Board 8 > Eff 2019 Mafia: Topic 9 - Dany Kind Of Forgot About The Iron Fleet

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'd sooner believe a scumpsychic than a scumthief. But if Han is scum, then both can be town after all.
And it will be interesting to see if Han has anything to say.
---

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Sooo im hesident on Han only beacuse i still cant get over ben messing up his claim.. like how does one do that... unless they are scum and hesitate beacuse they claimed something but then look back and was like shit this person makes more sense.. like if youre town claiming is easy.. look at your fucking PM... idk maybe im just skeptical

On pure reads Ben has been far and away the scummier player, yeah.

---

Ben is the far scummier player & Han has things that flat out don't make sense for him as scum (roleblocked, that fight with Blade).

But with MZero getting a NAACP Image award, unless those are the last two scum...

---

I looked at the 2019 NAACP Image Award winners to see if any of them might fit scum flavor on the off chance that perhaps Ben just got lucky picking flavor.

There's Black Panther, but I don't see Endgame / Black Panther both being scum.

But also he's confirmed psychic, so I don't see Black Panther fitting that, either.

So the only way I see Ben scum is MZero scum.

---

So I can remove Puns. If I remove MZero and all of his scans we have an issue where Han is the only one left. Which means either MZero is scum or one of his scans got really lucky with picking safelist flavor.

Hm.

---

Black Panther I think came out in 2018 anyway? The awards happened in 2019, but I don't think the movie would dit the flavor

---

MZero11 posted...

Death could be Miller that protects against thief, too.

This doesn't make any sense.

---

MZero11 posted...

Black Panther I think came out in 2018 anyway? The awards happened in 2019, but I don't think the movie would dit the flavor

Good point.

---

TotallyNotMI posted...

This doesn't make any sense.

...whoops. I got mixed up in my head and was thinking godfather, which obviously doesn't make sense with Scare flipped

---

Hi!

Targeted MZero last night.

He came up dirty.

---

To clarify on that, since people have been confused over my role, that means either MZero targeted Scum, or Scum targeted MZero.

:)

---

I somehow knew that was what you were going to say.

Probably is I could see that being said with you as town or scum.

Hm.

---

If Han is scum here, we lynch Ben, he flips town. Han can argue scum must have targeted MZero instead of him targeting scum.

If Han is town here, but we lynch Han, he flips town. Ben can argue the same thing, that MZero was targeted by scum.

---

Although fact of the matter is I still don't believe Han & Ben can co-exist as town together.

So if MZero is scum thief who actually --

No wait, if Ben/Han and MZero are scum then town is too weak with investigation.

I think I'm getting too sucked down with role meta. I should just re-read and get back to basics here.

---

The chance that MZero was targeted by Scum last night is negligible, imo

---

I also don't see it at all possible that scum targeted Mzero. Han's just trying to call me scum, aka he's lyin.

Han why didn't you target me?

---

I hope anyone's not actually considering Han's telling the truth here. First two days he apparently targeted me because it was obvious. Last night we kill roleblocker, Han has a chance to definitively determine Mzero's alignment, and also prove that he can actually target me, but he doesn't. And I'm sure that's because he can't, at least without revealing something.

---

TotallyNotMI posted...

Although fact of the matter is I still don't believe Han & Ben can co-exist as town together.

I don't get this stance. What's so wrong with it?

Not saying they ARE both town. But why can't they be?

While this is unlikely to happen, if they were all town theoretically

Red
Corrik
Han
MZero

Could all target Ben. Han reports they are all town.

Too many people could get towncleared at once.

---

Oh that

Yeah I just disagree. It only confirms two people as town, and even then there are ways scum can interfere with it. And the two people who get confirmed are cop and doctor, which I don't think comfirming the doctor and the cop by outing them is all that "good" for town. But maybe I'm just bad at these meta things /shrug

TotallyNotMI posted...

MZero

Oh and thief

I mean obviously in this hypothetical the thief is not town...

benjamin3740 posted...

I hope anyone's not actually considering Han's telling the truth here. First two days he apparently targeted me because it was obvious. Last night we kill roleblocker, Han has a chance to definitively determine Mzero's alignment, and also prove that he can actually target me, but he doesn't. And I'm sure that's because he can't, at least without revealing something.

I can see why he would act this way as town, but I'm going to hold off on explaining why until he answers.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

The chance that MZero was targeted by Scum last night is negligible, imo

Shouldn't you be voting ben, then?

---

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Hi!

Targeted MZero last night.

He came up dirty.

Why on earth didnt you just target Ben?
---

Puns I also dont like how you are sounding like you dont mind Hans action here.
---

Tbh I don't mind Han's action but I'll let him speak to his thought process before I answer why.

---

I mean, his action is kinda implying I'm scum. That's my tip-off that he's full of it >_>

For Mzero to get targeted by scum, it basically points to Mzero being town. I see no scenario where Han and Mzero are both town. So Mzero didn't get targeted by scum. Han's claim is meant to put doubt on me.

---

htaeD posted...

Puns I also dont like how you are sounding like you dont mind Hans action here.

MZero11 posted...

I can see why he would act this way as town, but I'm going to hold off on explaining why until he answers.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Tbh I don't mind Han's action but I'll let him speak to his thought process before I answer why.

Okay my bad. I don't know how that mistaken identity case happened
---

Didn't target Ben because it didn't account for the variable of Ben being Scum. Let's say I target Ben - if he came up dirty, then that would mean he could determine what the result was. If it came up clean, once again, he could decide the narrative.

For example - Two Scum left. Scum Psychic and ???. ??? targets Ben on purpose, knowing both me and MZero are targeting Ben. Ben comes up dirty. We end up lynching MZero, who is the only other person Ben said targeted him. Either MZero is Scum and this is a sac move to make Ben look good, or it's a play, and MZero flips Town and then Ben pushes a ML on me and Scum wins.

Or Ben is Town and I missed my chance to tell us decidedly if MZero was Town or Scum.

Too many variables.

MZero was most likely targeting Ben, so I figured it'd be better to just go with the play that could confirm more decidedly on Ben.

---

.... You managed to give a logical explanation I didnt even expect.

Still, Mzero's scan would have given us more info on Ben, how do we account for the thief scan on him?

when did he change his flavor?

And I cannot entirely like that now we dont have the variable of being able to trust you, when we would have been able to the other way around. (Unless you and Ben were both scum)
---

So
HanOfTheNekos posted...

Didn't target Ben because it didn't account for the variable of Ben being Scum. Let's say I target Ben - if he came up dirty, then that would mean he could determine what the result was. If it came up clean, once again, he could decide the narrative.

For example - Two Scum left. Scum Psychic and ???. ??? targets Ben on purpose, knowing both me and MZero are targeting Ben. Ben comes up dirty. We end up lynching MZero, who is the only other person Ben said targeted him. Either MZero is Scum and this is a sac move to make Ben look good, or it's a play, and MZero flips Town and then Ben pushes a ML on me and Scum wins.

Or Ben is Town and I missed my chance to tell us decidedly if MZero was Town or Scum.

Too many variables.

MZero was most likely targeting Ben, so I figured it'd be better to just go with the play that could confirm more decidedly on Ben.

You didn't trust Mzero's scan to already provide enough info on me???

How does scum me control the narrative with a clean scan? And me controlling a dirty scan relies on scum having another role that actually can visit a buddy. Also in your theory, scum team is visiting me, so wtf does targeting Mzero accomplish?


---

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Didn't target Ben because it didn't account for the variable of Ben being Scum

Yeah this is basically my thought process.

He could prove MZero town/scum or he could prove Ben scum/town.

If he thought MZero was town / Ben was scum already, going for the GUILTY scan is better in my minds.

---

It sounds like you're saying you used your ability solely to determine my alignment, and Mzero was already going to be doing that.

Plus if I lie about results on who visited me, then you just caught scum me. I absolutely do not buy it that you didn't target me because you were scared of me lying.

---

inb4 2019 Psychicproof

TotallyNotMI posted...

Yeah this is basically my thought process.

He could prove MZero town/scum or he could prove Ben scum/town.

If he thought MZero was town / Ben was scum already, going for the GUILTY scan is better in my minds.

If he thought Mzero was town then he would have used his scan for something more useful since Mzero is already going to scan me with something much more definitive. And he could have used his ability on me to prove Mzero town so he could help kill me and make today easy

Lololol

---

turbopuns3 posted...

inb4 2019 Psychicproof

If Han was Ninja anything he wouldn't be able to target me

---

It...was a joke... >_>

Anyway I have a question for death.

Can you explain what your role does?

benjamin3740 posted...

So

You didn't trust Mzero's scan to already provide enough info on me???

MZero could be Scum.

You could've picked fakeclaim flavor that was similar to our own.

benjamin3740 posted...

How does scum me control the narrative with a clean scan?

That's immaterial to the argument.

benjamin3740 posted...

I absolutely do not buy it that you didn't target me because you were scared of me lying.

This is also immaterial at this point.

In case it wasn't spelled out enough:

##Vote: Ben

This is also just obvious as fuck because the first thing you did today was vote me. You're not trying to find Scum. You're just trying to get me lynched.

---

turbopuns3 posted...

inb4 2019 Psychicproof

I know this is a joke. But I am also laughing at the realization that there is basically no point to scum ever needed a psychicproof role when their most common actions either dont affect a psychic anyway or outright kill it.
---

HanOfTheNekos posted...

You could've picked fakeclaim flavor that was similar to our own.

What does this mean?

---

My expectation is that it's Ben/MZero and Scum planned to sac MZero with my scan. Thus, when The Plan went awry, Ben would know that I targeted one of the other people with a claimed power. Which means he knew I would get a dirty scan and came in ready to try to set the narrative right away.

---

TotallyNotMI posted...

What does this mean?

it means I didn't strike the "y" key when trying to type "your own"

---

turbopuns3 posted...

Anyway I have a question for death.

Can you explain what your role does?

I am a miller that is a miller (as I said before, my role PM does not mention scanners of any kind)
I'd assume that makes me affectable by a thief. But then again by their very nature, millers tend to get flavor claims that thread the line between scum and townflavor.
---

Han, I dont see how you can say a town Ben wouldnt have voted you at this point.
---

htaeD posted...

Han, I dont see how you can say a town Ben wouldnt have voted you at this point.

Very first post of the day, without asking for any sort of clarification or looking for info?

That's not a Town post in the slightest.

---

I mean, "Person with night action didn't target me, ergo, they are Scum" is enough of a leap that going into the day with that exact mindset is just proof that he knew he'd need to discredit me as early as possible. I didn't target Ben. I broke the Scumplan.

---

HanOfTheNekos posted...

MZero could be Scum.

So use your power on me to find that out? If he's town you waste your power.

You could've picked fakeclaim flavor that was similar to our own.

Scum doesnt pick the flavor the thief gets from them.

That's immaterial to the argument.

You said I could control the narrative if I came back clean. I dont see any possible scenario where that's accurate.

In case it wasn't spelled out enough:

##Vote: Ben

This is also just obvious as fuck because the first thing you did today was vote me. You're not trying to find Scum. You're just trying to get me lynched.

I found scum as soon as i got my result back and saw that only mzero and Corrik visited me. Every other player expect you and Mzero are also town confirmed basically.

---

I guess it's also still possible that MZero isn't Scum, and that Scum planned for me to get a guilty result without psychic putting the Scummate's name up, setting up an MZero->Han Mislynch train.

---

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Very first post of the day, without asking for any sort of clarification or looking for info?

That's not a Town post in the slightest.

Oh now I get ya.
You know this could all have been avoided if people had planned their actions for the night.
Then again I also expected you to say you didnt target Ben to test if he was really psychic, so a lot of tactics apply here.
---