Current Events > UN vote to combat glorification of Nazism passes 130-2

(+) Yeah! (+)

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I'm not defending Nazism. It's dumb. It's detestable.

But it's a set of opinions, like any other set of bad opinions. They're protected by the first amendment.

it's a set of opinions that constitutes an inherent threat to a sizable portion of the population of the world

---

The United States Supreme Court has consistently affirmed the constitutional right to freedom of speech and the rights of peaceful assembly and association,

someone should tell them about June 1st then.

---

This man really went and compared Nazis to the black panthers

---

lmfao AT you're really not helping your well-earned reputation here
---

AssultTank posted...

My questions for you are as follows;
1) How do you determine when an ideology is a threat and needs to be censored?
2) Who makes the determination?
3) What protections are in place to prevent it from being used to abuse political opponents?

If you can't answer all three questions without also being able to apply it to an ideology you agree with, it's a bad idea to start saying we should restrict free speech as long as the people engaged in it aren't committing other crimes.

Because the next quoted line could be used to censor a lot of things... Like communism, the black panther party, and even the very logic used to implement this restriction of free speech when the government was given the power to do so. You need to flesh out an argument for restriction of free speech that adequately answers the above three questions.

I do not see those questions as necessary at all. to my knowledge, no ideology other than fascism has genocide as one of its core values. certainly no ideology that's politically relevant does.

---

AssultTank posted...

So you don't care about freedom. Good to know.

that's a pretty big leap in logic

---

AssultTank posted...

You don't see protections for the freedom of average people as important, the only conclusion you can draw from that is that you don't care about those protections.

I'm inclined to say that the average person under fascism is worse off than the average person under... pretty much any other economic or political system

---

Very interesting to see a mod feign concern for Americans of Middle Eastern descent in order to argue in support of espousing Nazi ideology.

---

Hey guys I totally think Nazis are bad but like what if prosecuting Nazis was...worse? Fuck outta here dude.

---

averagejoel posted...

I do not see those questions as necessary at all.

You definitely shouldn't be trying to have this argument, then. Forcing your views on others without debate or compromise is authoritarianism, by the way.

---

UnfairRepresent posted...

On paper it sounds like a violation of freedom of speech so the US is duty bound to vote against it

Unless there's something I don't understand.

In the US you can't be criminalized for political beliefs or statements. Even horrific ones.

THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE!!

Fuck the 1st Amendment.

#BlackLivesMatter
#RacismIsTerrorism
#NoTrumpNoKKKnoFascismUSA
---

ArmieBuff posted...

there's got to be a reason why literally all the developed free countries abstained

it looks better than voting no

or did you think any of the allied countries would go against papi america?

---

FlameTurtle posted...

This man really went and compared Nazis to the black panthers

His first point is essentially asking "how are nazis that bad".........

There is more than one way to combat Nazism. What happened to the marketplace of ideas we were supposed to defeat white supremacy in?

---

Socrawheeze posted...

His first point is essentially asking "how are nazis that bad".........

Literally "it's just words!"

---

FlameTurtle posted...

Literally "it's just words!"

I just gotta leave the thread or I'll get myself banned again. Fucking disgusting posts ITT.

Post 104 100% would've been deleted hours ago if it wasn't made by a Mod lol.

And the Mod note would simply be "If your argument relies on comparing Nazis to the BPP you're making a bad argument" with no chance of overturn on a dispute.

We all know how this works.
---

AssultTank posted...

I'm arguing against giving the government the power to lock people up for things they say or groups they are part of. It doesn't matter what those groups are.

We have plenty of legal methods to help combat Nazi ideology. Venue owners can refuse to rent out their space, people can protest and drown them out, you can refuse to associate with them, you can argue with them.

Any law written to restrict freedoms for one group can easily be interpreted to restrict freedoms for another. The fact that you think I'm feigning concern for Americans really shows that you really don't understand me and my way of thinking.

Its impossible for your arguments to be taken in good faith when the point youre trying to prove is It should be okay to espouse Nazi ideology. Thats what youre doing, full stop. Its fucking weird.


---

Bio1590 posted...

Post 104 100% would've been deleted hours ago if it wasn't made by a Mod lol.

And the Mod note would simply be "If your argument relies on comparing Nazis to the BPP you're making a bad argument" with no chance of overturn on a dispute.

We all know how this works.

Absolutely. Comparing BPP to Nazis should be grounds for getting demodded. This is fucking pathetic.


---

FursonaNonGrata posted...

Its impossible for your arguments to be taken in good faith when the point youre trying to prove is It should be okay to espouse Nazi ideology. Thats what youre doing, full stop. Its fucking weird.

FursonaNonGrata posted...

Absolutely. Comparing BPP to Nazis should be grounds for getting demodded. This is fucking pathetic.

^^^^^^^^^^^

Bio1590 posted...

Post 104 100% would've been deleted hours ago if it wasn't made by a Mod lol.

Seriously though. A group that fought against systematic oppression and did countless volunteer works in black inner city neighborhoods?

Sure, let's compare them to the fucking NAZI'S. Literally genociders vs victims of government sanctioned racism.

---

Killed 13 million people, half of them for being Jewish, the rest for being gay, infirm, Romani, socialist, etc etc etc

But the black panthers advocated for civil rights, same thing right

Stop trying to make this a logic game. Youre defending Nazism. Straight up. Putting a fancy coat of logic and fake concern isnt going to cover up the fact that youve spent an entire topic arguing that it should be okay to be a literal fucking Nazi.

---

SBAllen come get your Mod lmao
---

People are all "free speech" until others exercise their own free speech to shout down their shitty beliefs. Then it's all "How would you like it if you were ganged up on for merely disagreeing with the hivemind?"

---

AssultTank posted...

1) How do you determine when an ideology is a threat and needs to be censored?
2) Who makes the determination?
3) What protections are in place to prevent it from being used to abuse political opponents?

1. When one advocates violence and genocide
2. The government
3. By promising not to censure them so long as they don't advocate violence and fucking genocide.

---

This is one of the few UN votes where everyone but the USA votes yes that you can feel good about. Protecting freedom of speech, even (especially?) hate speech is essential to even the faade of a free and open society.

It's the votes that go 150-2 where the USA is in the minority against things like ending imperialism, promoting social programs like universal healthcare, etc. that you gotta cringe over. Those are about exploiting your people to make a quick buck, or spending 99% of your resources on setting up a military base in every corner of the world. Fuck that shit. This is a good no vote, though.

---

Also are we gonna pretend the Government didn't already have members of the BPP killed even without any laws against them lmao.

Like that's clearly a major flaw in whatever "argument" is being presented here too.
---

hockeybub89 posted...

People are all "free speech" until others exercise their own free speech to shout down their shitty beliefs. Then it's all "How would you like it if you were ganged up on for merely disagreeing with the hivemind?"

GameFAQs users when they cant openly be Nazis:



---

AT you should straight up leave this topic unless you're alright with being "that nazi defending mod"

That's what you're doing, categorically. Go ahead and mod me for it. It's what you're doing.

Lol not sure if I wasnt comparing the BPP to Nazis, I was just saying that stopping Nazis also leads to murdering members of the BPP is as good of an argument that you think it is.

---

Were you the one who once said that the Nazis started as a peaceful group, AT?

---

FlameTurtle posted...

Were you the one who once said that the Nazis started as a peaceful group, AT?

TarEllesar or w/e used to say that all the time. He was/is a mod too!

---

Kastrada posted...

1. When one advocates violence and genocide
2. The government
3. By promising not to censure them so long as they don't advocate violence and fucking genocide.

1. The US government (and many other governments, but we are taking about the US right now) has advocated violence throughout its history and has been involved in multiple genocides.
2. Refer back to point 1.
3. Does that mean the US government will no longer be allowed to advocate for violence?

Sadly being violent and/or genocidal is not limited to a specific ideology. People in power use the tools of power to oppress others.

---

Lots of people in this topic really don't understand why it's important to protect one's right to speech and free association.

---

AssultTank posted...

That's the issue though. A governmental promise is worth about as much as a single sheet of toilet paper.

We promise not to use this sweeping power you've just given us to gain even more power. Honest!

"I swear he's a Nazi Sympathizer, the fact that he denies it is proof, see?"
"Yeah, he's a Nazi. Sure he never said it, but we think he is and under the law that's enough."

You....you do realize this country was doing that to communists and Black Panthers for FUCKING DECADES right?

So why the fuck would you bring it up in defense of Nazis' freedom of speech?

"Well we can't do this to the Nazi's because look at what might happen to these other groups" is about as short sighted as you can get this side of....defending Nazi's.

---

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Lots of people in this topic really don't understand why it's important to protect one's right to speech and free association.

Dont worry, no one is coming for your Aryan fetish Naruto fan fiction. Just sit this argument out buddy.


---

Espousing Nazi ideology shouldnt be allowed.

A mod on GameFAQs: Uhh thats fascism actually

---

AssultTank posted...

You can think I'm a Nazi defender all you want

You are unequivocally defending the right to espouse the view that Jews and non-whites shouldn't exist. That's what saying "uh actually naziism should be allowed" is