Poll of the Day > Would you rather have real warp zones or checkpoints?

(+) Yeah! (+)

They're two popular video game mechanics, but which would you prefer?

1) Warp Zones
-Towns would connect to nearest city as a hub and, from there, those cities would connect to major cities. Those major cities would connect to national hubs where people could travel between nations. The zones themselves would be available to all citizens, although normal screening would take place for international travel and there'd likely be verification in place for national travel.

(And the warp itself would effectively open a portal between the two spaces. Each area connected by a gate would have the gate almost continuously open, although it can be closed by the operator.)

2) Checkpoints
-If a person died via certain unnatural means (accident, violence, etc), their body would be restored at the last checkpoint they visited with a default set of clothes. Their age and general condition would be the same as at the time of their death, although any wounds, etc, inflicted immediately prior to (or connected to) the death would be healed. Again, this would be available to all persons and the government would likely oversee the checkpoints themselves and file incident reports. The checkpoints themselves would be at least one per town/city, usually housed within a government building.
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Warp Zones. Checkpoints is just pissing in the face of natural selection.

warp zones mean you skip part of the game on that playthrough. not really beating the game that way
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

warp zones mean you skip part of the game on that playthrough. not really beating the game that way

In this case, it's just fast-travel. (I guess even in something like SMB it's also still fast travel, although it gets you closer to the end goal.)
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Kind of depends. Checkpoints would be fantastic if they worked in the way where you only reset at the point you were at when you checkpointed (sort of like save points, how Halo handled checkpoints, or the Groundhog Day sort of "revival/reset" to a specific point), as opposed to functioning more as a means of direct revival (a la Borderlands or Dark Souls).

In other words, if I "checkpoint" yesterday, and then tomorrow I say or do something phenomenally stupid that absolutely ruins my job or a relationship or whatever, I can always shoot myself in the head and wake up before I did that incredibly stupid thing. And then use my foresight (which is really hindsight) to learn from my mistakes and do better. Though that would kind of render the entire concept of gambling/sports betting obsolete.

The way you're describing them really aren't "checkpoints" per se as much as they are fast revives, where you come back to life somewhere else but nothing else changes. I'd actually kind of frown on that (and it could become existential horror if you ever reach a point where someone desperately WANTS to die but can't turn respawning off).

Not to mention that there's a sort of body horror element involved in dying but being able to remember everything that happened, meaning you also have the experience of pain and suffering. Someone who dies a truly horrific death but comes back afterwards is probably going to need tons of therapy, and would be on par with people who have traumatic torture or PTSD issues. There are absolutely situations where death is more of a blessing than a curse, and this would completely negate that. Worse, it would introduce entirely new and complex questions of morality - can people opt out? If so, should they be allowed to? If so, should friends, relatives, and loved ones have a moral right to "rez without permission"? If someone suicides to avoid debt, should creditors have the right to rez with intent to force payment? If someone is injured but not killed, and is left in a coma, would it be justified to directly kill them to force respawn? For that matter, would deliberate respawns become the standard treatment for any and all injury? If I have terminal cancer, and am in the final stages, do I respawn every time I die from it, trapping me in an endless loop of the most painful and debilitating stage of my disease, or do I automatically default to a "perfect" blueprint saved once and never updated? If the latter, couldn't people theoretically remain forever young simply by killing themselves whenever they get old? And if so, how do we deal with concepts of overpopulation? Do we restrict breeding entirely because no one ever dies to make room for new lives? Do we have to establish some sort of strict quota system, where one parent literally has to suicide to allow a child to be born?

On top of which, the moment we have the ability to produce perfect "clones" with physical and mental traits copied to the most minute detail, what's to stop the idea of creating illegal clones for slavery purposes? If I have enough money and want to fuck a celebrity, can I simply pay to have a copy of them made for me that I can bundle off to my creepy rape basement? Or what if someone with serial killer tendencies wants to order copies of famous people (or their neighbors) to murder for the vicarious thrill? WOULD said clones have any rights? And regardless of "copy rights" (pun not intended), how does all of this completely change laws involving murder and physical abuse? A serial killer stops being a monster and almost becomes more of an inconvenience if everyone he kills pops back 20 minutes later. Do we still punish the intent, or the result?
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Then you also get into the same philosophical questions that come into play when people discuss teleporting technology that works like a Star Trek transporter (for both checkpoints/respawn AND fast travel/warp points). If the technology glitches and creates a respawn copy while the original is still alive, how do you determine which is the "real" person, and what sort of right to exist would either the copy or the original possess? And is the "copy" even YOU in any meaningful sense, or an entirely new person created based on your template, but the you that was YOU was still dead and gone forever the moment you died the first time? Do souls exist, and can they transmigrate from body to body, or does every copy wind up being some sort of hollow soulless shell that will never truly be as complete as the original was?

I'd personally be well up for warp points if they actually involved travel through some sort of well-understood hyperspace reality (and not some "Oops, we didn't realize it was actually a hell dimension" sort of bullshit) where continuity of existence is maintained (so the same ME that goes in is the same ME that comes out, not a copy reconstructed on the subatomic level at the destination point).

But I'd avoid deconstruction/reconstruction teleportation like the plague, because I tend to be of the mindset that personal awareness is a function of existing framework, which means even a perfect copy of me with every single memory, personality trait, and habit still isn't ME. The real me dies the moment the teleporter takes me apart for the first time, and some other guy wearing my face and thinking my thoughts appears on the other end to take over my life.

I sort of feel the same way about respawning. If we're talking metaphysical rewinding of the universe where it's technically the same ME waking up in the past and the future hasn't technically happened yet, that would be awesome if I had some degree of control over it and could turn it off if I wanted to (as opposed to being trapped in a Groundhog Day loop or something like Edge of Tomorrow/Live Die Repeat). But if all you're doing is digitally reconstructing my body at a designated respawn point whenever I die then I feel like the real ME is still laying dead in a puddle of his own blood somewhere and all you're really doing is spooling up a copy to take my place.
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Why is the checkpoint limited to twice only? That makes it lame.

It also makes it lame that you're having them be controlled by people.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

In other words, if I "checkpoint" yesterday, and then tomorrow I say or do something phenomenally stupid that absolutely ruins my job or a relationship or whatever, I can always shoot myself in the head and wake up before I did that incredibly stupid thing. And then use my foresight (which is really hindsight) to learn from my mistakes and do better. Though that would kind of render the entire concept of gambling/sports betting obsolete.

The issue there is that everybody would have access to it so I deliberately limited its scope since otherwise you'd have an unlimited number of stacked alternate outcomes influencing other stacks of alternate outcomes.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

The way you're describing them really aren't "checkpoints" per se as much as they are fast revives, where you come back to life somewhere else but nothing else changes. I'd actually kind of frown on that (and it could become existential horror if you ever reach a point where someone desperately WANTS to die but can't turn respawning off).

It's capped at two respawns period, so not really an issue

ParanoidObsessive posted...

For that matter, would deliberate respawns become the standard treatment for any and all injury? If I have terminal cancer, and am in the final stages, do I respawn every time I die from it, trapping me in an endless loop of the most painful and debilitating stage of my disease, or do I automatically default to a "perfect" blueprint saved once and never updated?

That's an example of a natural death so you wouldn't get out of it regardless. As for treating injury or other pains, they would need to kill themselves shortly after suffering those other pains otherwise they just reset with the pain. Plus it's capped at two so fixing a broken arm by jumping off a cliff would be something of a waste.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

On top of which, the moment we have the ability to produce perfect "clones" with physical and mental traits copied to the most minute detail, what's to stop the idea of creating illegal clones for slavery purposes?

Where are these clones coming from?

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Then you also get into the same philosophical questions that come into play when people discuss teleporting technology that works like a Star Trek transporter

That's explicitly not the technology used here.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

I'd personally be well up for warp points if they actually involved travel through some sort of well-understood hyperspace reality (and not some "Oops, we didn't realize it was actually a hell dimension" sort of bullshit) where continuity of existence is maintained (so the same ME that goes in is the same ME that comes out, not a copy reconstructed on the subatomic level at the destination point).

Which is the technology I'm talking about.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

Why is the checkpoint limited to twice only? That makes it lame.

Because otherwise everybody picks the checkpoint.

AllstarSniper32 posted...

It also makes it lame that you're having them be controlled by people.

If somebody commits a crime and dies in the act to escape, they'd catch them at the checkpoint (doubly so if they're killing themselves to escape prison). It also ensures that somebody doesn't just camp the checkpoint to take advantage of the newly spawned. That and anything really cool would have the government getting their hands on it.
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Aaantlion posted...

It's capped at two respawns period, so not really an issue

But that would almost have to be a legal/procedural choice and not a mechanical one, which would always open the door for breaking the rules.

ie, someone rich enough could theoretically bribe their way into getting extra revives. Or having their prior record deleted so they only show up as having been revived once before even if they've come back multiple times.

Every system is inherently corrupt, because humans are inherently corrupt. Even systems run by machines that are morally incorruptible allow for abuse because their data can be manipulated or accidentally glitched.
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Aaantlion posted...

Because otherwise everybody picks the checkpoint.

Well, that's cause it's awesome when it doesn't have limitations. It'd be better if you had put a cool down or something instead.

Aaantlion posted...

If somebody commits a crime and dies in the act to escape, they'd catch them at the checkpoint (doubly so if they're killing themselves to escape prison). It also ensures that somebody doesn't just camp the checkpoint to take advantage of the newly spawned. That and anything really cool would have the government getting their hands on it.

So it's still lame.

You don't need to worry about people camping the checkpoint cause it should be different per person.

Actually, I think the best use of a checkpoint like system was in UQ Holder. She has to make her checkpoint, and when she dies it takes her back to that point, she keeps her experience, but that's all. Now, it's a bit OP for her since she can create as many checkpoints as she wants until she gets the outcome she wants, which is how she was able to win untold amounts of money gambling XD, but when she dies, she feels the pain of how ever she died.

I think that'd be better, but maybe people are limited to once per day or something even less. But you don't get to take your items that you got after the checkpoint with you back to the checkpoint.

The worse possible thing to do, is to hand control over to some government. With your system, whole countries wouldn't even get to use these nice things because of their crappy governments.
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Warpzones, if i'm die i'm dead, and aint no clone respawning checkpoint is gonna change that.
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You can't fast travel in real life because there are always enemies nearby.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Aaantlion posted...

It's capped at two respawns period, so not really an issue

But that would almost have to be a legal/procedural choice and not a mechanical one, which would always open the door for breaking the rules.

ie, someone rich enough could theoretically bribe their way into getting extra revives. Or having their prior record deleted so they only show up as having been revived once before even if they've come back multiple times.

Every system is inherently corrupt, because humans are inherently corrupt. Even systems run by machines that are morally incorruptible allow for abuse because their data can be manipulated or accidentally glitched.

The government doesn't administer the revives, they monitor the revive spot.

AllstarSniper32 posted...

You don't need to worry about people camping the checkpoint cause it should be different per person.

There are so many people in the world that you camp any of one of them to find somebody. And that's overlooking that it would open the door to kill somebody in one location so you could easily kidnap them in another.
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Warp zones would be better. Also that checkpoint thing makes no sense why would you suddenly be wearing different clothes?
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Revelation34 posted...

Also that checkpoint thing makes no sense why would you suddenly be wearing different clothes?

Because having people show up naked would be indecent.
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Aaantlion posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Also that checkpoint thing makes no sense why would you suddenly be wearing different clothes?

Because having people show up naked would be indecent.

Why wouldn't they be wearing the same clothes they were wearing when they died? Where would they disappear to?
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Revelation34 posted...

Aaantlion posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Also that checkpoint thing makes no sense why would you suddenly be wearing different clothes?

Because having people show up naked would be indecent.

Why wouldn't they be wearing the same clothes they were wearing when they died? Where would they disappear to?

The clothes would be left behind. And doing so prevents people from killing themselves to move an item or smuggle an illicit object to the checkpoint.
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Warp zones.
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Wouldn't warp zones basically put every airline in existence out of business, much like how airlines put railroad lines out of business after their introduction?
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EclairReturns posted...

Wouldn't warp zones basically put every airline in existence out of business, much like how airlines put railroad lines out of business after their introduction?

Solar planes would be less expensive.
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Aaantlion posted...

The clothes would be left behind. And doing so prevents people from killing themselves to move an item or smuggle an illicit object to the checkpoint.

Have you never played a game that has a checkpoint system?
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Aaantlion posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Aaantlion posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Also that checkpoint thing makes no sense why would you suddenly be wearing different clothes?

Because having people show up naked would be indecent.

Why wouldn't they be wearing the same clothes they were wearing when they died? Where would they disappear to?

The clothes would be left behind. And doing so prevents people from killing themselves to move an item or smuggle an illicit object to the checkpoint.

What if they put the object in their ass?
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I mean unless there was a ton of warpzones it wouldn't be that useful just to have a few, you couldn't move that much stuff, and would still need plains/trains/cars/boats etc.

If you had plenty so that people could use it as a primary method of travel, then yeah.

The check points could be useful I guess, but not really on a global scale. Of the two, even with limited numbers, the warpzones would probably conserve more resources and create a more positive effect for people who are living.

If you could have warpzones get created at will, even from say your house to a general terminal etc, and then just have a line of people to step through warpzones to go from one area to another, that would be pretty freaking awesome, but...security would be a pain, and would slow everything down, especially for international warps.
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SunWuKung420 posted...

less expensive

I do not believe Zeus said anything about these warp pipes having a fare.
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EclairReturns posted...

I do not believe Zeus said anything about these warp zones having a fare.

He said the government controls them, fees and taxes are a given.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

EclairReturns posted...

I do not believe Zeus said anything about these warp zones having a fare.

He said the government controls them, fees and taxes are a given.

Maybe Bernie is president in this scenario.
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Warp zones.
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Jesus PO.
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It really depends on what kind of game you're playing. for example I would never want to have warp zones in a game like metro 2033.

I prefer a game with well interwoven levels that don't require a lot of traveling like the first dark souls
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

Aaantlion posted...

The clothes would be left behind. And doing so prevents people from killing themselves to move an item or smuggle an illicit object to the checkpoint.

Have you never played a game that has a checkpoint system?

There *are* games where you lose your gear when you die and you have to reclaim after you respawn. It's not a completely alien concept.

AllstarSniper32 posted...

EclairReturns posted...

I do not believe Zeus said anything about these warp zones having a fare.

He said the government controls them, fees and taxes are a given.

I would expect that there would be either a fare or an increase in taxes because the government would need somebody to monitor these areas for security reasons. Given that the only expense is monitoring, it probably wouldn't even be as much as a subway fare if it was charged as a fare rather than a tax.
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Aaantlion posted...

AllstarSniper32 posted...

Aaantlion posted...

The clothes would be left behind. And doing so prevents people from killing themselves to move an item or smuggle an illicit object to the checkpoint.

Have you never played a game that has a checkpoint system?

There *are* games where you lose your gear when you die and you have to reclaim after you respawn. It's not a completely alien concept.

ok, except you didn't say "gear" you said clothes. It's already been established that when you make it past the checkpoint, whatever you gain, item wise afterwards is lost when you return to the checkpoint.

So name me one game where after you get past the checkpoint and die your character goes back to the checkpoint naked. And yes, I mean visually.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

Aaantlion posted...

AllstarSniper32 posted...

Aaantlion posted...

The clothes would be left behind. And doing so prevents people from killing themselves to move an item or smuggle an illicit object to the checkpoint.

Have you never played a game that has a checkpoint system?

There *are* games where you lose your gear when you die and you have to reclaim after you respawn. It's not a completely alien concept.

ok, except you didn't say "gear" you said clothes. It's already been established that when you make it past the checkpoint, whatever you gain, item wise afterwards is lost when you return to the checkpoint.

So name me one game where after you get past the checkpoint and die your character goes back to the checkpoint naked. And yes, I mean visually.

Volgarr

Warp zones. Imagine that, we could conquer the universe in a matter of centuries!
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Zacek posted...

Warp zones. Imagine that, we could conquer the universe in a matter of centuries!

Not with the lame gimped version in this topic.

I'd rather have a gun that shoots out a beacon that you can then activate to teleport to.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

I'd rather have a gun that shoots out a bacon

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