Board 8 > Zoe Quinn strikes again.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.pcgamer.com/night-in-the-woods-developer-alec-holowka-has-died/

https://twitter.com/Dataracer117/status/1167948513692381190

Internet mob justice is getting way out of hand. This guy, according to his sister, was abused himself and had substantial mental health issues. I'm not claiming to know the validity of the accusations (even his sister admits he "caused harm"), but to go after him years after the alleged events took place, when you haven't been getting as much attention recently, seems really shady.

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/zoe-quinn-sexual-assault-alec-holowka/

Reading Quinn's account, yeah it doesn't seem like he was that great a guy, but there's something really wrong when people think him killing himself is an acceptable resolution to the problem.

If it's a legal matter, then make it a legal matter. Why do that I guess, though, when you can destroy the guy's career instantly on Twitter.

This'll probably get locked or removed but I find the whole thing pretty upsetting.

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yeah this topic is garbage
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Blaming any of the consequences of his own actions on Quinn is embracing the internet mob mentality that you so readily decry.

It's a shitty situation all around, but victim blaming is straight bullshit. Good to know you're a hypocritical ass.
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iiicon posted...

yeah this topic is garbage

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I dunno anything about this particular dude but
- Mental issues/past abuse is not an excuse for doing terrible things
- Cheering at a terrible person's death is absolutely acceptable
- Harassing his sister is not (unless she was an accomplice)
- Saying "If it's a legal matter, then make it a legal matter" makes no sense because (1) the guy's dead and (2) a lot of the stuff is not actionable, just general assholery (yelling at her for an hour because of the way she said hello)
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Drakeryn posted...

- Cheering at a terrible person's death is absolutely acceptable

This type of thinking is mind-boggling to me. Wanting to see a truly evil person - like a mass-murderer - die, sure, but you're basically saying he should die because at one point he was an asshole.

https://archive.is/zkHTX/8fdd30f941dbcef2b100f317f9f1ffebfd66975b.png

From Zoe's post: "I know Alec is likely not well and I will always believe in rehabilitation over punishment." - yet she goes ahead with the public accusation anyway. His sister says he was trying to get better. To me it seems like Zoe trying to mask her intentions - there's no way, after ALL the gamergate shit, that she didn't know what the repercussions of her posts would be

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iiicon posted...

yeah this topic is garbage

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Hi, fuck off forever.

jcgamer107 posted...

Drakeryn posted...

- Cheering at a terrible person's death is absolutely acceptable

This type of thinking is mind-boggling to me. You're basically saying he should die because at one point he was an asshole.

https://archive.is/zkHTX/8fdd30f941dbcef2b100f317f9f1ffebfd66975b.png

From Zoe's post: "I know Alec is likely not well and I will always believe in rehabilitation over punishment." - yet she goes ahead with the public accusation anyway. His sister says he was trying to get better. To me it seems like Zoe trying to mask her intentions - there's no way, after ALL the gamergate shit, that she didn't know what the repercussions of her posts would be.

What a bad post

If making sexual assault known is "punishment," then, uh... Don't commit the fucking crime?
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I will be more measured and simply say this topic was not a good idea.

Also Drakeryn is a literal lawyer and I love it.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I will be more measured and simply say this topic was not a good idea.

I agree

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Seriously, if you buy into this narrative that zoe quinn somehow bullied alec holowka into bullying himself, you need to really rethink yourself

It is not a happy circumstance that holowka killed himself and I have no doubt that he suffered - but he also made quinn suffer, and she did absolutely nothing wrong in sharing her story. She can't be held accountable for what alec did, and you are making the world a much shittier place for encouraging mob justice

jcgamer107 posted...

This type of thinking is mind-boggling to me. Wanting to see a <i>truly</i> evil person - like a mass-murderer - die, sure, but you're basically saying he should die because at one point he was an asshole.

https://archive.is/zkHTX/8fdd30f941dbcef2b100f317f9f1ffebfd66975b.png

From Zoe's post: "I know Alec is likely not well and I will always believe in rehabilitation over punishment." - yet she goes ahead with the public accusation anyway. His sister says he was trying to get better. To me it seems like Zoe trying to mask her intentions - there's no way, after ALL the gamergate shit, that she didn't know what the repercussions of her posts would be.

uh I dont think she knew the repercussions would be him killing himself.

also the title of this topic is kind of flippant in a really fucked up way considering how serious and messed up this situation is.

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People who were celebrating his death are terrible people. You are correct, jcgamer.

I have nothing to say other than that.

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"Flippant" is a kind way of putting it - this is gamergate shit straight up

Paratroopa1 posted...

"Flippant" is a kind way of putting it - this is gamergate shit straight up

Without a doubt. Nobody made a topic to cheer his death. But a GGer made a topic to blame a victim who did not do a single thing wrong.

It's fucking disgusting. Fuck you, jcgamer.
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Dont get me wrong, I dont agree with the whole... celebrating a death stuff, unless in more extreme circumstances

But the how dare she share her story and victim blaming is pretty disgusting
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Where was it confirmed it was suicide because of what Quinn said about him years ago?

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Not a single person here has celebrated his death, I would not find that appropriate at all

MoogleKupo141 posted...

uh I dont think she knew the repercussions would be him killing himself.

Probably not but she had to have known his career would basically be over, and that that would have an effect on his mental state

Nanis23 posted...

Where was it confirmed it was suicide because of what Quinn said about him years ago?

She said all this less than a week ago, about events that happened years ago. I did not see it confirmed that it was a suicide, but it's about 99.9% likely that was the case since his sister alluded to him seeking help via "crisis services" just before dying.

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jcgamer107 posted...

This'll probably get locked or removed but I find the whole thing pretty upsetting.

I'm definitely upset about something.
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jcgamer107 posted...

Probably not but she had to have known his career would basically be over, and that that would have an effect on his mental state

That isn't her responsibility, first off. Secondly, most accusations of this sort don't change a single thing so it's pretty stupid for you to allege that simple cause and effect.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

Not a single person here has celebrated his death, I would not find that appropriate at all

Glad to hear.

I believe that jcgamer's angst was directed to mob mentality, not Zoe Quinn specifically. Also to the people finding it acceptable he killed himself.

"Reading Quinn's account, yeah it doesn't seem like he was that great a guy, but there's something really wrong when people think him killing himself is an acceptable resolution to the problem."

I mean, so many people jumped on jcgamer with drive-by posts to fuck off and accused him of victim blaming, but he seems to be blaming mob mentality and calling out the same thing you yourself said you wouldn't agree with.


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Corrik7 posted...

I believe that jcgamer's angst was directed to mob mentality, not Zoe Quinn specifically.

jcgamer107 posted...

Zoe Quinn strikes again.

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Either learn how to read and stfu or eat shit, corrik
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

iiicon posted...

yeah this topic is garbage

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jcgamer107 posted...

Probably not but she had to have known his career would basically be over, and that that would have an effect on his mental state

She said all this less than a week ago, about events that happened years ago. I did not see it confirmed that it was a suicide, but it's about 99.9% likely that was the case since his sister alluded to him seeking help via "crisis services" just before dying.

Oh so this article is a few days old uh, I see

But..I dunno
As much as I hate Zoe Quinn, posting about wrongdoing of another person on the Internet is..fine, I think?
The problem is that this is allowing her to summon the mob, whether she wants it or not..so she needed to be aware of that

But still, if she is telling the truth, I can't blame her

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Like, this wasn't just some thing that happened years ago and it was all water under the bridge, this was an ongoing situation where quinn was scared to go to places holowka would be, this hatchet was not buried, and she wasn't the only person afraid of him or hurt by him

The fact that he may have been unstable and had a possibility of doing something drastic cannot shield him from criticism forever. Having a mental illness does not give you a free pass to inflict pain on others

"Internet mob justice is getting out of hand" says user who directly tries to pin a suicide on a woman who had nothing to do with it.

Yes some dumbass random twitter account approved of the man's death, because twitter is full of shitters, but that has nothing to do with Quinn who didn't comment in such a way.

Zoe didn't tell the man to do the things he did, that was all him. Blame him, blame the people who allegedly abused him, blame the people who didn't raise him properly, hell blame whatever mental illness he had.

But blaming Zoe, and claiming she did it "for attention"?

Small dick energy.
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Jc, like you even admit his sister said he had darkness and hurt people, but then think his victim is to blame for him committing suicide?

Oof
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I believe that jcgamer is alluding to that Zoe Quinn has struck again because she, in his mind, creates a furor of mob mentality that he talks about in his post.

That she didn't have to bring this up yet again a week or so ago (trusting your info jcgamer) and did which again incited that furor.

The actual problem that jcgamer seems to be alluding to is mob mentality. Not Zoe Quinn herself. Zoe Quinn would be powerless in this scenario without a mob mentality behind it.

I see no problem with him being against mob mentality, as it is awful, or him being against people happy that someone committed suicide.

I think his finger of blame lies on the mob. Not Zoe. But, that she incited the mob.

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Corrik.

No.

Stop with the Devil's Advocate act.

He

literally

blamed Zoe.

You are educated enough to know this, because you are educated enough to know how to read.

There was no reason to bring up Zoe at all if this was about "the mob". The topic title would be "Internet Mob Culture strikes again", but JC named dropped Zoe Quinn.

So please Corrik, drop the act. Just this once.
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Dark Young Link posted...

Corrik.

No.

Stop with the Devil's Advocate act.

He

literally

blamed Zoe.

You are educated enough to know this, because you are educated enough to know how to read.

There was no reason to bring up Zoe at all if this was about "the mob". The topic title would be "Internet Mob Culture strikes again", but JC named dropped Zoe Quinn.

So please Corrik, drop the act. Just this once.

I got muh bois back, bruh.

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Dark Young Link posted...

You are educated enough to know this, because you are educated enough to know how to read.

how confident are you about this
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iiicon posted...

Dark Young Link posted...

You are educated enough to know this, because you are educated enough to know how to read.

how confident are you about this

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It seems like the topic title was ill-advised, and I agree that people shouldn't really be blamed for coming forward with honest accounts of abuse (I think the idea is we want a world where people can support each other and share that they aren't alone)

That said, I do agree with Corrik that a large part of OP's post does seem to be against "mob culture", and against harassers. I feel we can probably all agree that some of the biggest "villains" in any of this are the people who went out of their way to harass anyone involved in this. (Or maybe I'm wrong?)

There are reasons why the legal system doesn't get involved in this type of thing which I think the OP can learn more about, but I'd rather assume the OP just doesn't realize the implications rather than assume he's deliberately obtuse. (The gist of it, as far as I can understand, is that the legal system usually cannot do anything about these cases even when they are true, and much of the accusation might not qualify as illegal even if he did horrible things)

Zoe Quinn is a divisive figure, and if you believe that lies have been spread about her to make her seem less trustworthy, then it's equally possible that the OP is a person who has been deceived by those lies than he is someone responsible for them. The things I've read about Zoe Quinn online have certainly made her seem untrustworthy. I admit I don't know enough to know the whole story about her. In this case, I don't have any reason to think she's lying, since it seems many people corroborated her story.

Ultimately, the OP seems quite upset about what happened, and I think his feelings are valid. He is upset that someone who was clearly not 100% all bad was driven to suicide, and I think that's a sad situation. When people are hurt, they look for someone to blame. Maybe OP is blaming the wrong people. I think it's understandable, even if it is misguided. I don't jump to the OP being a piece of shit. In fact, I think, on a scale of how unreasonable the OP could've been, they could've handled this much worse. (See: Literally any of the threads on the Steam Community for the game)

That's just my opinion. I don't think the OP has presented himself as being past the point of reason, so I don't think such a strong reaction is warranted. Please tell me if you think I'm wrong.

I feel like this isnt the first wait, what opinion TC has shared, but I cant recall what else

EDIT: Maybe Im confusing him with jdtay. It was a j guy
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Dels posted...

It seems like the topic title was ill-advised, and I agree that people shouldn't really be blamed for coming forward with honest accounts of abuse (I think the idea is we want a world where people can support each other and share that they aren't alone)

That said, I do agree with Corrik that a large part of OP's post does seem to be against "mob culture", and against harassers. I feel we can probably all agree that some of the biggest "villains" in any of this are the people who went out of their way to harass anyone involved in this. (Or maybe I'm wrong?)

There are reasons why the legal system doesn't get involved in this type of thing which I think the OP can learn more about, but I'd rather assume the OP just doesn't realize the implications rather than assume he's deliberately obtuse. (The gist of it, as far as I can understand, is that the legal system usually cannot do anything about these cases even when they are true, and much of the accusation might not qualify as illegal even if he did horrible things)

Zoe Quinn is a divisive figure, and if you believe that lies have been spread about her to make her seem less trustworthy, then it's equally possible that the OP is a person who has been deceived by those lies than he is someone responsible for them. The things I've read about Zoe Quinn online have certainly made her seem untrustworthy. I admit I don't know enough to know the whole story about her. In this case, I don't have any reason to think she's lying, since it seems many people corroborated her story.

Ultimately, the OP seems quite upset about what happened, and I think his feelings are valid. He is upset that someone who was clearly not 100% all bad was driven to suicide, and I think that's a sad situation. When people are hurt, they look for someone to blame. Maybe OP is blaming the wrong people. I think it's understandable, even if it is misguided. I don't jump to the OP being a piece of shit. In fact, I think, on a scale of how unreasonable the OP could've been, they could've handled this much worse. (See: Literally any of the threads on the Steam Community for the game)

That's just my opinion. I don't think the OP has presented himself as being past the point of reason, so I don't think such a strong reaction is warranted. Please tell me if you think I'm wrong.

You're being duped, this is 100% anti-zoe quinn messaging

The topic title - "zoe quinn strikes again" - is all you need to know. This is coming straight out of the gamergate playbook, the harassment campaign of all harassment campaigns

Dels posted...

I don't jump to the OP being a piece of shit. In fact, I think, on a scale of how unreasonable the OP could've been, they could've handled this much worse.

what do you think zoe quinn strikes again means

he is not bemoaning a tragic situation

he has clear feelings about who he thinks is at fault
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Anyway, @jcgamer107 :

I understand why you'd think that Zoe coming forward with this led to his suicide, and that Zoe should have "known better".

But I feel like you're sort of missing the alternative, which is, like... what is she supposed to do, assuming her claims are true? Should she hide this for the rest of her life because telling the truth could hurt him?

I guess the way I see it is, imagine if you were in a position where someone had abused you, and no one knew about it, and they were famous and successful. Wouldn't you have a desire to tell the truth? And if you did, would you worry that "Well, if I say the truth, it might hurt him?"

Also, some others in this topic have said it, but the majority of people who have this sort of accusation outted about themselves actually don't commit suicide, as far as I know, so I'm not sure it actually follows that she'd know this would happen.

Also, from what I can tell from following way too much online drama over the past year, it seems like every person (on any side. of any issue) always issues a "Please don't harass the person, I'm not trying to hur them" clause and it doesn't seem to ever get followed. If I said "You said that but you knew people would do it anyway" about it, it'd basically be accusing almost every big online commentator of being guilty, because it's so universal.

also incredible how we've reached a point where someone types "mob culture is a thing we can all agree is bad" and "zoe quinn is a divisive figure" in the same message
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Dark Young Link posted...

There was no reason to bring up Zoe at all if this was about "the mob". The topic title would be "Internet Mob Culture strikes again", but JC named dropped Zoe Quinn.

There is a reason to bring up Zoe when she provided the spark. She seemed to know the timing was bad, that he wasn't doing well, but that didn't faze her. So yes I do have an issue with both her and "cancel" culture. I think she knows what she's doing and wants to play the 'innocent victim' to such an extent that it should raise some eyebrows. There's a very good chance she knows the power she has in the gaming world and relishes the chance to wield it.

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Holy shit youre doubling down on it

I thought you were just dumb but you really are a piece of shit
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Paratroopa1 posted...

The topic title - "zoe quinn strikes again" - is all you need to know. This is coming straight out of the gamergate playbook, the harassment campaign of all harassment campaigns

I mean, I agree that the topic title was definitely the most unreasonable part. Like I said, finding one person to blame here seems impossible, and obviously jumping to that conclusion first and foremost is not going to be the best way to start a discussion.

Dels posted...

finding one person to blame here seems impossible

and yet they found one. weird! wonder if that's the crux of why most people are calling jcgamer garbage.
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Dels posted...

finding one person to blame here seems impossible

How about the person who (almost certainly) did the abusing?
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i mean the first issue with the accusation is that it's just that, an accusation. not knowing his side of things is a problem mob justice has since you can't really account for what actually happened and end up just having very skewered opinion. should be especially cautious when dealing with someone who is a known abuser herself.

that said, ain't her fault he offed himself. yeah, she knows how mob mentality works, it ain't the first time she's used it to her favor or attack people. yeah, she's not a good person and has been the abusive person in a relationship before. but unless she had a direct hand in it or there's evidence of her manipulating him in some way, his suicide is not her issue. i don't particularly have issue with people being satisfied or happy with someone's death if they're a terrible person either, though the issue there is that you've just go a one sided story to go off of. no counter-claims, no major details verified, so it's kind of a crapshoot. add in the source, a dubious one. if true, good that she's out with the story, regardless of consequence.
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"zoe quinn strikes again" is a really tasteless topic title, it's like she's been painted as a serial killer or something

am i a fan? no. do i think she's responsible for this dude's suicide? absolutely not, he was very clearly mentally unstable already. i'm not going to celebrate his death but it's very inappropriate to blame zoe quinn.
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this is the worst topic I've ever seen
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iiicon posted...

Dels posted...

finding one person to blame here seems impossible

and yet they found one. weird! wonder if that's the crux of why most people are calling jcgamer garbage.

I don't think someone is garbage though for having a wrong or bad opinion. =/ a lot of people think zoe quinn is a bad person. if you think that's wrong, surely not every person who feels that way is irredeemable. that's how i see it. i could be naive.