Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 307: Tulsa Staggered

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turbopuns3 posted...

Like...ugh, I'm really getting worn out and just plain hot so I should stop lol but in all seriousness yes they did have months of advance warning that they could mail in votes if they wanted and that doors would close at 6pm. Lots of parking around the area near deadline? Like...uh, yeah guys? You should have anticipated that haha.

Or

Or

They could have not closed 95% of their polling places to cause those conditions.

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turbopuns3 posted...

Right, and I'm pretty sure the problem here is that "in line" in this case meant in the door. Thus these people were not "in line". They were still walking up to the building and parking and whatnot.

I'm not saying that's a good situation but it's not like they suddenly broke the rules or something. It was definitely a shortcoming of planning by...well, by many people.

That they're cutting off people who were there on time but not in the door is specifically what I'm objecting to. People should not have to have anticipated absurd lines to actually be able to vote.

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Like I'm sorry Pun but with everything you've said you still haven't defended the closing of 95% of polling places, or even tried to excuse it.

You just keep responding with what amounts to "Yeah, but..."

And that's the problem. There is nothing that can come after "but" that matters. There is no excuse or way to balance it out. No matter what else they've offered, closing 95% of polling sites is a voter suppression nightmare there's no way to roll that back other than opening them up again.

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The onus should not be on voters to have to go through hoops to vote. It should be on the state to make it easy for them. Full stop.

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You're looking at it skewed. Should people have been able to anticipate long lines or needing to request ballots or having to find transportation to vote? Sure. Should they be expected to? Hell no

Voting isn't a privilege, it's a right. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops, no matter how "reasonable", to do it. In practice, that means giving everybody eligible an opt- out mail in ballot, allowing everybody who shows on time to vote, and not reducing the number of polling places/area to below some acceptable threshold

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NFUN posted...

You're looking at it skewed. Should people have been able to anticipate long lines or needing to request ballots or having to find transportation to vote? Sure. Should they be expected to? Hell no

Voting isn't a privilege, it's a right. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops, no matter how "reasonable", to do it. In practice, that means giving everybody eligible an opt- out mail in ballot, allowing everybody who shows on time to vote, and not reducing the number of polling places/area to below some acceptable threshold

This exactly. This isn't the same thing as a concert or a basketball game or something, where the venue can just close the doors with people in line and tell them "tough luck". It's a matter of denying people's constitutional rights, no matter how knowledgeable or prepared each voter is. Puns keeps saying things like "it was in the news for weeks! they should have been prepared", which aren't very good reasons to deny someone their constitutional rights, which are guaranteed to all citizens no matter how 'prepared' they are.

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Trump is giving a speech right now. Some snippets (paraphrasing):

Their message is based on hate. Our message is based on love. Love of family, love of country, etc.

This is going to be the most fraudulent election in history.

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He appears confused about how absentee ballots work. He says that he lives in the White House and might not be able to make it to Florida to vote, so he can vote absentee and it's okay.

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There is a lot of noise about the new relief bill targeting the unemployed and "most in need" that it seems hard to see how an unemployment boost of sometime isn't gonna happen again.

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Also, I always love when they show pictures of people who try to rush the polls at the end at stations that were dead all day and try to show how that was voter suppression. Show the polling station all day to provide context if the argument is voter suppression.

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people have jobs.

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https://www.cbssports.com/nascar/news/fbi-determines-no-federal-crime-was-committed-against-bubba-wallace-while-investigating-noose-in-his/

This is like the 2nd or 3rd supposed noose story in the recent weeks which ended up being a non-story.


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Corrik7 posted...

Also, I always love when they show pictures of people who try to rush the polls at the end at stations that were dead all day and try to show how that was voter suppression. Show the polling station all day to provide context if the argument is voter suppression.

Are you aware that some people have jobs and cannot make it to the polling station until the end of the day?

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https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1275573547079839744?s=21
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changmas posted...

Are you aware that some people have jobs and cannot make it to the polling station until the end of the day?

Not voter suppression that people rushed a polling station as it was closing.

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Go to a grocery store at 11am.

Go back at 5pm.

You'll see the same phenomenon.

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Corrik7 posted...

Not voter suppression that people rushed a polling station as it was closing.

It literally is if they were waiting in line at the time that voting closed.

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Oh, the reason for closing the polling places was the vast majority of them were tiny cramped spaces which are dangerous with the pandemic. They consolidated to have fewer places that are big open areas with lots more machines per location. I just assumed that part was understood when I said forever ago that the governor came up with this plan in april as a reaction to covid

changmas posted...

It literally is if they were waiting in line at the time that voting closed.

It's not voter suppression if people rushed a polling station as it closed. Simple as that.

https://www.businessinsider.com/can-i-leave-work-early-to-vote-2016-11

Even states that don't have that as a law have many companies that let you also. For example, both my last jobs in PA despite being jobs requiring you to work 24/7/365 and you being critical to the job would have foreman work your job for a reasonable amount of time for you to go vote while being paid in midterms, elections, and union votes.

That said, election day (presidential every 4 years) should be a holiday and guaranteed in every state.

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Corrik7 posted...

Not voter suppression that people rushed a polling station as it was closing.

More polling stations being open = less likely to be a line = more likely to get inside in time.

Taking away those stations and then still locking the doors even as people wait in line is suppression.

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Technically all voting in America from the get go has been surpressed, and will be until voting day becomes a holiday.

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3700 polling locations = a few people show up too late at every single location and you never see it on the news

200 polling locations = lots of people show up late to the same place and feel they have been wronged somehow

turbopuns3 posted...

Oh, the reason for closing the polling places was the vast majority of them were tiny cramped spaces which are dangerous with the pandemic. They consolidated to have fewer places that are big open areas with lots more machines per location. I just assumed that part was understood when I said forever ago that the governor came up with this plan in april as a reaction to covid

The solution being "Instead of having small crowds of people at multiple stations, let's have large crowds of people wait in line at one station" doesn't make sense to any logical person.

Closing the polling stations wasn't Beshear's idea. The other parts were. He either went along with closing the stations to get the stuff he wanted, or he's incredibly naive.

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3700 polling locations = people show up near the deadline and vote.

200 polling locations = lots of people try to show up near the deadline and now there is a traffic jam and they show up late instead.

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turbopuns3 posted...

3700 polling locations = a few people show up too late at every single location and you never see it on the news

200 polling locations = lots of people show up late to the same place and feel they have been wronged somehow

...Okay now I assume you're trolling.

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I am finding it tougher to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1274819230865784832?s=09

Cops are rioting still, don't let it leave your head space. None of this is over.

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Like, it's not that hard to see the issue.

3700 polling locations = You show up at 20-25 minutes til and you're gonna still have time to park and get inside, even if cutting it close.

200 polling locations = If you show up at 20-25 minutes til and there's a long line of traffic/parking takes you 30 minutes, you just got screwed over.

And no, the traffic jam/parking issues are not a "It's the voter's fault" scenario.

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Great analogy Donald

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1275574826531512320?s=21
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StealThisSheen posted...

Like, it's not that hard to see the issue.

3700 polling locations = You show up at 20-25 minutes til and you're gonna still have time to park and get inside, even if cutting it close.

200 polling locations = If you show up at 20-25 minutes til and there's a long line of traffic/parking takes you 30 minutes due to limited polling stations, you just got screwed over.

And no, the traffic jam/parking issues are not a "It's the voter's fault" scenario.

Not to worry. Ya got all the time in the world to stop by the clerk's office to vote or just simply drop it in the mail. Takes no time!

Does... Does he think those wars happened here?

Does he think people were dodging gunfire running to the polls?

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turbopuns3 posted...

Not to worry. Ya got all the time in the world to stop by the clerk's office to vote or just simply drop it in the mail. Takes no time!

So yes, you're trolling.

Okay.

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You all think I'm not in good faith here but you're defending adults who, given 2 months notice about a deadline, did not take actions to prepare to either mail in or be there on time. Sorry but like no pity party from me there. You're so dead set on this being a cruel evil thing and I don't see it. Guess I just won't see it.

Polls have been 6-6 for my entire life I think.

StealThisSheen posted...

Does... Does he think those wars happened here?

Does he think people were dodging gunfire running to the polls?

Maybe he think the soldiers all flew home to vote and then went back
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turbopuns3 posted...

You all think I'm not in good faith here but you're defending adults who, given 2 months notice about a deadline, did not take actions to prepare to either mail in or be there on time. Sorry but like no pity party from me there. You're so dead set on this being a cruel evil thing and I don't see it. Guess I just won't see it.

People are fucking morons when it comes to most things, we can agree with this.

Morons have a right to vote.

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turbopuns3 posted...

You all think I'm not in good faith here but you're defending adults who, given 2 months notice about a deadline, did not take actions to prepare to either mail in or be there on time. Sorry but like no pity party from me there. You're so dead set on this being a cruel evil thing and I don't see it. Guess I just won't see it.

A lot of people here have problems accepting that other people can disagree with them. It's easier for them to handwave it away by saying that other people must be trolling.

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red13n posted...

Morons have a right to vote.

New Biden slogan
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Jakyl25 posted...

New Biden slogan

I miss February.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Maybe he think the soldiers all flew home to vote and then went back

That is in fact what Lincoln had the soldiers do in 1864.

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turbopuns3 posted...

You all think I'm not in good faith here but you're defending adults who, given 2 months notice about a deadline, did not take actions to prepare to either mail in or be there on time. Sorry but like no pity party from me there. You're so dead set on this being a cruel evil thing and I don't see it. Guess I just won't see it.

Polls have been 6-6 for my entire life I think.

Because whether they're morons or not, morons still have a legal right to vote, and actively taking steps that impact that right to vote negatively are objectively bad, whether you're capable of empathy, yourself, or not.

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Like gosh dang you guys are being like college professors who hear "my dog ate my homework" and your reaction is to apologize to the student for your transgressions

Jakyl25 posted...

New Biden slogan

"If you're a moron, you shouldn't vote for me." That sounds more like Biden.

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Also, as someone who is personally late to a lot of things (like boarding flights) by a few minutes, I completely sympathize with people who are a bit late here.

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turbopuns3 posted...

or be there on time.

Also, the problem isn't that they weren't there on time.

The problem is that they WERE there on time, but the polling station was not equipped to get them in the doors quickly enough, yet closed on time anyway. And that is not the fault of the voters, no matter how many times you want to call them "lazy" or "morons." It's a DIRECT product of making all of those people have to go to one polling station only.

You are so damn determined to make this "It's the voters' fault, blame the voters" and don't want to accept there's any blame at all on the other side.

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It's real simple, literally all that matters is how many polling places are open. The alternative voting methods are not factored in in the slightest, there's really only two takes: It's voter suppression to close 95% of the sites, or you think they are justified in closing 95% of the sites.

"It's bad they closed 95% of the sites, BUT..." isn't a valid stance.

No buts!

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turbopuns3 posted...

Like gosh dang you guys are being like college professors who hear "my dog ate my homework" and your reaction is to apologize to the student for your transgressions

Be careful. You are close to being canceled by the usual suspects in these topics.

That said, it is on the voters. It was irresponsibly trying to rush at the deadline. You can't keep the slippery slope of extending deadlines or they literally will never end.

Especially when the "they worked all day" argument - doubt many of them worked 6am-4pm shifts - dies when you realize Kentucky is a state that lets you go to vote if you work that day.

These articles are always misleading because they don't provide context. That's why voter suppression arguments are rarely as stated and typically are framed.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I miss February.

I still think back to the time where Sanders campaign was all but dead and I was watching CNN, and as soon as the polls closed in Mississippi I think the CNN chyron showed a huge Sanders head with the headline "SANDERS WINS MISSISSIPPI". Turned out it was a hilarious glitch (and I should've known it was a hilarious glitch) but those were the last three seconds of happiness for me during the campaign.

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red sox 777 posted...

A lot of people here have problems accepting that other people can disagree with them. It's easier for them to handwave it away by saying that other people must be trolling.

saying "ok guys i'm done with this argument" only to return shortly afterwards does come across somewhat trollish >_>

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Gonna ask a potentially ignorant question

These votes were primaries right? Who benefits from suppression in that instance
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turbopuns3 posted...

Like gosh dang you guys are being like college professors who hear "my dog ate my homework" and your reaction is to apologize to the student for your transgressions

what
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