Board 8 > Official Villain Ranking: MCU Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

Reasoning provided upon request.

1) Hela
2) Alexander Pierce
3) Mysterio
4) Thanos
5) Yon-Rogg
6) Justin Hammer
7) Loki
8) Obadiah Stane
9) Vulture
10) Dormammu
11) Helmut Zemo
12) Killmonger
13) Sonny Burch
14) Ronan
15) Aldrich Killian
16) Red Skull
17) Yellowjacket
18) Kaecilius
19) Ghost
20) Klaw
21) Abomination
22) Ego
23) Malekith
24) Ultron
25) Whiplash

Bonus ranking: Howard Stark is the true #1.

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Mysterio
Killmonger
Thanos
Ego
Ultron
Dormammu
Vulture
Loki
Hela
Abomination
Justin Hammer
Obadiah Stane
Red Skull
Kaecillius
Alexander Pierce
Whiplash
Klaw
Yon-Rogg
Ghost
Helmut Zemo
Ronan
Killian
Yellowjacket
Sonny Burch
Malekith
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Liking Ultron is not getting Ultron.

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So is Loki that low because of being diluted by overexposure? Like if it's just Avengers Loki does he do better.
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7th is not low at all. He's above the single most influential villain in comic book films.

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Needs more AIDA.
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Skipping the shows that aren't acknowledged anymore as MCU thanks to the preferred children of Disney+ coming into existence.

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Explain why Malekith isn't last.
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If only Ghost Rider was going to Disney+ instead of Hulu...

(well not really, Hulu is most definitely the better fit but for this specific point...!)
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Pierce in 2nd confused me. I actually had to Google him. What makes him appeal to you?
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How about another way why the love for Yon-Rogg and Justin Hammer
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Great: Loki, Vulture

Good: Ego, Killmonger, Hela (on thinking about it more, not Dormammu, because his one memorable scene would have been about as good with any other villain in his place)

The Rest: The Rest

I haven't seen Far From Home.
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Ego feels low
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Anagram posted...

Explain why Malekith isn't last.

Ultron is a character that actively represents terrible writing by claiming that he despises human emotions. He gasps, chuckles, makes jokes, acts surprised. He is a perfect example of failing to maintain consistency from one scene to the next. Even his death is extremely human in terms of comedy. The premise of Ultron deserved at least an attention to basic detail.

Whiplash is the singular worst performance in all of the MCU. There's a mess of a non-character written into a script where someone is phoning in a cheesy villain. It's a villain from 1990 in a 2010 film.

Malekith is just boring and forgettable. He is not actively creating a negative impact on his film.

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StifledSilence posted...

Pierce in 2nd confused me. I actually had to Google him. What makes him appeal to you?

Pierce is a wonderful example of how to integrate an old school actor with a unique style and presence into a series without losing that essence to the overly processed production-by-committee that is Disney-Marvel. Redford has a genuine sense of realism to his presence, and the concept of Pierce gives some real depth to the long history of Marvel between the 40s and the present. You could easily dive into that time period and play with this macabre world of subterfuge. It's just an excellent burst of flavor, and in movies, those are the characters that appeal the most to me.

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Thanos > Loki > a bunch of other people > that forgettable douche from Civil War
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Lopen posted...

How about another way why the love for Yon-Rogg and Justin Hammer

Yon-Rogg is an example of how Jude Law is excellent. His villainous demeanor is just a barely restrained hatred. His facework is just excellent. Also, jobbing super-hard at the apex of a comic book moment is special in this situation. It reaffirms for me that the unpredictable nature of comic books still exists in the MCU. Also, phenomenal costuming design.

Justin Hammer is a personal favorite of mine. A good businessman is hard to find in comic book movies. And Sam Rockwall, for me, felt like a character who could play a more complex game of chess with Stark or maybe an Osborn or someone else depending on the era. I see a lot of potential in Hammer being the foil to a Tony Stark in terms of how he faced the adversity of a young Stark and went in the opposite direction since he lacked certain advantages Stark had.

In my mind, Hammer is a brilliant choice to run, say, the Thunderbolts.

Loki, to me, has been slowly processed into something less than a villain. He's a little tamed for human consumption. Defanged enough to lack the true burst of flavor that makes me yearn for more.

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PrinceKaro posted...

Thanos > Loki > a bunch of other people > that forgettable douche from Civil War

Civil War stands as a severly overrated movie, and Daniel Bruhl could not save the character's hackneyed motivation and egregiously simplistic plan.

BUT... Daniel Bruhl is a fantastic, underrated actor, and I would definitely bring him back on an apology tour to give that character some real oomph.

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Why is Hela on top? I like her, but she didn't seem #1 material to me.
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Underleveled posted...

Ego feels low

As a comic book reader, I very rarely ask for movies to stick closely to the comics. But I do demand that characters are at least faithful in spirit to the character in the comics. Ego so totally misses the mark of Ego by trying to be quirky and to swerve comic book readers with a complete departure from comics. Mysterio was a great swerve. Ego is an example of a bad swerve because it wastes the potential of Ego. And the comics Ego would have been a PERFECT for the Guardians.

Russell does a decent job with his material, but it's not the performance with which I take umbrage.

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Anagram posted...

Why is Hela on top? I like her, but she didn't seem #1 material to me.

Hela is a perfect example of a hybridization of a phenomenal design, a phenomenal back catalog of character material and an actress who gives it the weight and gravity it deserves. There is no bad Hela scene. There is no superfluous Hela scene. Blanchett absolutely captivates in the role, and Waititi sees where the character excels. Blanchett is absolutely the most striking figure in the entire MCU. No one else comes close to capturing that unbridled, primal rage, that killer stare, that Cate does. It's fantastic. The only complaint I have is that she was killed off. A complete and utter waste. We could have dined out on multiple films featuring her conquered Asgard and the warped, undead minions within. Or a trip to Hel itself could have provided an spurned and defeated Hela with the opportunity to steal happiness from her brothers once more. All I see with Hela is tons of additional potential. The character herself is such a perfect embodiment of the Norse myth AND the comic. She really stands out as a timeless, iconic godlike figure.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

He's above the single most influential villain in comic book films.

Okay I'll bite who is this
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Honestly though this list is just reminding how little I remember about MCU villains. I've seen all the movies, but I still have to google over half the list, and even then I still draw blanks or don't remember what they actually did.

Good:
Hela
Mysterio
Thanos
Loki
Vulture
Killmonger
Ghost
Ego

Neutral:
Yon-Rogg
Yellowjacket
Klaw

Bad:
Ultron

I Don't Remember:
Alexander Pierce
Justin Hammer
Obadiah Stane
Dormammu
Helmut Zemo
Sonny Burch
Ronan
Aldrich Killian
Red Skull
Kaecilius
Abomination
Malekith
Whiplash

(not ranked inside the tiers, I just went down scarlet's list and slotted them into these few tiers)
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Lopen posted...

Okay I'll bite who is this

Obadiah Stane defines everything about the MCU.

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Here goes nothing

Thanos
Vulture
Alexander Pierce
Mysterio
Justin Hammer
Loki
Killmonger
Sonny Burch
Helmut Zemo
Dormammu
Red Skull
Klaw
Ego
Obadiah Stane
Ghost
Hela
Ronan
Yon-Rogg
Whiplash
Ultron
Yellowjacket
Malekith
Aldrich Killian
Kaecilius
Abomination

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Yeah? I may have guessed him just cause he's the villain of Iron Man but I don't really see it.
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Snake5555555555 posted...

Alexander Pierce

My man.

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Pierce is quite good you'll note I did not question him!
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Lopen posted...

Yeah? I may have guessed him just cause he's the villain of Iron Man but I don't really see it.

Obadiah Stane is played by a heavyweight actor who can command some heft to lines that could otherwise play as ridiculous and stupid with a less talented player. Stane is defined like every other villain - ultimately brought down by one of the base 7 Deadly Sins. Especially in origin films, a villain has a strong bond with the hero that is shattered or a revelation shatters the illusion of that bond. Stane also plays the Use Your Own Strength Against You card, something dropped into nearly every MCU film. I call these villains Post-Singer Marvel villains, and I think you can trace also sorts of consistent storytelling devices in the MCU to the original Iron Man. We wouldn't have any origin film without Obadiah Stane.

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Ok, Ill bite.

Why Howard Stark?
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Also, why is Civil War overrated?
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redrocket posted...

Ok, Ill bite.

Why Howard Stark?

Howard Stark's failure to prevent HYDRA's machinations thanks to his reckless lifestyle led to a Bucky's miserable life. He is also directly responsible for siring the worst child in the history of the universe, one that directly or indirectly led to the modern events of every MCU film. Tony's poor parentage and daddy issues created a track record of bad behavior and on-again-off-again cowboy superheroics that created almost every MCU villain or motivation for a villain. To top it off, Howard Stark mistreated Hank Pym, and we could all be giant crimefighters if he hadn't shrugged off Michael Douglas.

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Don't forget how Howard Stark is unable to recognize Captain America standing ten feet away because he was wearing a hat.
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redrocket posted...

Also, why is Civil War overrated?

Once again, very rarely do I think a comic needs close adaptation, but Civil War? It was a five minute argument in an airport parking lot. I've been to more vicious Thanksgiving dinners. I don't buy for a second the level of unforgiveable animosity between the characters. There was no logic connection between most of the actions and the motivations behind them. Handwaving everything at the end with a clear black-and-white villain so dumb filmgoers don't have to strain themselves considering ethics and morality makes everything even more egregious.

Also, it is the one Marvel movie that makes the universe smaller rather than bigger.

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Anagram posted...

Don't forget how Howard Stark is unable to recognize Captain America standing ten feet away because he was wearing a hat.

A perfect example of how Stark's reckless lifestyle leaves him impaired and unfit to exist in the real world.

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Great
1. Loki
2. Hela
3. Alexander Pierce
4. Killmonger

Good
5. Obadiah Stane
6. Thanos
7. Vulture

Inoffensive but not great
8. Red Skull
9. Ego (I don't know enough of the source to be offended performance is good)
10. Yon-Rogg
11. Dormammu
12. Helmut Zemo
13. Ronan
14. Yellowjacket
15. Klaw

Bad
16. Kaecilius
17. Malekith
18. Abomination
19. Whiplash
20. Ultron

Completely unmemorable to me so no ranking maybe I should rewatch Iron Man 2 and 3
Justin Hammer
Aldrich Killian

Haven't seen but prob top tier cause I love Mysterio. Oh also antman and wasp
Mysterio
Sonny Burch
Ghost
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My Dormammu ranking is purely based on my comics love for the guy and the excellent design. Also, pretty strong rankings.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

I don't buy for a second the level of unforgiveable animosity between the characters.

To be fair I think the only ones that are intended to have real animosity are Iron Man and Cap and it's only at the end way after the parking lot due to Bucky being caught on candid camera. Otherwise it's kinda just ideals clashing but not really an intended death feud.

Civil War in the comics is heavier, but it also has a lot more buildup to make it work. I think the movie works okay as a standalone given the limitations of not wanting to make several movies for it.
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Sonny Burch is pretty much auto-great because he's played by Walton Goggins.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

redrocket posted...

Also, why is Civil War overrated?

Once again, very rarely do I think a comic needs close adaptation, but Civil War? It was a five minute argument in an airport parking lot. I've been to more vicious Thanksgiving dinners. I don't buy for a second the level of unforgiveable animosity between the characters. There was no logic connection between most of the actions and the motivations behind them. Handwaving everything at the end with a clear black-and-white villain so dumb filmgoers don't have to strain themselves considering ethics and morality makes everything even more egregious.

Also, it is the one Marvel movie that makes the universe smaller rather than bigger.

I mean, I really like the final confrontation with Tony, Steve, and Bucky. I think thats one of the best emotional moments in the MCU. So personally I always thought the rest of the movie was worth that payoff.
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Lopen posted...

Civil War in the comics is heavier, but it also has a lot more buildup to make it work. I think the movie works okay as a standalone given the limitations of not wanting to make several movies for it.

My response to this is quite simple: you had, at the time, multiple MCU shows and the ability to have two bookended films Captain America: Civil War and Iron Man: Civil War. I think a story can be deserving of two films, this is definitely one of those times. Removing the complexity from Civil War is completely defanging everything that could be good about the story.

In fact, the setup and the "Whose Side are YOU on?" aspect is something that deserved months of fan arguing before the resolution. And with some mentions in Daredevil, Iron Fist, SHIELD, etc., it would have been a pretty excellent translation to the current real world two-sided zeitgeist.

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redrocket posted...

I mean, I really like the final confrontation with Tony, Steve, and Bucky. I think thats one of the best emotional moments in the MCU. So personally I always thought the rest of the movie was worth that payoff.

Bucky is actually my least favorite MCU film superhero. I have no attachment to the character and think he's a whiny bitch-boy. Get over yourself, Shadow the Hedgehog.

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Well, thats certainly a take all right.
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I mean, that final scene was all about Tony and Steve anyway. Bucky was just a prop.
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And by "okay" I mean really well. Civil War is one of my favorites.

I think maybe if it weren't called Civil War you wouldn't be as harsh on it-- I think the story it tells works, just not really the same as the comic story in terms of scope and depth and whatnot so it leaves a purist wanting because of what could have been.

I do agree that if you gave it multiple movies and a bunch of Netflix tie ins and stuff it could have been something really special if done right (though Fox had X-Men and Fantastic Four so you're losing key players regardless) but I think for what it is it's good. Like if you think of it less as Civil War and more "reason for Iron Man and Captain America to have a gang war with some slight moral ambiguity and some lingering animosity at the end" it works. I don't think it feels rushed for the story it's telling. Whether that's Civil War or not well that's another point but you know.
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I feel put-upon when I listen to him whine. It's a chore to me. You get to live in the 21st century. Enjoy it. Hell, you even Blipped five years further ahead. Your life is #blessed.

Bucky is the Red Hood of Marvel and he debuted after the Red Hood did, pretty much as a direct response. And both of them suck for the same reasons. They are the same character in different colors.

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I think killmonger is my favorite, I wish they kept him around
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Lopen posted...

I think maybe if it weren't called Civil War you wouldn't be as harsh on it-- I think the story it tells works, just not really the same as the comic story in terms of scope and depth and whatnot so it leaves a purist wanting because of what could have been.

Yeah, that's why I opened with the line I did. Some things, when you invoke the name, require you to actually live up to it in some way. And this is from a guy who generally loves the risk taking in adaptations. My favorite Harry Potter is the 3rd film primarily because the departures it makes only serve to crystallize what makes the essence of that story so great. But there are times where, if you can't improve upon something with a difference, then you should steer away from the comparison.

Lopen posted...

(though Fox had X-Men and Fantastic Four so you're losing key players regardless)

Luckily, in Civil War, the X-Men and Fantastic Four were relegated to super-minor side stories that left them fairly irrelevant to the story.

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Red Skull too low.

Maybe that's just me, but I feel he does the role of "villain" better than anyone.

Loki in Thor 2 was his best time as a villain.

Thanos in Infinity War >>>>> Thanos in Endgame.
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ScareChan posted...

I think killmonger is my favorite, I wish they kept him around

Marvel's biggest sin is killing off villains. The reason comics are great is because of the storied continuity that gives the world depth. A super-minor villain like a Count Vertigo is such a wonderful, textured thread in a grand tapestry because of years of appearances, and the interactions the characters have with one another build on each other in often surprising and wonderful ways.

Killmonger is a character that is more interesting in a second movie. He's got the potential for a lot of depth, but it's left unrealized in some ways because there's a time limit on the movie, and we have to shoehorn in a boring romantic angle and give Panther his own opportunity to come to terms with his own role in Wakanda.

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