769026] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>ManicPlumber77 posted... </cite> <quote>Lol, hormone therapy makes you lose muscle mass at a rapid rate, Get a basic understanding of biochem, noob.</quote>You are insane if you think hormone therapy gets rid of all physical advantages of being a man physically. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 01/21/21 8:11:20 PM #150:	TommyG663513 posted... So can you make an argument in good faith or are you just going to make weird straw man arguments? Like I get wanting to pick the "progressive" side, but you need to acknowledge that there is way more nuance here than you are giving it credit. I do think trans men and women should have to prove themselves in some way. Though I love sports, they're still just sports at the end of the day. I'm not going to overly worry about a handful of scummy real or fake trans people ruining "muh sanctity". I think we can easily iron issues out. This all really goes back to societal acceptance of the trans community. We all know a lot of the loud voices here are people that simply don't believe transgenderism is real. Painting them as crazy perverts and grifters is what they'll do whether or not the topic is sports. It's weird that people are doomsaying while also calling the issue nuanced and complicated. The latter implies we have yet to figure out a solution. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:949769158] in Biden spar... [t:79252066]...</cite> <quote>TommyG663513 posted... </cite> <quote>So can you make an argument in good faith or are you just going to make weird straw man arguments? Like I get wanting to pick the "progressive" side, but you need to acknowledge that there is way more nuance here than you are giving it credit.</quote>I do think trans men and women should have to prove themselves in some way. Though I love sports, they're still just sports at the end of the day. I'm not going to overly worry about a handful of scummy real or fake trans people ruining "muh sanctity". I think we can easily iron issues out. This all really goes back to societal acceptance of the trans community. We all know a lot of the loud voices here are people that simply don't believe transgenderism is real. Painting them as crazy perverts and grifters is what they'll do whether or not the topic is sports. It's weird that people are doomsaying while also calling the issue nuanced and complicated. The latter implies we have yet to figure out a solution. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Biden sparks TERF war on twitter with gender discrimination order (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Biden sparks TERF war on twitter with gender discrimination order