Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 256: We're saying "Merry Christmas" again!

(+) Yeah! (+)

LordoftheMorons posted...

In other news, early contender for most pathetic tweet of the year from North Carolina's junior senator:

https://twitter.com/ThomTillis/status/1213595744592154625

lmao the comment/like ratio is now literally like 50

---

https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1213860357040721922?s=19

Not that I really wanted troops in Iraq but getting kicked out is not how I thought withdrawal would go down

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1213860357040721922?s=19

Not that I really wanted troops in Iraq but getting kicked out is not how I thought withdrawal would go down

No withdrawal is happening because of a non-binding resolution by the Iraqi Parliament

---

Trump 4D chess'd our leaving Iraq. About time.

---

Apparently Newt Gingrich figured out how to reverse aging on Fox News. That's cool.

---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

No withdrawal is happening because of a non-binding resolution by the Iraqi Parliament

It has the backing of the Prime Minister, unofficially until he signs it. At the very least it could mark a shift in the Iraqi government's cooperation.

---

https://twitter.com/meetthepress/status/1213840751190323201?s=21

Pompeo is such a fucking piece of shit. Hes also a proven liar (recall that he said he was unaware of the Perfect Phone Call and then turned out to have been on the call), and its ridiculous that the media are taking anything he says to have any credibility.

---

Why did you quote yourself? And, I think removing a terrorist that has killed hundreds of Americans is probably a good thing.

---

Are we buying the story that we lured him into Iraq under the premise of peace talks?

---

I meant to edit and apparently fucked up and hit quote instead

---

banananor posted...

Are we buying the story that we lured him into Iraq under the premise of peace talks?

No. He was stated to be heading there in the news beforehand. He was traveling very much brazenly in the past few years.

That said, this is like the third or 4th time in the last couple years the parliament has wanted the US out of Iraq. Nothing new really.

---

Corrik7 posted...

Why did you quote yourself? And, I think removing a terrorist that has killed hundreds of Americans is probably a good thing.

Much like any actions in the Middle East, not exists in a vacuum.


---

TheRock1525 posted...

Much like any actions in the Middle East, not exists in a vacuum.

So you believe terrorism that kills Americans should be allowed if a government supports the terrorist?

So, if Osama Bin Laden is orchestrating planes into World Trade Centers we should just stand idly by if he is a member of the Pakistani Government?

---

Corrik7 posted...

So you believe terrorism that kills Americans should be allowed if a government supports the terrorist?

So, if Osama Bin Laden is orchestrating planes into World Trade Centers we should just stand idly by if he is a member of the Pakistani Government?

Is there no action between standing idly by and assassination?

By this logic, a lot of countries have the right to attack us
---

Corrik7 posted...

Why did you quote yourself? And, I think removing a terrorist that has killed hundreds of Americans is probably a good thing.

But do you believe Americans are more safe, in general, now that he's dead?

---

Corrik7 posted...

So you believe terrorism that kills Americans should be allowed if a government supports the terrorist?

So, if Osama Bin Laden is orchestrating planes into World Trade Centers we should just stand idly by if he is a member of the Pakistani Government?

So if Iran responds in a way that leaves thousands of Americans dead, is it still justified?

---

TheRock1525 posted...

So if Iran responds in a way that leaves thousands of Americans dead, is it still justified?

So, you believe we should be afraid of foreign governments and be submissive to them? We should let them kill hundreds of Americans because they *MIGHT* kill thousands in return? At what point are you allowed to take action?

Should we have not went after Osama because by doing so they *MIGHT* have killed tens of thousands instead of just a couple thousand?

At what point do you defend yourself? You are saying to submit to an inferior force and allow the deaths of your citizens out of... Fear?

---

I wish our leaders had any credibility whatsoever

---

No what we shouldn't be doing is sticking our nose in other country's businesses and then get pissed when they have the audacity to fight back.

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

But do you believe Americans are more safe, in general, now that he's dead?

Possibly. The person who had the most information to assess that is the President, who made the call for the action.

He believed that once the line was crossed in killing the American contractor that it had to be dealt with to have less bloodshed in the future.

And, it is important to note that the hundreds of Americans killed and thousands injured through actions orchestrated by him are in the past. They cannot be undone. Saying but what if a thousand die due to this action instead of just the hundreds is a false correlation. The hundreds remain dead in the scenario of him dead or not. The question is, will less die going forward then would have if he had lived. If a thousand Americans die from this point, you cannot say see it made us less safe. Because you are comparing it to the hypothetical going forward.

That said, now Iran knows there are consequences for their actions. If they kill more Americans, they won't be around much longer to continue to do so.

---

Corrik7 posted...

if he had lived. If a thousand Americans die from this point, you cannot say see it made us less safe. Because you are comparing it to the hypothetical going forward.

Doesnt this go both ways?
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Doesnt this go both ways?

Obviously.

---

Corrik what are your thoughts on Trump threatening cultural sites?
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik what are your thoughts on Trump threatening cultural sites?

What are your thoughts on liberals attacking Confederate cultural sites?

---

Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik what are your thoughts on Trump threatening cultural sites?

I am not sure how he intended it. Destroying history just to destroy history is pretty abysmal. That shit can't be replicated or undone. Probably some of the most heinous acts in history was the burning of libraries over the ages.

I can see the military merit of doing so, and I will not find it wrong to do so if they use such sites to harbor military contents or combatants. But, to do it out of pure malice in an age where demoralizing your enemy is not necessary seems cruel to me.

It is akin to launching severed heads of the dead of their nation over their walls. I would like to think we are above that.

---

Corrik7 posted...

I would like to think we are above that.

We arent
---

red sox 777 posted...

What are your thoughts on liberals attacking Confederate cultural sites?

Come at us, rebels
---

red sox 777 posted...

What are your thoughts on liberals attacking Confederate cultural sites?

This isn't really a fair comparison, but this is another example of attacking history which shouldn't happen. If you think the history is not very moral, then use it as a reason to remember to be better. You don't tear down the statues and monuments of your history because you feel better than them. They are the pillars that helped your nation get to where it is today. Whether through hardship they caused or evils they triumphed over. It all forms your nation today.

---

We have a literal Whiskey Rebellion monument in the town not too far from us. Literal traitors and rebels against the American government. It is still part of our history.

---

But to be serious, theres a difference between legitimate Confederate historical artifacts and statues erected in modern times to give anxiety to minorities
---

Hey remember when we toppled that big Saddam statue
---

I wonder if Trump knows that Persia's heyday of empire was before it adopted Islam. That might change his mind on the cultural sites thing.

---

Corrik7 posted...

This isn't really a fair comparison, but this is another example of attacking history which shouldn't happen. If you think the history is not very moral, then use it as a reason to remember to be better. You don't tear down the statues and monuments of your history because you feel better than them. They are the pillars that helped your nation get to where it is today. Whether through hardship they caused or evils they triumphed over. It all forms your nation today.

The problem is not only what Jakyl said, but also consider that most of the Confederate memorials are promoting a false history of heroic rebellion. It's erasing the true history by leaving them up, and even if you leave them up and "amend" the history of them on the plaque or whatever the statue itself is still glorification.

---

Jakyl25 posted...

Is there no action between standing idly by and assassination?

By this logic, a lot of countries have the right to attack us

if you're dealing with a major terrorist, honestly no. the best you can get is "capture and try" as an in-between, which could serve some diplomatic use, though does have certain obvious risks to it since he's alive. when they've been at it for over a decade... i wouldn't expect any reform done. and should he die in captivity, it's worse. unless there's value in having him as a defacto hostage, a terrorist is better dead than captive.

and honestly a lot of countries definitely would have a fair claim to attack the US.
thing is if they attack we've got a fair claim to hit back, which is what we did here. thing is we hit a lot harder so it ends up being a terrible idea to try.

Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik what are your thoughts on Trump threatening cultural sites?

i ain't corrik but is this related to trump's 52 target tweet? do we know what those may be or are we guessing?

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

The problem is not only what Jakyl said, but also consider that most of the Confederate memorials are promoting a false history of heroic rebellion. It's erasing the true history by leaving them up, and even if you leave them up and "amend" the history of them on the plaque or whatever the statue itself is still glorification.

Do you think monuments erected by the kings of Persia are any different in that regard? I bet you will not find a single monument describing the true history of the Persian defeat in Greece anywhere in Iran, unless maybe if Alexander had it erected long after the fact when he conquered Persia.

---

Wanglicious posted...

if you're dealing with a major terrorist, honestly no. the best you can get is "capture and try" as an in-between, which could serve some diplomatic use, though does have certain obvious risks to it since he's alive. when they've been at it for over a decade... i wouldn't expect any reform done. and should he die in captivity, it's worse. unless there's value in having him as a defacto hostage, a terrorist is better dead than captive.

and honestly a lot of countries definitely would have a fair claim to attack the US.
thing is if they attack we've got a fair claim to hit back, which is what we did here. thing is we hit a lot harder so it ends up being a terrible idea to try.

i ain't corrik but is this related to trump's 52 target tweet? do we know what those may be or are we guessing?

Given that targeting cultural sites is a war crime (so it seems quite unlikely that anyone at the Pentagon would actually draw up such a target list) and Trump surely doesnt know any of them I doubt such a list actually exists (though he might now be demanding that one be made).

---

Wanglicious posted...

i ain't corrik but is this related to trump's 52 target tweet? do we know what those may be or are we guessing?

We know they include sites of cultural importance
---

I also doubt Trump actually has a list. Leaving it vague and openended is also more terrifying.

---

Iran has now announced that they're resuming their nuclear program

I feel so much safer already!

---

red sox 777 posted...

I also doubt Trump actually has a list. Leaving it vague and openended is also more terrifying.

Its almost like hes unlawfully using intimidation in pursuit of political gains

Is there a word to encapsulate that?
---

Reg posted...

https://twitter.com/asharangappa_/status/1213914708782309379?s=21

What the fuck

---

If accurate, I hope all those citizens are financially compensated for this
---

Meanwhile in Venezuela...

https://twitter.com/julieturkewitz/status/1213912167650594820

To continue to claim the interim presidency, Mr. Guaid needed to be re-elected as head of the assembly on Sunday, according to analysts in and outside the country.

His victory was expected, as the opposition controls the legislative body, but at the last minute, members of the National Guard prevented Mr. Guaid from entering the assemblys white-walled building. Inside, a member of Mr. Maduros party, Hctor Agero, swore in Luis Parra as head of the assembly. There was no vote count.

Mr. Parra is a former member of the opposition who turned against Mr. Guaid after Mr. Guaid opened a corruption claim against him.

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

Meanwhile in Venezuela...

https://twitter.com/julieturkewitz/status/1213912167650594820

We should bomb them too

---

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1213919480574812160

Really smart to call your future response "disproportionate"

(not to mention claiming that a tweet is official notice to Congress of unspecified future action...)

---

If i shake my head any harder I'll snap my own neck

---

i've been out of the loop on US politics. can someone update me on the impeachment procedure?

last i heard is that the articles of impeachment would be referred to the senate in the "second week of january" - is that still a thing?

---

About the detention of American citizens- that's outrageous. If you're listening, this is one undeclared Republican who strongly disapproves.

On disproportionate responses - that's the point. If all our responses are proportional, Iran has nothing to fear. They can choose how far they want to escalate. With disproportionate responses, they will know fear.

---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

We should bomb them too

Maybe we should help the legitimate Venezuelan government clear out Maduro and his gang of usurpers.

---