Current Events > Sooo, what's the actual solution to homelessness?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Prismsblade posted...

Um, yea? That's kinds the point. Why wouldnt they charge the regular rate in their area to turn a profit?

housing is a basic human need. profiting from that is exploitative and people should be prevented from doing so.

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averagejoel posted...

housing is a basic human need. profiting from that is exploitative and people should be prevented from doing so.

Ive realized lately that capitalists have complete dissonance when it comes to their idea that profit > everything else.

I had one recently say to me, wealth is infinite, resources are not, as if wealth will have any meaning when the resources are all wasted.

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I'm sure we could siphon a few dozen bombs' worth of money to preserve life.

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The23rdMagus posted...

I'm sure we could siphon a few dozen bombs' worth of money to preserve life.

you don't even need to do something that controversial, you realize the savings in state and local budgets if you pursue a housing first policy because it helps reduce spending on heath care and policing

the issue is just 1) finding the public will politically and then 2) creating the funding stream/mechanisms between those different agencies to actually realize the savings

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cardoor123 posted...

I know a way to help stop homelessness, just stop wasting funds on them when they get sick. They get too sick too often and we have to save them for some reason.... just let them perish.

Wow. And you pretend to be a human being. This topic is full of abject blatant hatred towards the homeless. We have people saying to let them die, conscript them to military service, deport them, arrest them, involuntarily commit them. I think people are truly forgetting that we're talking about human beings and not bacteria or rats here.

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EzeDoesIt posted...

Ive realized lately that capitalists have complete dissonance when it comes to their idea that profit > everything else.

I had one recently say to me, wealth is infinite, resources are not, as if wealth will have any meaning when the resources are all wasted.

that reminds me of a conversation I had on here with questionmarktarius. once I realized it wasn't going anywhere productive I just asked something along the lines of "do you agree that people are more important than money?" and he just avoided the question in his response

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Iran posted...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/04/17/the-surprisingly-simple-way-utah-solved-chronic-homelessness-and-saved-millions/

That primarily helps homeless families, the disabled, and children, the people who want to be homed. You still have the vast % of people who are legit insane and choose to be homeless or enjoy being homeless.
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Hop103 posted...

That primarily helps homeless families, the disabled, and children, the people who want to be homed. You still have the vast % of people who are legit insane and choose to be homeless or enjoy being homeless.

you're totally incorrect and have it exactly backwards with respect to who the program was intended for

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So the solution is to build more projects and legalize drugs

So basically create Carter's from 'New Jack City' but with government money.

I can totally see that working

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Hop103 posted...

That primarily helps homeless families, the disabled, and children, the people who want to be homed. You still have the vast % of people who are legit insane and choose to be homeless or enjoy being homeless.

the vast percent? you think if most were given free housing they wouldn't choose that?

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from the article

The nuts and bolts: First the state identified the homeless that experts would consider chronically homeless. That designation means they have a disabling condition and have been homeless for longer than a year, or four different times in the last three years. Among the many subgroups of the homeless community such as homeless families or homeless children the chronically homeless are both the most difficult to reabsorb into society and use the most public resources. They wind up in jail more often. Theyre hospitalized more often. And they frequent shelters the most. In all, before instituting Housing First, Utah was spending on average $20,000 on each chronically homeless person.

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averagejoel posted...

that reminds me of a conversation I had on here with questionmarktarius. once I realized it wasn't going anywhere productive I just asked something along the lines of "do you agree that people are more important than money?" and he just avoided the question in his response

lmao

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yemmy posted...

So the solution is to build more projects and legalize drugs

So basically create Carter's from 'New Jack City' but with government money.

I can totally see that working

let's see, we can look at the empirical literature on programs designed to address homeless

or we can rely on 1990s chris rock movies

wonder which we should use to guide public policy, sure is a tough one

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averagejoel posted...

housing is a basic human need. profiting from that is exploitative and people should be prevented from doing so.

Housing is a basic human need for EVERYONE though, not just the poor, and there arent enough to go around in certain areas sadly. It's simple supply and demand, economics 101.

So if you cant compete against other people's income for housing your only option then is to simply leave.

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JebronLames posted...

the vast percent? you think if most were given free housing they wouldn't choose that?

Unfortunately, that's not the case and it's not just a US thing. Japan for example has homeless people who often work regular jobs.
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legendary_zell posted...

Wow. And you pretend to be a human being. This topic is full of abject blatant hatred towards the homeless. We have people saying to let them die, conscript them to military service, deport them, arrest them, involuntarily commit them. I think people are truly forgetting that we're talking about human beings and not bacteria or rats here.

This is the main problem with society. People care way too much about strangers. Strangers are in the same tier as bacteria or rats for me, I simply don't give a fuck about them. Like why does it matter if they're human?

Like why would you care if I was having an heart attack and dying? You shouldn't, I know I wouldn't care if you were dying. You simply add no value to my life, and likewise, I (and these homeless people as a matter of fact) have no importance to you, it's fucking dumb to waste your time and energy on these people.

It's that simple.

Why do people even come to a discussion forum if the drive behind their worldview is apathy and rejection of altruism, and the only thing theyll ever end up saying is lol who cares.

Like we dont need your say-nothing posts, they add nothing to the conversation.

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Prismsblade posted...

Housing is a basic human need for EVERYONE though, not just the poor, and there arent enough to go around in certain areas sadly. It's simple supply and demand, economics 101.

this is not true in most areas. in a lot of cases it's just more profitable to keep apartments empty, or to rent them out as airbnb, than it is to lower the monthly rent.

but now that you mention it, I do not believe that anyone should have to pay for housing. thank you for bringing that up.

So if you cant compete against other people's income for housing your only option then is to simply leave.

this is why we need to prevent people from treating housing as a means to make money

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Shablagoo posted...

Why do people even come to a discussion forum if the drive behind their worldview is apathy and rejection of altruism, and the only thing theyll ever end up saying is lol who cares.

Like we dont need your say-nothing posts, they add nothing to the conversation.

their voice is in line with the dominant voice in society, and anyone disagreeing with the prevailing narrative makes them uncomfortable

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Balrog0 posted...

or we can rely on 1990s chris rock movies

I mean if you want to come to Memphis I'll show you some section 8 neighborhoods where the police ignore the drug dealers.

You've probably never even seen shit like that even on TV. If you did you wouldn't think that throwing money at our drug and homeless problems are valid solutions

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averagejoel posted...

this is not true in most areas. in a lot of cases it's just more profitable to keep apartments empty, or to rent them out as airbnb, than it is to lower the monthly rent.

Alot of cases is not most and idk why you even mentioned airbnbs, their usually for visitors or vacation folk.

averagejoel posted...

this is why we need to prevent people from treating housing as a means to make money

If theres no profit then people will simply stop buying houses to fix up and rent out, and or simply stop renting them out entirely. F*****over even more people. Genuis.


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yemmy posted...

I mean if you want to come to Memphis I'll show you some section 8 neighborhoods where the police ignore the drug dealers.

I live in Little Rock, dude, our violent crime index is higher than yours

(apparently that's not true for the most recent year of data, though it's pretty close!)

yemmy posted...

You've probably never even seen shit like that even on TV. If you did you wouldn't think that throwing money at our drug and homeless problems are valid solutions

and again, I was homeless for a decade as a child.

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Prismsblade posted...

Alot of cases is not most and idk why you even mentioned airbnbs, their usually for visitors or vacation folk.

it's still enough to significantly reduce the available housing market and drive up prices with artificial scarcity

If theres no profit then people will simply stop buying houses to fix up and rent out, and or simply stop renting them out entirely. F*****over even more people. Genuis.

you're not even trying lol

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America has more empty homes than homeless people.

You do the math.

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darkprince45 posted...

Sites like Reddit will crucify you for saying anything negative about them or their situations

how do you help the community that an overwhelmingly majority do not want help. Abuse drugs, violent and sexual crimes are committed constantly, suffer mental issues. and have huge sanitation issues? I worked with a police team for a bit that was just for helping them(no arresting or citations).The statistics just leave you disappointed. They dont want help and are super violent.

I was reading a Reddit thread just now, they were talking shit about the citizens of LA being horrible people for not wanting to have needle/excrement sidewalks in front of their residence

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cardoor123 posted...

This is the main problem with society. People care way too much about strangers.

We'd all still be living in caves if we all thought like you.

Cookies!

cardoor123 posted...

This is the main problem with society. People care way too much about strangers. Strangers are in the same tier as bacteria or rats for me, I simply don't give a fuck about them. Like why does it matter if they're human?

Like why would you care if I was having an heart attack and dying? You shouldn't, I know I wouldn't care if you were dying. You simply add no value to my life, and likewise, I (and these homeless people as a matter of fact) have no importance to you, it's fucking dumb to waste your time and energy on these people.

It's that simple.

The Conservative Mindset, ladies and gentlemen!

Truly these people need to be running society and in charge of everyone's lives. That's right, the people with absolutely no empathy for other human beings? They're the only ones truly fit to decide who lives and who dies. Healthcare, economics, housing, poverty, disease, war? It's best left to the people who could not give less of a shit if they destroy millions of lives.

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bIuerain posted...

The Conservative Mindset, ladies and gentlemen!

Truly these people need to be running society and in charge of everyone's lives. That's right, the people with absolutely no empathy for other human beings? They're the only ones truly fit to decide who lives and who dies. Healthcare, economics, housing, poverty, disease, war? It's best left to the people who could not give less of a shit if they destroy millions of lives.

Seriously. These people tell us exactly what sort of sickly, eldritch horrors they are and yet keep getting re-elected somehow lol.

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EzeDoesIt posted...

Seriously. These people tell us exactly what sort of sickly, eldritch horrors they are and yet keep getting re-elected somehow lol.

It's like hey, if you truly don't give a shit about other human beings, more power to you. But you probably shouldn't be in charge of anything, ever. If all you're after is "what's worst for everybody", then you should probably just keep to yourself m8 and not be deciding if we invade another middle-eastern country.

But alas, these people run shit.

But I gotta say I do appreciate how refreshingly honest they are when they're anonymous online. None of the pretenses about how "actually it's really logical for us to destroy everyone's healthcare and also the economy."

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ChrisTaka posted...

That article is 5+ years old ...

Here's a followup: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-homelessness-housing/once-a-national-model-utah-struggles-with-homelessness-idUSKCN1P41EQ

Basically, when they stopped giving homes to the homeless they experienced a resurgence in homelessness: "Once lauded as a leader among U.S. cities struggling to relieve homelessness, the number of people sleeping rough in Utahs capital has spiked in the past two years, as funding for its groundbreaking housing program dried up."

cardoor123 posted...

This is the main problem with society. People care way too much about strangers. Strangers are in the same tier as bacteria or rats for me, I simply don't give a fuck about them. Like why does it matter if they're human?

Like why would you care if I was having an heart attack and dying? You shouldn't, I know I wouldn't care if you were dying. You simply add no value to my life, and likewise, I (and these homeless people as a matter of fact) have no importance to you, it's fucking dumb to waste your time and energy on these people.

It's that simple.

Actually, it's to my overall benefit to care about the health and welfare of strangers like you. If you are not healthy, you are creating a drain on medial resources that might impact me or my family. If you and your family are unable to pay for your healthcare, you are creating a drain on my tax revenues because we still end up paying for your healthcare. If you die and your family is unable to pay for your funeral, you create a further drain on my tax revenues because we end up paying for the handling of your remains.

Conversely, if you are healthy and productive, you are contributing taxes and helping to share the burden of paying for essential community-funded things that I use every day like roads and utilities, as well as things that I really want to be available and functioning when I need them like Police, Fire Departments, and other emergency services.

averagejoel posted...

it's still enough to significantly reduce the available housing market and drive up prices with artificial scarcity

Source? That seems alot less profitably in the long run then just charging the price you want for a house or apartment.

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Again someone comes in with their played-out, disgusting profits > humanity routine. What has this world come to, truly?

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Shablagoo posted...

Again someone comes in with their played-out, disgusting profits > humanity routine. What has this world come to, truly?

That we as normal people are barely surviving. Im already taxed to fucking death. Yet, were deemed bad people because we dont to pay anymore

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darkprince45 posted...

That we as normal people are barely surviving. Im already taxed to fucking death. Yet, were deemed bad people because we dont to pay anymore

What do you suggest then?

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darkprince45 posted...

That we as normal people are barely surviving. Im already taxed to fucking death. Yet, were deemed bad people because we dont to pay anymore

Housing costs less than all the various alternatives here.
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The only solution is putting money it. Its just one of those things you cant escape. It just sucks tho.My plan would be to legalize all drug use. And then like a movie world. Build giant communities a decent length away from normal metro areas. There, they have housing, onsite medical, rehab,. Mental services, jobs, education, and security on site. And thats your option. Being homeless out in the cities is an instant bring you back there. Its not permanent, but if someone is mentally unstable to go back into civilized humanity, then they can live there. If not the goal is to bring them in, churn them out back into society. Then one day back in society they will be taxed a little more for using a ton of money for this project

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Harass them and "encourage" them to stay on the side of town with the other "undesirables" is the current formula.

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darkprince45 posted...

My plan would be to legalize all drug use

For what purpose?

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REMercsChamp posted...

For what purpose?

A lot of reasons that dont involve the homeless. But basically they always have drugs. In this case, instead of arresting them for drugs they can be shipped off to my community

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Intangible posted...

Harass them and "encourage" them to stay on the side of town with the other "undesirables" is the current formula.

My plan is not just move them under a
bridge but an actual designed community that has benefits

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darkprince45 posted...

Build giant communities a decent length away from normal metro areas. There, they have housing, onsite medical, rehab,. Mental services, jobs, education, and security on site. And thats your option. Being homeless out in the cities is an instant bring you back there. Its not permanent, but if someone is mentally unstable to go back into civilized humanity, then they can live there.

We could just have all benefits you describe in our cities, instead of special brave new worlds for the homeless
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Antifar posted...

We could just have all benefits you describe in our cities, instead of special brave new worlds for the homeless

The idea is to keep them away from being disruptive and harassing normal citizens until they readjust

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The homeless should just buy a house

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Irony posted...

The homeless should just buy a house

it's not that simple.... gotta get a loan if want a house. end up paying the loan off for 30 years before out in the clear. and there's countless things that could happen that would ruin the credit forever.

plus bad credit discourages banks from lending because the person is a liability.
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kingdrake2 posted...

it's not that simple.... gotta get a loan if want a house. end up paying the loan off for 30 years before out in the clear. and there's countless things that could happen that would ruin the credit forever.

plus bad credit discourages banks from lending because the person is a liability.

I wasn't being serious

https://youtu.be/JWAxzgCYxpc

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Get rid of the Federal reserve and stop the constant borrowing where they never actually pay the money back. They just raise taxes and borrow more which creates inflation which makes the cost of things go up and also the cost of living. New York and California borrow the most and oddly enough cost the most to live in.

It's why people live in closets in San Francisco. Constant borrowing and the fed and other money lending organizations is an issue that causes so many of our actual problems but isn't spoken about much at all.

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darkprince45 posted...

Then one day back in society they will be taxed a little more for using a ton of money for this project

Fuck that shit

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Balrog0 posted...

Fuck that shit

Why the fuck not? Its not gonna be cheap at all. I cant fuck that shit to my taxes

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darkprince45 posted...

Why the fuck not? Its not gonna be cheap at all. I cant fuck that shit to my taxes

because you're forced resettlement plan is wasteful with taxpayer dollars that could be saved if you just implemented the housing first + supportive services model that saves public money

Did you even read the things I shared with you about what your very own city's experience with it was?

Its legitimately depressing that a cop cares enough about this to complain about homeless people anonymously on ce but doesn't care enough to actually engage with the responses to his supposed question. If the problem is that you can't understand it for some reason. please let me know. You could be a powerful force for good in the world if you put some effort into it.

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