Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 488: Grand Theft Jericho

(+) Yeah! (+)

Harpers back? Awesome.

Not thrilled about being immidietly put with Rowan again but at least that puts him with Bryan as well.

How long before his contract expires now?
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Originally supposed to expire in November

When he asked to be released they added injury time onto the end of it to push it just past WM

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Let the count down begin.
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Why are we supposed to care about the draft if they just do whatever they want anyway?

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Tom Bombadil posted...

Why are we supposed to care about the draft if they just do whatever they want anyway?

RAW will be Mondays on USA and Smackdown Live will be Fridays on FOX, so presumably there won't be much cross-pollination.
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Yeah supposedly Fox wants exclusive Superstars

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Tom Bombadil posted...

Why are we supposed to care about the draft if they just do whatever they want anyway?

because things will be different this time!

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Hey if they can keep the rosters separate for 3 weeks itll be better than last time

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Just realized that at the moment we have Seth vs Bray and also Roman vs Harper/Rowan

It always comes back to Shield vs Wyatt Family

If this was CHIKARA it would be on purpose!

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Jakyl25 posted...

Just realized that at the moment we have Seth vs Bray and also Roman vs Harper/Rowan

It always comes back to Shield vs Wyatt Family

If this was CHIKARA it would be on purpose!

Didnt Seth also just fight Braun?
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https://www.kayfabenews.com/did-you-know-the-fiend-and-bray-wyatt-might-be-the-same-person/

Whoa
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Jakyl25 posted...

Just realized that at the moment we have Seth vs Bray and also Roman vs Harper/Rowan

It always comes back to Shield vs Wyatt Family

If this was CHIKARA it would be on purpose!

Too bad its actually because they dramatically fail to put over any of their talent that arrived after Cena left.
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ninkendo posted...

https://www.kayfabenews.com/did-you-know-the-fiend-and-bray-wyatt-might-be-the-same-person/

Whoa

holllllly shit

well now I need to watch
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RIP Kofi's reign.
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bryans7 posted...

RIP Kofi's reign.

finally
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Back in the day I predicted Brock would announce his cash-in for the debut Fox SD

They essentially did that without the briefcase

Why did he ever need the briefcase

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Jakyl25 posted...

Back in the day I predicted Brock would announce his cash-in for the debut Fox SD

They essentially did that without the briefcase

Why did he ever need the briefcase

They needed to create new stars, since the last years were booked terribly.

I guess maybe Rollins?
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Rollins ALREADY BEAT HIM though!

Cashing in on Kofi made so much more sense

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Jakyl25 posted...

Rollins ALREADY BEAT HIM though!

Cashing in on Kofi made so much more sense

It was a cheap win, though. He really needed that do-over.
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2.42
2.32
2.08

RAW was beat out by "90 Day Fiance."
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Thats a hot reality show though. Nothing to fear!

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Maybe they need to have Maria go with Rusev to Bulgaria for 90 days to see if this is all going to work out
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NXT Live time.
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Fatal fourway for the #1 contendership to the NXT women's championship was solid, if a bit choppy at time.

I never watched much of Candice LaRae on the indies but I've never been super impressed with her in NXT.
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And following that match, we get a commercial for AEW.
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She was considered really good in the era immediately prior to actually good women wrestlers appearing on the indies.
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Man I hate to see Dream lose the title.

But super happy for Strong.
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I feel like NXT could have learned a lot from like Lucha Underground. Like for a new viewer it was pretty hard to follow and care for me. I know Io Shirai and Mia Yim and Adam Cole from other organizations but like yeah just a buncha "who are these people and why should I care" as someone who has tuned out of NXT for a year or so.

I mean maybe the assumption is that all the viewers already watch NXT on the network but that feels like a poor assumption to make.
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I definitely only watch NXT these days during the Takeovers

Not sure if live TV version will change that for me I mean I'm not even watching it right now
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Also I think opening with a four way on a introductory wrestling TV show is a fundamental sin. Introduce these characters 2 at a time please.
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Lopen posted...

I mean maybe the assumption is that all the viewers already watch NXT on the network but that feels like a poor assumption to make.

It is. No one who gets called up to the main roster from NXT ever gets a reaction on their debut, and NXT consistently pulls pretty mediocre numbers on the network.

It's why I expect the ratings to be lower than what a lot of people seem to think.
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I think first week ratings might be vaguely decent but viewer retention will probably be not so good at all. I certainly don't feel compelled to watch next week. I probably will to give it a chance but none of the matches were particularly good in a vacuum and I wasn't sold on any of the talent. Velveteen looks like a character with potential I guess but ot wasn't put on display

And hell seeing Shirai made me fear WWE neutered her more than wanting to see her again. But it was a four way so who knows
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I don't think it's a good idea to cite Lucha Underground as a template for success considering how much money it lost.
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NBIceman posted...

No one who gets called up to the main roster from NXT ever gets a reaction on their debut

I'm sorry, what? A ton of main roster debuts were to huge pops. Hell, fucking Tye Dillinger fighting Curt Hawkins got a solid pop. Finn Balor, Bayley, Enzo and Cass, Shinsuke Nakamura, Sami Zayn. Even American Alpha and Bobby Roode got big pops for their debuts.
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Lucha Underground losing money really had nothing to do with the quality or presentation of the product
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Like if you wanna go that way you'd have to argue WWE as a product is the best it's ever been because it's making the most money it has ever made

Pretty sure literally no one would claim that, even people who love WWE's current direction. Just kind of an asinine argument really
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Also isn't that a glass houses thing to begin with? Like doesn't NXT as a brand in a vacuum actually lose money and it just gets absorbed by WWE's huge profits?
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The point being that NXT is already losing money and adopting a strategy that caused a company to lose as much money in 2 years as TNA did in 10 years doesn't make much sense.

The reality is that all it really needs to be is "that WWE show where it's mostly about the matches" to give it a decent alternative to AEW. Trying to be Lucha Underground isn't the solution.
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TheRock1525 posted...

and adopting a strategy that caused a company to lose as much money in 2 years as TNA did in 10 years

Nothing about what I said was good about Lucha Underground is what caused it to lose money though.

I wasn't saying put NXT on VH1 and ramp production values up too high for what you're bringing in and overpay talent and sell arenas that seat 12 people

I was saying there are certain things Lucha Underground did to make a set of relative unknowns appealing that NXT patently did not do. Altering the writing of your show a bit to cater to people who don't know who the hell these "stars" are is not going to bankrupt NXT. Probably would help the ratings long term quite a lot.
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Except the show did a solid job of giving everyone elements of their personality that had matches so I'm not sure what you want other than "everyone gets a 2 minute vignette so we know their motivations."

I guess we don't know anything new about Sean Maluta but that's about it.
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Like consider a show that was "mostly about the matches" had a 12 second squash where ringleader farmer brown killed some rando and a dumb finish main event as 2/3 of its matches and I'm not thinking it's achieving that objective you're saying either

Putting matches that blow you away 1v1 with limited storyline interaction would actually have been a huge upgrade over what the show was
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What was dumb about the finish of the main event?

It established The Undisputed ERA as a faction (and a heel one at that) and it made Velveteen Dream look strong in defeat. That's a win-win for storylines moving forward. The charismatic likable babyface was robbed of his title by a powerful faction. It established clear heroes and villains.
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Charismatic likable babyface was only a charismatic likable babyface you cared about if you follow the product. You can't honestly say Velveteen was built as that by one brief promo package and part of a match. For me it was "oh Adam Cole Babay screwed the mediocre match up what a shame"

You gotta successfully build him as one I'm supposed to like first, then screw him. Give him some nailbiter wins over blatantly scummy dudes for a few weeks and make me like him-- or go a bit harder on promos to characterize him and Adam Cole's dudes more rapidly. The whole show felt like I was being dropped into something ongoing. Which I mean, that's exactly what it was but I think pacing the storylines in your product to allow the characters to establish themselves a bit before going hard on the developments would have helped a lot for non WWE Network people.
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I guess if you see it that way. I mean we're both guys who have some level of knowledge of NXT prior so it's hard to say for sure but it's like if you have your babyface triumph over the dastardly heels right away then there's no real chase.

People keep saying "making Jericho the first AEW champion was the right call because he's a heel that can be used to build up a face" yet at the same time saying "we should have our big heel group lose an important match right out of the gate" which then means when they finally did take the title from VD it feels rather hollow.

It's like if you look at how the OC is treated on the main roster, and how they routinely get punked, having a heel faction win right away and look like an actual dominant faction (holding all the gold) makes sense because it tells the new viewer right away "these four men are an incredibly big deal, and when someone takes them down it's an even bigger deal."
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Like why do people like Velveteen Dream? I'm not saying he's not likable but I couldn't exactly tell you what the appeal in the character is. Does he cut good promos? His match was just okay, largely because a screwy finish can only be so good on a pure match quality perspective. He had some zany mannerisms but so did Orlando Jordan and no one likes him (well actually I did but I digress)

Why do people dislike Adam Cole's guys? They interfere in matches which is lame but I'd hope there's more to it than that.

I'm not saying Velveteen should just walk over the Adam Cole dudes but maybe he should walk over some lesser guys first while you build up Cole's dudes as jackasses, then have the screwjob confrontation
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Chris Jericho is Chris Jericho and any wrestling fan knows who he is. I mean I liked Adam Cole in RoH but it's not the same level of recognizability.

Jericho will also presumably get some interview time to put over how jackassy he is in AEW before being put in a big moment like that, even though we all know who he is

Like I'm not saying it was necessarily a horrible episode. I'm saying it was a horrible first episode. There are certain things a first episode should do that this did not. Again, I think that's more because WWE (likely wrongly) thinks that most potential viewers follow NXT, but speaking as someone who doesn't currently I will tell you what I thought it did poorly
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https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/09/chris-jericho-says-he-took-his-wwe-wrestlemania-33-match-659655/

I feel like I've heard this claim from Jericho before but either way it's just really weird.
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This is the stupidest argument I have seen Rock make in quite some time.

"They should do like Lucha Underground did and introduce their characters 1 at a time so the audience can get to know them"

"LOL Lucha Underground went out of business and lost money so clearly storytelling that way sucks"

(refreshes)

Speaking of storytelling sins "this stable needs all of the gold" but why?

"Umm BECAUSE"

is very TNA.
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i couldn't be more excited at the prospect of a wwe show with no fucking "entertainment". i understand there's a risk of not getting the characters over - but i think doing things like squash matches and letting the talent get over in ring will pay off and create a different audience to raw and smackdown. i see where the concerns come from but take new japan as the obvious example - they basically have no interviews on the shows, but you still completely understand who the characters are. I'm bullish on nxt right now and looking forward to watching the show tonight

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FWIW, Iceman's prediction skills have been fucking on point lately, so I'm just gonna assume its gonna go the way he says it will til proven otherwise.
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