Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 322: Anarchist Jurisdiction Since 2016

(+) Yeah! (+)

I thought maybe it was taken out of context or something but nope, the video is linked in the top reply.

It sounds even worse on video than it looked in text.

---

https://twitter.com/BSO/status/1308501619424866307?s=19

---

More and more I question if things can even be solved in a peaceful manner.

I don't want it to come to that of course, but like... what do we do? What stops this insanity?

If our votes end up literally not being counted then I fear for the near future.

---

If you want to feel a bit better, heres Fauci smacking down Rand Pauls idiocy:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1308793235805007874?s=21

---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

https://twitter.com/BSO/status/1308501619424866307?s=19

Police unions

---

lol rand paul

---

Dark Young Link posted...

More and more I question if things can even be solved in a peaceful manner.

I don't want it to come to that of course, but like... what do we do? What stops this insanity?

If our votes end up literally not being counted then I fear for the near future.

I think that depends how they run things.

If they don't count votes, don't give up power, and continue running things in a hostile way to large sections of the country (e.g. raising taxes on states like New York and California which they did with their tax changes while simultaneously defunding "anarchist juristictions" which happen to be the same places like New York City) then those jurisdictions will have a strong incentive to cede from the union.

At least, that's going by history of past empires. (I'm using empires as the model here, because empires usually try to extract wealth from some neglected provinces in order to enrich the capital city, and then typically the neglected provinces rebel. Happened with the Roman empire, happened with the British Empire, happened with the Spanish Empire, happened with the Ghana Empire etc).

On the other hand...if they seize power, effectively dissolve democracy, but do a good job of actually running the country without trying to slap around places like New York? Then the country probably stays together for a long time, just with a minimal or much weaker democracy (like the Roman empire after Caesar fucked the senate).

Maybe things will be different somehow because it's 2020, but historically those are the two likely outcomes if democracy really does go down the drain.

---

none of those examples are relevant. the breakdown of democracy is entirely different than an empire acting callously to one of its regions

---

If you think the current riots have been an inconvenience, just wait until the election gets fuckered. It may not be officially endorsed by the states, but there will without a doubt be some sort of organized uprising.


---

metroid composite posted...

I think that depends how they run things.

If they don't count votes, don't give up power, and continue running things in a hostile way to large sections of the country (e.g. raising taxes on states like New York and California which they did with their tax changes while simultaneously defunding "anarchist juristictions" which happen to be the same places like New York City) then those jurisdictions will have a strong incentive to cede from the union.

At least, that's going by history of past empires. (I'm using empires as the model here, because empires usually try to extract wealth from some neglected provinces in order to enrich the capital city, and then typically the neglected provinces rebel. Happened with the Roman empire, happened with the British Empire, happened with the Spanish Empire, happened with the Ghana Empire etc).

On the other hand...if they seize power, effectively dissolve democracy, but do a good job of actually running the country without trying to slap around places like New York? Then the country probably stays together for a long time, just with a minimal or much weaker democracy (like the Roman empire after Caesar fucked the senate).

Maybe things will be different somehow because it's 2020, but historically those are the two likely outcomes if democracy really does go down the drain.

The interesting thing about that is that in the Roman Republic, voting power was also concentrated away from the capital. First, it was limited to Italy only, but within Italy, the urban poor of the capital had little power. They had 3 assemblies, the Century Assembly, the Tribal Assembly, and the Plebeian Assembly.

The Century Assembly voted strictly by wealth - the people were subdivided into 193 "centuries" along wealth lines although each century could contain more than 100 people. A full 98 (an outright majority) of the blocs were assigned to the top 1% or so by wealth. An absolute majority of the population, containing the poor, were packed into 1 century, which voted last.

The Tribal Assembly was theoretically not wealth-based, but it contained 4 "tribes" for the city of Rome, and 31 for Italy outside Rome. Since all elections were held at Rome and you could only vote in person, in practice, for the 31 nonurban tribes only people of means were able to travel to vote.

So the net result of this is that landed gentry in the Italian countryside exercised a tremendous amount of political power in the Roman Republic. The urban poor of Rome spoke only through the Plebeian Assembly, and people outside Italy were completely excluded.

Given that the founding fathers obviously closely studied the Roman Republic when designing our constitution, I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that they hit on a similar method of keeping political power away from urban centers.

---

NFUN posted...

none of those examples are relevant. the breakdown of democracy is entirely different than an empire acting callously to one of its regions

Sure, they can be disconnected, but if things continue in the same direction they have been going we'll get both at the same time.

---

This may also explain why Caesar and Augustus were able to replace the Republic with the Empire. Only a tiny fraction of people who lived in the vast territory of the Roman Republic had a significant political voice to begin with, so many people did not feel they were losing representation which they never had.

---

NFUN posted...

none of those examples are relevant. the breakdown of democracy is entirely different than an empire acting callously to one of its regions

Sure, but people won't care about losing democracy if everything else is working out great for them. The problem for Trump is that he's incapable of making that happen for enough people to maintain support from the whole nation.
---

Maybe I still have too much misplaced faith in the American people, but if democracy clearly breaks, like Trump refusing to step down, you're gonna get a lot more than a collective "meh" from the country, even if he weren't horribly divisive. Even if tons of people are gullible and are convinced to ignore blatant violations of norms, there are lines that you can't cross

---

I mean, at that point you get to the question of "who is going to stop him?"

There isn't a clear answer.

---

red13n posted...

I mean, at that point you get to the question of "who is going to stop him?"

There isn't a clear answer.

that's where demographics actually help the dems. maybe a majority of the country wouldn't do anything, but most of those people are in parts of the country that frankly don't matter. If you do want to look at history, look at the fall of the Eastern Bloc. People striking where money is made would send a pretty clear message to powerbrokers. Kneecap the economy enough and you can force a change

Again, expecting Americans to strike is optimistic, but, with the example of how much BLM forced itself into public consciousness, I think this is one of the few steps that could motivate people

---

NFUN posted...

most of those people are in parts of the country that frankly don't matter.

Gee, I wonder why so many of those people are willing to go along with anything Trump wants as long as it pisses off the left.
---

I'm pretty sure if Trump just tried to outright ignore results, the military would likely step in considering how much the leadership hates him.

---

KamikazePotato posted...

I remember when I said years ago that Trump might not leave office and people here said I was overreacting

Foolish of them to not put trust in KP's doomsaying. I have like a 100% prediction right for the last four years. All I had to do was always bet on the negative outcome!

It's still just as ridiculous doomsaying lol

---

FFDragon posted...

If you think the current riots have been an inconvenience, just wait until the election gets fuckered. It may not be officially endorsed by the states, but there will without a doubt be some sort of organized uprising.

I'm expecting violence in the streets - more than what we've seen from the recent protests - immediately following and perhaps during the election.

---

The Roman Empire fell because it failed to protect it's borders and it was overrun. This is why protecting your borders is important and a necessary component of a nation.

---

Trump has already told people to patrol the polls, so I can't imagine that ends peacefully everywhere.

---

The military may or may not step in if (when) Trump refuses to step down, but the military granting itself the power to remove a President comes with its own can of worms.

---

Xeybozn posted...

Gee, I wonder why so many of those people are willing to go along with anything Trump wants as long as it pisses off the left.

y'know my post had context

---

KamikazePotato posted...

The military may or may not step in if (when) Trump refuses to step down, but the military granting itself the power to remove a President comes with its own can of worms.

Not when it's merely enforcing the election results. I mean Trump supporters would cry foul but they're full of shit if they're thinking they'd actually stage any sort of revolution.

---

The President is no longer the President when his term ends.

---

Corrik7 posted...

The Roman Empire fell because it failed to protect it's borders and it was overrun. This is why protecting your borders is important and a necessary component of a nation.

I was only joking with my earlier comment about being brainwashed but you're really going for it, aren't you

---

https://mobile.twitter.com/AnoncatSupport/status/1308929325404741632

CNN supposedly confirmed it. I didn't check.

---

Xeybozn posted...

Gee, I wonder why so many of those people are willing to go along with anything Trump wants as long as it pisses off the left.

Well...yes.

That thing I talked about where empires screw over remote provinces? Certainly has happened in the US, and not just in the various islands the US conquered, it also happened in continental US states like Colorado, Wyoming, Montana. States that have a desert and/or mountain climate where it's hard to have enough farming for an independent economy.

Costal companies controlled the railways, manipulated shipping prices for railways to make sure that no local factories would spring up. Bullied local state governments into lowering corporate taxes to 0, and also pushed local governments into striking environmental regulation laws, etc. People in states like these (overall) have a hatred of big government, and ALSO a hatred of big corporations, cause they've been screwed by both pretty much since the beginning.

Do these states want to rebel? Kinda. Can they? Not really on their own, they're so economically dependent on the coasts.

Same reason, I assume, that Puerto Rico hasn't left the US (unlike other territories such as the Philippines, who did successfully leave). Even though the US government has been a huge dick to Puerto Rico.

If people in a territory that's being mistreated don't see themselves being better off by leaving the union, then they will not (on their own) leave the union.

---

Well, if you guys want some horror reading about this, The Atlantic came out with an article where they basically articulate how bad things could get in a worst-case scenario: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424

Some selections for your psychological terror:

The Atlantic

Trump may test this. According to sources in the Republican Party at the state and national levels, the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority. With a justification based on rampant fraud, Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly. The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires

The Trump-campaign legal adviser I spoke with told me the push to appoint electors would be framed in protecting the people's will. Once committed to the position that the overtime count has been rigged, the adviser said, state lawmakers will want to judge for themselves what the voters intended.

In Pennsylvania, three Republican leaders told me they had already discussed the direct appointment of electors among themselves, and one said he had discussed it with Trump's national campaign.

"I've mentioned it to them, and I hope they're thinking about it too," Lawrence Tabas, the Pennsylvania Republican Party's chairman, told me. "I just don't think this is the right time for me to be discussing those strategies and approaches, but [direct appointment of electors] is one of the options. It is one of the available legal options set forth in the Constitution." He added that everyone's preference is to get a swift and accurate count. "If the process, though, is flawed, and has significant flaws, our public may lose faith and confidence" in the election's integrity.

There's a lot more, as it goes over the various stages in the process between Election Day and Inauguration Day, including various important dates and how the tactics may change for each one. It's really an interesting, if profoundly horrifying, read.

---

Meanwhile, in Seattle:

https://twitter.com/spekulation/status/1308859475428806657

---

Meanwhile in Connecticut:

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/09/23/betsy-devos-butt-out-trans-sports-connecticut-governor-ned-lamont/

• Schools receive federal funding for desegregation efforts, federal funds used for sending Black and Latino students to "magnet schools"
• Betsy DeVos threatens to cut federal desegregation grants unless they pull out of an althetic conference. (The issue she has with the athletic conference is that it doesn't explicitly ban trans athletes...which is consistent with Connecticut law).

---

metroid composite posted...

Meanwhile in Connecticut:

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/09/23/betsy-devos-butt-out-trans-sports-connecticut-governor-ned-lamont/

* Schools receive federal funding for desegregation efforts, federal funds used for sending Black and Latino students to "magnet schools"
* Betsy DeVos threatens to cut federal desegregation grants unless they pull out of an althetic conference. (The issue she has with the athletic conference is that it doesn't explicitly ban trans athletes...which is consistent with Connecticut law).

Governor I believe already told her to shove it.

---

I never understood why people who claim to support transgender rights opt to side with conservatives on allowing transgender boys and girls to play sports with their gender identity.

---

Meanwhile, in Florida:

https://twitter.com/TooMuchMe/status/1308849621041590276

• "You can't vote unless you pay off all your fines and fees! (hehehe, those suckers will never pay off those fines.)"
• "Wait, you can't have Michael Bloomberg pay off your fines and fees, that's cheating! You're just supposed to never vote!"

---

metroid composite posted...

Meanwhile, in Florida:

https://twitter.com/TooMuchMe/status/1308849621041590276

* "You can't vote unless you pay off all your fines and fees! (hehehe, those suckers will never pay off those fines.)"
* "Wait, you can't have Michael Bloomberg pay off your fines and fees, that's cheating! You're just supposed to never vote!"

They screwed themselves on this one by insisting the fines had nothing to do with voting.

---

metroid composite posted...

Meanwhile, in Florida:

https://twitter.com/TooMuchMe/status/1308849621041590276

* "You can't vote unless you pay off all your fines and fees! (hehehe, those suckers will never pay off those fines.)"
* "Wait, you can't have Michael Bloomberg pay off your fines and fees, that's cheating! You're just supposed to never vote!"

The guy who set up a website in 2000 to allow people in swing states to trade a Gore vote for a Nader vote from someone in a safe state was threatened with 3 million years in prison. He shut down the website rather than risking that.

---

Something tells me Bloomberg has more than a few lawyers ready to tell Floridas AG to fuck off

---

Again. Bloomberg is not the one paying off the fines. He had a fundraiser to raise money to pay off some of the fines. Yes, a billionaire had a fundraiser to pay off fines instead of doing it himself.

---

Bloomberg should donate more out of spite.

---

Good on Bloomberg, but it will always weird me out that the 1% can improve the lives of so many people for what is essentially chump change to them

Shows the extreme imbalance of power in this country when 32,000 people's lives can have a major hardship lifted from them by .03% of Bloomberg's wealth

---

"you aren't allowed to do charity because it UN-disenfranchises people"
-Florida

---

Meanwhile, in Louisiana:

A cop is ambushed and shot, sparking outrage from senators -
https://twitter.com/SenJohnKennedy/status/1308136131586920448

Plot twist though... He shot himself and made up the story so he wouldn't be disciplined -
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/23/us/louisiana-police-officer-fake-ambush-trnd/index.html

Is this one of those buttered toast duct taped to a cat situations where the police want to prosecute anyone who attacks a cop but also wants to protect any cop who screw up an shoots someone?

---

lmao a Trump ad showed in Florida saying he added 10.6 million jobs in the past 4 months.

Not mentioning the 20.6 million that were lost the first 2 months.

---

red sox 777 posted...

This may also explain why Caesar and Augustus were able to replace the Republic with the Empire. Only a tiny fraction of people who lived in the vast territory of the Roman Republic had a significant political voice to begin with, so many people did not feel they were losing representation which they never had.

This is just the story of the Star Wars prequels
---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

https://twitter.com/BSO/status/1308501619424866307?s=19

The penalty for being neurodivergent in a society with armed police is worse than the penalty for being a minority
---

Jakyl25 posted...

The penalty for being neurodivergent in a society with armed police is worse than the penalty for being a minority

Interesting take.

---

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/23/asia/north-korea-south-korea-intl-hnk/index.html

---

I dont mean to play oppression Olympics, but as someone who is high-functioning autistic and who has been around people who are much lower functioning, they (or their parents if theyre extremely low-functioning) have to have the same talk black families do.

Police can have hair triggers, and neurodivergent people may not even be CAPABLE of following orders.
---

Corrik7 posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/23/asia/north-korea-south-korea-intl-hnk/index.html

Corrik7 posted...

The Roman Empire fell because it failed to protect it's borders and it was overrun. This is why protecting your borders is important and a necessary component of a nation.

---