Poll of the Day > ATTN: Gun people

(+) Yeah! (+)

I would suggest a Winchester SXP 12 gauge. Good price, easy to use, lightweight,
smooth action.

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StriderQ posted...

I would suggest a Winchester SXP 12 gauge. Good price, easy to use, lightweight,
smooth action.

She. Is. Not. Getting. A. Shotgun.

Get it through your heads. They really aren't great for self defense unless you can be sure you have at least 10 feet between you and the intruder. They are not very maneuverable in close quarters. For that you want a pistol. Most people will prefer a normal pistol because it has a safety and other safe features compared to a revolver. However, a revolver doesn't have to worry about jamming. You just pull the trigger again and shoot the next round. That's important in a home invasion situation.

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DesertPenguin09 posted...

She. Is. Not. Getting. A. Shotgun.

Get it through your heads. They really aren't great for self defense unless you can be sure you have at least 10 feet between you and the intruder. They are not very maneuverable in close quarters. For that you want a pistol. Most people will prefer a normal pistol because it has a safety and other safe features compared to a revolver. However, a revolver doesn't have to worry about jamming. You just pull the trigger again and shoot the next round. That's important in a home invasion situation.

Yeah considering your likelihood to hit something besides wall versus a shotgun is way worse.

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You also have to think about penetration. If you miss or actually shoot through your target, you don't want the projectile to continue through your wall and into your neighbor's house. That's a real situation to have to think about. If you miss, that bullet is usually gonna go straight through the dry wall and into the next house's drywall. There's a small chance you hit wood but it can still break up and launch small pieces of stuff into the other house. A lot to think about.

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Nichtcrawler X posted...

This topic does seem to be filled with a disproportionate amount of "get x because it can murder the bad guy that much easier."

My dad told me when I was younger to make sure the other guy cant make it to court.

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Know your skill level, layout of home, and ease of access to the gun.

Really cannot go wrong with a shotgun, hard to miss with it; but I prefer a revolver + knife tactics in case things go south (intruder not in open area or you need to swivel in the dark or something, again, depends on layout).

Learn to commit these to memory:
--Safety on. Always. Unless you intend to shoot.
--Finger off/AWAY from the trigger. Unless you intend to shoot.
--Don't point it at anything. Unless you intend to shoot.
--Keep your weapon unloaded, safe, and accessible. Having a gun is pointless if it takes you 10 min to get to it.

Revolvers don't jam* (extremely unlikely) compared to pistols with magazines. Few exceptions.

I recommend writing questions down and talking with a local seller. Tell them your concerns and they'll be happy to help you find a good fit.

Edit: Always make sure you're using the correct ammo. Very painful lessons to learn...

DesertPenguin09 posted...

You also have to think about penetration. If you miss or actually shoot through your target, you don't want the projectile to continue through your wall and into your neighbor's house. That's a real situation to have to think about. If you miss, that bullet is usually gonna go straight through the dry wall and into the next house's drywall. There's a small chance you hit wood but it can still break up and launch small pieces of stuff into the other house. A lot to think about.

This is also important.

RedPixel posted...

Know your skill level, layout of home, and ease of access to the gun.

Really cannot go wrong with a shotgun, hard to miss with it; but I prefer a revolver + knife tactics in case things go south (intruder not in open area or you need to swivel in the dark or something, again, depends on layout).

Learn to commit these to memory:
--Safety on. Always. Unless you intend to shoot.
--Finger off/AWAY from the trigger. Unless you intend to shoot.
--Don't point it at anything. Unless you intend to shoot.
--Keep your weapon unloaded, safe, and accessible. Having a gun is pointless if it takes you 10 min to get to it.

Revolvers don't jam* (extremely unlikely) compared to pistols with magazines. Few exceptions.

I recommend writing questions down and talking with a local seller. Tell them your concerns and they'll be happy to help you find a good fit.

Edit: Always make sure you're using the correct ammo. Very painful lessons to learn...

I'm not a gun expert but I'm interested in them. I know there are different options for how "fire ready" the pistol can be in different configurations. In most cases you keep the magazine out and no rounds in the chamber. When you're ready to use it you insert the magazine and rack the slide to insert the first round. Now you're ready to fire. I know there are other options for this, such as magazine out but single round ready to fire, or being able to keep the fully loaded magazine in the gun with safety on and from there there's the ability to have it able to fire from here or needing to rack the slide back to chamber the first round still.

I think it's a police thing that they can't have a round chambered and ready to fire because accidents can happen. Only put a round in the chamber when you're sure you're going to need it, so when they're in a situation they usually have the time to equip their firearm, insert a mag, and rack the slide. They're not spec ops

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Jen0125 posted...

Also, we're going to take a safety course when we're able to and go to a shooting range.

Good to know. Also you live in Arizona right? If you want to get some time with your gun you can find public land outside of a city to go shoot on. Just drive far enough out of town that there isn't any homes around and get some practice in. Just remember not to shoot rocks, and only dirt backstops/hills. Also don't shoot saguaro cactus. Also don't take all your ammo shooting, or use all your ammo. A gun without ammo is just an expensive hammer.

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Jen0125 posted...

I don't feel comfortable with guns yet so I don't think I can get a shotgun. I think I need to start with a handgun

It's not just the stopping factor, but the intimidation factor. Someone is more likely to book it rather than shoot if you come at them with a shotgun than a 9mm.

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A shotgun is probably easier to learn with than a handgun btw. Less parts, easier to clean/oil, easier to use, and they do come with safeties unlike what DP said.

There are far more accidental discharges of handguns than shotguns.

If you want to learn about guns and being safe with them, watch some hickok45 YouTube videos. You would learn a hell of a lot more watching him than anything anyone writes on here.

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The_tall_midget posted... It's not just the stopping factor, but the intimidation factor. Someone is more likely to book it rather than shoot if you come at them with a shotgun than a 9mm.

Intimidation faction isn't really anything. The intruder has already determined to enter your home. If armed they will most certainly engage you. If they weren't serious about it they wouldn't be intruding. Saying one gun intimidates over another is fudd lore to the highest degree. It's the same shit as saying 'racking the slide of a firearm will scare off any intruder.' when it has been proven time and again to very rarely ever working.

StriderQ posted...

If you want to learn about guns and being safe with them, watch some hickok45 YouTube videos. You would learn a hell of a lot more watching him than anything anyone writes on here.

You'll learn a lot more from Paul Harrell. Plus you won't have to listen to someone shill for whatever sponsor for the first five minutes.

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https://leverarms.com/shop/shotguns/ranger-silah-20ga-bullpup-shotgun/

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Thanks for the advice guys. I know some of you keep mentioning shotguns but I'm really not getting a shotgun.

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Jen0125 posted...

Thanks for the advice guys. I know some of you keep mentioning shotguns but I'm really not getting a shotgun.

Some people just don't get it. Although if I was going to get a first gun for someone who has never shot one, I would recommend a Ruger 10/22. It's a fine gun, it shoots a common and cheap ammo '.22LR' it has next to zero recoil, its accurate, and simple to use. It's a rifle, but it was my, and many people's introduction to firearms.

But anyway, here was a recent shotgun project I finished. (because shotguns shotguns shotguns shotguns)
I turned this shotgun:


Into this.

Just for giggles. A $250 shotgun with $120 in parts.

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Thats a sweet Mossberg you got there!


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Have you considered a Tazer at all, or both? They can be really effective and before someone says "yeah but only one shot), you can get more than one, and I think they have some that can be fired more than once now as well.

They are not deadly (unless a heart condition but generally people breaking in don't have those lol), they are safe (you won't shoot yourself, your neighbor or your dog by accident), and I think they are cheaper in general. In many places they are easier to get as well (but not in Arizona I don't think).

If money isn't a object/hurdle you could also get both so you have options. If one person is breaking in, the taser should be fine, but if it's a group, you'll need the gun.

Also a decent alarm system with a camera will deter almost anyone, and can be set up to not only alarm you, but let you see who is trying to break in (while also informing the police etc).

It's not really that much to pay for security and it's bundled with insurance I think (which you probably already have on your home even if you don't have an HoA (or a mortgage) and are forced to.

I'd go with a good security system over a gun initially to be honest, and then consider just a taser, or if you really want, both a taser and a last resort gun.

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i thought you hated guns jen, or did this sort of break in change your mind?

either way, if youre gonna buy a gun, spend the money. its likely to be a one time expense if you buy the right one. personally, i agree that a shotgun is best for home defense, and as far as shotguns go you'd be hard pressed to find something better than the Xtrema 2 (baretta).

amazing accuracy, practically 0 recoil, and incredibly reliable. ive put at least 5k rounds through mine in the past year and it has never jammed on me. cycle rate is good as well, and with the reduced recoil you can practically rata tat tat that fucker.

if you really want to go with a handgun, then the choice isnt going to make any real difference. without practice youre never gonna hit shit, and you may as well be holding a paperweight.

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StriderQ posted...

Thats a sweet Mossberg you got there!

It's not really a Mossberg. Well it is, but it isn't. It's a maverick 88.

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Noop_Noop posted...

without practice youre never gonna hit shit, and you may as well be holding a paperweight.

Which is why you practice weekly. Go to the range, shoot 50 -100 rounds. Be familiar with your firearm.

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Noop_Noop posted...

i thought you hated guns jen, or did this sort of break in change your mind?

either way, if youre gonna buy a gun, spend the money. its likely to be a one time expense if you buy the right one. personally, i agree that a shotgun is best for home defense, and as far as shotguns go you'd be hard pressed to find something better than the Xtrema 2 (baretta).

amazing accuracy, practically 0 recoil, and incredibly reliable. ive put at least 5k rounds through mine in the past year and it has never jammed on me. cycle rate is good as well, and with the reduced recoil you can practically rata tat tat that fucker.

if you really want to go with a handgun, then the choice isnt going to make any real difference. without practice youre never gonna hit shit, and you may as well be holding a paperweight.

I do hate guns and I don't really want one. My boyfriend wants us to get one for his peace of mind so I'm agreeing to do so.

We're planning on doing safety courses and shooting practice so hopefully I can be an okay shot.

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It's a lot of fun, and I hope that in time you find peace of mind with them yourself.

Guns are safe.

We hear bad things about guns because stupid things happen to stupid people. Safety courses are excellent, and going more than once, you'll always learn something new.

Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

It's not really a Mossberg. Well it is, but it isn't. It's a maverick 88.

Nice set up anyhow!

Besides a sling, Im going to keep my Winchester plain Jane.




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https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/9-great-guns-for-women/

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xjayguyx posted...

If some piece of garbage came into my house at night with my son sleeping and I blow a hole though him that's not murder... that's protecting your family bud. Geez

I think the relevant phrase is "reasonable force".

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you ever think about maybe adopting a large dog? if home defense and peace of mind are what you are going for they are a way more effective deterrent than guns. Zog makes me feel way safer about leaving the family alone than any of my guns do.

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DesertPenguin09 posted...

Which is why you practice weekly. Go to the range, shoot 50 -100 rounds. Be familiar with your firearm.

my concern, which jen confirmed, was that jen does not like guns. how likely would it be for someone who does not like guns to practice with one regularly? even not considering that, if you dont like guns then that weekly practice seems like its going to be a miserable experience that you get to repeat more than 50x a year. there are other options.

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Lokarin posted...

https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/9-great-guns-for-women/

i love how they are all practically snub noses as if tiny sized guns are the only and most important option for women. in reality, recoil reduction is going to do them a lot more good. problem is, that shit is pretty expensive.

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Noop_Noop posted...

you ever think about maybe adopting a large dog? if home defense and peace of mind are what you are going for they are a way more effective deterrent than guns. Zog makes me feel way safer about leaving the family alone than any of my guns do.

No, I haven't. I also don't like large dogs because they kind of scare me. I've seen too much at my current job. And we aren't the best at training our dogs tbh I don't think we'd be successful.


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Noop_Noop posted...

my concern, which jen confirmed, was that jen does not like guns. how likely would it be for someone who does not like guns to practice with one regularly? even not considering that, if you dont like guns then that weekly practice seems like its going to be a miserable experience that you get to repeat more than 50x a year. there are other options.

I probably wouldn't go weekly but I've never shot a gun so I don't know if I would find it actually fun once I do it. I just have an aversion to guns but I'd try to practice so I could be safe. I don't want to have any negligent incidents with a gun. I'm not trying to accidentally kill my pets, my boyfriend or myself.

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I'm just gonna drop this off here:

"Hey, Jen, Susan showed me this topic because she knows I'm real big on firearms as a hobby and for self defense. (I teach gun safety and safe gun handling, and almost got a job teaching firearm self-defense and how it relates to the law. The only reason I didn't get the job is the position ended up not opening up in time and I got a different second job.) I just wanted to say I think it is fantastic that you and your boyfriend are making a choice to protect yourselves and your loved ones. You are an intelligent person and I have no doubt that you would do everything in your power in relation to gun safety such as barrel and trigger discipline, and always treating a gun as if it is loaded, and that you would do everything in your power to avoid a negligent discharge. I personally am not a fan of M&P Shields because I don't like striker guns or guns without external safeties, but that is entirely a personal preference of mine. I know a ton of people that carry M&P Shields every day and trust their life to them. It is a quality gun. And 9mm Hollowpoint is a great handgun round with proper expansion for self-defense. (DON'T USE FULL METAL JACKET FOR SELF DEFENSE!) And make sure you cycle at least a few magazine with your self-defense ammo at the range, not just FMJ at the range. You don't want to be "test firing" your gun when your life is in danger. You want to KNOW that it works, 100%. Sorry again about how everything went down with us (and RC, who I reached out to on Steam), I take 100% of that blame in me mishandling my grief. You guys are awesome. Take care, hope you and your boyfriend stay safe. -ManSaurus"

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Jen0125 posted...

I probably wouldn't go weekly but I've never shot a gun so I don't know if I would find it actually fun once I do it. I just have an aversion to guns but I'd try to practice so I could be safe. I don't want to have any negligent incidents with a gun. I'm not trying to accidentally kill my pets, my boyfriend or myself.

This is good. Have an open mind. He sounds already defeated. You never know. You may enjoy it! Not saying you have to or you should. Everyone is different. Either way, if you're getting one you need to be familiar with it even if you don't like it.

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I want to say, and I know many people, especially Americans will disagree, but for safetys sake and your life, everyone should leave your guns unloaded when youre not using them!

If you disagree, its your responsibility, Im not going to bother arguing with anyone on this.

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Yeah, definitely go and shoot whatever it is you're looking at before you buy. Personally I would also recommend going relatively cheap on your first purchase which would be less than $500. You don't have to go for something uber expensive for just a home defense purchase.

If it's just for leaving at the house, I would also recommend something that ISN'T a sub compact unless a sub compact fits your hands better. The only real reason to getting a sub compact is carry-ability, otherwise they're a bit of a chore to deal with. They're smaller and generally less comfortable to shoot, they have a greatly diminished round capacity, and they with less weight and a shorter barrel, they often have more recoil and are just generally harder to aim with.

It sounds like you're already looking into it, but a safety course is a good thing. Alternatively you can just take someone with you to a range who knows what they're doing that can run you through the basics.

That being said, my personal recommendation for a first gun is the Canik TP9SA. It's a 9mm full sized handgun with a double stack magazine (meaning it can hold 18 rounds). It's extremely cheap. Something like 250 bucks for the gun, a holster, two 18 round magazines, a cleaning brush, trigger lock, and a case. Its very easy to shoot and shoots quite reliably. It also has a striker indicator which tells you when its ready to fire/tells you that its 'cocked' and it has a decocker which basically releases the striker without firing a round (if there's one in the chamber).

But really all that matters is whether or not you like shooting it. If you don't like shooting it, you're never going to shoot it and its just going to sit on a shelf gathering dust. Go to a range and ask the pros for recommendations for first time buyers and home defense. They'll give you a selection of guns to try out and then you can make your choice from there.

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SusanGreenEyes posted...

I'm just gonna drop this off here:

"Hey, Jen, Susan showed me this topic because she knows I'm real big on firearms as a hobby and for self defense. (I teach gun safety and safe gun handling, and almost got a job teaching firearm self-defense and how it relates to the law. The only reason I didn't get the job is the position ended up not opening up in time and I got a different second job.) I just wanted to say I think it is fantastic that you and your boyfriend are making a choice to protect yourselves and your loved ones. You are an intelligent person and I have no doubt that you would do everything in your power in relation to gun safety such as barrel and trigger discipline, and always treating a gun as if it is loaded, and that you would do everything in your power to avoid a negligent discharge. I personally am not a fan of M&P Shields because I don't like striker guns or guns without external safeties, but that is entirely a personal preference of mine. I know a ton of people that carry M&P Shields every day and trust their life to them. It is a quality gun. And 9mm Hollowpoint is a great handgun round with proper expansion for self-defense. (DON'T USE FULL METAL JACKET FOR SELF DEFENSE!) And make sure you cycle at least a few magazine with your self-defense ammo at the range, not just FMJ at the range. You don't want to be "test firing" your gun when your life is in danger. You want to KNOW that it works, 100%. Sorry again about how everything went down with us (and RC, who I reached out to on Steam), I take 100% of that blame in me mishandling my grief. You guys are awesome. Take care, hope you and your boyfriend stay safe. -ManSaurus"

Thanks ManSaurus! And Susan for relaying the message.

StriderQ posted...

I want to say, and I know many people, especially Americans will disagree, but for safetys sake and your life, everyone should leave your guns unloaded when youre not using them!

If you disagree, its your responsibility, Im not going to bother arguing with anyone on this.

I mean handguns are pretty quick to load, aren't they? Just pop in the magazine and chamber a round?


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Smarkil posted...

That being said, my personal recommendation for a first gun is the Canik TP9SA. It's a 9mm full sized handgun with a double stack magazine (meaning it can hold 18 rounds). It's extremely cheap. Something like 250 bucks for the gun, a holster, two 18 round magazines, a cleaning brush, trigger lock, and a case. Its very easy to shoot and shoots quite reliably. It also has a striker indicator which tells you when its ready to fire/tells you that its 'cocked' and it has a decocker which basically releases the striker without firing a round (if there's one in the chamber).

I'll look into this one too.

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It's kind of amusing to me how gun talk is one of the most civil discussion I've seen on this website.

Jen0125 posted...

I mean handguns are pretty quick to load, aren't they? Just pop in the magazine and chamber a round?

yeah.

he means don't keep the loaded magazine in the gun, especially not with a round chambered.

keep em separate, but still close together, though it's really more of a major issue if you have like kids running around getting into shit. at the very least, don't keep a round chambered.

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SusanGreenEyes posted...

I'm just gonna drop this off here:

"Hey, Jen, Susan showed me this topic because she knows I'm real big on firearms as a hobby and for self defense. (I teach gun safety and safe gun handling, and almost got a job teaching firearm self-defense and how it relates to the law. The only reason I didn't get the job is the position ended up not opening up in time and I got a different second job.) I just wanted to say I think it is fantastic that you and your boyfriend are making a choice to protect yourselves and your loved ones. You are an intelligent person and I have no doubt that you would do everything in your power in relation to gun safety such as barrel and trigger discipline, and always treating a gun as if it is loaded, and that you would do everything in your power to avoid a negligent discharge. I personally am not a fan of M&P Shields because I don't like striker guns or guns without external safeties, but that is entirely a personal preference of mine. I know a ton of people that carry M&P Shields every day and trust their life to them. It is a quality gun. And 9mm Hollowpoint is a great handgun round with proper expansion for self-defense. (DON'T USE FULL METAL JACKET FOR SELF DEFENSE!) And make sure you cycle at least a few magazine with your self-defense ammo at the range, not just FMJ at the range. You don't want to be "test firing" your gun when your life is in danger. You want to KNOW that it works, 100%. Sorry again about how everything went down with us (and RC, who I reached out to on Steam), I take 100% of that blame in me mishandling my grief. You guys are awesome. Take care, hope you and your boyfriend stay safe. -ManSaurus"

Couple corrections. The 380ez is not striker fired, the ez line all have an external safety in the grip safety, and they are available with a thumb safety.

Will drop a longer post when I have time.
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Noop_Noop posted...

i thought you hated guns jen, or did this sort of break in change your mind?

I don't know about Jen, but after seeing the government screw over progressives twice I 100% oppose any assault weapon ban that Bernie himself supports, and think leftists should show up to all protests blatently showing off their right to own a firearm, just like the Republicans do.

Republicans show up in a state house armed to the teeth and get national coverage, we get nothing because we're viewed as yappy chihuahuas.

/political argument in my tepid gun topic!?

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StriderQ posted...

I want to say, and I know many people, especially Americans will disagree, but for safetys sake and your life, everyone should leave your guns unloaded when youre not using them!

If you disagree, its your responsibility, Im not going to bother arguing with anyone on this.

Of course everyone agrees with this. Real life isn't Hollywood, people don't sleep with a loaded and chambered gun under their pillow. Usually you keep it in a gun safe that only one or two people in the house know the combination to and with the magazine and gun separated. At the very least it is stored in your nightstand or a drawer nearby (not loaded of course).

I don't own a gun (although I have a bunch of friends who do) and even I know that.

Jen0125 posted...

I probably wouldn't go weekly but I've never shot a gun so I don't know if I would find it actually fun once I do it. I just have an aversion to guns but I'd try to practice so I could be safe. I don't want to have any negligent incidents with a gun. I'm not trying to accidentally kill my pets, my boyfriend or myself.

I would say try the shooting range. I never thought I would like it but now that I have done it a dozen or so times I really enjoy it. Also, you should absolutely try and get comfortable with the gun you own. Probably should even go to the range every few months with it so you stay comfortable as well (and to make sure it is still in good working order). Also while I don't think it is required in Arizona, should probably take a gun safety class as well. Most of it is common sense, but you don't think about it until it is told to you.

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Sorry, I grew up around guns and I know how to handle them safely, but I usually prefer a sword because theyre quieter.

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Dikitain posted...

Of course everyone agrees with this. Real life isn't Hollywood, people don't sleep with a loaded and chambered gun under their pillow. Usually you keep it in a gun safe that only one or two people in the house know the combination to and with the magazine and gun separated. At the very least it is stored in your nightstand or a drawer nearby (not loaded of course).

I don't own a gun (although I have a bunch of friends who do) and even I know that.

I sure hope everyone agrees with this.

I watched a YouTube video about storing a home defence gun, and they basically recommended storing it loaded, but not chambered. Watching it made me wonder if this was the norm for most American gun owners. I read the comment section and dont recall anyone objecting and many even argued to store it with a bullet in the chamber.


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Jen0125 posted...

Thanks ManSaurus! And Susan for relaying the message.

I mean handguns are pretty quick to load, aren't they? Just pop in the magazine and chamber a round?

It's all good in the hood.

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Cacciato posted...

Name a state that requires a year before your average American citizen can purchase a firearm.

I think NY is one of the strict ones. I said a year because there's probably a long line due to a rush to get them now that some stores won't carry guns anymore (Dicks and Wally I think). I don't have interest in them so I haven't looked for specifics. Our area isn't big on crime. Or stuff to do for that matter, wouldn't know where to look for a range.

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DPsx7 posted...

I think NY is one of the strict ones. I said a year because there's probably a long line due to a rush to get them now that some stores won't carry guns anymore (Dicks and Wally I think). I don't have interest in them so I haven't looked for specifics. Our area isn't big on crime. Or stuff to do for that matter, wouldn't know where to look for a range.

There's a million gun stores and ranges in Arizona.

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Jen0125 posted...

I don't feel comfortable with guns yet so I don't think I can get a shotgun. I think I need to start with a handgun

shotguns are much easier to get into. It takes a lot of skill and practice to fire a handgun effectively compared to longarms.

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bulbinking posted...

shotguns are much easier to get into. It takes a lot of skill and practice to fire a handgun effectively compared to longarms.

It's not really about ease of use. It's about intimidation. No one is going to convince me to get a shotgun right now.

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zebatov posted...

My dad told me when I was younger to make sure the other guy cant make it to court.

Exactly the same thing my dad told me.

Nichtcrawler X posted...

I think the relevant phrase is "reasonable force".

When it comes to protecting my Son and Wife that is reasonable.