Poll of the Day > Imagine making less than $20 an hour when youre over 20 yrs old in 2020.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Topic

imagine a dragon appears and uses his flame breath to set your less than $20 on fire. what do you do

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Its unfortunate but isn't the median wage in America like somewhere around 15 an hour

OhhhJa posted...

Its unfortunate but isn't the median wage in America like somewhere around 15 an hour

> $865 weekly for all full-time workers in 2017

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okay Im imagining it. what now

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Lokarin posted...

> $865 weekly for all full-time workers in 2017

That's like basically right at 20 hour

Lokarin posted...

> $865 weekly for all full-time workers in 2017

That'd take 27-odd dollars an hour, forty hours a week, so you know something's off when some states or cities barely go as high as 13.50/hr. <_<

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So I'm imagining reality?

My state minimum is still $7.25.

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Lokarin posted...

> $865 weekly for all full-time workers in 2017

Lokarin posted...

Is that before or after taxes? That's pretty much what I make weekly after taxes and my hourly rate is $27.14/hr

Matt_256 posted...

Is that before or after taxes? That's pretty much what I make weekly after taxes and my hourly rate is $27.14/hr

$20 for 40 hours a week in $800 before taxes. So Idk where Lok is getting those numbers. Maybe hes adding overtime... Or more than 40 hours. Or more than $20 an hour...
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Supposedly 40% of jobs in the US pay $15 or less an hour actually. The median is skewed because of so many high paying jobs (er much higher paying jobs).

The reality is of the 200 mill or so workers in this country, almost 100 million of them make less than 15$ an hour, so it's not exactly hard to imagine, just look around.

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I know right? Like, if only we further empowered government to steal more money from people by force, theyd definitely fix it!

now imagine the dragon apologizes and offers you a job that pays $21 an hour

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The problem isn't minimum wage; it's how poorly our combined resources are distributed.

It's almost like politicians siphon our output for themselves!

RedPixel posted...

The problem isn't minimum wage; it's how poorly our combined resources are distributed.

It's almost like politicians siphon our output for themselves!

Minimum wage is absolutely a problem in the US though. The fact that it hasn't really gone up in decades and cost of living has steadily increased the entire time is pretty inconceivable. Minimum wage nowadays would barely be enough to cover even one of my bills and i dont even live that extravagantly. When I lived with my parents in my early 20s, I worked at panera making a couple dollars over minimum wage and after paying my liability car insurance and phone, I could barely afford gas and food. And I wasn't even paying rent

Not to mention, this was 10 years ago when cost of living was significantly lower than it is now

Imagine needing to spend over 30k a year to live.

Entity13 posted...

That'd take 27-odd dollars an hour, forty hours a week, so you know something's off when some states or cities barely go as high as 13.50/hr. <_<

I worked for this company a few years ago, it basically stated it was a semi-commision type job but you needed to do a few months of training first, which just paid a bit over min wage at the time (like $14 an hour or something).

What is more, there was a required 10 hours overtime per week, so you had to work 50 hours, and the training shift I did went till midnight. It kinda sucked, there was an hour lunch, so the shift was basically 11 hours, 30 mins away, so from leaving to getting back was 12 hours daily (if you didn't stop anywhere).

I had to leave by about 11 am, and I absolutely was not able to get to sleep after getting home at 12:30 am or so (unless I stopped for food which I usually did, so 1 am), for at least 2 hours. I'm not young anymore, and less than 8 hours of sleep just made me feel horrid. So I would get home at 1, watch some tv or get some stuff done etc, fall asleep at 2-3 am, and wake up just in time to go back to work.

Meanwhile my paychecks were insanely small. Mind you I had not worked a near min wage job in along time. The paychecks per week were around $500 after taxes, so $2000 total a month, and at this time a 1 bedroom apartment was at least $1000 (although I was currently paying for my home at the time still which was about $1400 total between HOA/Taxes/Mortgage etc). Now most 1 bedroom apartments are more like $1400 total though.

MEanwhile all the normal stuff you need to do, laundry/shopping/bills etc had to be done on the weekend. I had like no time to even play DnD etc, or see friends etc, as I was so busy on the weekends and exhausted as well.

When I was in my 20's and 30's such a schedule wouldn't have been to bad, but you have to realize that while I only did that for awhile, tons of people 50+ are still working jobs that pay $15 or less an hour. While not all of em have to work 50+ hours, it's still a pretty crappy existence since you basically have no money left after paying for the bare neccecities (rent/food/utilities/health insurance/car insurance etc).

I don't think we should just increase min wage though, it's a trap to do so, ALL hourly wages (and salaries under 50k) need to be increased across the board, while controlling rent prices (if you don't control rent prices they increase directly proportionally to wage increases as supply and demand allows property owners to boost the cost to rent as more money is available).

JUST boosting minimum wage hurts everyone even near it, but especially those within 50% of min wage. Many places do not have 15$ an hour min wage yet, which means it hurts those making LESS than $15 an hour more than anyone else. A direct boost from $10 an hour min wage to $15 an hour min wage, screws over more then 50% of the employees in that area (even those making min wage, who got a direct bump STILL end up with less resources after cost of living skyrockets (especially rent).

We need a two pronged solution to the problem, first, a direct and solid restriction on rental prices or rental options that are much cheaper so you drag the other properties down in cost as well (obviously the rich are not going to be for that).

Second a universal salary/wage increase, that doesn't JUST focus on min wage, but on all working wages, basically anything making less than $50k a year, supplimenting almost all 40 hour a week jobs to make at LEAST a living wage (which is calculated based on current cost of living/rent).

IF we can't reduce rental prices, then the min anyone should be paid is 3x whatever the average cost of a 1 bedroom apartment is, for working 40 hours a week.

In my area that is about $1200 at this point, so the minimum wage should be 3x that or $3600 a month for a 40 hour week. That is almost double what I was making at $14 an hour.

With current prices $15 isn't even high enough for min wage anymore, a $20 min wage might work, but only if you reduced or controlled rental prices from increasing proportionally again.

The fact that places with over $1000 a month rent for a 1 bedroom still have $10 min wage or less, is crazy.

Even with the above fix you still have all the retired people who are on a fixed income ($1000 or so a month) etc, who are just basically getting more and more behind finacially. If you don't help them but increase min wage and cost of living drastically, they eventually will all be out on the street. As it is, living on $1000 a month is possible (if you rent a room or something), but it's certainly not easy.

As an aside, starting salary for a teaching in Gilroy CA, 5 years ago was $30,000 a year. You don't get a wage increase for the first 5 years, so if I had remained teaching there, I would still be making 30k right now (actually 35k for me since I had a masters but, most teachers would be making 30k). After taxes that is a bit over $2000 a month again, almost exactly what I made at that company working for $14 an hour (only that was temp, as a teacher I would have received that for 5 years).

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*imagines*

Maybe at that point I can make $80-85k instead of the average $66k I've been making the last three years averaging $16.25 hourly.

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Goldenguy posted...

*imagines*

Maybe at that point I can make $80-85k instead of the average $66k I've been making the last three years averaging $16.25 hourly.

Jesus how many hours are you working? To make 66k at $16.25 hourly, that is about 80 hours a week (16.26*80=$1300 * 52 = $67,600.)

I've done that for short periods (9 months or so, especially when younger), but you gotta get tired of it eventually.

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blu posted...

Imagine needing to spend over 30k a year to live.

its almost like cost of living varies and tons of people are being crushed by medical debt

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Mead posted...

blu posted...
Imagine needing to spend over 30k a year to live.

its almost like cost of living varies and tons of people are being crushed by medical debt

Before long it'll almost impossible to live on less (before taxes at least).

Seriously some places are getting up over 700-800 to RENT A ROOM at this point and if the trend continues that is going to become more and more common.

You can't avoid paying 10-12% of your income in taxes for SS etc, and some places like my state also have 11% sales tax as well.

So yeah, 30k doesn't really go that far. Say you pay just 15% your 30k in taxes, that is a bit above $2k a month after taxes. From there to rent a 1 bedroom apartment is over $1k most places now (average may even be approaching 1.5k), that leaves you a whole $500 left for everything else. Food, car insurance, gas for the car, utilities, medical insurance, phone service, internet service (no longer an option) toiletries etc.

Can you survive on it? For now sure, but your basically spending the bare minimum to survive at this point at 30k, at least in most major cities or even suburbs. You certainly are not saving money and are very dependant on the weekly paycheck.

Honestly $2.5k a month should be the bare minimum now in most places, as anything less can easily leave you with less then $1000 after rent, and with 11% sales tax, that effectively reduces that even further.

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doesn't 70% of the world earn less than 10$ per hour or something like that?

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keyblader1985 posted...

My state minimum is still $7.25.

Same

My sister hasn't ever made over $13/hour before taxes and my spouse is a nurse at a nursing home and I'm 99% sure they don't make $20/hour before taxes.

Wanded posted...

doesn't 70% of the world earn less than 10$ per hour or something like that?

its more like $1-2 per day

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wolfy42 posted...

I don't think we should just increase min wage though, it's a trap to do so, ALL hourly wages (and salaries under 50k) need to be increased across the board, while controlling rent prices (if you don't control rent prices they increase directly proportionally to wage increases as supply and demand allows property owners to boost the cost to rent as more money is available).

JUST boosting minimum wage hurts everyone even near it, but especially those within 50% of min wage. Many places do not have 15$ an hour min wage yet, which means it hurts those making LESS than $15 an hour more than anyone else. A direct boost from $10 an hour min wage to $15 an hour min wage, screws over more then 50% of the employees in that area (even those making min wage, who got a direct bump STILL end up with less resources after cost of living skyrockets (especially rent).

We need a two pronged solution to the problem, first, a direct and solid restriction on rental prices or rental options that are much cheaper so you drag the other properties down in cost as well (obviously the rich are not going to be for that).

Second a universal salary/wage increase, that doesn't JUST focus on min wage, but on all working wages, basically anything making less than $50k a year, supplimenting almost all 40 hour a week jobs to make at LEAST a living wage (which is calculated based on current cost of living/rent).

IF we can't reduce rental prices, then the min anyone should be paid is 3x whatever the average cost of a 1 bedroom apartment is, for working 40 hours a week.

In my area that is about $1200 at this point, so the minimum wage should be 3x that or $3600 a month for a 40 hour week. That is almost double what I was making at $14 an hour.

With current prices $15 isn't even high enough for min wage anymore, a $20 min wage might work, but only if you reduced or controlled rental prices from increasing proportionally again.

The fact that places with over $1000 a month rent for a 1 bedroom still have $10 min wage or less, is crazy.

Even with the above fix you still have all the retired people who are on a fixed income ($1000 or so a month) etc, who are just basically getting more and more behind finacially. If you don't help them but increase min wage and cost of living drastically, they eventually will all be out on the street. As it is, living on $1000 a month is possible (if you rent a room or something), but it's certainly not easy.

Roll in further rent stabilizations for those on fixed incomes in addition to some of what youve laid out. Thatd be a possible solution to the issue of alleviating potential blowback on those folks with a wage increase.

I will disagree that a universal wage increase should be done, at least the same amount on a national level. The cost of living is simply much higher in some areas of the country than it is in others. If the wage increase is the same for, say, folks in West Virginia and NYS, then the increase in dollars will go a lot further for those in WV and thats even with rent stabilization in play (rent decreases like youre advocating likely wouldnt occur at all, sadly, so stabilization is the best for which one could hope).

And the rent stabilization also needs to not be done in the same exact manner across the nation - at least not the amount(s). It should be calculated with median income of the zip code area in mind, not broadly, because thats one of the reasons folks say that affordable housing isnt actually affordable.
Programs like 60/40 and 80/20 federal rent stabilized guidelines (HUD, etc.) have what is considered market rate and income guidelines calculated on a broad state or city level, not per zip as it honestly should be. This ends up with folks in, say, one area of a city or state not qualifying for such rent programs because they dont make the specified income tier to qualify even though the community/zip in which they live mirrors the income that they do make with very few exceptions. So they end up getting shoved to the curb while folks from outside of that area of the state and/or city move in to those units. And thats because the criteria is based on the median income including those in more well-to-do areas of the city and/or state.

Whats maddening is that such programs set aside a number of units (iirc, some 10-20%) for members of the community (that is, the immediate area/zip in which the apartment complex is located) but essentially blacklist those folks from even qualifying because theyre calculating the income requirements too broadly. I worked for a company that built and managed housing under those programs. We had to hit those percentages, but rarely could and then had to go through a bunch of shit to explain why when the simple fucking answer was because the way you, the federal agencies, are calculating this is fucked up. There are others involved like specific percentages of disabled applicants, government workers, homeless, etc.) but none of them posed problems. The percentage of units set aside for community residents, though, ALWAYS presented a problem.

wolfy42 posted...

Jesus how many hours are you working? To make 66k at $16.25 hourly, that is about 80 hours a week (16.26*80=$1300 * 52 = $67,600.)

I've done that for short periods (9 months or so, especially when younger), but you gotta get tired of it eventually.

Mine is assisted by the fact that I get double time after 48 hours. I currently take home on 60 hours what I had on enhanced unemployment (I was lucky enough to only need three weeks of that).

My work is fairly easy, only slightly physical and low stress. I don't usually work a bunch of hours in a week (most commonly 56/60, sometimes 64 or 68), my schtick is working a ton of 8 hour days. I hit October last year before I took my tenth day off.

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Lol. College graduates think they are worth that.

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Goldenguy posted...

Mine is assisted by the fact that I get double time after 48 hours. I currently take home on 60 hours what I had on enhanced unemployment (I was lucky enough to only need three weeks of that).

My work is fairly easy, only slightly physical and low stress. I don't usually work a bunch of hours in a week (most commonly 56/60, sometimes 64 or 68), my schtick is working a ton of 8 hour days. I hit October last year before I took my tenth day off.

Double time is sweet. My job is slowing down now. I just started 40 hour/week schedule last week after 6 months straight of 70 hour weeks. Did 12 hour shifts (double time after 10 hours) and then double time after 48 hours. Plus I got $6 hazard pay bonus for the job because of radiation (which has been cut off for the last month). But man, paycheques were sweet for 6 months. I was clearing $2100/week after taxes because of all the overtime. Mailed in half of my year though

Job is wrapping up now though. Back to no overtime but at least I'll have a life on 4/10s. Won't have to deal with that again until next year

I'm pretty sure the majority of people in the US make less than $20 an hour, so what am I supposed to be imagining? Reality?

I wont normally get out of bed for less than $25/hr.

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zebatov posted...

I wont normally get out of bed for less than $25/hr.

Thats fine. I like to keep the men in (my) bed, anyway...
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new troll
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OhhhJa posted...

Minimum wage is absolutely a problem in the US though.

Or more that the economy is such shit that so many workers are on minimum wage is the problem.

blu posted...

Imagine needing to spend over 30k a year to live.

Well, to live comfortably in many regions, anyway. Like I've mentioned before, I have a cousin who pulls in about $100k a year and lives on maybe $12k/year (I can't imagine it's more than $15k) because he just does cheap airbnb listings.


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Aaantlion posted...

Or more that the economy is such shit that so many workers are on minimum wage is the problem.

Or both. The minimum is completely unacceptable anywhere and nobody is willing to pay more for skills when the population is more skilled than the job market requires.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Or both. The minimum is completely unacceptable anywhere and nobody is willing to pay more for skills when the population is more skilled than the job market requires.

I think wages are going up around here. The virus and high unemployment offers made it so no one could hire. I'm seeing a fast food place near me change it's hiring sign from 10 an hour to 13 an hour in the last couple weeks.

Just pull yourself up by the bootstrap bro. Just work 80+ hours a week bro, save up for a house and pay bills all while keeping your mouth shut and not complaining and bending over to Karen whenever she runs her mouth off for the 15th time this week bro

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Matt_256 posted...

Double time is sweet. My job is slowing down now. I just started 40 hour/week schedule last week after 6 months straight of 70 hour weeks. Did 12 hour shifts (double time after 10 hours) and then double time after 48 hours. Plus I got $6 hazard pay bonus for the job because of radiation (which has been cut off for the last month). But man, paycheques were sweet for 6 months. I was clearing $2100/week after taxes because of all the overtime. Mailed in half of my year though

Job is wrapping up now though. Back to no overtime but at least I'll have a life on 4/10s. Won't have to deal with that again until next year

Double time is lovely haha. Whole reason I even chose this factory but it was the second best choice I've ever made even though I've had to work for what I've made. Our demand seems to slow primarily around election time; but between the start of 2017 and about October last year we largely worked 7 days a week. I personally counted 654 work days in 2018/2019 and I'm certain I was over 300 in 2017.

Definitely not this year though. Had three weeks off for demand shutdown due to covid and several 5/6 day weeks. Only on my fourth 7 day week this year, in fact. Not sure I'll even hit $50k this year *shrug*

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I make a little over 10$ at my current job. Was making minimum wage at my previous one (7.25$) and they still deliberately starved me for hours so I couldn't qualify for anything, lol.

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Goldenguy posted...

Double time is lovely haha. Whole reason I even chose this factory but it was the second best choice I've ever made even though I've had to work for what I've made. Our demand seems to slow primarily around election time; but between the start of 2017 and about October last year we largely worked 7 days a week. I personally counted 654 work days in 2018/2019 and I'm certain I was over 300 in 2017.

Definitely not this year though. Had three weeks off for demand shutdown due to covid and several 5/6 day weeks. Only on my fourth 7 day week this year, in fact. Not sure I'll even hit $50k this year *shrug*

What kind of factory you work in, like car manufacturing?

Gaawa_chan posted...

I make a little over 10$ at my current job. Was making minimum wage at my previous one (7.25$) and they still deliberately starved me for hours so I couldn't qualify for anything, lol.

That's low. I hate that. When I was 18 (about 20 years ago) I worked at a racetrack for my summer job. I'd be getting 40-50 hours a week all summer and when I'd be getting close to having enough hours for benefits/insurance in the last 4-5 weeks they'd start giving me 1 shift per week and some of them weren't even 8 hour shifts lol. Used to piss me off so much.

Some people die and go to the grave
Most people die and go to work

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Im doing alright at $15.whatever an hour right now.

I sure as fuck deserve more, and Im hoping that when I finish school at the end of the year Ill be able to find a job that pays better and is less hours. Well see.

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The job that I work starts people out at minimum wage but it's part-time. I did hear of someone else who worked in a job lateral to mine (also minimum wage) that went to work for Target since they paid more. In fact if most of my coworkers weren't seniors and collect SS, my employer would have excessive staff turnovers.

Imagine making less than $20 an hour when you're over 20 yrs old in 2020.

Being 20 years old, you're still fresh out of high school still trying to figure out life....it's not hard to imagine there are a lot of early 20'ers out there, doing shitty wage-cuck jobs.

Wouldn't be too quick and eager to laugh at that age demographic......however, if they were in their 30s or 40s...that's something to snicker at....

Minimum Wage jobs are supposed to be "starter jobs" for young people to expose themselves in the work-force and how to pay taxes. Now it's being co-op'd by immigrants and basic losers established within, thinking these jobs should be paying well enough to house and feed a small family (along with spinning rims for their Honda hatchback and a gold-plated iphone because they like to delude themselves thinking they belong in a Cardi-B video).

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Joker_X_II posted...

Being 20 years old, you're still fresh out of high school still trying to figure out life....it's not hard to imagine there are a lot of early 20'ers out there, doing shitty wage-cuck jobs.

Wouldn't be too quick and eager to laugh at that age demographic......however, if they were in their 30s or 40s...that's something to snicker at....

Minimum Wage jobs are supposed to be "starter jobs" for young people to expose themselves in the work-force and how to pay taxes. Now it's being co-op'd by immigrants and basic losers established within, thinking these jobs should be paying well enough to house and feed a small family (along with spinning rims for their Honda hatchback and a gold-plated iphone because they like to delude themselves thinking they belong in a Cardi-B video).

I can smell the racism.
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That's the reality for many Americans today sadly. And now America is the new China because labor unions have been rendered ineffective and laws that once protected American workers from abuse have all been watered down severely. Let this marinate for a moment, roughly 70% of the current US production workforce who are paid by the hour are non-White.

Companies in Sweden and Germany now view America as the land of corporate opportunityand worker exploitation. So why not take advantage of a business culture that seeks every chance to increase profits at the expense of U.S. employees.

The average auto worker in the Germany for example earn roughly $67 per hour and in the US it's less than half of that about $33 per hour. Let that marinate for a moment. In most European country it's against the law to work people on the weekend but in America if you're a production worker, you're working most every weekend.

In Virginia for example, Swedish furniture giant Ikea set up a manufacturing plant after it convinced the town of Danville to provide $12 million in tax breaks. It then brought in a union-busting outfit to keep the IAM (International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers) from making a run at employees.

Ikea also cut employee wages and changed work and overtime rules that now say they can force you to work OT whether you want to or not and if you refuse to work OT they bring disciplinary action against an employee.

Needless to say, these measures not only would have been frowned upon by Swedish society, they would've been illegal. They would have been in violation of Sweden's federal labor laws but a certain political party in America has rendered unions and labor laws ineffective.

These foreign companies only set up shop in Right To Work states and non union states. In other words, they have done their homework.

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Joker_X_II posted...

Being 20 years old, you're still fresh out of high school still trying to figure out life....it's not hard to imagine there are a lot of early 20'ers out there, doing shitty wage-cuck jobs.

Wouldn't be too quick and eager to laugh at that age demographic......however, if they were in their 30s or 40s...that's something to snicker at....

Minimum Wage jobs are supposed to be "starter jobs" for young people to expose themselves in the work-force and how to pay taxes. Now it's being co-op'd by immigrants and basic losers established within, thinking these jobs should be paying well enough to house and feed a small family (along with spinning rims for their Honda hatchback and a gold-plated iphone because they like to delude themselves thinking they belong in a Cardi-B video).

I don't think most people expect minimum wage to be enough to live in comfort and single handedly support a small family. It should however be enough for the most basic necessities and it isn't. I could barely afford to eat and get to and from work when I was 20 and I was even making 2 bucks above minimum wage. Had no car payment and was living with my parents at the time rent free. Minimum wage should at least be going up with cost of living but it has remained totally stagnant for decades bro. That's a joke... A joke on the general public perpetrated by giant corporations that know there's nothing we can do about it.

An even bigger joke... you can make three times minimum wage and it's still not enough to comfortably support a small family in this day and age. Perfect for the government though. Both parents have to work and you have no choice but to send your kids off to their re education camps every day

Joker_X_II posted...

Being 20 years old, you're still fresh out of high school still trying to figure out life....it's not hard to imagine there are a lot of early 20'ers out there, doing shitty wage-cuck jobs.

Wouldn't be too quick and eager to laugh at that age demographic......however, if they were in their 30s or 40s...that's something to snicker at....

Minimum Wage jobs are supposed to be "starter jobs" for young people to expose themselves in the work-force and how to pay taxes. Now it's being co-op'd by immigrants and basic losers established within, thinking these jobs should be paying well enough to house and feed a small family (along with spinning rims for their Honda hatchback and a gold-plated iphone because they like to delude themselves thinking they belong in a Cardi-B video).

Lol, who do you think runs the gas stations, the fast food places, the grocery stores, hotels, department stores etc? Literally 40% of jobs pay less than $15 an hour so qualify as a "starter job" by you. The idea of minimum wage jobs being started jobs is very dead (and never really was true), at this point you have more people over the age of 30 working "starter jobs" than people UNDER the age of 30. You have people with bachelors and even Masters degrees working such jobs as well because they can't get a job in their field. Heck I have a family member who used to clear 1 mill a year (ran a travel agency) who worked for Trader Joes for a few years (she now works at a diff travel agency at least).

IF your lucky enough to have a higher paying job, appreciate it, but don't look down your nose at the people doing the jobs that hve to be done (For now) but are making barely enough to live on. The system is screwed up and honestly I'm surprised the current 18-40 year olds have not just thrown there arms up and torn the whole system down cause it's extremely unfair to them.

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Joker_X_II posted...

Being 20 years old, you're still fresh out of high school still trying to figure out life....it's not hard to imagine there are a lot of early 20'ers out there, doing shitty wage-cuck jobs.

Wouldn't be too quick and eager to laugh at that age demographic......however, if they were in their 30s or 40s...that's something to snicker at....

Minimum Wage jobs are supposed to be "starter jobs" for young people to expose themselves in the work-force and how to pay taxes. Now it's being co-op'd by immigrants and basic losers established within, thinking these jobs should be paying well enough to house and feed a small family (along with spinning rims for their Honda hatchback and a gold-plated iphone because they like to delude themselves thinking they belong in a Cardi-B video).

A quick google search shows that 51% of workers make 20 or less an hour.

TC just got his first 20+/hour job
yay

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