Current Events > So covid is spiking nation wide... Why?

(+) Yeah! (+)

You should see the shrill reaction from my local area. One of our judges ordered that people must wear a mask in public for 6 days, then he extended it. He had to make a statement about the level of vitriol in the hate mail that he received. People are fucking crazy.

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legendary_zell posted...

Protesting against state violence and societal oppression outside, with masks, is not the same as going to the beach with no masks or even with masks. Stopping one requires a widespread violation of the first amendment and probably high levels of police violence. The other means you can't go for a swim.

Don't pretend this is about the protests. You'd hate them if scientists eradicated the very concept of disease tomorrow.

These are blatant false equivalences.

It is about privilege -- they're allowed to do shit while others are legally forbidden from gathering (and have been forbidden for months). That's real privilege. And you can't pretend that it's "too dangerous" if you've got hordes of people gathering for other shit. It's a double-standard and everybody has a right to be annoyed.

End the lockdowns already. Or actually enforce them fairly.

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Taharqa_ posted...

You should see the shrill reaction from my local area. One of our judges ordered that people must wear a mask in public for 6 days, then he extended it. He had to make a statement about the level of vitriol in the hate mail that he received. People are fucking crazy.

I do feel there's a pretty big red/blue divide here

Like my state never really shut down, we actually gave people the ability to fish without a license as a thing to encourage social distancing. So these stories about beaches being shut down are foreign to me

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TheGoldenEel posted...

I have provided facts repeatedly, Check the research paper cited in that article about covid in Denver

heres the thing: nearly everyone was concerned that protests would increase the spread of covid. Myself included. But people collectively decided that black lives were something worth protesting for despite that. The majority of people wore masks

so heres how science works though: you create a hypothesis, in this case protests will be superspreading events, and you do studies and collect data to test that hypothesis

and what has been concluded, based on these studies, is that that hypothesis was incorrect, and that protests DID NOT significantly contribute to spreading covid

so whats going on here, is you dont believe a conspiracy theory, you just havent caught up with the newly presented data that shows that what you believe is incorrect, despite it being what conventional logic would suggest and indeed did appear to be the case, prior to actually collecting and analyzing the data

I think we just have to agree to disagree here my dude. You do site your sources, I give you that. Unfortunately an article that talks about how protests lowered the virus seems a bit suspect to me. I just cant get behind that.

you gotta understand, just because its a new story on the internet does not automatically give it credit. So youve done a great job presenting sources, but I just dont think they are not pushing an agenda.

if you wanna say oh man, youre a crazy conspiracy theorist, you should believe it its solid proof. Thats fine. But yea I just cant.

Zeus posted...

It is about privilege -- they're allowed to do shit while others are legally forbidden from gathering (and have been forbidden for months). That's real privilege. And you can't pretend that it's "too dangerous" if you've got hordes of people gathering for other shit. It's a double-standard and everybody has a right to be annoyed.

End the lockdowns already. Or actually enforce them fairly.

agreed. Double standard for sure.

Bleuets posted...

I think we just have to agree to disagree here my dude. You do site your sources, I give you that. Unfortunately an article that talks about how protests lowered the virus seems a bit suspect to me. I just cant get behind that.

you gotta understand, just because its a new story on the internet does not automatically give it credit. So youve done a great job presenting sources, but I just dont think they are not pushing an agenda.

if you wanna say oh man, youre a crazy conspiracy theorist, you should believe it its solid proof. Thats fine. But yea I just cant.

How many times are you going to post the exact same shit? You've done it probably 15-20 times in this topic alone. What's your goal here?

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Bleuets posted...

I think we just have to agree to disagree here my dude. You do site your sources, I give you that. Unfortunately an article that talks about how protests lowered the virus seems a bit suspect to me. I just cant get behind that.

you gotta understand, just because its a new story on the internet does not automatically give it credit. So youve done a great job presenting sources, but I just dont think they are not pushing an agenda.

if you wanna say oh man, youre a crazy conspiracy theorist, you should believe it its solid proof. Thats fine. But yea I just cant.

Youre focusing on that one article

Youre ignoring the other articles showing evidence of protests not causing a spike in covid across the country

but at least youre willing to admit that youre just choosing to believe what you believe even though all evidence points to the contrary

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FursonaNonGrata posted...

How many times are you going to post the exact same shit? You've done it probably 15-20 times in this topic alone. What's your goal here?

conversation, whats yours?

Its fucking rampant here in Texas. Im in the ICU this month, its fucking harrowing. Our whole behavioral health unit was converted to a COVID unit. The ED is a fucking war zone, people pronated on ventilators in the hallways. Ive seen a lot of shit in my medical career, including fetal demises, and this is just harrowing.

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Balrog0 posted...

I do feel there's a pretty big red/blue divide here

Like my state never really shut down, we actually gave people the ability to fish without a license as a thing to encourage social distancing. So these stories about beaches being shut down are foreign to me

Not to me

TBH i dont blame our governor too much. he's sitting in his little wine country bubble up north and im sure he's surrounded by a bunch of people screaming at him about how case rates are going up so we just need to shutdown everything despite there being some good evidence getting out into the sun is beneficial

i went to the beach i think....2 weeks ago maybe? Everyone was 6 feet apart. It was really easy. For the 4th....i'll be curious to see how many people say "fuck off" to the order. The LA sheriff already said they won't be enforcing it so take that for what its worth.

Bleuets posted...

conversation, whats yours?

What you're doing is just responding "I don't believe that" over and over again in the face of scientific data. That's not a conversation, that's sealioning.

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MrPeppers posted...

Its fucking rampant here in Texas. Im in the ICU this month, its fucking harrowing. Our whole behavioral health unit was converted to a COVID unit. The ED is a fucking war zone, people pronated on ventilators in the hallways. Ive seen a lot of shit in my medical career, including fetal demises, and this is just harrowing.

That sucks! Someone was on the local FB group saying the same thing but it ended up being a lie, thankfully. We aren't hit too hard in my city yet but we shall see

FursonaNonGrata posted...

What you're doing is just responding "I don't believe that" over and over again in the face of scientific data. That's not a conversation, that's sealioning.

scientific data that says protests are actually slowing down the virus?! Okay, you and I have a different idea of what scientific data is.

Bleuets posted...

scientific data that says protests are actually slowing down the virus?! Okay, you and I have a different idea of what scientific data is.

That is not what the data says

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Romes187 posted...

That sucks! Someone was on the local FB group saying the same thing but it ended up being a lie, thankfully. We aren't hit too hard in my city yet but we shall see

our anesthesia team intubated a 31 year old yesterday. She has multiple medical comorbidities, but I kind of couldnt believe it. We had to stop her dialysis because she compromised the unit. Someone sent her for it despite her clinical picture and we had to respond to the rapid response that was called. It feels like the hospital is unhinging, but we are barely stable.

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Zeus posted...

It is about privilege -- they're allowed to do shit while others are legally forbidden from gathering (and have been forbidden for months). That's real privilege. And you can't pretend that it's "too dangerous" if you've got hordes of people gathering for other shit. It's a double-standard and everybody has a right to be annoyed.

End the lockdowns already. Or actually enforce them fairly.

You are attempting to co-opt social justice language for multiple regressive points. It's not clever. Stop it. The protesters are exercising the very core of free speech and somehow doing it safely, it appears, while others seek to do nothing that's not. It seems you've already decided that the protests are wrong and dangerous and are working backwards from there. But as counter-intuitive as it seems, they're actually not dangerous from what we know so far. The protests also aren't something that can be postponed. You either strike while the iron is hot or not at all. Going to the beach or pool or bars can wait.

I get being frustrated with the lockdowns. I just moved to a new city where I know almost no one and have had zero social life since March. Despite that, it's clear to me that things wouldn't be better if everyone was running around doing unnecessary things. Telling me not to go to a bar and allowing protests is not oppression.

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Bleuets posted...

Unfortunately an article that talks about how protests lowered the virus seems a bit suspect to me.

"a source goes against my worldview so it's automatically a bad source" isn't an argument on to whether a source is legitimate.
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It sounds completely politically motivated for a hyper contagious virus to inexplicably bypass large crowds just because they are protesting for the right reasons.

RustyFerret posted...

a hyper contagious virus to inexplicably bypass large crowds just because they are protesting for the right reasons.

That would be very strange

fortunately there have been explanations provided, and data to back it up

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It's bypassing the crowds because they're wearing masks almost universally.
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MrPeppers posted...

our anesthesia team intubated a 31 year old yesterday. She has multiple medical comorbidities, but I kind of couldnt believe it. We had to stop her dialysis because she compromised the unit. Someone sent her for it despite her clinical picture and we had to respond to the rapid response that was called. It feels like the hospital is unhinging, but we are barely stable.

yeah unfortunately for people at the hospital they get to see the worst of it all the time. A silver lining is the average age of positive tests is way down. Obviously outliers exist, but using NYC stats, it should limit the deaths as opposed to a higher age of positive tests.

When you extrapolate out to the numbers we're talking, its the difference between a little dead and a lot dead

Fortunately it's not "just because they are protesting for the right reasons"

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Romes187 posted...

For the 4th

Holy crap I'm off this Friday!

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kyujo posted...

Fortunately it's not "just because they are protesting for the right reasons"

oh yes I forgot, everyone at the protests is wearing masks right? Despite pictures in this topic (your proof as it were) showing that aint the case.

Bleuets posted...

I refer you back to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l60MnDJklnM

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people are not doing social distancing ot wearing face masks and it making cases surge

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legendary_zell posted...

Protesting against state violence and societal oppression outside, with masks, is not the same as going to the beach with no masks or even with masks. Stopping one requires a widespread violation of the first amendment and probably high levels of police violence. The other means you can't go for a swim.

Don't pretend this is about the protests. You'd hate them if scientists eradicated the very concept of disease tomorrow.

These are blatant false equivalences.

Where did you get the impression I was pro-beach without masks? Although your position on people going to the beach even with masks exposes your double-standards. If they can do one, they can do both. Its not simply about whatever you feel is worthy. Especially since in these protests people are much closer to others than they would be on a beach or in most other outdoor venues.

Antifar posted...

It's bypassing the crowds because they're wearing masks almost universally.

No they aren't. I've posted screen after screen during the riots/protests at their height in city after city where, at best, maybe 60% were wearing masks. And if it comes down to only masks being important, then the social distancing protocols are nearly irrelevant and should not be harped on only if there are Trump rallies or other gatherings the leftist media disapproves of.

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TheGoldenEel posted...

That would be very strange

fortunately there have been explanations provided, and data to back it up

Except reading through the provided links offers mostly speculative and possible reasons for the spread going by here say when we still are getting contradictory information about how the virus functions and spreads to begin with.

People may have gone to bars and gotten the virus that way, or they had it already from somewhere else and just went to a bar during the time it was incubating inside them without their knowledge. There is no way for an infected or researcher to know for certain.

its a bunch of trash that they are trying to bury the protests as a reason for the spike. Its not the only reason but its one of them

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legendary_zell posted...

You are attempting to co-opt social justice language for multiple regressive points. It's not clever. Stop it. The protesters are exercising the very core of free speech and somehow doing it safely, it appears, while others seek to do unsafe, unnecessary, non time sensitive things that can wait or don't implicate core rights. It seems you've already decided that the protests are wrong and dangerous and are working backwards from there. But as counter-intuitive as it seems, they're actually not dangerous from what we know so far. The protests also aren't something that can be postponed. You either strike while the iron is hot or not at all. Going to the beach or pool or bars can wait.

I get being frustrated with the lockdowns. I just moved to a new city where I know almost no one and have had zero social life since March. Despite that, it's clear to me that things wouldn't be better if everyone was running around doing unnecessary things. Telling me not to go to a bar and allowing protests is not oppression.

Considering that the social justice movement is inherently regressive -- backing segregation (such as suggesting that people shouldn't be allowed to wear certain clothing or do their hair a certain way on the basis of race, or participate in some forms of entertainment, or take some acting roles) among other other problematic tendencies -- you don't have a leg to stand on. Second, your claim that they're "doing it safely" is bullshit, since even the ones wearing masks aren't social-distancing so that claim also goes out the window. Exercising the First Amendment, you claim? Where were you when they were arresting priests for opening up churches? Last I checked, the right to practice religion was part of the First Amendment yet you were fine with that being trampled. And if the First Amendment is being ignored in those other circumstances, how can you pretend that it's anything other than privilege that the protests are allowed to go uninterrupted when other peaceful assembly -- including specifically-protected religious assembly -- isn't being protected?

As for not being able to postpone protests, give me a break. Even if you magically couldn't protest a death months after it happened -- which you absolutely can -- there's *always* another case you can highlight. And keep in mind that even when the facts get debunked (like how Eric Holder and Obama's justice department finally agreed that Mike Brown had gone for the officer's fun), that doesn't stop the narrative. If the COVID precautions are legitimate -- like the government tries to claim -- then there's no way to justify the protests, especially since it's about preserving black lives yet that would be exposing individuals in the black community to risk. However, if -- as I and others have come to realize -- that the COVID precautions are complete bunk (which they'd have to be if you'd allow huge gatherings), then it's time to open up *everything*. And logically if the risk were real, those protests would be shut down harder than the government did to churches.

Either enforce the shutdown equally or end it.

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Cool another high level account spewing right wing horse shit *looks through binoculars*

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onedarksoul posted...

Where did you get the impression I was pro-beach without masks? Although your position on people going to the beach even with masks exposes your double-standards. If they can do one, they can do both. Its not simply about whatever you feel is worthy. Especially since in these protests people are much closer to others than they would be on a beach or in most other outdoor venues.

No they aren't. I've posted screen after screen during the riots/protests at their height in city after city where, at best, maybe 60% were wearing masks. And if it comes down to only masks being important, then the social distancing protocols are nearly irrelevant and should not be harped on only if there are Trump rallies or other gatherings the leftist media disapproves of.

Must've lumped you in with the others. Sorry about that part. But you're wrong about the rest. As I've already stated, I don't have a problem with beach going if its can be done safely, but there's no double standard here. The unstated calculus we're all using is comparing the need to do an activity vs the safety of the activity. That's why work is okay and going to the beach is not, even if the beach is actually safer. Society will collapse without people working while no one needs to go to the beach.

Shifting that to the protests, they are protesting an extremely important, time sensitive set of issues and doing so relatively safely. That's different from the anti-lockdown protesters who by their very actions and ideology were endangering themselves and others because there was significantly less mask wearing and commitment to safety and because they were out there demonstrating against the very measures you're now attempting to use against the BLM folks.

The anti lockdown protests were very dumb and potentially dangerous imo, but it doesn't appears we've had the super spread events from those that people expected either. Basically, as long as people are somehow safe, even against their best efforts, people will need to find another reason to criticize protesting.


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FursonaNonGrata posted...

Cool another high level account spewing right wing horse shit *looks through binoculars*

User Info: FursonaNonGrata

Elite User Since: Feb 2016Karma: 566Active Posts: 69Total Badges: 44
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Rarest: Tagger

Cool another poster jumping onto an alt to spew nonsensical propaganda

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BudDupree48 posted...

its a bunch of trash that they are trying to bury the protests as a reason for the spike. Its not the only reason but its one of them

Remember when the CDC said that BLM protests are safe but protests against stay at home orders were very dangerous?

I swear.


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Zeus posted...

nonsensical propaganda

Nah that's mainly you.
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legendary_zell posted...

As I've already stated, I don't have a problem with beach going if its can be done safely, but there's no double standard here

Alright, cool. Glad to see it.

I'm pro-protest as well. Police reform is badly needed. Just don't like all the hypocrisy that comes along with it.

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DevsBro posted...

Remember when the CDC said that BLM protests are safe but protests against stay at home orders were very dangerous?

I swear.

No lol thats terrible. Safe for their asses maybe

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DevsBro posted...

Remember when the CDC said that BLM protests are safe but protests against stay at home orders were very dangerous?

I swear.

It's like the BLM protests were mostly wearing masks, which help stop the spread of coronavirus, and the ones against the stay-at-home orders are still whining about masks.

This is a disingenuous argument and you know it, but that doesn't stop people from repeating it ad nauseam. If the people protesting the stay-at-home orders were wearing masks, then you'd actually have a point. But they weren't. And some still aren't.

So shut the fuck up.
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

It's like the BLM protests were mostly wearing masks, which help stop the spread of coronavirus, and the ones against the stay-at-home orders are still whining about masks.

This is a disingenuous argument and you know it, but that doesn't stop people from repeating it ad nauseam. If the people protesting the stay-at-home orders were wearing masks, then you'd actually have a point. But they weren't. And some still aren't.

So shut the fuck up.

Then why do they say it that way instead of protests with/without masks?

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why is a new virus, which is passed really easily by common behavior and that we have no medication for spreading so easily?

I swear to god, the really dumb people in horror movies that die first, actually exist in huge numbers.

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BudDupree48 posted...

its a bunch of trash that they are trying to bury the protests as a reason for the spike. Its not the only reason but its one of them

If its all some conspiracy of the liberal media then why did that same liberal media have no problem pushing the narrative a month ago that protests would case outbreaks? Seems foolish to push a narrative if they were just planning on directly contradicting it a few weeks later.

almost like new information came out that changed what we understood

Fauci underscores concerns about protests spreading coronavirus

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/502001-fauci-underscores-concerns-about-protests-spreading-coronavirus?amp

The Protests Will Spread the Coronavirus

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/612460/

Will Protests Set Off a Second Viral Wave?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/health/protests-coronavirus.amp.html

CDC warns of protests and COVID-19 spread

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/06/cdc-warns-protests-and-covid-19-spread

I didnt care if I was exposed to COVID: Protesters anger outweighed their fear of getting sick

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/02/texas-protests-george-floyd-coronavirus/amp/

The protests are raising fears of a spike in coronavirus cases

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/01/health/protests-coronavirus-spread-concerns/index.html

Really scary: experts fear protests and police risk accelerating Covid-19 spread

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/03/protests-police-covid-19-coronavirus-spread

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Even though the people hit by this new wave are waaaaaay stupider than the people before, this is just realllllly bad news.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

It's like the BLM protests were mostly wearing masks, which help stop the spread of coronavirus, and the ones against the stay-at-home orders are still whining about masks.

This is a disingenuous argument and you know it, but that doesn't stop people from repeating it ad nauseam. If the people protesting the stay-at-home orders were wearing masks, then you'd actually have a point. But they weren't. And some still aren't.

So shut the fuck up.

Do you fucking realize the screaming and droplets that funnel out of peoples mouth at those protests. Masks help but they aren't fool proof. Gather 20000 people in a packed area is a fucking moronic thing to due in the pandemic. I get the message but it seems like they didn't care or it was a sacrifice they were making because of how bad things were.

Protip: maybe dont tell people to shut the fuck up at the slightest hint of varying opinion from your ignorant self if you want to be taken just a little more seriously

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DevsBro posted...

Then why do they say it that way instead of protests with/without masks?

Because one set of protests were wearing masks and the other set of protests weren't wearing masks.

That's not to say that one side of protests is inherently right or another. It's just that one side is at least somewhat treating COVID like it's a legitimate thing and the other side is arguing that it isn't.

If the BLM protests were on a whole not wearing masks, then it'd likely be something like what you said. But again, the BLM protests have been more wearing masks than not.
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Because one set of protests were wearing masks and the other set of protests weren't wearing masks.

That's not to say that one side of protests is inherently right or another. It's just that one side is at least somewhat treating COVID like it's a legitimate thing and the other side is arguing that it isn't.

If the BLM protests were on a whole not wearing masks, then it'd likely be something like what you said. But again, the BLM protests have been more wearing masks than not.

You got data to prove this or do you like conversing from your ass?

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BudDupree48 posted...

Do you fucking realize the screaming and droplets that funnel out of peoples mouth at those protests. Masks help but they aren't fool proof. Gather 20000 people in a packed area is a fucking moronic thing to due in the pandemic. I get the message but it seems like they didn't care or it was a sacrifice they were making because of how bad things were.

Protip: maybe dont tell people to shut the fuck up at the slightest hint of varying opinion from your ignorant self if you want to be taken just a little more seriously

Wow, I forgot that I posted that wearing a mask means that you can't get coronavirus. Silly me.

Oh wait, I didn't? I just said that it's trying to help not spread the virus? Wow, that's fucking crazy.
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