Current Events > "Dark Souls needs an easy mode!!!"

(+) Yeah! (+)

You know, you really want to make me play FTL. But I suck at RTS Strategy games. I think the game should give me an option to play it as third person platforming shooter. How they accomplish this is simply a question of mechanics and not relevant at all. More options are good, and if they refuse to do so, I'm going to whine on the internet about it and deflect.

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Player option is only a good thing and no one should be angry about it but this argument needs to be made for every game.

In DMC there's an item that freezes all the enemies and let's you breeze through the game however it is completely shunned by the DMC community to use it which is stupid.

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loafy013 posted...

You know, you really want to make me play FTL. But I suck at RTS Strategy games. I think the game should give me an option to play it as third person platforming shooter. How they accomplish this is simply a question of mechanics and not relevant at all. More options are good, and if they refuse to do so, I'm going to whine on the internet about it and deflect.

I'd have no problem at all with FTL adding a 3rdperson shooter option

would be really weird if I did

Veggeta X posted...

Player option is only a good thing and no one should be angry about it but this argument needs to be made for every game

Only DS fans oppose it
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Not an easy mode, but maybe a not so creepy and anxiety inducing mode. That would be helpful.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

See here's your problem.

Absolutely no one said that. You didn't read the discussion, you just had a pre-prepared evasion and didn't even check to realize it doesn't work.

These's nothing wrong with it and you could easily make a new topic about it.

But it's not relevant to the discussion at hand. Google "How much is the tea in China?"

People are arguing "Player option is a terrible thing." then when asked why the counter argument of "Well if they put in options that sucked and broke the game for everyone, that would suck."

Which is such a lazy evasion and strawman it's not even funny.

Actually, I have been reading the discussion. Ive asked you the question multiple times and all I get in response is It doesnt matter. Ive already responded to that. I did t ask if it mattered, I asked what easy mode looks like to you. Is it even that difficult a question to answer?

Look, Ive been reading topics like this since Demons Souls, Darks predecessor. You will note that at no point in this topic have I parroted the standard response, do X and youre playing in easy mode. I have merely asked your opinion about what an easy mode would entail. There is no need for a separate topic on the matter, which you will pointedly ignore anyway.

If youre not going to answer the question, man up and say so instead of dodging around like a Dark Souls player in PvP.


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uwnim posted...

Not an easy mode, but maybe a not so creepy and anxiety inducing mode. That would be helpful.

I assure if they did an easy mode, it'd be just as lazy as a NG+ mode, but in a different direction.

Same environment, but lower enemy HP and damage output. That'd be it.
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If the point of the game is developing a catered hard experience, Id rather they not take the time they could use to refine the experience to make unnecessary features to expand their audience by 3%.

I just have no interest in the game

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Balrog0 posted...

I just have no interest in the game

Its not for everybody.

And thats ok.

Everybody is going to be ok.

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philsov posted...

I assure if they did an easy mode, it'd be just as lazy as a NG+ mode, but in a different direction.

Same environment, but lower enemy HP and damage output. That'd be it.

Yeah, which wouldnt do a thing to help me. The games dont feel overly difficult, it is a very fair sort of difficulty that I can learn from. But the environment and whatnot, that is why I cant get very far in them.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvBzFPmihkA

lisa frank mod
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i just dont see the meaningful difference between selecting an option that says "easy mode" versus playing with summons, or with a tower shield build or whatever

Pythagorass posted...

i just dont see the meaningful difference between selecting an option that says "easy mode" versus playing with summons, or with a tower shield build or whatever

An easy mode would allow you to play with any build and still win. Needing to cheese the system to make it easy limits the play style. I say its up to the player to make up for their own deficiencies.

nemu posted...

An easy mode would allow you to play with any build and still win. Needing to cheese the system to make it easy limits the play style. I say its up to the player to make up for their own deficiencies

yeah, i knew this when i made my post

SwayM posted...

Dont tell someone to back their nonsense with any form of reasoning because you know they cannot and therefore shouldnt be arguing in a subject they know nothing about.

Hilarious.

This is some of the worst logic Ive ever seen on CE. Congrats for that I guess.

You must not read your own topics because this is rich coming from you. The same user who made a topic complaining about harmless, popular trends that kids like then when everyone mocked you for it, you doubled down and cried.

You must have not had your nap in yet, SwayM.

meralonne posted...

How dare I attempt to discuss a suggestion on a discussion board

Chill out. All Im saying is its not relevant to the what we are discussing. The question of how an easy mode can be implemented in Dark Souls deserves its own topic because theres a lot of potential discussion there. However, by shifting focus, we are deviating from the original question. Lets talk about one thing first and when everyone reaches some sort of agreement or compromise, then we can talk about how an easy mode would be implemented.

Theres something I want to point out but I need to read the entire topic again to make sure nobody has brought it up first so give me a few moments. Its a long topic with lengthy replies.


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This has been going on long enough. This is all Im going to say on the actual subject in question.

They created a game that challenges players fairly and consistently, spawned an entire genre and sold like gangbusters.

Not good enough. Add an easy mode

An easy mode changes the entire game design and spits in the face of the lengths they took to make a game that equally challenges players and encourages a cohesive online system, cooperatively and competitively in an RPG, nearly unheard of in any other game.

Im not listening to any of that. I want an easy mode

You speak of someone with no experience within the game itself. Its designed with failure in mind but respects the player enough to figure it out or try new options within it. It gives you all the tools you need to beat it within the game already. The challenge is baked into the core design and its yearned for and celebrated by players. What you ask for is a clear failure to understand the what the game is trying to do and change in in a way thats intrinsically baked into its core design.

I think repeating questions that have been answered and refusing to understand basic arguments, or fundamental aspects of game design gives me any weight in this discussion

Unfortunately this may not be the experience for you But thats really okay. You cant make a perfect game and Dark Souls definitely doesnt aspire to be anything more than what it is. Its design has given it the following and appreciation it deserves and you cant will it to change from a platform of ignorance. You arent the target audience and they have made that clear with 5 going on 6 games in this style and not one of them willing to compromise in the core design.

Do not try to summarize what Ive just written or continue to ask questions that have long been answered.

You want a fun thought experiment as a parting gift though? Take into consideration the correlation between being unable to allow a game to humble and challenge you or conceding an argument when youre wrong and have a topic full of people explaining it to you. Perhaps, maybe, the problem is you.

But thats my 2 cents.

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Here's the response from the Dark Souls team:

I don't expect to get a genuine response from this, and it may have already been covered - but what say you to the idea that summon signs and various pieces of gear like the Drake Sword etc are examples of dynamic difficulty, and therefore arguably better than just a standard difficulty option setting?

Stalolin posted...

I don't expect to get a genuine response from this, and it may have already been covered - but what say you to the idea that summon signs and various pieces of gear like the Drake Sword etc are examples of dynamic difficulty, and therefore arguably better than just a standard difficulty option setting?

the response is usually "i want difficulty modes so i can play the game any way i want"

Pythagorass posted...

the response is usually "i want difficulty modes so i can play the game any way i want"

and I want a date with Daisy Ridley but it ain't gon happen.

Stalolin posted...

and I want a date with Daisy Ridley but it ain't gon happen.

ok

Stalolin posted...

I don't expect to get a genuine response from this, and it may have already been covered - but what say you to the idea that summon signs and various pieces of gear like the Drake Sword etc are examples of dynamic difficulty, and therefore arguably better than just a standard difficulty option setting?

Yeah I played Dark Souls on Switch mostly on a train. Which isn't an ideal way to play. But I used some guides and tips for stuff like that. It makes a huge difference difficulty wise. I don't think people who complain about this know how variable Dark Souls is with its difficulty.

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Darmik posted...

Yeah I played Dark Souls on Switch mostly on a train. Which isn't an ideal way to play. But I used some guides and tips for stuff like that. It makes a huge difference difficulty wise. I don't think people who complain about this know how variable Dark Souls is with its difficulty.

Indeed.

https://imgur.com/JkgKUhd

Stalolin posted...

I don't expect to get a genuine response from this, and it may have already been covered - but what say you to the idea that summon signs and various pieces of gear like the Drake Sword etc are examples of dynamic difficulty, and therefore arguably better than just a standard difficulty option setting?

They want an option to make the game an easy mode. Not ways to make the game easier.

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what say you to the idea that summon signs and various pieces of gear like the Drake Sword etc are examples of dynamic difficulty, and therefore arguably better than just a standard difficulty option setting?

i think it's a better take on the concept, but i see issue where new players aren't going to know about much of it. a new player isn't going to shoot the tail off of the drake unless you tell them to. i can't remember how the game teaches you the summoning mechanic but i'm not sure it ever specifies to go human form. i think sun dude is just 'fam look for my sign'.

on the other hand, a lot of these easy-mode buttons are hidden really well, but also hidden really early. it's as if they knew people would struggle and turn to a guide and that's where they hid the easy mode. drake sword. rite of kindling.

i think if someone made a 'how to get op in dark souls in 10 minutes' vid and all it did was show the run down to the dragon covenant new players could try the run until they get it. that said, it's an example where the game punishes and limits tries, because of the basilisks. every time, you run the risk of getting cursed.
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Pancake posted...

what say you to the idea that summon signs and various pieces of gear like the Drake Sword etc are examples of dynamic difficulty, and therefore arguably better than just a standard difficulty option setting?

i think it's a better take on the concept, but i see issue where new players aren't going to know about much of it. a new player isn't going to shoot the tail off of the drake unless you tell them to. i can't remember how the game teaches you the summoning mechanic but i'm not sure it ever specifies to go human form. i think sun dude is just 'fam look for my sign'.

on the other hand, a lot of these easy-mode buttons are hidden really well, but also hidden really early. it's as if they knew people would struggle and turn to a guide and that's where they hid the easy mode. drake sword. rite of kindling.

i think if someone made a 'how to get op in dark souls in 10 minutes' vid and all it did was show the run down to the dragon covenant new players could try the run until they get it. that said, it's an example where the game punishes and limits tries, because of the basilisks. every time, you run the risk of getting cursed.

I think this was all on purpose yeah. Basically they want the community to come together and find ways to figure out shortcuts and ways to make the game easier for each other.

In order to make an effective easy mode they would really need to have a whole bunch of tutorial tips which really takes away a lot of the mysticism of the game.

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Darmik posted...

I think this was all on purpose yeah. Basically they want the community to come together and find ways to figure out shortcuts and ways to make the game easier for each other.

In order to make an effective easy mode they would really need to have a whole bunch of tutorial tips which really takes away a lot of the mysticism of the game.

Which goes back to the diatribe I had about three pages ago where I said everything is very purposefully linked.

Darmik posted...

I think this was all on purpose yeah. Basically they want the community to come together and find ways to figure out shortcuts and ways to make the game easier for each other.

In order to make an effective easy mode they would really need to have a whole bunch of tutorial tips which really takes away a lot of the mysticism of the game.

Plus they would miss out on the fun of seeing the sign of an illusionary wall then hitting the wall only to hear the CLANK!

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Basically they want the community to come together and find ways to figure out shortcuts and ways to make the game easier for each other.

i'm concerned that i'm giving them too much credit, like i'm forming my answer to fit the question. but let's say a game dev did decide to hide a powerful item behind something that is logically obscured from the rest of the game experience and you did practically have to use a guide to get it. in a game like this, a player that isn't struggling doesn't have to stop and slow down and consult a guide and won't see the 'don't miss this sweet sword' warning.
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The_Scarecrow posted...

You must not read your own topics because this is rich coming from you. The same user who made a topic complaining about harmless, popular trends that kids like then when everyone mocked you for it, you doubled down and cried.

You must have not had your nap in yet, SwayM.

Whos the one crying when its months later and you still bring it up? The first time I made a topic saying why these kids making up words for shit we already define and a bunch of CEmen like you threw a fit at me like I was the one using the word. Trying to tell me thats not what it means. And then I literally link a one of the thousand compilation vids on YouTube these kids are uploading and one of the many examples of how its being used and yall shut up real quick.

Then cut to, last month? When I just repeated those steps exactly and shit yall up again.

Why do you continue to pick a fight you keep losing? Some masochist shit my dude.


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UnfairRepresent posted...

If tomorrow Capcom patched in optional easy mode for the digital versions of Dead Rising 1. No one would care.

< 0.1% of Capcom fans would have a problem with it.

Dead Rising is not Dark Souls, Capcom is not From Software, and series fans are not the series creator.

Btw, 100% of DS' creator (Miyazaki), has a problem with it. He said, "[different difficulties] fragment the user base."

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Dead Rising has the timer anyway. Which was where the difficulty in that game came from. Fans of the series were spot on that removing it or trying to make it optional would impact its design. Which is why that franchise is dead.

I'm not sure what a patched easy mode for Dead Rising would look like either anyway.

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The_Scarecrow posted...

Chill out. All Im saying is its not relevant to the what we are discussing.

Im perfectly chill, thank you. And it is relevant based on how an easy mode is implemented, because this game has online elements that may or may not affect other players experience based on how an easy mode is implemented.

Look, Ive beaten every Souls game multiple times. This does not make me some kind of hardcore elite gamer. Souls difficulty is highly overrated to begin with. That said, I dont really care if some kind of easy mode were there, but the devil is in the details.

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Difficulty options are baked seamlessly into the games and world/story. Which is great from a immersion and artistic standpoint. One must also acknowledge the multiplayer aspects and keeping that experience unified. Even games without multiplayer (Sekiro) do consciously offer additional baked in options (Charm, Bell).

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Pancake posted...

i think if someone made a 'how to get op in dark souls in 10 minutes' vid and all it did was show the run down to the dragon covenant new players could try the run until they get it. that said, it's an example where the game punishes and limits tries, because of the basilisks. every time, you run the risk of getting cursed.

Got one almost as good as that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkzALNaBK-4

He walks you through up to the first boss. Which, as anybody who has played the game knows, is Aava, the king's pet.

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absolutely. you need to kill aava before you can get the fashion ring, the most important ring in the entire game.
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i need to play fashion souls again

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fashion:

2>1>3
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Pancake posted...

fashion:

2>1>3

This is not true simply because 3 has options form both games before it and all the new things it brings to the table as well. Mourne set alone dunks on the other 2


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ds3's fashion is awful and they screwed up what they *did* bring in. why does the elite knight set make me look fat?
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Pancake posted...

ds3's fashion is awful and they screwed up what they *did* bring in. why does the elite knight set make me look fat?

Get the fuck outta here with that shit! Elite Knight set looks fine. My only issue is that gave it jingle jangle armor sound instead of the clunk clunk

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i would get outta here but the inherited weight from the way the elite knight set looks has me firmly immobile.
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Oh c'mon it's not like your Bobby Havel over there

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i have a look man. i had fashion that i wanted to keep going for the third game but nooooo, they took the dingy robe out and they made the leather boots look goofy.
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There are plenty of good robes to choose from!

I never got the Dingy Set anyway because I always kill Lautrec in Firelink Shrine. I'm not letting that fucker get my girl Anastasia

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*grumps*

they didn't even let me keep the singer's dress. hello? my alt build was a weeb!
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SwayM posted...

Whos the one crying when its months later and you still bring it up? The first time I made a topic saying why these kids making up words for shit we already define and a bunch of CEmen like you threw a fit at me like I was the one using the word. Trying to tell me thats not what it means. And then I literally link a one of the thousand compilation vids on YouTube these kids are uploading and one of the many examples of how its being used and yall shut up real quick.

Then cut to, last month? Bring this up in a completely unrelated topic. When I just repeated those steps exactly and shit yall shut up again.

Why do you continue to pick a fight you keep losing? Some masochist shit my dude.

My computer reset and my entire reply was lost. Definitely not typing that again. I'll give you the short version.

No CEmen threw a fit at you in that topic. We all laughed at you because of the ridiculousness of your post. There's a difference. Nobody on this board take you seriously enough to engage with you and explain properly why you're wrong. I don't recall bringing this up last month unless you're talking about a different user. I do think it's humorous that you become very defensive when someone challenges you and calls out your antics. Maybe you shouldn't make those type of topics if you're sensitive and can't take the heat. Just a thought.

meralonne posted...

Im perfectly chill, thank you. And it is relevant based on how an easy mode is implemented, because this game has online elements that may or may not affect other players experience based on how an easy mode is implemented.

Look, Ive beaten every Souls game multiple times. This does not make me some kind of hardcore elite gamer. Souls difficulty is highly overrated to begin with. That said, I dont really care if some kind of easy mode were there, but the devil is in the details.

As I said, it's worth talking about but reach a consensus on the original question first.

I don't think anyone arguing against easy mode in Dark Souls has brought this up in this thread but correct me if I'm wrong. The most objective and arguable point against an easy mode in these games is something along the lines of budget, time, manpower, etc. Creating an easy mode would take time, money, employees and that could very well detract from the other content in the game especially if the developers cared enough to not just buff/debuff and call it a day.

Some of you guys are forgetting about how everyone is different. Yes, you may switch to an easy mode and think "Wow, I don't like this at all. It takes away from the experience I know". That's fine but there are many people who are still going to enjoy the game regardless and that's what matters at the end of the day. Player choice isn't a bad thing because it allows more people to enjoy the game. You know, the reason why video games exist in the first place. If FromSoftware implemented a difficulty option at the start asking if you're an experienced player or new player, just pick the experienced player option and move on with your day. It's not a big deal.

Most people aren't good at video games at all. I've had to point out how Sonic Mania had a jump button to friends. I've watched people play Smash and not know anything about how to recover or even shield despite not being new to the series. You may think "How do these people exist?". Well, they do and plenty of them want to play Souls/FromSoftware titles for whatever reason. If you guys are still curious on how an easy mode would be implemented, look at something like Jedi Fallen Order which is very similar to Sekiro for example. It's difficulty levels affects enemy aggression, incoming damage, parry times, and enemy A.I. Sekiro already has a similar mechanic called the Demon Bell that makes the game harder for people looking for a challenge.

Furthermore, an alleged insider who apparently has a good reputation has mentioned that FromSoftware is considering adjusting Elden Ring's difficulty. Like it or not, they may already be making the game more accessible for a variety of players. Some people here have argued that having an easy mode is not within From's vision for the game. Judging from Sekiro itself and potentially with future titles, seems like the devs are open to the idea of giving players more options aka player choice. That's all I'm really going to say on this subject. If you disagree, that's fine. Agree to disagree. I have no interest in talking circles with anyone. This topic has almost 300 posts and neither side can form some sort of consensus or agreement. It'd be a monumental waste of time to continue further.

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The_Scarecrow posted...

I don't recall bringing this up last month unless you're talking about a different user.

I dont pay enough attention to say for sure. So.



Well youre not memorable enough to make an imprint amongst the rest of the cesspool around here. Is that a good thing? Bad thing? Do I care?

Anyway good talk. Any more arguments you wanna lose twice or possibly 3 times in a row you let me know. Anything else and I repeat the last question I asked to you.


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Garioshi posted...

More options can only improve a game.

Agreed

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