Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 488: Grand Theft Jericho

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Steiner
09/25/19 7:50:41 AM
#301:


Maniac64 posted...
Grand Champion Dasher Hatfield should be in at least the middle of that list.

Even if they arent big enough to count.


i just have zero exp with 2019 chikara (or any chikara since before the shutdown) but i basically need no evidence to put someone at least above the jericho line here so he's in

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RPGlord95
09/25/19 8:11:49 AM
#302:


He's no Missile Assault Man
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Steiner
09/25/19 8:33:17 AM
#303:


ant?

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Jakyl25
09/25/19 9:07:04 AM
#304:


If youre counting WALTER why not count ZSJ
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Maniac64
09/25/19 9:07:18 AM
#305:


Man. He unmasked a few years ago.

And he is one of my favorite characters so I'm not arguing against him!
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Steiner
09/25/19 9:08:11 AM
#306:


Jakyl25 posted...
If youre counting WALTER why not count ZSJ


who watches rev pro? that title isn't a world title, it's a midcard new japan belt

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Jakyl25
09/25/19 9:10:13 AM
#307:


Fenix is also eligible for this list and hes pretty good
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Steiner
09/25/19 9:14:01 AM
#308:


Jakyl25 posted...
Fenix is also eligible for this list and hes pretty good


i like fenix but

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=773&page=5&reign=17

is that really a world championship we're going to talk about?

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scarletspeed7
09/25/19 9:16:39 AM
#309:


Kofi has had better overall matches than Rollins.
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Steiner
09/25/19 9:18:34 AM
#310:


seth had the great match with aj and nothing approaching how bad the ziggler and orton matches have been. even despite having baron corbin as an opponent in that stretch! kofi's only average match as champion was the owens one, to me

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Jakyl25
09/25/19 9:20:06 AM
#311:


This current Seth reign only started at Summerslam though
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Jakyl25
09/25/19 9:21:35 AM
#312:


Steiner posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
Fenix is also eligible for this list and hes pretty good


i like fenix but

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=773&page=5&reign=17

is that really a world championship we're going to talk about?


He dethroned Jeff Jarrett though!
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Steiner
09/25/19 9:22:22 AM
#313:


Jakyl25 posted...
He dethroned Jeff Jarrett though!


exactly!

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Jakyl25
09/25/19 9:25:21 AM
#314:


Eddv posted...
Yeah Cages title reign has been him hurt a whole bunch and he's probably gonna lose to Sami Callihan to set up Callihan/Crist and the culmination of Tessa/Callihan


Tessa winning the World Title would be a great capper on this run and get Impact some attention

Shes better than Sexy Star!
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Steiner
09/25/19 9:26:31 AM
#315:


Jakyl25 posted...
This current Seth reign only started at Summerslam though


and this is fair but then there's nothing to compare with so i decided to run the whole year of seth title matches.. which is basically JUST corbin matches, and all of them better than that ziggler cage match or anything with orton

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Jakyl25
09/25/19 9:27:24 AM
#316:


Oh hey I know who you forgot

Americas Finest Nick Aldis
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Steiner
09/25/19 9:29:13 AM
#317:


as well as the Pride of Wales, Eddie Dennis!

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scarletspeed7
09/25/19 9:46:05 AM
#318:


Steiner posted...
seth had the great match with aj and nothing approaching how bad the ziggler and orton matches have been. even despite having baron corbin as an opponent in that stretch! kofi's only average match as champion was the owens one, to me

Dude, Corbin matches. I mean, I know you don't watch WWE but come on.
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Steiner
09/25/19 9:48:04 AM
#319:


i end up watching every ppv at some point! the corbin/seth matches were fine, the kofi/orton matches sucked and kofi/ziggler was the worst world title match i've ever seen in wwe

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Steiner
09/25/19 9:50:34 AM
#320:


obviously they should be aiming for a higher standard than "fine" for world title matches but considering corbin was the other half of the match, i struggle to bury rollins too much for them!

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scarletspeed7
09/25/19 9:50:42 AM
#321:


Here's the thing: even if I could concede that Kofi has worst matches (which I can't because by and large they are mercifully shorter), Seth cuts such abysmal promos. Kofi is such a fantastic baby face. Even the STUPID STUPID STUPID Orton promos were vastly more interesting than any crap in Seth's world.
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Steiner
09/25/19 9:56:30 AM
#322:


scarletspeed7 posted...
Here's the thing: even if I could concede that Kofi has worst matches (which I can't because by and large they are mercifully shorter),


https://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=20&page=5&reign=136

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=3102&page=5&reign=7
https://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=3102&page=5&reign=9

it's pretty close, but the ones i hated most were kofi's 20+ minute ones - besides the title win, of course. the one you have a point on is the joe match but i just straight up forgot that happened. it's the 20 minute fucking stinkers that have made it the worst title reign i can remember.

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Jakyl25
09/25/19 10:04:58 AM
#323:


God that reminded me that WWE did a show called SMACKVILLE
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scarletspeed7
09/25/19 10:59:57 AM
#324:


Steiner posted...
scarletspeed7 posted...
Here's the thing: even if I could concede that Kofi has worst matches (which I can't because by and large they are mercifully shorter),


https://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=20&page=5&reign=136

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=3102&page=5&reign=7
https://www.cagematch.net/?id=5&nr=3102&page=5&reign=9

it's pretty close, but the ones i hated most were kofi's 20+ minute ones - besides the title win, of course. the one you have a point on is the joe match but i just straight up forgot that happened. it's the 20 minute fucking stinkers that have made it the worst title reign i can remember.

There are a lot of broad generalizations I think you make when you say that the WWE Title is equivalent to the Universal Title. Smackdown has been significantly reduced in value in comparison to RAW following Mania. The idea was to use Seth to propel Corbin in the same way that Becky was theoretically being used to propel Evans. The less they gained traction with both efforts, the clearer it became that they needed to devote more time to each storyline.

When you shovel more effort into one title in WWE, the other loses momentum and traction. This is easily evidenced in the lack of midcard title storytelling thanks to the Wild Card rule as well. When the WWE Title becomes a midcard title, then your US and IC titles become lower midcard to bottom card belts. They have to be relegated to pre-show matches. And this one-match card building sensibility, this notion that starts must be anointed by Vince so that they may be given a star push, combined with Vince's myopic understanding of how promotions can only truly have one star on top of a division if not the company, means that Kofi is not a world champion.

Sure, I can respect your position that Kofi is a terrible world champion. But no other company has two world champions. And no other company presents three brands, where two are in complete concert with one another and one is completely isolated so as to simulate a true separate company. In the WWE, we are presented an NFC and AFC, rather than an AFL and NFL.

Kofi's title reign has moments of strong storytelling that propel the New Day as a major component of the company. Seth's title reign propels a notion that Seth is supposed to be this harder edged babyface somewhere between Surfer and Crow Sting. It fails miserably, it demonstrates no drawing power, and Vince is forced to double down his efforts at the expense of positioning another title as a top title. I just can't in good conscience say that Kofi is a terrible world champion. Only in WWE anymore would I give a title holder a pass like this, but all of the fundamentals are there, all of the potential is there, and we've seen glimpses of a Kofi not hobbled by tunnel vision booking.
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Steiner
09/25/19 4:55:35 PM
#325:


after much discussion i have decided to revise the list - clearly, i missed jordan devlin, who should be in at third between miyahara and okada

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Eddv
09/25/19 5:11:40 PM
#326:


Honestly Aldis vs Scurll is a better match than either WWE champion has had.
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Jakyl25
09/25/19 5:22:41 PM
#327:


scarletspeed7 posted...
The idea was to use Seth to propel Corbin in the same way that Becky was theoretically being used to propel Evans.


You cant actually DO that though until theyre established and bulletproof themselves

They did it right with Seth and AJ. AJ is someone who it means something to beat, who wont lose momentum by a loss. Seth isnt at that level, so when you use him to elevate Corbin, you hurt Seth
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scarletspeed7
09/25/19 5:25:18 PM
#328:


Jakyl25 posted...
You cant actually DO that though until theyre established and bulletproof themselves

"What do you mean? He beat Brock Lesnar! He proved himself right then and there that he was the top star in the company! Because that's how it's always worked here. Just look at how Steve Austin rose to prominence he beat... Jake the Snake! And The Rock beat... Faarooq! See? Just like Brock Lesnar! Immediate stardom!"

You're right that AJ meant something, and that's important. What's damning is that Seth means as much as AJ.
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Lopen
09/25/19 7:10:50 PM
#329:


Yeah I dunno Steiner I think if you actually paid any attention to builds and stuff and didn't just watch matches in a vacuum you'd generally see Kofi's stuff as better than Rollins's this year. Of course, why watch WWE, I get it, but just saying.

I'm not really singing the praise of either champion at the moment but yeah on a week to week basis Kofi is the better champion by far even if he's maybe laid some eggs on PPVs. I guess part of this is Rollins's builds but man the dude feels worse than Roman Reigns ever was at this point.
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PrivateBiscuit1
09/25/19 8:20:20 PM
#330:


https://twitter.com/_StarDESTROYER/status/1177011294345531393?s=19

Oney Lorcan has the best wrestling Twitter today.
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scarletspeed7
09/25/19 8:23:51 PM
#331:


The fact that other WWE responds to him constantly is really what puts it over the top. I enjoyed his response to Asuka playing a Truck Simulator way too much.
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TheRock1525
09/26/19 2:45:37 AM
#332:


Anyone catch NXT tonight? Seems like the plan is to defend all three titles next week opposite AEW.
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Eddv
09/26/19 3:07:49 AM
#333:


Nope. I didnt.
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Fastbreak
09/26/19 3:09:55 AM
#334:


Sell me on going to hell in a cell

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ninkendo
09/26/19 3:10:12 AM
#335:


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Steiner
09/26/19 3:55:06 AM
#336:


Lopen posted...
Yeah I dunno Steiner I think if you actually paid any attention to builds and stuff and didn't just watch matches in a vacuum you'd generally see Kofi's stuff as better than Rollins's this year. Of course, why watch WWE, I get it, but just saying.


i read everything and watch enough of the angles to know kofi's stuff does nothing for me! but i've been the low man on kofi since the whole thing started when i watched the whole mania build and hated that so i know i'm alone here. honestly, comparing the two wwe goobers was like the least important part of my post and i'm just sad it's all that's been discussed lol

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Steiner
09/26/19 4:03:58 AM
#337:


plus there is nothing any amount of good build or character work can do to overcome the fact that any tine he's had a 20 minute championship match it's fucking sucked, in my eyes. i want to be excited to watch title matches, which is why i'm looking forward to brock's reign!

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Eddv
09/26/19 4:11:08 AM
#338:


Fastbreak posted...
Sell me on going to hell in a cell


I cannot in good conscience, advocate spending even a single red cent on WWE.
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Steiner
09/26/19 4:39:54 AM
#339:


TheRock1525 posted...
Anyone catch NXT tonight? Seems like the plan is to defend all three titles next week opposite AEW.


Watching now. Wonder how long it takes for AEW TV to have a match as good as Lee/Dijak
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Lopen
09/26/19 4:44:57 AM
#340:


Forgot to watch NXT tonight despite wanting to give it another shot. More evidence that first episode was very poor at hooking new viewers imo.

Next week, maybe!
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Steiner
09/26/19 11:12:08 AM
#341:


thought NXT was excellent again, while I will probably watch AEW first next week due to the newsworthiness, I can not imagine it being a better show than NXT

in news, we have the confirmed announce teams for Raw and Smackdown going forward;
Raw: Vic Joseph, Dio Maddin, Jerry Lawler
Smackdown: Michael Cole, Corey Graves, Renee Young

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bryans7
09/26/19 11:22:42 AM
#342:


1. Damn Dio got the call up quick.
2. Byron btfo
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Steiner
09/26/19 11:25:51 AM
#343:


move byron to 205 then cancel it

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Steiner
09/26/19 11:27:51 AM
#344:


tom phillips too... to bring in lawler, seems like a bizarre step honestly

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Steiner
09/26/19 11:36:01 AM
#345:


more news - john morrison/impact/mundo is returning to wwe

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Lopen
09/26/19 11:38:03 AM
#346:


Oh boy can't wait to see him be buried worse than EC3
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Steiner
09/26/19 11:39:10 AM
#347:


but he's a reality tv star now!

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Jakyl25
09/26/19 12:17:24 PM
#348:


I wonder if this gives them an inside track on Taya
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Jakyl25
09/26/19 12:18:06 PM
#349:


Steiner posted...
but he's a reality tv star now!


To be fair he was actually very beloved by the Survivor fanbase
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TheRock1525
09/26/19 12:22:25 PM
#350:


Crazy to think dude is almost 40.
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