Board 8 > Eff 2019 Mafia: Topic 9 - Dany Kind Of Forgot About The Iron Fleet

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benjamin3740 posted...

You said I could control the narrative if I came back clean. I dont see any possible scenario where that's accurate.

I mean, you could say that MZero didn't target you. I didn't really think through that train of thought that much, but once again, it's immaterial.

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htaeD posted...

Oh now I get ya.
You know this could all have been avoided if people had planned their actions for the night.
Then again I also expected you to say you didnt target Ben to test if he was really psychic, so a lot of tactics apply here.

I didn't consider that angle in the slightest. Was no doubt to me that Ben is a psychic.

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You dont get him Death, stop. I already had it down to just Mzero and Han as possible scum since yesterday. Saw Han didnt target me. He's done

Like he's clearly avoiding proving himself, because he cant.

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With this many people left that are "town confirmed" through flavor scan, you'd think an intelligent town, which Han is, would recognize the importance of confirming FUCKING MZERO. Finding out Mzero is the key here, because the rest can be figured out by process of elimination. The action makes no sense

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Yes, I claimed an every-night action on day 2 without being able to back it up. Great theory.

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"Han is an intelligent player."
"Han made a very stupid claim on day 2."

Pick one!

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I mean yes none of this proves that Han is town either. And from the very start I expected Han to have a way out, because he got too much wiggle room in the previous day.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Yes, I claimed an every-night action on day 2 without being able to back it up. Great theory.

?
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htaeD posted...

?

sarcasm

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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Yes, I claimed an every-night action on day 2 without being able to back it up. Great theory.

The only thing stopping you is me, the psychic. I claimed after you. If you're scum you know who is dirty or clean one way, and you only target people who can't move to make sure you're good going the other way.

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Nothing else explains you picking Death to target as well >_>

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The truth is we're running out of scum here, and scum is running out of town to kill thanks to Mzero's doings. So of course Han has to frame me.

You kill me today, you get to kill Han tomorrow. Don't let him spin it that scum visited Mzero.

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benjamin3740 posted...

Nothing else explains you picking Death to target as well >_>

I thought he was Doctor

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Oh now that massclaim comment makes sense.

And tbh, at this point the only useful role to town is Mzero.
Ben would still be useful, if Han ever targeted him.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

I thought he was Doctor

Wut

I thought you said you targeted him because you thought he was scum or at least were unsure about him

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MZero, did you have no concern about potentially dying with info, on the day when we discussed massclaiming but didn't?

Ben, can you talk me through the full timeline of your feelings about MZero since the game started?

Han, you're in this game! Perfect. Because I had this thought and you are just the man to weigh in on it.

Death has claimed to be "people who temporarily boycotted blizzard", town Miller. And MZero has said to have stolen Dr. Boom from him.

Does that feel a little off to you? Like, I'm kinda getting vibes akin to "Gatsby's Gardener" from that. Death claims that he is "a miller who is a miller" and apparently the host didn't explain to him what a miller is supposed to do?

I DUNNO...that all seems very fishy, plus the fact I can't create a sensible 5 man team that feels good without including someone weird like Death or MI, and 4 seems small unless there's a 3rd party, plus all these other thoughts bouncing around in my head because of my role and the consecutive no kills and I JUST MIGHT LOSE IT this game is fun

benjamin3740 posted...

Wut

I thought you said you targeted him because you thought he was scum or at least were unsure about him

why would I target someone I think is Scum with my ability? Jesus Ben, do you think I'm braindead?

turbopuns3 posted...

Han, you're in this game! Perfect. Because I had this thought and you are just the man to weigh in on it.

Death has claimed to be "people who temporarily boycotted blizzard", town Miller. And MZero has said to have stolen Dr. Boom from him.

Does that feel a little off to you? Like, I'm kinda getting vibes akin to "Gatsby's Gardener" from that. Death claims that he is "a miller who is a miller" and apparently the host didn't explain to him what a miller is supposed to do?

I DUNNO...that all seems very fishy, plus the fact I can't create a sensible 5 man team that feels good without including someone weird like Death or MI, and 4 seems small unless there's a 3rd party, plus all these other thoughts bouncing around in my head because of my role and the consecutive no kills and I JUST MIGHT LOSE IT this game is fun

I feel like it's probably just Ben and MZero.

I see Death as being next most likely, though? That would be requiring MZero to be Town, so in that event, it'd be worth looking at, but I really think the game is just as it appears to be at the moment.

Doctor Boom as a card came out in 2018 though, so it's a little weird for it to be what was stolen. I will admit that "People who boycotted Blizzard" also doesn't feel like it fits either team?


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I can see a pretty clear reason why MZero/Ben are unlikely to both be scum together if Han is town. Based on claimed night results...

Then again this scum team seems to be employing the "they can't decipher our team if our night actions don't make sense" approach, so who knows <_<

Now this starts to sound like Puns is trying to set me up as the mislynch he needs.
Hope thats just my old paranoia talking. (He could say the same about me, all is fair)

Far be it from me to question a hosts decision, but I assume Suprak simply didnt want me to meta if there were scanners in the game or not. *shrug*

Also, and I dont care how fun this sentence always is, If I were scum, I would still ask for fake flavor from Suprak and it would probably still be the same.

Oh and Han, you are not getting the flavor.
Its not 'people who boycotted Blizzard'
Its (and I paraphrase) 'people who boycotted Blizzard in very lame ways and crawled back to them as soon as Blizzard gave them new treats'

I know nothing about the game, maybe Doctor Boom is just a popular in the metagame?
But that question doesnt even matter unless you think Mzero is scum.
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Also I know Sultan has been super genuine sounding, but there is still that nagging thought that nothing has 100 % confirmed him.
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turbopuns3 posted...

MZero, did you have no concern about potentially dying with info, on the day when we discussed massclaiming but didn't?

Along this same line, I went back and checked.

The day after he scanned Corrik, he never posted a single thing about Corrik.
The day after he scanned Death, he never posted a single thing about Death.

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Which seems much more like scum thief checking town members tbh.

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Scumthief still seems like a weak role, but not beyond the realm of possibilities.
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Scum doesn't even need to have a full-fledged thief for MZero to be scum. He's only given 1 flavor of someone who hadn't already claimed

Hm.

So, removing Chris's "town core" from the players still alive leaves...

Ben and MZero.

Lol.

But I don't think (was going to see if anyone else mentioned this but the game seems lifeless so I'll just go on) that, if MZero and Ben were scum together, that MZero would actually target Ben last night. No reason to. Ben could just report whichever version is more convenient for the situation (either MZero did target him or he didn't). All MZero targeting Ben would accomplish would be enabling Han to possibly get a dirty result on either of them.

Considering Han is claiming MZero came up dirty when Ben had already said MZero targeted him, I find little reason to think Ben/MZero are a scum pair.

This of course doesn't make them both town nor does it make Han scum, necessarily.

turbopuns3 posted...

Ben, can you talk me through the full timeline of your feelings about MZero since the game started?

From like the beginning of the game until he claimed he was in my "no read" pile, which is not necessarily good since it meant I had no town reads on him. When he claimed thief i immediately assumed scum thief. Cop + me + Han + him was too much. I was open to Han or both being scum, but would have killed Mzero first. And then Han today is obviously the scum for the things he's claiming. But if the game doesn't end with Han dying I would go for Mzero again. Unless Han flipped a scum investigative role, then I'd highly doubt Mzero being scum

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htaeD posted...

Also I know Sultan has been super genuine sounding, but there is still that nagging thought that nothing has 100 % confirmed him.

He was scanned by mzero though?

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The thing I can think there, puns, is if those are the last two scum Mzero targeted Ben so that one of them would look confirmed and coast through the game

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From that reasoning, it follows that if MZero is scum, then:

1) ben is not his teammate

And either

2a) Han is his teammate (framing Ben with Han's made up power)
or
2b) both MZero AND another scum still have powers to target people without killing (since in this branch, Scum MZero targeted Town Ben AND also came up dirty to Town Han)

TotallyNotMI posted...

The thing I can think there, puns, is if those are the last two scum Mzero targeted Ben so that one of them would look confirmed and coast through the game

Idk, I feel like their best option would be just have ben lie and spin it however they want based on Han's action

All they knew coming into day would've been Han didn't target Ben. Couldn't have known for sure he targeted MZero. But ben immediately revealed that MZero did target him

Seems just unnecessarily fast and loose, eh

Sorry for being kind of inactive i caught a cold and had to ref a swim meet today so its been a long day still not feeling the greatest. Any was so one of ben and han is scum and maybe mzero with them?

Also Mi Maybe a 3rd party?

I think Mi being 3rd party theory is kind of a streach just think he has been ineffective town.

Hb vs han was something maybe to go back and look at.

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turbopuns3 posted...

MZero, did you have no concern about potentially dying with info, on the day when we discussed massclaiming but didn't?

Not really. From my perspective, there was no reason for scum to kill me at that point because I was a viable mslynch. If I was close to getting lynched I would have claimed obviously

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Anyway Han's action makes a lot of sense if he thinks Ben and I are the last scum. In that case, you want Ben dead first because I would have a hard time mislynching anyone because my thief results clear Sultan and Death, MI is quad voter, puns is uncountered BP, and that leaves Han who just murdered Ben. Whereas if I died first and was scum, that puts Sultan and Death back on the table and makes life easier for Ben.

Basically, if you think I'm scum you want my teammate dead first regardless so they can't push mislynches on Sultan and Death. I think I would have done the same thing in Han's position last night

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Okay Puns, I see what you're saying.

Which brings us back around to Death? Or Sultan?

For Puns to be Scum, Scum would have had to intentionally no killed the night after not having a kill, so I feel pretty confident saying Puns is Town.

If Scum shot Puns N3, then would they shoot him again?

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MZero11 posted...

Anyway Han's action makes a lot of sense if he thinks Ben and I are the last scum. In that case, you want Ben dead first because I would have a hard time mislynching anyone because my thief results clear Sultan and Death, MI is quad voter, puns is uncountered BP, and that leaves Han who just murdered Ben. Whereas if I died first and was scum, that puts Sultan and Death back on the table and makes life easier for Ben.

Basically, if you think I'm scum you want my teammate dead first regardless so they can't push mislynches on Sultan and Death. I think I would have done the same thing in Han's position last night

What the hell.... Eff this post man. Like what is your point in this post Other than to suck up to Han?

You say that Han is justified because he would have logically thought me and you are the last scum. If you're town, wouldn't that mean you think me and Han are the last scum? So why are you defending him?

You're saying his visit makes sense okay, but you haven't said a word about the much more important thing. He said he scanned you dirty. So do you think he's lying or what? You can't have it both ways where everyone is town. Or I guess by defending Han here you're just trying to build up the shade on me without confronting me directly?

Could you sound anymore like scum buddies with Han from this post, jeez

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MZero11 posted...

Basically, if you think I'm scum you want my teammate dead first regardless so they can't push mislynches on Sultan and Death. I think I would have done the same thing in Han's position last night

Also wtf you didn't just imply that you know Sultan and Death are town, you implied that HAN knows Sultan and death are town. Or am I reading this wrong?

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Puns you're unlimited bullet proof or one shot?

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benjamin3740 posted...

What the hell.... Eff this post man. Like what is your point in this post Other than to suck up to Han?

You say that Han is justified because he would have logically thought me and you are the last scum. If you're town, wouldn't that mean you think me and Han are the last scum? So why are you defending him?

You're saying his visit makes sense okay, but you haven't said a word about the much more important thing. He said he scanned you dirty. So do you think he's lying or what? You can't have it both ways where everyone is town. Or I guess by defending Han here you're just trying to build up the shade on me without confronting me directly?

Could you sound anymore like scum buddies with Han from this post, jeez

yes I have been calling you scum for 3 straight in game days but I am building up the shade without confronting you directly >_> what

I never said it's logical that Han would think we are scum, I said IF he thinks we are, his action makes sense. and he said earlier he thinks we are the last scum

The only reason I think your town is because of my thief result, but even that is suspect because you changed your flavor after you claimed. Admittedly it's hard to imagine you got lucky and changed it to match the thief result, but also my reads tell me your scum and Han is town so I'm more inclined to believe him based on that

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benjamin3740 posted...

Also wtf you didn't just imply that you know Sultan and Death are town, you implied that HAN knows Sultan and death are town. Or am I reading this wrong?

First of all, I'm talking from the perspective of someone who thinks I'm scum, so not me. Second of all, there aren't 3 scum left so if Han thinks you and I are scum, obviously death and Sultan wouldn't be. Third of all, I didn't say anyone KNOWS anything, just imagining what their thought process is.

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MZero11 posted...

yes I have been calling you scum for 3 straight in game days but I am building up the shade without confronting you directly >_> what

I never said it's logical that Han would think we are scum, I said IF he thinks we are, his action makes sense. and he said earlier he thinks we are the last scum

The only reason I think your town is because of my thief result, but even that is suspect because you changed your flavor after you claimed. Admittedly it's hard to imagine you got lucky and changed it to match the thief result, but also my reads tell me your scum and Han is town so I'm more inclined to believe him based on that

He acted like he made that decision that we're the last scum today. His action was taken last night. Plus when he explained why he didn't visit me he said it was because he was afraid of me trying to frame you by making a scum buddy visit me and then say that only you did. LOL

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MZero11 posted...

First of all, I'm talking from the perspective of someone who thinks I'm scum, so not me. Second of all, there aren't 3 scum left so if Han thinks you and I are scum, obviously death and Sultan wouldn't be. Third of all, I didn't say anyone KNOWS anything, just imagining what their thought process is.

If you really think Han deserves to be that confident that you and me are the last scum then I guess he would have been justified to take no action at all in your eyes. Because he already knows

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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Didn't target Ben because it didn't account for the variable of Ben being Scum. Let's say I target Ben - if he came up dirty, then that would mean he could determine what the result was. If it came up clean, once again, he could decide the narrative.

For example - Two Scum left. Scum Psychic and ???. ??? targets Ben on purpose, knowing both me and MZero are targeting Ben. Ben comes up dirty. We end up lynching MZero, who is the only other person Ben said targeted him. Either MZero is Scum and this is a sac move to make Ben look good, or it's a play, and MZero flips Town and then Ben pushes a ML on me and Scum wins.

Or Ben is Town and I missed my chance to tell us decidedly if MZero was Town or Scum.

Han didn't take the action because he was confident you and I were the last scum. He even says in his theory that it's me and another


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I am here til the bitter end

Well im glad because everyone seems a little disengaged for a day where Han has claimed scum. >_> Unless you think Mzero was actually dirty and it's me. In which case you should be examining me and Han or something because we're today's choices

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benjamin3740 posted...

we're today's choices

Ultimately likely though it'd be a waste to spend 48 hours tunneling you two

"Ur scum"

"No ur scum"

"No u"

Truly riveting >_<

I mean. If you think me and Mzero aren't scum together, and me and Han aren't scum together, the choice is clear.

Unless you think im scum alone or scum with someone else, the logic for me being town is there!

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