Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 295: Bern After Reade-ing

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm sure it will greatly comfort the hundreds of thousands+ of people that end up dying that Google wasn't able to reacquire all of the info it already had on them

A big component of contact tracing is also literally just actual people tracking down infected people and their contacts. If you find that more problematic than not getting the disease under control or indefinite lockdown I think you need to get your priorities in order.

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They already get that.

Edit: that was to wang

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LordoftheMorons posted...

But Congress cant unilaterally fix this; they can allocate money, but if at the end of the day the Trump administrations going to abdicate responsibility the Dems cant implement it nationally themselves since they dont control the executive.

How long should the lockdowns continue if we assume the Trump administration will literally never have a plan to open safely? It doesn't seem reasonable to tell people "Stay at home indefinitely. In November, we'll find out if you can maybe go out again in February". Nobody would go for that even without the economy vs. safety thing.
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So what I'm hearing is that once again, the dems have a big messaging problem.

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Literally nobody has a plan to reopen "safely." (which itself is a meaningless term, as nothing is ever guaranteed to be safe)

All the Dem governor plans aren't plans as such, they're just a list of requirements for various permissions. Stuff like "X can be done when Y is achieved" with no plan whatsoever regarding how Y is going to be achieved.

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Xeybozn posted...

How long should the lockdowns continue if we assume the Trump administration will literally never have a plan to open safely? It doesn't seem reasonable to tell people "Stay at home indefinitely. In November, we'll find out if you can maybe go out again in February". Nobody would go for that even without the economy vs. safety thing.

The states are going to have to develop tracing capabilities themselves (which is going to be harder because they can't just deficit spend and have less resources than the Federal government, not to mention that fact that you're doing the same problem 50 times instead of once). Some states will get it in place quicker than others.

Unfortunately a lot of states are just going to have their cases start blowing up again (albeit at a slower exponential growth rate because most people will be voluntarily distancing, wearing masks, etc), but few if any of them will be able to maintain R<1 with just voluntary measures.

And the thing is, the economy is not going to come back without stopping the virus! Most people aren't going to want to go and expose themselves and their families to unnecessary risk just to patronize nonessential businesses.

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https://twitter.com/radleybalko/status/1258387175734902785?s=21

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Corrik7 posted...

I wonder if you would either if you had just read the rules without being told they were terrible beforehand also.

This is insulting as fuck to just assume I didn't read the rules and am just mindlessly repeating what I've been "told."

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SmartMuffin posted...

Literally nobody has a plan to reopen "safely." (which itself is a meaningless term, as nothing is ever guaranteed to be safe)

All the Dem governor plans aren't plans as such, they're just a list of requirements for various permissions. Stuff like "X can be done when Y is achieved" with no plan whatsoever regarding how Y is going to be achieved.

Literally just today we got news that thre administration shelved a CDC report that would advise local governments on how to plan.

And then people like you scream and pout that there's no plan so let's just kill thousands of people and get it over with.

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xp1337 posted...

This is insulting as fuck to just assume I didn't read the rules and am just mindlessly repeating what I've been "told."

I didn't say anything of the sort. I said if you read them in a vaccuum without reading what you were told to think that you might view them differently.

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I would like to remind muff man, again, that it's not just "Dem governors."

Hogan has one of the strictest reopen plans in the nation and he's super red.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

A big component of contact tracing is also literally just actual people tracking down infected people and their contacts. If you find that more problematic than not getting the disease under control or indefinite lockdown I think you need to get your priorities in order.

These two are not exclusive positions.

The choices are not literally having my health, contacts, and locations being constantly tracked vs. indefinite lockdown or no control of disease.

That's a completely bullshit illusion of choice. The answer is neither. If your priorities are to give up all that info and capability to the government willingly you're definitely mistaken.

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https://www.sankakucomplex.com/2020/05/04/western-story-of-seasons-censors-best-friends-system-changes-it-to-gay-marriage/

Right-wing nut complains about 'censoring' "Best Friend" mechanic in Harvest Moon Remake to "Same Sex Marriage". Just more proof that conservatives have NO IDEA what censorship is. Just like they got mad about the minor change in Persona 5: Royal. Ludicrous.

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Ugh people talking about how we need till July when South Carolina is opening next week and Im gonna have to go deal with the dumb masses or lose my job and unemployment.

Open season on lying to the FBI.

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Ashethan posted...

https://www.sankakucomplex.com/2020/05/04/western-story-of-seasons-censors-best-friends-system-changes-it-to-gay-marriage/

Right-wing nut complains about 'censoring' "Best Friend" mechanic in Harvest Moon Remake to "Same Sex Marriage". Just more proof that conservatives have NO IDEA what censorship is. Just like they got mad about the minor change in Persona 5: Royal. Ludicrous.

like censoring "fudge" by changing it to "fuck"

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Kinglicious posted...

The choices are not literally having my health, contacts, and locations being constantly tracked vs. indefinite lockdown or no control of disease.

Absolutely.

Also I think people need to understand that stay home with no support is absolutely untenable.

The protesters are largely assholes who want restaurants and hair salons to open, but that doesnt mean they arent effective. With no reasonable way to counter-protest, the media is giving people the impression that this is going to end sooner rather than later, and even the most responsible people are going to start venturing out when the cabin fever gets too bad.

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hey now, hair salons are apparently something that crosses left to right barriers, it's an essential for mayors ya know!

jokes aside i think we're about to run into the next issue of the right to protest: the shooting of Arbery in Georgia.
i do not expect a lot of social distancing to be carried out there and while they may not be pushing to re-open everything, it's still effectively the same thing.


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I don't think anyone is actually arguing for "stay home with no support" besides Congress, who essentially did that by taking a month off after handing everyone 1200 bucks. Even then, there were plans that got tabled for that.

And the issue with people going stir-crazy is that people don't understand the terms of the lockdown and we are re-opening the wrong things. Going on walks and to parks or whatever is fine as long as it's a low number of people and they're taking precautions, but now that things are "open" I am already seeing more people with less masks and distancing. Getting take-out is fine but Texas has opened bars and restaurant at 25% capacity (which is still unsustainable for the businesses), which ends up just causing big crowds anyways as people flock to them.

But a lot of work environments could reopen just fine with appropriate measures, and are starting to. The service industry is just not one of them, and these are the areas that most need support.

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Any news on a 4th relief package?

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Excellent, Michael Flynn's charges are dropped. Now let's get a special prosecutor to look into Hillary's emails.

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just booked a haircut appointment for tomorrow

"we aren't requiring masks"

suck it, fearmongers

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Word is Trump's new strategy is to start calling the death total fake news

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red sox 777 posted...

Excellent, Michael Flynn's charges are dropped. Now let's get a special prosecutor to look into Hillary's emails.

So basically Trump pressured the DoJ to drop the case to save him the political fallout of a pardon?

Hopefully the judge will see this for what it is and reject it.

SmartMuffin posted...

just booked a haircut appointment for tomorrow

"we aren't requiring masks"

suck it, fearmongers

Getting a deadly virus to own the libs!

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HashtagSEP posted...

Word is Trump's new strategy is to start calling the death total fake news

Is this an actual rumour or just an assumption that he'll do what he always does because of course he will

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https://apple.news/AK45B003sSh2NIF49UKzm9w

I dont think anyone answered me when I asked this last time.

Have those of you who are against M4A because of good insurance through jobs reconsidered this now that 30 million people have lost their jobs, and no small portion of those have lost their insurance?

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HashtagSEP posted...

Word is Trump's new strategy is to start calling the death total fake news

it actually never exceeded the 22 number he mentioned in his "the flu is worse" tweet

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Panthera posted...

Is this an actual rumour or just an assumption that he'll do what he always does because of course he will

The report is that he/senior aides are beginning to say the number's being inflated big time, so they assume he's going to start saying that publicly because he always does

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HashtagSEP posted...

Word is Trump's new strategy is to start calling the death total fake news

technically true
>_>;

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Oh is he going to go full conspiracy on us?

Wait, I thought we all agreed that the current numbers are fake. We just don't agree in which direction they're being faked...

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SmartMuffin posted...

Wait, I thought we all agreed that the current numbers are fake. We just don't agree in which direction they're being faked...

I believe we all agree the US numbers are real except the craziest of the crazies.

correct.
edit:
to muffin, that is.


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I also believe we all agree that the China numbers are fake.

Though the crazies again cite the Chinese numbers as fake but cite the fake Chinese numbers to call our numbers fake.

Yeah, I should have clarified

He appears to be taking the stance that the numbers are being inflated big to make him look bad

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Leafeon13N posted...

I believe we all agree the US numbers are real except the craziest of the crazies.

If Wang is insinuating what i think he is I am going to point out this still applies.

Leafeon13N posted...

Oh is he going to go full conspiracy on us?

No, it's perfectly rational to assume the death rate is artificially inflated by hospitals to get more money from the government. Why else would it would seem like more people are dying right now? In fact, if more people really are dying it's probably just liberals killing themselves as part of a plot to make President Trump look bad.
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SmartMuffin posted...

just booked a haircut appointment for tomorrow

"we aren't requiring masks"

suck it, fearmongers

Threatening your own health to own the libs!

Next you'll tell me that you enjoy shooting a pistol aimed at your own feet.

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"The libs say playing Russian Roulette is bad. I'll show them!"

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Leafeon13N posted...

I believe we all agree the US numbers are real except the craziest of the crazies.

even US officials can't agree the numbers are real, have constantly readjusted them, and if we go to states they also admit they don't think the numbers are the real count.

so no, he's right.
on the one hand we've got people, officials, and a couple doctors pointing out that the inclusion of various deaths doesn't make sense, something that has been backtracked a few times already to prove their point. on the other we've officials, scientists, and other doctors point out that the numbers aren't accurate because of a lack of testing, a lack of proper diagnosis, the way deaths aren't counted not being quite right, and people dying in their homes - which is about 2/3 of all NYC infections btw.

on both ends, it's clear that we're trying our best to make an educated guess but are still totally guessing and the numbers aren't quite real, just estimates we think.

you're picking fights for no good reason here.

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Xeybozn posted...

No, it's perfectly rational to assume the death rate is artificially inflated by hospitals to get more money from the government. Why else would it would seem like more people are dying right now? In fact, if more people really are dying it's probably just liberals killing themselves as part of a plot to make President Trump look bad.

Sure, if you literally don't know anything about how hospitals are paid and think that doctors are more likely to be crooks than the administration!

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Wanglicious posted...

so no, he's right.

He'd only be right if there's proof the numbers are indeed being inflated to make him look bad.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Yeah, I should have clarified

He appears to be taking the stance that the numbers are being inflated big to make him look bad

oh i know. i just couldn't resist something that was technically true in a slightly annoying way.

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HashtagSEP posted...

He'd only be right if there's proof the numbers are indeed being inflated to make him look bad.

the he there i meant was muffin when he said that both sides agree the numbers are fake, just disagree on which way.

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Oh, my bad.

Fair.

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Sure I'll back off.

Muffin is still nutso though.

since you deleted that i will too, don't wanna drag something out either.


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red deleted a post to avoid an argument

clearly he's not as addicted to arguing as he claimed he was in that topic

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"The numbers are estimates" does not mean the same thing as "the numbers aren't real". Pretend the dogwhistle doesn't exist all you like, but trying to hide the implications of the latter statement by conflating them both together is a deliberate and malicious attempt to mislead people.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

red deleted a post to avoid an argument

clearly he's not as addicted to arguing as he claimed he was in that topic

I am arguing with complete morons on Twitter right now.

One just tried to cite the CDC website lag count for the death total but the CDC updated their website to show the real count and they hadn't checked.