Board 8 > FFXIV Topic 2: Eden's Verse, brought to you by Alfred Hitchcock

(+) Yeah! (+)

e3s was definitely harder than e7s tho

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I'd go as far to say E7S is easier than E6S this tier. Maybe more difficult to learn but I definitely had a worse time clearing and on reclears with 6.

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hard agree

the mechanics were mystifying at first but we simplified the only "hard" mechanic down to super easy everyone stacks almost together strat (we all go upper right and the square below it, someone calls out if it's stay or swap, we run mid to drop our aoes, then we run back), so after that it was just not doing stupid shit like teleporting off the side of the arena because muscle memory compelled me to press that ruin 2 button right before a teleport

adds phase is harder than the rest of the fight honestly and that's saying something

e6s still goes wrong sometimes because tether finnickiness, or people greeding charges, or stray line aoe hits during conflag strike, or forgetting one defensive cooldown and dying because we usually survive that mechanic combo with 5k hp... our wipes in e7s are just inexperience at this point

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Man the shiva theme for Eden is legit af.

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its so good

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Vote for it in VGMC!

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We cleared E8S this weekend and after the first couple nights of prog all of the awkwardness associated with 5 of our members having already cleared had more or less disappeared and it ended up being very satisfying after all. That's a great fight.

Also I agree that E7S is abnormally easy, especially the last phase, BUT the last phase kind of sucks anyway for BLM specifically

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first time we made it to whirlybird our blm said "I DONT LIKE THIS MECHANIC VERY MUCH"

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Also ugh, I wasted 300 Centurio seals buying an orchestrion roll I apparently had already gotten

Really wish they would note which ones you already have for collectable stuff...

fyi, just wanted to confirm - it does give you a popup when you go to buy an orchestrion you already have, but it just looks like a normal confirmation screen lol

https://imgur.com/nSx7iu6


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Oh huh I guess I missed it. Good to know!

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Titania is one nasty Lunafreya, but the fight was cool.

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BK_Sheikah00 posted...

Titania is one nasty Lunafreya, but the fight was cool.

That fight was an absolute nightmare on ShB release. So many terrible players were trying to get through the MSQ and the DPS check in the adds just completely stonewalled them. It's not even hard, people just don't know how to press their buttons.

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The music for Raktika is really gonna get stuck in my head and not in a good way. Little Minfilia is really cute and could be a top tier Scion. All the Scions are looking pretty sexy this expansion tbh

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la-HEE

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

la-HEE

Now I have ebola.

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Thanks. Now I can't unhear

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probably the worst song in ShB

Fucking rak'tika

Lakeland day far superior

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Lucavi000 posted...

probably the worst song in ShB

Fucking rak'tika

Lakeland day far superior

This is certainly an opinion.

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I just have a bad taste for raktika day because of everyone spamming LA HEE in shout chat when it turned day when the zone was still super happenin. Still occasionally happens on trains

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It sounds like SOME PEOPLE have not heard the good news of our lord and savior, the Great Serpent.

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Another thing the masses have completely ruined

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Implying mere mortals could ruin our wobbly divinity on earth.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

The key word there is "significantly." Losing a handful of GCDs there isn't enough to send melee's dps plummetting down to match ranged. If there was an effective "melee tax" you would expect both melee and ranged melee to do the same DPS. And obviously SMN/BLM are DPS gods this tier but SAM still manages to compete with them.

like the entire crux of my argument here is that that even with melee having less uptime, melee can STILL do more damage overall

Check the 50th percentile values on fflogs. Every single melee job except Ninja (which has Mudras) takes a nosedive, and ranged actually do overtake melee. It just doesn't matter at high end because high end players greed everything so they don't feel that heat, but the melee tax absolutely exists.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/33#boss=70&dataset=50

(note how MNK plummets to barely better than Dancer...that's not a coincidence, Monk has no ranged attacks whatsoever)

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On E8S talk, finally got past knockback mirrors

Holy fuck I still need to get a team through reflected holy, do reflected drachen, and only THEN do I get to prog Icelit

God save me from this pug life, I've never had to grind so hard before

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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Monk has no ranged attacks whatsoever

*Single tear*

Just give us a shitty kamehameha, Squeenix. Please.

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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Check the 50th percentile values on fflogs. Every single melee job except Ninja (which has Mudras) takes a nosedive, and ranged actually do overtake melee. It just doesn't matter at high end because high end players greed everything so they don't feel that heat, but the melee tax absolutely exists.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/33#boss=70&dataset=50

(note how MNK plummets to barely better than Dancer...that's not a coincidence, Monk has no ranged attacks whatsoever)

This is a lot closer to what it should look like but it's still a little ridiculous to me that full uptime ranged WITH raid buff contributions are still getting outdamaged by a MNK that's losing uptime. <_< If you switch to aDPS you can see that MNK (and SAM) are still doing a ton of single-target damage, but fails at party buffs causing it to fall in rDPS. And still beats them out. But this does show me that it's a pretty good fight for MCH, which is neat.

Honestly I'm probably just being a glass half-empty guy on this because the game is pretty well-balanced in general, it's just that 4.0 BRD was almost perfect besides the crazy crit scaling and now that they've smoothed out the classes they've put this weird skill and damage ceiling on the class. I feel like they have a lot of room to make ranged rotations more complex to compensate, but that goes against their design philosophy. After the RDM buffs I think that's a decent model because that's also a really simple job that's gaining a lot in 6 and 8 this tier while ranged does not as much.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

This is a lot closer to what it should look like but it's still a little ridiculous to me that full uptime ranged WITH raid buff contributions are still getting outdamaged by a MNK that's losing uptime. <_<

dont forget that ranged classes also have superior raidwide defensive cooldowns that aren't accounted for in rDPS but they absolutely save healers gcds causing extra group dps, plus they are able to handle mechanics like chain lightning in e5s with utter safety

they should do less damage in all well-designed fights because they naturally bring more to the table that's harder to quantify

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agesboy posted...

dont forget that ranged classes also have superior raidwide defensive cooldowns that aren't accounted for in rDPS but they absolutely save healers gcds causing extra group dps, plus they are able to handle mechanics like chain lightning in e5s with utter safety

they should do less damage in all well-designed fights because they naturally bring more to the table that's harder to quantify

I'd agree with this in 4.0! But now everyone has a group defensive cooldown or debuff and it honestly feels like we are drowning in mitigation options. The ranged one is generally stronger with a longer cooldown tradeoff but as all classes become more versatile, the main strength of the class is less prominent. Everyone has slowly become a jack-of-all-trades.

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mantra is ass now since they cut its potency in half, and samurai+ninja still has nothing outside of the melee role action feint. feint is generally less desirable than addle because most things you want to mitigate are magical in this game, too

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killed e8s again
blue, grey, grey, grey
rip me

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agesboy posted...

mantra is ass now since they cut its potency in half, and samurai+ninja still has nothing outside of the melee role action feint. feint is generally less desirable than addle because most things you want to mitigate are magical in this game, too

I mean yeah, Feint isn't great, we use it all the time for 6s tankbusters but it's not better. But the ranged stuff is also essentially a role action (it's the same skill reskinned and doesn't stack) so it's a fair comparison to it and Addle. Unless you want to talk about the "amazing" job-specific utility of Minne, Paean (now with an actual use in 8s!), and uh...Healing Waltz and Improvisation?

I'm talking mainly about Addle and tanks having Reprisal and their job-specific actions, all on shorter cooldowns. Mitigation is everywhere now, which is fine, but it's also just a slight upgrade to other cooldowns and not some major benefit.

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As a BLM should I be using addle? Is it only a thing to be worrying about in content hard enough to justify premade groups?

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Yeah, as mentioned previously, it just reduces the strain on healers. Amusingly, it was completely necessary when my raiding group was doing BCoB on min item level to allow the healers to outright survive Gigaflares on Turn 13.

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with single or double digit hp!

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Oh wow theres a ff14 topic here!!

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Some Shadowbringers dungeon runs taking over 30 mins. Wtf. I get that any rebalancing for ShB can make older content a joke, but I dunno. Dps seems low? Even with players synced down. Sometimes I can use Sentinel twice on a single trash pack with how slow it goes.

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The Ruby Sea music weirdly reminds me of like... some Dragon Quest village music or something. Can't quite place the track I'm thinking of, but it's definitely familiar.

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BK_Sheikah00 posted...

Some Shadowbringers dungeon runs taking over 30 mins. Wtf. I get that any rebalancing for ShB can make older content a joke, but I dunno. Dps seems low? Even with players synced down. Sometimes I can use Sentinel twice on a single trash pack with how slow it goes.

If a dungeon is taking that long your group is trash.

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Level 70 get!

Also done with Ruby Sea (besides one quest that requires more Palace of the Dead progress)

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LordoftheMorons posted...

As a BLM should I be using addle? Is it only a thing to be worrying about in content hard enough to justify premade groups?

if nothing else, weave it after procs if you think there maybe might be some magical damage coming (or if the boss's autos are magical)

it's not worth sacrificing dps over in trivial content, but there's also zero cost to using it. a badly timed addle is better than no addle at all

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Hmm looks like the welfare gear for finishing the level 70 class quest is relatively a lot weaker than what you get at 60... guess trash mobs will still be slow until I can spend my tombstones

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whats addle, never heard of it

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i'm not surprised you guys have never heard of it, its not called fire iv

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been levelling my blm recently and my god fire 4 is exhilarating

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Ill tell you what

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but you know whats not exhilarating

mechanics and the following brain lapses that cause dropped enochians.......

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I never get as angry as I do about anything in my life than I do when I accidentally drop enochian.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I mean yeah, Feint isn't great, we use it all the time for 6s tankbusters but it's not better. But the ranged stuff is also essentially a role action (it's the same skill reskinned and doesn't stack) so it's a fair comparison to it and Addle. Unless you want to talk about the "amazing" job-specific utility of Minne, Paean (now with an actual use in 8s!), and uh...Healing Waltz and Improvisation?

I'm talking mainly about Addle and tanks having Reprisal and their job-specific actions, all on shorter cooldowns. Mitigation is everywhere now, which is fine, but it's also just a slight upgrade to other cooldowns and not some major benefit.

FWIW, that mitigation is no longer optional these days. Shiva in particular forces literally everyone to mitigate and do it correctly or you just plain die. The very first raidwide of the fight hits for like 130k on dpses and healers, and the basic tankbuster requires about 45-50% mitigations to soak, which makes Feint suddenly super valuable because it's physical. And it still pales in comparison to Troubador/Tac/Samba, which lets you negotiate the like 40-50k raw damage septuple teamwide busters that come in at the tail end of the fight. Ranged pay tax because having 15 second 10% mit is just absurdly powerful.

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KanzarisKelshen posted...

FWIW, that mitigation is no longer optional these days. Shiva in particular forces literally everyone to mitigate and do it correctly or you just plain die. The very first raidwide of the fight hits for like 130k on dpses and healers, and the basic tankbuster requires about 45-50% mitigations to soak, which makes Feint suddenly super valuable because it's physical. And it still pales in comparison to Troubador/Tac/Samba, which lets you negotiate the like 40-50k raw damage septuple teamwide busters that come in at the tail end of the fight. Ranged pay tax because having 15 second 10% mit is just absurdly powerful.

At the time it was released, the last phase of UCOB was the single greatest mitigation/healing check in the entire game. Over the course of 3 minutes there are 5 raidwides (Morn Afah) and 4 tankbusters (Akh Morn). The Akh Morns aren't that bad - the timing works out so that you can have the tanks pop all their CDs and share the first, invuln the next two, and then kitchen sink and share the last.

The real issue is Morn Afah. It's an absurdly powerful shared damage attack that requires all 8 players to be stacked, and then for your group to use at minimum 3 10% damage reductions and a Succor or Noctural Aspected Helios shield. If a single person is out of the stack or a single mitigation isn't used on time, the group wipes. So you break open the entire toolkit, carefully assign every mitigation ability in your party to a very specific timing, and pray that everyone can keep to the plan when they're 17 minutes in to the hardest fight in the game and the adrenaline is rushing through their systems.

Shiva feels relatively similar to an Ultimate fight in that the damage follows a similar profile - i.e. there is a lot of it and you need to plan your mitigation very carefully. This is becoming less and less of an issue as people are outgearing the fight, but certain things (like that Absolute Zero at the start of the fight, or the Akh Morn/Morn Afah spam at the end, or all the waves of damage coming out during Light Rampant) are going to require planned mitigation and healing until the fight is no longer relevant.

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another night of 3 clears and 8s prog

KanzarisKelshen posted...

FWIW, that mitigation is no longer optional these days. Shiva in particular forces literally everyone to mitigate and do it correctly or you just plain die.

can confirm, shit big hurty

i think an unmitigated double slap does 270k, and we use soil+temperance for the first aoe and live with like 10k hp

it's actually sometimes hard to tell in the midst of the fight if we're not mitigating hard enough or if people messed up mechanics and instadied

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