Current Events > Sooo, what's the actual solution to homelessness?

(+) Yeah! (+)

JustMyOpinion posted...

Most homeless either have mental health issues, drug problems, or both. Guess we need to work on those.

i mean those are the biggest issues affecting the entire world as well

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give them housing with supportive services available

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Balrog0 posted...

give them housing with supportive services available

What do you do for a city like LA wheres not even room for normal people? Find the outskirts and build one of those high rise slums? Youre also going to have to most likely have on site 24/7 security

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JustMyOpinion posted...

Most homeless either have mental health issues, drug problems, or both. Guess we need to work on those.

How many bums do you think would actually seek help for any of those issues?

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On average, it took our homeless team 17 contacts for a homeless person to accept a resource. That doesnt specify entering and immediately leaving the place or if they stayed

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darkprince45 posted...

What do you do for a city like LA wheres not even room for normal people? Find the outskirts and build one of those high rise slums? Youre also going to have to most likely have on site 24/7 security

you guys are already doing this on a limited basis, although ultimately to solve your housing issues requires more than just addressing homelessness

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hpb20161014.734003/full/

Medicaid programs might also gain from having beneficiaries in supportive housing. Supportive housing might allow individuals to transition from more expensive institutional settings such as inpatient psychiatric facilities into community housing and might allow individuals to obtain more consistent treatment of chronic conditions in primary care settings so that they could reduce their number of emergency department visits and inpatient hospitalizations. For example, researchers have found that patients with housing have shorter hospital stays than homeless patients and that homeless patients have high readmission rates following an inpatient stay, with 70 percent of hospitalizations resulting in either another inpatient admission, observation status stay, or emergency department visit within thirty days of hospital discharge. A study of supportive housing in Los Angeles found that spending across public agencies in the county was 79 percent lower for residents with supportive housing than for homeless people. The majority of those savings came from reductions in spending on health care services, including a 91 percent reduction in average spending per month per person on certain inpatient hospitalizations and an 89 percent reduction in spending on emergency department services for individuals in supportive housing compared to spending for homeless individuals.


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Pet peeve of mine:

Person 1: How do we fix problem X?
Person 2: Solution Y
Person 3: Solution Y is imperfect because of A, B, and C so it shouldn't be done

We have to remember we don't need the perfect answer to make things better, and waiting for the perfect answer is likely to make things worse. Like most things in life you try a strategy, keep the parts that worked iterate on the parts that didn't.

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Here's more on that if you're interested

https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/46721/411546-The-Skid-Row-Collaborative--.PDF

probably one issue with getting them to accept resources is that the resources you're giving them don't start with a roof over their head and a respect for their individual autonomy

you may or may not know this but various supportive services are ultimately kind of useless if you're going to go right back to sleeping on the street

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Spooking posted...

I remember LA country being given around 500 million dollars for housing the homeless and most of that money went to administrative cost.

And that is horrible, people behind that waste need to be fired if not arrested.

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joe40001 posted...

And that is horrible, people behind that waste need to be fired if not arrested.

how about

[citation needed]

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REMercsChamp posted...

There isn't one. Just like there isn't a solution to crime. No matter what you or anyone does, there will always be crime, homelessness etc

This is my thoughts on a lot of things these days as well. I used to be hopeful and think there was a solution for anything (albeit maybe an extremely difficult one). It doesn't feel like that to me anymore. If you gave every homeless person one million dollars right now to do whatever they wanted with it, how many do you think would actually turn their lives around and make something out of it? Maybe like 5-10%?

I think some people are just born broken, or they end up that way from a traumatic childhood or whatever.. and if you're broken, you're broken. That's about all there is to it. There's a lot more "dead weight" people in our society than any of us would care to admit or would like to think about. We want to believe that we can help everyone with the right approach and available resources, but it's not realistic. Not everyone can be a functional human being and contribute to society, and especially now in modern times when how we're living is getting further and further from how we ought to be living.

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Ultima Dragon posted...

If you gave every homeless person one million dollars right now to do whatever they wanted with it, how many do you think would actually turn their lives around and make something out of it? Maybe like 5-10%?

probably less

Ultima Dragon posted...

I think some people are just born broken, or they end up that way from a traumatic childhood or whatever.. and if you're broken, you're broken. That's about all there is to it. There's a lot more "dead weight" people in our society that any of us would care to admit or would like to think about.

that's also probably true

Ultima Dragon posted...

We want to believe that we can help everyone with the right approach and available resources, but it's not realistic.

not literally everyone, just many more than we currently do

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Balrog0 posted...

Here's more on that if you're interested

https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/46721/411546-The-Skid-Row-Collaborative--.PDF

probably one issue with getting them to accept resources is that the resources you're giving them don't start with a roof over their head and a respect for their individual autonomy

you may or may not know this but various supportive services are ultimately kind of useless if you're going to go right back to sleeping on the street

Yes we do. We offer some of the best resources in the entire country. 5 empty shelters, job resource, housing resource, flights back home if they need it. They also opened a state of the art facility for homeless drug users. They each get assigned a doctor and case worker. After they get clean they can live inside of the apartment side, live rent free and then get help on acquiring IDs, getting a job or school, as well as day to day tasks. Most of the run away after a day. The several hundred there love it and changed though

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joe40001 posted...

Pet peeve of mine:

Person 1: How do we fix problem X?
Person 2: Solution Y
Person 3: Solution Y is imperfect because of A, B, and C so it shouldn't be done

We have to remember we don't need the perfect answer to make things better, and waiting for the perfect answer is likely to make things worse. Like most things in life you try a strategy, keep the parts that worked iterate on the parts that didn't.

Agreed, I hate that defeatist attitude. Weve seen strategies that have helped with homelessness. Lets continue using those and work out any kinks we see as we go along.

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darkprince45 posted...

Yes we do. We offer some of the best resources in the entire country. 5 empty shelters, job resource, housing resource, flights back home if they need it. They also opened a state of the art facility for homeless drug users. They each get a assigned a doctor and case worker. After they get clean they can live inside of the apartment side, live rent free and then get help on acquiring IDs, getting a job or school, as well as day to day tasks

yeah, exactly

you're saying they can stay in homeless shelters (no respect for their autonomy) or after they get clean they can stay some where

you're not starting by offering them a roof and respect for their individual autonomy

I get that you might not want to start there and have reasons not to do that, but I'm explaining to you that that is what is required to actually address the issue.

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Balrog0 posted...

yeah, exactly

you're saying they can stay in homeless shelters (no respect for their autonomy) or after they get clean they can stay some where

you're not starting by offering them a roof and respect for their individual autonomy

I get that you might not want to start there and have reasons not to do that, but I'm explaining to you that that is what is required to actually address the issue.

youre also being a little ridiculous. Normal people arent offered anything aside from the really poor. But to help the homeless from basically ruining society we need to now jump through hoops A, B ,C. I agree, they should be treated with respect. But theres nothing shameful about living temporarily in a shelter as opposed to being dirty in a tunnel filled poop and needles?

especially when most shelter allow pets and property

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darkprince45 posted...

youre also being a little ridiculous.

I'm being honest and answering your question.

darkprince45 posted...

Normal people arent offered anything aside from the really poor

'Normal' people get tons of benefits of government spending.

darkprince45 posted...

But to help the homeless from basically ruining society we need to now jump through hoops A, B ,C.

actually, I'm saying that there should be less bureaucracy and paternalism, so less hoops to jump through. Kind of weird for you to frame my argument that they shouldn't need to go through counseling and get clean before you give them an apartment as some how more burdensome than the reverse

darkprince45 posted...

I agree, they should be treated with respect. But theres nothing shameful about living temporarily in a shelter as opposed to being dirty in a tunnel filled poop and needles?

How would you know?

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Balrog0 posted...

How would you know?

Because I literally spend the morning of every shift cleaning out tunnels

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Balrog0 posted...

'Normal' people get tons of benefits of government spending

??

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From my experience, most shelters do not let you have pets. Some of the sheltes also require you to swap out clothes to avoid bed bug infestations, so you don't usually get to keep much of your things.

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darkprince45 posted...

Because I literally spend the morning of every shift cleaning out tunnels

How much time have you spent living in them vs living in a homeless shelter? Do you imagine that many of the homeless who refuse shelter might live some where more clean than a poop tunnel?

Why did you ask a question when you're just going to argue about it? You're not even asking follow up questions, you're just saying that homeless people should make better decisions based on what your opinion of a good decision is. I honestly don't think you're really interested in the problem

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Musourenka posted...

From my experience, most shelters do not let you have pets. Some of the sheltes also require you to swap out clothes to avoid bed bug infestations, so you don't usually get to keep much of your things.

How about just the fact that most adults don't want to be treated like children? It's really not rocket science. Homeless people are still people. Most of us also wouldn't be okay with having to deal with curfews and restrictive noise ordinances -- not to mention having to live in a barracks-style room full of other people -- just to have a place to sleep. A home and a shelter aren't remotely the same thing.

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Like, based on what you feel right now about homeless people, would you want to sleep in a room full of homeless people? I seriously doubt it. Now imagine you don't have a home. Are you now super enthused about it?

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I always love topics like this, which instantly expose people who have likely never spoken to a single homeless person in their life and lives behind their computer monitor.

Giving homeless people "affordable homes", "free mental health programs", etc is not the solution. These people will destroy the homes for junkyard pennies, and will only show up to the mental programs for however long they have to to get whatever benefits they provide.

Some people are just too far gone for help. It's a sad reality, but not all of them will change for the better.

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Garreyn posted...

I always love topics like this, which instantly expose people who have likely never spoken to a single homeless person in their life and lives behind their computer monitor.

I was homeless for almost a decade, what's your experience with it?

Garreyn posted...

Giving homeless people "affordable homes", "free mental health programs", etc is not the solution.

The evidence isn't on your side. What are you basing this on?


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Balrog0 posted...

How about just the fact that most adults don't want to be treated like children? It's really not rocket science. Homeless people are still people. Most of us also wouldn't be okay with having to deal with curfews and restrictive noise ordinances -- not to mention having to live in a barracks-style room full of other people -- just to have a place to sleep. A home and a shelter aren't remotely the same thing.

Yes, that's a much better point than what I was making.

The point of shelter should be as a temporary fix to get people into actual housing and not just as a place to "store" homeless people.

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Garreyn posted...

I always love topics like this, which instantly expose people who have likely never spoken to a single homeless person in their life and lives behind their computer monitor.

Giving homeless people "affordable homes", "free mental health programs", etc is not the solution. These people will destroy the homes for junkyard pennies, and will only show up to the mental programs for however long they have to to get whatever benefits they provide.

Some people are just too far gone for help. It's a sad reality, but not all of them will change for the better.

"Miserable mentally ill people don't get better overnight, therefore they are lost causes all of them"

Look, dealing with certain people is going to be rough, but that far from proof they are lost causes. I've never been homeless (technically I was for like 3 days but I had a car so that doesn't count) but I have been profoundly depressed for like 10 years, and I know mental illness.

If you get warped beliefs of reality you have to work hard over time to change them. It's like deprogramming somebody from a cult. A homeless person who thinks the world is against them (or any other delusion) is not going to be quickly liberated from that mindset, but that doesn't mean they are incapable.

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There is a solution but Id likely be moderated if I said what it is.

Obviously fix the ballooning housing market and stagnating wages would go a long way to fixing homelessness. It's not to put them on a bus and ship them somewhere else or stuff them into concentration camps.

I live in Glendale and at my church, we volunteer to house the homeless and a lot of those that come are actually employed at a job. They just can't afford the rediculous housing costs.

Phewfus posted...

They just can't afford the rediculous housing costs.

agreed. though 10 years ago the problem wasn't even there. just started creeping along after year 6 up to the present.

used to pay 600$ rent.
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LRodC posted...

There is a solution but Id likely be moderated if I said what it is.

I'll say it for you since I have a ton of Karma, socialism, will happen when we elect AOC as president.

bknight posted...

we elect AOC as president.

ideals are too extreme (one side of the spectrum).
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you dudes think that most of the homeless do have mental health issues?

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JebronLames posted...

you dudes think that most of the homeless do have mental health issues?

No, most homeless are normal people.

JebronLames posted...

you dudes think that most of the homeless do have mental health issues?

Most of the ones that are harder to help do

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Balrog0 posted...

How would you know?

Yeah, this. As someone whos experienced it, a lot of the state systems currently in place to help the homeless are dog shit on the receiving end, and Id argue even detrimental. It was better to avoid them.

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Umm hope people are different? You have to realize some** not all** dont want anything different.

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SSMajinVegeta2 posted...

Umm hope people are different? You have to realize some** not all** dont want anything different.

Ive heard this in real life from onlookers when I was trying to help a homeless person. Seems like its just something people say so they can ignore the problem, idk.

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I live in a smaller city where there is sufficient shelter space and food provision to support our relatively low homeless population. However, they are still a major problem here because they refuse to utilize the provided services in favor of using drugs. I don't know what the solution is here.

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Silver Bearings posted...

I live in a smaller city where there is sufficient shelter space and food provision to support our relatively low homeless population. However, they are still a major problem here because they refuse to utilize the provided services in favor of using drugs. I don't know what the solution is here.

Stopping the inhumane War on Drugs and the way we penalize and stigmatize those seeking to explore their own human consciousness would be a good step.

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Put the young ones in the military

Shablagoo posted...

Stopping the inhumane War on Drugs and the way we penalize and stigmatize those seeking to explore their own human consciousness would be a good step.

So legalizing heroin is the answer?

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Rexdragon125 posted...

Build affordable homes

Every builder wants to make hundreds of thousands of dollars on homes

Um, yea? That's kinds the point. Why wouldnt they charge the regular rate in their area to turn a profit?

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Silver Bearings posted...

I live in a smaller city where there is sufficient shelter space and food provision to support our relatively low homeless population. However, they are still a major problem here because they refuse to utilize the provided services in favor of using drugs. I don't know what the solution is here.

the solution is letting them be housed even if they are doing drugs

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Silver Bearings posted...

So legalizing heroin is the answer?

legalizing any drug makes it significantly easier for addicts to get help, in terms of quitting and in terms of ensuring their safety while they're still addicted

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Balrog0 posted...

the solution is letting them be housed even if they are doing drugs

They are allowed in the housing, but they just can't actually shoot up in the housing.

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I know a way to help stop homelessness, just stop wasting funds on them when they get sick. They get too sick too often and we have to save them for some reason.... just let them perish.

The biggest hurdle to ending homelessness is the mindset that people have to "earn" housing. A lot of services (including faith-based projects and transitional housing) are set with the goal of getting people "ready" for housing rather than providing the housing while connecting them to services.

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Silver Bearings posted...

They are allowed in the housing, but they just can't actually shoot up in the housing.

That's the issue.

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