Board 8 > Danganronpa Spoiler Topic for All Games (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tsumugi is the most nothing character ever. I knew she would at least be alive until Case 6, but I didn't really peg her as the mastermind. I was more ready to believe the mastermind is a 17th student or some third-party. That was the case for Junko and Junko AI. Ending Case 5 with a Junko didn't help either.

I dunno if this was intentional, but I would have had a much different read of 3-5 if I knew the mastermind was one of the remaining 7 students, especially with Kokichi provoking the mastermind around the middle to end. But Tsumugi's reaction was so....subdued. She was somehow more nervous in 3-1 than 3-5. Based on everyone's reaction, I was convinced that the mastermind was a 17th student. Then it was Tsumugi and I was like "Oh." And that's all you care about with Tsumugi, because 3-6 just marches down its own message.

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ZeldaTPLink posted...

I agree she was uber obvious, though. But can't have everything.

As someone who clearly doesn't metagame the way you guys do, I did not find Tsumugi obvious. I should have, if I had spent an once of time thinking about it, because even if I had simply gotten to the point of "oh, there's a path from the girl's bathroom," that should have explained everything. Instead I was just, like, huh, how 'bout that.

I agree that she does exactly nothing the whole game, though. Plus she's a dip.

KamikazePotato posted...

Characters like Ibuki and Gundham didn't work for me at all because they felt like caricatures.

I didn't like either of these two. They weren't caricatures. They were simply annoying. Although I think a large part of that was because they didn't feel remotely real, either in the literal sense or within the context of the game world.

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Ibuki and Gundham are the 1st and 3rd best character in DR2 respectively IMO, lol.

I'm just a big fan of the excentrics!

This is what I've always said about the divide caused by the extreme charter archetypes though. Gonna get strong feelings on either side.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Ibuki and Gundham are the 1st and 3rd best character in DR2 respectively IMO, lol.

DR2 cast is very weak to begin with, so that doesn't say much. I'm not sure your statement and mine are even mutually exclusive.

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DR2 is a very, very strong cast.

Positional DR2 rankings for me series wide.

2
4
5
6
7
11
12
19
20
21
24
31
34
40
41
47

Out of a total of 48 I bother ranking.

11 in the upper half, 5 in the top 10!

The cast as a whole I love more in V3, but 2 is the clear front runner for me in individual character quality.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

DR2 is a very, very sting cast.

I'm trying to figure out what word you intended here.

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Auto correct can get rough.

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What on earth are these takes? DR2's cast is great!

As LtM said, DRV3's cast gels together really well and play off each other way better, but DR2's cast individually are amazing. Granted, they are separated into "shit" and "decidedly not shit", but other than the 4 characters in the first category, DR2 has 12 really entertaining characters.

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I ranked all the characters at one point and 9 of my top 12 were DRV3 characters, lol

V3 - 4 characters in top 10, 8 characters in the upper half.

1 - 1 character in the top 10, 4 in the upper half.

Komaru is at #14, the only outlier.

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I'll give my top 20 just for the hell of it

1. Nagito
2. Kaede
3. Kokichi
4. Chiaki
5. Fuyuhiko
6. Shuichi
7. Maki
8. Tsumugi
9. Himiko
10. Kaito
11. Miu
12. Gonta
13. Mondo
14. Sakura
15. Byakuya
16. Mahiru
17. Kirumi
18. Celeste
19. Chihiro
20. Hiyoko

yes there are 9 characters in DRV3 alone that I like more than ANY DR1 character at all, lol

also DR2 has 3 of my top 5 and then nothing else until 16 lol

I already posted this on the first page....guess it wasn't Numbered, lol. Thank you MSWord.

1.Kokichi Oma
2.Ibuki Mioda
3.Miu Iruma
4.Fuyuhiko Kuzuriyu
5.Gundham Tanaka
6.Chiaki Nanami
7.Nagito Komaeda
8.Junko Enoshima
9.Gonta Gokuhara
10.Kaede Akamatsu
11.Hajime Hinata
12.Sonia Nevermind
13.Kaito Momota
14.Komaru Naeigi
15.Sakura Ogami
16.Maki Harukawa
17.Tenko Chabashira

18.Himiko Yumeno
19.Mahiru Koizumi
20.Kazuichi Souda
21.Aoi Ashahina
22.Mikan Tsumiki
23.Celestia Ludenberg
24.Peko Pekoyama
25.K1-B0
26.Kyoko Kirigiri
27.Shuichi Saihara
28.Kirumi Tojo
29.Angie Yonaga
30.Toko Fukawa
31.Nekomaru Nidai
32.Ryoma Hoshi
33.Rantaro Amami
34.Byakuya Twogami
35.Sayaka Maizono
36.Makoto Naeigi
37.Korekiyo Shinguji
38.Tsumugi Shirogane
39.Chihiro Fujisaki

40.Akane Owari
41.Hiyoko Saionji
42.Mondo Owada
43.Kiyotaka Ishimaru
44.Leon Kuwata
45.Yasuhiro Hagakure
46.Hifumi Yamada
47.Teruteru Hanaamura
48.Byakuya Togami


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Top 20 is uuuuh

1-4. Four-way tie for 1st between Shuichi, Maki, Kaito, and Nagito. The first three easily have the best character interactions in the series and all have likable personalities, designs, plot importance, and character development. They work extremely well together. Nagito is probably the single-best character on his own merits though.
5. Fuyuhiko. One of the emotional cores of DR2.
6. Byakuya. Super entertaining.
7-8. Komaru and Toko. Their interactions in UDG are very good and I like their character growth together. Toko goes from a character I kinda disliked to one of the better ones and Komaru is a surprisingly unique anti-protagonist in the role she ends up playing in the plot.
9-10. Makoto and Kyouko. I like protagonists, sue me.
11. Keebo. The way he defied his programming and was the single-biggest reason the killing game ended, at the cost of his own life, was the definition of heroism.
12. Gonta. He deserved better.
13. Gundham. Carried hard by his trial, where he has some of my favorite dialogue in the series. Before that I didn't really like him but man he goes out with a bang.
14. Kaede. I like protagonists. Even fake ones.
15. Asahina. Inherently likable stabilizing prescense in DR1.
16. Chihiro. Also deserved better.
17. Miu. Points detracted for being an asshole but is still funny.
18. Kokichi. Points detracted for being an asshole (more then necessary) but is still interesting.
19. Sakura. She's cool.
20. Chiaki. The most focus-tested character I've ever seen. Created to be a waifu. It kinda worked though.

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I feel like an absolute moron for posting Kokichi thoughts in the Anagram topic - thought I was posting in this one. The post was only live for like, 5-10 seconds so I sincerely hope it went unnoticed, but jesus I'd feel fucking horrible if he saw. X_X

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shake's kokichi opinions so bad they ruin the game for people
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Gah he saw part of it I feel fucking horrid.

If he stopped reading where I feel like he did then thankfully the bigger twist should be saved but jesus I've literally become everything I hate

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This is the risk of a separate topic and why I don't typically push for them myself.

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kevwaffles posted...

This is the risk of a separate topic and why I don't typically push for them myself.

I mean yeah, but did you see what was happening without the separate topic?

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it's fine, it was just a lie

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KamikazePotato posted...

I mean yeah, but did you see what was happening without the separate topic?

Yup. Anagram's first topic was a total fucking tire fire that literally all of you should be fucking ashamed of.

You're all idiots.

What'd Shake post, anyway? I didn't see it.
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Also curious to know what kind of spoiler he got

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KamikazePotato posted...

kevwaffles posted...

This is the risk of a separate topic and why I don't typically push for them myself.

I mean yeah, but did you see what was happening without the separate topic?

I mean yes and that's why I both understand and appreciate why this was made. But it is a risk and if I were contributing more to these conversations I may have made the same mistake.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

What'd Shake post, anyway? I didn't see it.

Nanis23 posted...

Also curious to know what kind of spoiler he got

*Triple checks I'm actually in the right place this time*
My (not exact) post was:

This case does so much to sell how pure evil Kokichi feels once he takes the spotlight, aided by his always excellent voice acting and sprites. The later reveal that he's just a mostly good-natured kid playing pretend but is doing it so well that he pulls the wool over even Monokuma's eyes shot him up my character rankings.

Based on Anagram's post afterward, I'm assuming he stopped reading the post no further than "once he takes the spotlight" so I'm sincerely hoping that the bigger surprise still eludes him.

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- The "game stops when only two people are left" rule has been brought up too many times at this point to not become important later on

Was it? I don't remember

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Two? Why not three? Because if three people are left, and one gets killed, both people know exactly whodunit. Plus, it'll be a tie in the trial.

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Nanis23 posted...

Was it? I don't remember

No it doesn't become even slightly important, it's basically ignored

I feel like they could have done a thing where Himiko surviving at the end is a big 'fuck you' to the foreshadowing of there being only two survivors at the end but they didn't really explicitly do that

This reminds me of how annoyed I am that they also never used the mechanic where you actually get to choose who to vote to execute in DRV3. The fact that they quietly slipped that in there immediately set off warning bells for me that the game was going to use this in a clever way at some point but they never did, aside from the one time you have to choose not to vote but that wasn't very clever at all.

I still think that 3-5 should have come down to a split decision where the cast goes 50/50 on Kokichi/Kaito and your vote is the one that decides it, and you aren't sure as the player which option is correct

Paratroopa1 posted...

I still think that 3-5 should have come down to a split decision where the cast goes 50/50 on Kokichi/Kaito and your vote is the one that decides it, and you aren't sure as the player which option is correct

Meanwhile, I was hoping the "tie votes count as correct" concept would get a greater payoff than it did.

(Still, Kokichi's the one who asked what would happen in a tie, and he later created a scenario the known innocents can't split their way out of...)

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The only other thing I can think of, and this is even less likely, is some kind of weird crowdsourced reality show where people watch are "the mastermind," but that's not going to happen.

Anagraaam

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I know I am jumping ahead before Anagram gets there but I just read again about the ending

Why people say that V3 is set in a different timeline than that of the original 2 games and anime? where was it implied?
The names of the first 3 titles from Team Danganronpa are the same names as the first 2 games and anime so...

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The claim made by Tsumugi in V3 is that D1-3 (and an undefined amount more of them following) are works of pure fiction and only much later did they start doing Danganronpa with "real" people. Which is also supposedly why she can cosplay as the 1 and 2 casts.

There is also some small indication at the end that many of her claims may not have been true either, but it's the best we have to go on.

Edit: Oh and V3 was advertised as being a different timeline or something like that. Which is why people will just say that up front to people who haven't played yet.

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But... It is a different timeline.
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Xiahou Shake posted...

*Triple checks I'm actually in the right place this time*
My (not exact) post was:

Based on Anagram's post afterward, I'm assuming he stopped reading the post no further than "once he takes the spotlight" so I'm sincerely hoping that the bigger surprise still eludes him.

Oh hey, people were discussing this. I got to the part where he called Kokichi a "good natured kid," then realized it was a spoiler and clicked away. It basically meant I knew that Kokichi couldn't be the mastermind, but I honestly knew that already just because of how obvious it was.

I do enjoy how I guessed the crowdsourced answers element correctly, even if I got everything else about it wrong.

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I look forward to any reactions you have to our heated disagreements.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I look forward to any reactions you have to our heated disagreements.

I haven't read through the topic. I skimmed the first two pages; it sounds like the main contentions are Kaede's death, Junko as a character, and V3's plot twist?

Kaede's death makes complete sense. She's designed to be really likeable waifubait, but she doesn't really have much in the way of flaws or room for character growth. If she'd survived, she either would have had to take Shuichi's role and character development or been like Makoto, where she's just a flat character the whole time. I don't think the second option would work for V3's twist, and Shuichi reacting to Kaede's death and blaming himself gives him some depth that Makoto and Hajime kind of don't have. One thing I'm a little disappointed by now that I think about it is that the end of V3 doesn't address how Shuichi is no longer responsible for her death, and can just act and think freely without that guilt. And yeah, even without that, Shuichi is still the more interesting character. I can see why people would want a female main character, but aside from that, I think it's a really effective storytelling moment.

I can understand hating Junko as a character, since her motivations make no sense and she loses each time only because she chooses to lose, but as the embodiment of an emotion, her character works for me. I kind of thought she was at her strongest and most interesting in her "bored, listless" persona as opposed to her other personas, because that's the one closest to embodying despair, so I'd say the thing about her I like the least is switching personas.

V3, though, hm. I liked V3, but I completely understand hating the plot twist. If you accept Shuichi's contention that "fiction matters" and think that Tsumugi is wrong, then Makoto and Hajime's journeys not only made the world a worse place, the emotions and lessons they learned were then wiped from their minds and they went on to die pointlessly in future Danganronpas, right? That's like the biggest downer ending ever. And if you side with Tsumugi in that argument, then it means that D1 and D2 were a waste of time. I can see why, if you were attached to D1 and D2, you would hate that. The series definitely has a problem with escalation, where everything has to be bigger and crazier than the previous game's version of it, and as a traditional narrative, D1 and D2 are way more sensible.

I still like V3 the most, but I have no problem with the people who hate that about it.

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I always viewed V3 as an alternate universe separate from the original and was surprised at how many people thought otherwise. UDB and D3 don't even make sense in the context of the reality TV show thing V3 puts forward.

Overall I think V3's final case and ending have flaws and definite room for improvement, but it tries to do something truly different and I think that counts for a lot. Plus some of the details are kind of amazing. Overall a much better ending than DR1's almost non-ending and DR2's complete mess.

It's also an ending that gets more interesting the more you read into it. I strongly suggest replaying or rewatching the prologue in some way. Lots of stuff there that both makes more sense while also not adding up!

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kevwaffles posted...

The claim made by Tsumugi in V3 is that D1-3 (and an undefined amount more of them following) are works of pure fiction and only much later did they start doing Danganronpa with "real" people. Which is also supposedly why she can cosplay as the 1 and 2 casts.

There is also some small indication at the end that many of her claims may not have been true either, but it's the best we have to go on.

Edit: Oh and V3 was advertised as being a different timeline or something like that. Which is why people will just say that up front to people who haven't played yet.

There were those case files in Shuichi's lab where he notes that they begin with drawings of murders, and at some point they become pictures of real murders. I think the implication is that they were the murders from the previous Danganronpas, so it would mean that the first two games were just fiction in this universe. I think there were 52 books, but I'd have to go back and look it up to be sure.

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Anagram posted...

but she doesn't really have much in the way of flaws or room for character growth.

See, I don't agree with this. At the start, she's this overly-determined cheerleader, trying to encourage the group. They accept her assumed role as leader, but if she had survived the first killing rather than Shuichi, I can only imagine how she would have changed. Become more desperate. Become more cynical. Lost the confidence of the group completely. Et cetera.

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azuarc posted...

See, I don't agree with this. At the start, she's this overly-determined cheerleader, trying to encourage the group. They accept her assumed role as leader, but if she had survived the first killing rather than Shuichi, I can only imagine how she would have changed. Become more desperate. Become more cynical. Lost the confidence of the group completely. Et cetera.

I ain't gonna post it a third time!

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What? The fanfic? I've been reading that a little at a time.

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Oh I just assumed I had failed to reach anyone, lol.

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azuarc posted...

See, I don't agree with this. At the start, she's this overly-determined cheerleader, trying to encourage the group. They accept her assumed role as leader, but if she had survived the first killing rather than Shuichi, I can only imagine how she would have changed. Become more desperate. Become more cynical. Lost the confidence of the group completely. Et cetera.

I can imagine that being good. Maybe I should take back what I said about her not having as much room as Shuichi for growth; instead I'll just say that I think what we got out of Shuichi is still better than what we could have gotten out of Kaede.

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KamikazePotato posted...

I always viewed V3 as an alternate universe separate from the original and was surprised at how many people thought otherwise. UDB and D3 don't even make sense in the context of the reality TV show thing V3 puts forward.

D3 kind of makes sense. They didn't say that every killing game involves a high school; it's plausible that they'd bring back the survivors to play another killing game, and then the writers realized no one would like it if the survivors of the first game died, so they wrote in a bunch of terrible adult characters to die instead. Similarly, you can explain UDG as a terrible one-off spinoff; there's even a poster for Ultra Despair Girls 2 in V3. The thing that's hard to explain is the D1 cast appearance in D2 and the D2 cast appearance in D3, since none of them were directly involved in the killing game. Still, you can claim that the rules for reappearances weren't finalized that early in the show's development.

A better question is how, if UDG is a spinoff, they got a city-sized arena. You can maybe buy a few islands in the Pacific or a high school-sized building, but UDG is in an entire city.

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I think you're misunderstanding something.

In V3, DR1, 2, and UDG were video games. DR3 was a show. They started doing the real person stuff later.

The implication is that V3 takes place in the real actual future of our world.

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Wasn't the DR3 logo they showed in game the one from the anime? So I assume the anime was the DR3 they got in the DRV3 universe.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I think you're misunderstanding something.

In V3, DR1, 2, and UDG were video games. DR3 was a show. They started doing the real person stuff later.

The implication is that V3 takes place in the real actual future of our world.

If that's the case, then I totally did misunderstand that. I thought D1, D2, and D3 were all shows. That's embarrassing. Whoops!

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Basically the idea is "What if Danganronpa become a franchise the was known and enjoyed almost the entire population of earth and made Disney look like a bitch, to the point where it's popularity started effecting world politics?"

"Danganronpa is bigger than Jesus"

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Basically the idea is "What if Danganronpa become a franchise the was known and enjoyed almost the entire population of earth and made Disney look like a bitch, to the point where it's popularity started effecting world politics?"

"Danganronpa is bigger than Jesus"

I get it now. I can't believe I missed such a big detail, though. Oh well.

I know this may be B8 heresy, but I think I might have liked Danganronpa more than Phoenix Wright as a series. They're definitely close for me.

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