Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 290: Wisconscionable

(+) Yeah! (+)

Biden is far from perfect as a candidate and at times definitely struggles to give people complete confidence in him. However, just as important as the individual that is President is the people that they surround themselves with and appoint to crucial roles in our government. I am 1000% certain that Biden would do a better job of getting people who will properly inform him and hold him accountable when it comes to policies and decision making. I'm also of the mind that Biden would only serve one term and act as a reset from the Trump era should he win.

The presidency, in my opinion, is more important than the President. Hopefully we can focus on that as campaign season really starts to get into full gear. Let's also shake up the Senate for the better as well.

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As a Canadian who voted liberal in the last federal election, Bernie had no chance of winning. He was on the mark with universal healthcare, but UBI and wiping out tuitions are policies that most people who contribute to society don't support. I don't see why I should be responsible for when some shithead that wanted to "party" took out loans to flunk out of a Philosophy degree. Or someone stupid enough to think that a "Women's Studies" degree would result in job prospects and has no way to pay back those loans.

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bernie supported UBI? like, regular UBI, not the "temporary coronavirus" version?

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I mean literally everyone in this topic except the usual suspects agrees that Biden would be a better president than Trump. At this point I think not having a president at all is better than having Trump. Doesn't mean people aren't tired of having to choose between the lesser of two evils when an actual good option existed.

I'm voting Biden this November (probably the last time I'll ever vote Dem) but Biden supporters in general are making it really hard for me to keep up my motivation to do so.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

As a Canadian who voted liberal in the last federal election, Bernie had no chance of winning. He was on the mark with universal healthcare, but UBI and wiping out tuitions are policies that most people who contribute to society don't support. I don't see why I should be responsible for when some shithead that wanted to "party" took out loans to flunk out of a Philosophy degree. Or someone stupid enough to think that a "Women's Studies" degree would result in job prospects and has no way to pay back those loans.

You can apply that same logic to universal healthcare. Why should I have to pay for the surgery of some dumb skateboarder who fucked up a kickflip or the lung cancer treatment for someone who chose to smoke a pack a day for their whole life?

we shouldnt let that kind of thinking stop us for doing something good

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

bernie supported UBI? like, regular UBI, not the "temporary coronavirus" version?

He did not, at least not when WaPo sent out issues questions to all the candidates. He stated he favored a jobs guarantee over UBI. He did point to his support for a bill proposed by Tlaib (BOOST Act) that would provide a refundable tax credit to poor families that could be paid monthly but while it would be projected to provide aid to over 200 million Americans it isn't UBI.

Only Yang, Gabbard, and Williamson were on the record for it. Warren and Julian Castro were open to the idea.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Biden supporters in general are making it really hard for me to keep up my motivation to do so

Biden supporters sure like to act like they claim Bernie supporters do.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

You can apply that same logic to universal healthcare. Why should I have to pay for the surgery of some dumb skateboarder who fucked up a kickflip or the lung cancer treatment for someone who chose to smoke a pack a day for their whole life?

we shouldnt let that kind of thinking stop us for doing something good

Universal healthcare makes financial sense because at the end of the day, a single payer option is cheaper and more efficient than whatever the fuck you Americans have now. It's so far beyond my ability to imagine what it must be like looking at dire financial straits if you have an accident, or get cancer or something.

Healthcare and basic education are human rights and contribute to the growth and well being of society. Paying for some jobless drug addict to score more weed, or buy a big screen TV is not a human right. Liberal arts degrees, also not a right

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I preferred Bernie, but at the end if the day I'm going to do everything in my power to prevent Trump from winning and getting a 7-2 conservative majority in the supreme court. Think of how that would fuck over progressive agenda for our lifetime

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Biden supporters sure like to act like they claim Bernie supporters do.

You don't even support Bernie you just wanted to vote for him.

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

Liberal arts degrees, also not a right

as a STEM major, they should be

If education is a human right it shouldn't be limited just to education for jobs that are most profitable! If the goal is a society whose population has a well-rounded education it makes no sense to exclude them.

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Leafeon13N posted...

You don't even support Bernie you just wanted to vote for him.

I dont know why you keep saying this like people arent allowed to disagree with the candidates they like?

Bernie said vote blue no matter who, and youre not that so I guess you dont support Bernie

Meanwhile there are other shithead Dems who cant stop attacking BernieBros as a cult, as if the key defining trait of a cult isnt complete subservience to the leader.

Which is it? This sucks

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I mean if you want a well rounded education that's what K - 12 should be.

I'm much more in line with the idea that if you've the money to do free college, you should take it and put it into lower education first. That should be priority.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Which is it? This sucks

Its both?

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The Bernie or Bust group is smaller than last time (20% said they'd vote Trump, only 12% ended up doing it. 15% said this time they'll vote Trump).

As for who will get the blame, just remember than success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.

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Nah Bernie will get the blame because it means the DNC didn't do anything wrong.

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red13n posted...

Its both?

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

This sucks

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Kinglicious posted...

Nah Bernie will get the blame because it means the DNC didn't do anything wrong.

I mean people blamed Hillary for losing 2016 so I don't know why you think this is true.

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Kinglicious posted...

I mean if you want a well rounded education that's what K - 12 should be.

I'm much more in line with the idea that if you've the money to do free college, you should take it and put it into lower education first. That should be priority.

Sure, that's also lacking and needs priority, but access to quality post-grade school education for all would also benefit society.

People talk all the time about wanting a knowledgeable and well-informed electorate, well that means you can't stop accessible and free/cheap education right when people reach voting age.

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TheRock1525 posted...

I mean people blamed Hillary for losing 2016 so I don't know why you think this is true.

Because it's 2020 and Bernie was blamed for this as recently as last week, told he didn't do enough, etc.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Sure, that's also lacking and needs priority, but access to quality post-grade school education for all would also benefit society.

Depends on what it is.
Depends how K through 12 is done.

There's not really a "but" to it, that should take priority over college. If there's money for college, make lower education better because that will offer significantly better value for a mass populace. Most people don't go to college, even less need it. If you improve the quality of their education, include aspects that are useful in life (bring back home ec, civics), and the value will shrink further.

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Improving K-12 is a worthy goal but is in some respects harder to do federally since states like Texas have an outsized influence on what the entire country gets because of textbooks catering to them and their often atrocious decisions and mandates.

And that's when the Republican party isn't trying to destroy the Department of Education itself.

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Kinglicious posted...

Because it's 2020 and Bernie was blamed for this as recently as last week, told he didn't do enough, etc.

Because like I said, failure is an orphan. Bernie supporters blamed Hillary and Hillary supporters blamed Bernie. They'll point the finger until the end of time at each other.

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Kinglicious posted...

Depends on what it is.
Depends how K through 12 is done.

There's not really a "but" to it, that should take priority over college. If there's money for college, make lower education better because that will offer significantly better value for a mass populace. Most people don't go to college, even less need it. If you improve the quality of their education, include aspects that are useful in life (bring back home ec, civics), and the value will shrink further.

bruh I literally agreed with you and you are going out of the way to disagree

Everyone deserves a quality, comprehensive K-12 education first. AND THEN, everyone deserves access to higher education (or trade school with other essential education) if they want it. Sound good?

Kinglicious posted...

If there's money for college, make lower education better because that will offer significantly better value for a mass populace

like ignoring any other obstacles like what xp mentioned at some point you're going to hit diminishing returns on K-12 and it will be much more efficient to improve other areas, right?

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https://twitter.com/ememess/status/1247974748669313027?s=21

@Wanglicious will get why this is so funny

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

bruh I literally agreed with you and you are going out of the way to disagree

Everyone deserves a quality, comprehensive K-12 education first. AND THEN, everyone deserves access to higher education (or trade school with other essential education) if they want it. Sound good?

my bad, i misunderstood. we agree on that one yeah.
honestly it was one of the points Steyer of all people made that i was amazed nobody wanted to followup on.


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https://twitter.com/npratc/status/1247988083376549888?s=21

wtf

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/npratc/status/1247988083376549888?s=21

wtf

Literally evil.

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...What exactly is the justification?

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

as a STEM major, they should be

If education is a human right it shouldn't be limited just to education for jobs that are most profitable! If the goal is a society whose population has a well-rounded education it makes no sense to exclude them.

That's a very Star Trekkily idealistic way of looking at things, the only problem is we have other shit we need to sort out before we can have people "dedicate" themselves to wasting time on philosophy and literature on society's dime. I might be in favour of free university tuition with the following caveats:

• Living expenses are excluded
• Dropping out requires you to pay back everything for wasting everybody's time
• Useless degrees are excluded. We need people in trades/STEM, I don't want my tax dollars going to bullshit made up degrees

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

...What exactly is the justification?

The FEMA quote in the article claims they were just a stopgap, so I guess the justification is Trumps bullshit this is the states responsibility narrative

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Liberal arts degrees should actually be the only ones paid for by the state because STEM majors can just make their money back in their higher paying jobs.

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Kenri posted...

Liberal arts degrees should actually be the only ones paid for by the state because STEM majors can just make their money back in their higher paying jobs.

I don't mind paying taxes when it is going to something beneficial to society: healthcare, infrastructure, emergency response etc. What possible benefit to society is giving a bunch of C- students Philosophy degrees? How will this help them in their thriving careers as retailer workers or burger flippers?

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Have you ever talked to a room full of STEM majors vs. a room full of liberal arts majors? The benefit is pretty obvious tbh.

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Education should not solely be about preparing someone for a career. Knowledge itself has value. I don't want to imagine a world where people only learn about information that prepares them for whatever career they will eventually pursue. What a bleak world that'd be.

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Kenri posted...

Have you ever talked to a room full of STEM majors vs. a room full of liberal arts majors? The benefit is pretty obvious tbh.

Not sure if I'm following you here, I'd much rather talk to a STEM major, because we can actually talk about things that make sense. No philosophy or english lit major has ever said anything worthwhile

I suspect you're only arguing because you're one of those people that decided to throw away thousands of dollars for a useless degree and now want the government to bail you out. A bad case of buyers remorse.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Education should not solely be about preparing someone for a career. Knowledge itself has value. I don't want to imagine a world where people only learn about information that prepares them for whatever career they will eventually pursue. What a bleak world that'd be.

If your family is rich, and you want to fuck around and read 2000 year old philosophers talk about how flat the earth is, feel free to do so. If you aren't rich, and want to have job prospects in the future, maybe go STEM if you're smart enough, or into the trades if you aren't.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

Not sure if I'm following you here, I'd much rather talk to a STEM major, because we can actually talk about things that make sense. No philosophy or english lit major has ever said anything worthwhile

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

If your family is rich, and you want to fuck around and read 2000 year old philosophers talk about how flat the earth is, feel free to do so. If you aren't rich, and want to have job prospects in the future, maybe go STEM if you're smart enough, or into the trades if you aren't.

making a great case for the benefits of studying philosophy here

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those who fail to learn from history are doomed to make it rain boyyyyyy

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oh my god black turtle shut up
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Lol he's so fucking mad.

https://twitter.com/RobertMaguire_/status/1247970429584760832

"cool"

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

No philosophy or english lit major has ever said anything worthwhile

Hi, English Major/Philosophy Minor here, with a Bachelors.

I may have never said anything worthwhile, but I created a whole successful topic series in which you decided to post at least <_<
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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/npratc/status/1247988083376549888?s=21

wtf

This will hopefully come back to bite him in November. This is a clear example of why Biden (while not perfect in any way) is still far better than Trump will ever be.

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https://twitter.com/PFTompkins/status/1248090367070629889?s=20

I love PFT

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Strong bipartisan majorities support vote by mail this fall if the threat of coronavirus is still here (which it will be):

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1248041709000245249?s=21

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If mail-in voting becomes Federal law, the Republican party is fucking doomed.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

If your family is rich, and you want to fuck around and read 2000 year old philosophers talk about how flat the earth is,

ok clearly black turtle has no idea what philosophy actually is so that puts his posts into perspective


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As someone who double majored in STEM, the classes that I took that were non-STEM were probably the ones that gave me more education.

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

If your family is rich, and you want to fuck around and read 2000 year old philosophers talk about how flat the earth is, feel free to do so. If you aren't rich, and want to have job prospects in the future, maybe go STEM if you're smart enough, or into the trades if you aren't.

Funny. Ben Carson loves talking about how the pyramids were Grain Silos, and if I recall correctly he was into STEM. He must be SMART enough, right?

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Dancedreamer posted...

Funny. Ben Carson loves talking about how the pyramids were Grain Silos, and if I recall correctly he was into STEM. He must be SMART enough, right?

Yeah Black Turtle! If even one STEM person is an idiot obviously your point has no merit! Never mind the fact that it's not related to your argument at all!

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