Board 8 > Eff 2019 Mafia: Topic 9 - Dany Kind Of Forgot About The Iron Fleet

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well gee if it's that simple I guess I don't need to spend all day tomorrow investigating you two! Thanks :^)

HanOfTheNekos posted...

If Scum shot Puns N3, then would they shoot him again?

It probably shouldn't come as a surprise that I have spent quite a lot of time thinking about this.

I want to hear other people think it through before I chime in.

benjamin3740 posted...

If you really think Han deserves to be that confident that you and me are the last scum then I guess he would have been justified to take no action at all in your eyes. Because he already knows

Oh my sandwich ben I don't know if you lack reading comprehension or are intentionally twisting my posts

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MZero11 posted...

Oh my sandwich

benjamin3740 posted...

Han didn't take the action because he was confident you and I were the last scum. He even says in his theory that it's me and another

"For example - Two Scum left. Scum Psychic and ???. ??? targets Ben on purpose, knowing both me and MZero are targeting Ben. Ben comes up dirty. We end up lynching MZero, who is the only other person Ben said targeted him. Either MZero is Scum and this is a sac move to make Ben look good, or it's a play, and MZero flips Town and then Ben pushes a ML on me and Scum wins."

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MZero, care to ponder potential reasons for the consecutive no kills?

My guess is they shot MI night 3 because lol lynching quad-voter

Then they must have shot you night 4 trying to avoid the doctor

Other possibilities are MI is bulletproof indy or you went for the no-kill claim bulletproof and sacrifice our roleblocker strategy which would be ridiculous

I doubt they shot you consecutive nights but this is the same team that shot 5tar N1 so who knows!

Occam's razor says it's the first scenario though

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MZero11 posted...

Other possibilities are MI is bulletproof indy or you went for the no-kill claim bulletproof and sacrifice our roleblocker strategy which would be ridiculous

*your roleblocker

Not a good time to miss the 'y' key >_>

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benjamin3740 posted...

He was scanned by mzero though?

Was he?
Okay I legitimately forgot that too, and thats good old news then.
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Ben day 1 and 2 inactive for the most part

Han day 1 having trouble remembering think he was pushing for hb lynch and very tunneled in Hb

Han continued to tunnel on hb until hb was lynched.

Han claimed to be roleblocked a few times.

No one visted Ben until last night claiming it was Corrik and Mzero but neither of them came back as Dirty?

A ben/mzero seems move likely then han mzero scum team.

Ben fucked up his claim and also mistakenly said he was scum that 1 time but more so looked like a mistake then a scum slip but still suspicious that youd fuck up your claim as well as call yourself scum on accident.

My gut is leaning twords it being ben

So

Here

It

Is

##vote:Ben

here to hoping my gut is right

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How do you explain the thief scan then outside of Mzero being scum, is my question.

Because I very much doubt scumBen could ever have NAACP awards on his mind when thinking about what flavor to claim.
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also thinking about
if Han is not lying then either Mzero visited scum or Mzero was visited by scum.
But if Ben and Mzero are both scum, Ben has to be a psychic and cant have been the role that likely got Chris killed. Nor could he have visited Mzero obviously. (he would instead be the most likely to do the regular NK)
And Mzero cant be a fulltime thief when someone has to be the one that led to the extra townkill. But what kind of role would still be able to visit scum at this point and do that as well?

So even if Han is town, I dont see how both mzero and Ben are. And on the other hand I dont see how Ben can be scum without Mzero being scum as well.

Meanwhile I still cant make much sense of Blade VS Han day1, since it looks so genuine. But for all I know Blade and Han disliked each other regardless of their alignment.
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*I dont see how both mzero and Ben are scum

(obviously if Han is town, Ben almost certainly has to be scum after all. Hence the problem)
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htaeD posted...

How do you explain the thief scan then outside of Mzero being scum, is my question.

Because I very much doubt scumBen could ever have NAACP awards on his mind when thinking about what flavor to claim.

Thats a very good point.

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My brain hurts lol ill definitely have to go back and reread

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An Sbell ISO should be helpful today:

Sbell voted Ben right away day1. He kept repeating himself time after time how Ben was not doing much like usual, like a broken record.
He didnt even pursue anyone else that day and left his vote there. Knowing that day1 came down to town vs town vs town (and probably town MI), I can see why he didnt give a care that his vote lingered on Ben.

Then day2, he and blade obviously both bussed Scare right out of the gate while everyone else ignored scare at first. This also caused sbell to forget his Ben hatred I guess.
Puns to his credit is the first to even want others to talk about sbell day2, though MI did grill him a bit before that. At this point Sbell also suddenly remembered not liking Ben.

Then in topic5 he posted this

I'm suspicious of Leas role. Pulling Chris into a chat and Chris not being dead.

I did not and still don't like scares end of day one (mind you my activity doesn't speak wonders for me).

Ben has been itching me in a weird way as well.

Han I'm concerned with because normally he'd be down my throat and I'm not seeing that at all. He's also getting aggressive any time anyone says his name.

Corrik is not exactly Corrik, but I'm not ready to chase that rabbit hole.

While he seems to dislike Ben more than Han, this post by itself doesnt really help the current choicemaking.

He stayed with the Scare train, even as the Ben train started to happen. And that is worrying.
Then again if Ben is scum, Scare might have known Ben would claim psychic to get everyone off of him.
Though if Ben was town, Sbell could have jumped ship. Then again it all happened so fast.
And when Blade became the backup train, Sbell still had no reason to get off Scare.

Sbell also seemed rather confused by Bens psychic claim.
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TheSultanOfSlam posted...

My brain hurts lol ill definitely have to go back and reread

Sorry, but it is always nice (and townlooking) to give more effort.
I dont know how much good rereading will do though. Its not helping me too much.
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I re-read a bunch yesterday and ended up going in circles multiple times on Ben/MZero/Han.

Death has a good point though that it likely isn't Ben/MZero - Ben likely is truly psychic if Han was town then MZero visited Ben. Neither is likely to be the poisoner that target Chris N1, then.

MZero and Han both have claimed to visit Chris N1 though.
But why would scum MZero claim that when he knows that Han had the dirty scan?

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htaeD posted...

Sorry, but it is always nice (and townlooking) to give more effort.
I dont know how much good rereading will do though. Its not helping me too much.

Ill do the work and maybe ill see somthing if i iso the 2. Im at work now however so ill do waht i can

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Looks like ill need to find the archive

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The archive is somewhere where the LOG topics from gameFAQS.COM

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You know scum could just have a straight up flavor cop as opposed to thief. Get the character's name straight up.

TotallyNotMI posted...

I re-read a bunch yesterday and ended up going in circles multiple times on Ben/MZero/Han.

Death has a good point though that it likely isn't Ben/MZero - Ben likely is truly psychic if Han was town then MZero visited Ben. Neither is likely to be the poisoner that target Chris N1, then.

MZero and Han both have claimed to visit Chris N1 though.
But why would scum MZero claim that when he knows that Han had the dirty scan?

can you rephrase this whole post I'm not following

ok after finishing my coffee and rereading death's post and rereading your post like 5 times I think I am there

though I should say it feels a bit naive to just handwave the possibility of roles like psychic jack or psychic name cop or whatever

htaeD posted...

But if Ben and Mzero are both scum, Ben has to be a psychic

technically, wouldn't Ben/Mzero teammates be the only scenario where ben doesn't have to actually be psychic? >_>

I mean he definitely is, just sayin

turbopuns3 posted...

You know scum could just have a straight up flavor cop as opposed to thief. Get the character's name straight up.

Still doesnt seem that useful. But who knows
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turbopuns3 posted...

technically, wouldn't Ben/Mzero teammates be the only scenario where ben doesn't have to actually be psychic? >_>

I mean he definitely is, just sayin

He probably wouldnt be so confident that han didnt target him if he wasn't
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htaeD posted...

He probably wouldnt be so confident that han didnt target him if he wasn't

oh right I was only thinking of false positives not false negatives

some musings while I should really be working, but hell it's Friday:

Ben
-I'm inclined to give ben credit for being quick to call for Han's head after Han claimed (saying that Han's claim was too similar to his role)

-however, quite oddly, right after Han claimed Ben also posted a list removing power claims and people he trusts, in order to narrow down scum, and Han was...not on that list? Ben, anything to say about that one?

-another comment is that I can't give Ben 100% credit for the quick counter, because it is clear from his day 1 that he was planning to claim psychic from the very beginning of the game which is possible for scum psychic to do as well

-although if ben was honest when he said his MO as scum is always prioritizing survival...locking in your scum claim day 1 for no real reason doesn't seem to fit. (though, of course he could have just dropped all the LockOnTarget stuff and called himself vanilla starting day 2 if he wanted...which would be suspicious except it also loops back around to giving him slightly more town points for the quick counter >_< head spinning...)

Han
-the pretty obvious scum play from Han was to suck up to Chris since he had already been poisoned and he knew that Chris was going to be dead after Day 2. So get on Chris's good side right before he bites the dust.

-though his whole angle through the entirety of day 2 is almost flawless if he is scum doing that angle. from suspecting Lea for vote behavior to immediately doubling down on it by interrogating Chris after the private chat reveal because it made sense given his role that Lea scum -> Chris town

-basically if Han is scum, he definitely had an idea for his claim from the moment he decided to target Chris N1 (which, makes a lot of sense because any scum targeting Chris N1 is always going to half expect to be forced to talk about it at some point since Chris is such a popular target)

-I really do like Han's day 2 personally. Chris did too. I only wonder if it ever crossed Chris's mind that Han might just be sucking up to him knowing he was going to die. But after just typing that I feel like that is just being ridiculously disrespectful to the greatest mafia player in the world to suggest that he wouldn't consider the possibility of a good scum player sucking up to him. Like yeah obviously Chris considered it. Don't be stupid puns.

-the biggest red flag to me with Han is he just...felt like he super deflated at a point. idk it's weird and could possibly be explained by the fact he was hoping to offer himself up as power hunting bait as a spent poisoner by doing the claiming blocked thing multiple days but it never happened and so after a couple days he was like, checked out mentally but still not getting lynched and he just kinda lost interest. Though, saying that, you know what it just really does not make sense to me that a Scum Han who is coasting through the game would become disinterested. In fact that is actually kinda weird to think.

I know I am going to be unpopular but I really would not be shocked even a little to learn that Han and Ben are both town. There are town signs in both of their claims in terms of how and when and why they claimed and they both had logical lead ups to it. (for ben, obviously fishing to get targeted and for han, the way he suspected lea/trusted chris then super perked up regarding the chat reveal and doubled down on Lea as scum waaaaay before we ever threatened to lynch him)

That does bring it back around to MZero almost needing to be Scum based on setup meta. And there's that weird point about potential Scum MZero choosing to claim having targeted Chris N1 even though a Town Han had already revealed Chris was targeted by Scum N1. Though tbh it was pretty easy to assume Chris was targeted by Scum N1 regardless so maybe it didn't seem that dangerous or hell maybe it didn't even cross his mind to say it. If MZero is scum and Ben/Han are town then MZero had to try to go toe-to-toe with them to lynch them anyway so why worry about being at odds with them slightly more?

Another thing is it feels a little weird to have a cop and a thief if the thief is just fully reliable which essentially makes them Cop, Jr.

If we have town thief then scum would almost necessarily need to have safe list claims available which would mirror all their flavors close enough to be accurate to a thief, otherwise we just have two cops.

Oh yeah there is that whole thing where if Han and Ben are both town then that means scum targeted MZero.

Scum Han and Scum Ben orchestrating a double counter on investigative roles during day 2 when the Cop died day 1 seems utterly silly and self-destructive.

Scum Ben, individually, countering a Town Investigative Claim on day 2, when the cop died day 1, seems so reckless and not worth it, like why would Scum Ben feel compelled to go out of his way to try to draw power onto him with the cop already gone? I mean one could argue that it's relatively safer to do this with the cop gone but still, it's definitely an early "all-in" type move without a great reason and coupled with the fact he was already acting like a psychic from day 1. Once the cop got lynched why not just claim vanilla and skirt by.

I gotta read day 3.

Hans claim and Bens claim both feel like attempts to save themselves. But Hans moreso due to what he said day2 about Chris being town.
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It's true ben didn't claim fully until under pressure but he committed to that well before. When Han claimed Ben immediately locked himself into claiming psychic.

Are You Happy In This VOTAL World?
[2] Ben - Han, Sultan
[1] Han - Ben

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch! Day ends at 9 PM CST tonight!

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##vote: mzero

Not sure if I missed something in that post

If you think Ben/Han could both be town how does that correspond to Han getting dirty when targeting Mzero?

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turbopuns3 posted...

Oh yeah there is that whole thing where if Han and Ben are both town then that means scum targeted MZero.

As it turns out I do not know what roles are on the scum team.

Here is why I'm voting MZero:

-there are worlds where any pair out of that trio can be scum, and Ben/Han makes the least sense

-there are also worlds where only one of that trio is scum, and in those worlds, Town MZero is the most illuminating if we miss

-in general MZero has the least town equity of that trio

Okay yeah I missed that line.

I just... don't see a scum power that targets teammates around still, unless they have something really out there to mess with Han's role.

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I feel more like the divide is between Han and Ben than it is between Mzero and anyone.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

If Scum shot Puns N3, then would they shoot him again?

turbopuns3 posted...

It probably shouldn't come as a surprise that I have spent quite a lot of time thinking about this.

I want to hear other people think it through before I chime in.

By the way MI do you wanna take a turn here

TotallyNotMI posted...

Okay yeah I missed that line.

I just... don't see a scum power that targets teammates around still, unless they have something really out there to mess with Han's role.

I don't generally rely on making assumptions about the scum setup based on... literally nothing except "well idk!" /shrug

Regardless I'm not trying to push an agenda that Han and Ben are both town. I just said it wouldn't shock me, and MZero could be scum with either of them anyway so

htaeD posted...

I feel more like the divide is between Han and Ben than it is between Mzero and anyone.

What do you mean by this?

Actually on that note, referring to post 244, Han can you explain where you even got started with the line of thought to pose the question in the first place

Because Han called Ben scum for Mzero coming up dirty after visiting Ben, and the odds of scum visiting Mzero seem drastically low.
Ben and Han cant both be telling the truth is what that is saying.
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turbopuns3 posted...

By the way MI do you wanna take a turn here

I'm fairly confident I was the N3 kill.

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benjamin3740 posted...

Oh wait I guess scum knew that no one visited Chris.

And then there's a poisoner.

What were Han's supposed scans again?

I'm reading the posts leading up to this one and I have no clue what this was a follow up to, or what it means, or anything. What is this exactly.