Board 8 > Godzilla Mafia signups (Proper topic)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Also now I need 5tarscream again, lol.

Sorry to see you go Inception
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Could you people get over your egos for 30 fucking seconds

we have a new game to play
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Hbthebattle posted...

Could you people get over your egos for 30 fucking seconds

we have a new game to play

Um. You're aware that several of the people here are basically ALL ego, right? Please don't wish us out of existence.

htaeD posted...

Also now I need 5tarscream again, lol.

Sorry to see you go Inception

Sorry for dropping out. I appreciate the effort you are putting into this.
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htaeD posted...

Can we please not discourage players before the game even begins.

I mean, they are just discussing a game. And this is a discussion board. Iol
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Hbthebattle posted...

Could you people get over your egos for 30 fucking seconds

we have a new game to play

You might say the discussion is circular or I guess you could even make an argument of it being irrelevant if you wanted (one that I'd disagree with) but this seems like a hypersensitive overreaction to a discussion which has by any measure been relatively civil.

Though I have to concede to Lopen's point about it just being cool to make him the bad guy after Scare chimed in basically for the sole purpose of saying "Lopen SUCKS LOL"

But even that I think was jovial in nature

Like I played that game for a goddamn month I think it's ok if I have more than 10 posts worth of things to say about it.

turbopuns3 posted...

Hbthebattle posted...

Could you people get over your egos for 30 fucking seconds

we have a new game to play

You might say the discussion is circular or I guess you could even make an argument of it being irrelevant if you wanted (one that I'd disagree with) but this seems like a hypersensitive overreaction to a discussion which has by any measure been relatively civil.

Though I have to concede to Lopen's point about it just being cool to make him the bad guy after Scare chimed in basically for the sole purpose of saying "Lopen SUCKS LOL"

But even that I think was jovial in nature

The point where players are dropping out because of the arguments in the signup topic is also the point where it's time to stop
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True, and I also should have faith in the others still wanting to play.

Btw Puns, you were not available?
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To be fair Inception would see the same kind of talk in the game
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Thanks for the invite but I'm much more preoccupied with work to get online these days.
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Pirate_Harris posted...

Thanks for the invite but I'm much more preoccupied with work to get online these days.

Okay, Pirate! Nice seeing ya around at least!
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htaeD posted...

To be fair Inception would see the same kind of talk in the game

^

htaeD posted...

Btw Puns, you were not available?

It is best if I take a break

I can understand that. Hope you will watch from time to time tho!
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Confirming I can still play.
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People who don't understand why people have heated discussions post game will never be great at mafia, by the way.

Harsh reality that I am sure many will disagree with.
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I'm way too relaxed to get heated over Mafia. Whatever happens happens and it's all good.
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The real mafia were the friends we pissed off along the way
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Lol.
Okay

5tarscream might still not be up to return

So I will ask @DoubleTangicide and @MZero11 or @masterplum if they wanna take his spot.
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Still think Camarija and Fire_Bolt would get along wonderfully.
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I'll stop

Still love lopen anyways

Have fun
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

People who don't understand why people have heated discussions post game will never be great at mafia, by the way.

Harsh reality that I am sure many will disagree with.

I disagree because I think it's possible to have a discussion that's both properly critical and reflective of one's own play while still not being heated. Comes down mostly to the particular player's ability to accept and act on criticism though, so yeah it's probably impossible for like 3/4 of anybody who will ever play mafia.

I'm not sure I'm "heated" I just think the game is being fundamentally misrepresented. I'd do the same thing if someone said puns lost town the game too cause I mean there was a lot more at work there.

Really the fundamental issue was that Puns + Ulti + SBell caused an inevitability in the final 3-4 in that it was going to be SBell or the 4th person being lynched without some risky, and more importantly correct, play from the 4th person. And it would be difficult for anyone to determine who the right scum of those three was because the overly safe way town was playing was not a way that was able to generate pressure on Ulti or Puns to slip easily.
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Lopen posted...

I'm not sure I'm "heated" I just think the game is being fundamentally misrepresented.

I think we have several people chiming in to say their own bit, except the bits are all only tangentially related so we're kind of dancing around a general idea, not necessarily having a two-sided debate.

Like the topic flows from being Lopen vs. A to Lopen vs. B to Lopen vs. C to Lopen vs. D and at every point A, B, C, and D are saying slightly different things but there's an illusion it's "the whole group" vs. Lopen when really it's just "everyone individually disagrees with Lopen about something".

But yeah I wouldn't call it heated, either. I don't see any all caps or exclamation points or insults or nasty language.

Lopen posted...

the fundamental issue was that Puns + Ulti + SBell caused an inevitability in the final 3-4 in that it was going to be SBell or the 4th person being lynched

There were ways for me to lynch Ulti. By the end I was talking about how he called Ben's scum list "too accurate" on day 3 which suggested information, and his final argument against Lopen did feel very contrived. Problem was it was too late for me to really care because I could see the light at the end of the tunnel to the game being over and I just smashed the eject button.

Perhaps, the best way to break up the inevitability you speak, was not to just choose one of the three and spearhead them with blinders on, and after it failed spearhead another with blinders on. Eh? Maybe encouraging a more open discussion which asked the players to all take a good look at the others would have been more effective and less detrimental.

I will say that I did get something out of the discussion even if I disagree with the narrative:

If you think the day is gonna be wasted cause you feel a player is scum and pulling something but no one else is buying it and it'll resolve itself anyway, just moving on and doing some analysis as though they're telling the truth is probably best. Arguing about it ain't gonna cause a slip cause the reaction of "you're crazy" is gonna be the same across town or scum pretending to be town. No useful data to be gathered by arguing it even if you're right-- it's just trying to prove you're right at that point.
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turbopuns3 posted...

was not to just choose one of the three and spearhead them with blinders on, and after it failed spearhead another with blinders on. Eh?

I don't agree I had blinders on. You guys had reactions that made it very hard to just abandon the attack. The fact that I stayed on neither guess till the end showed I was able to reevaluate and not be blind about it. The big problem is you guys were using language that called me "scum" (in your case) and "obvious scum the whole game" (in SBell's case) neither of which were believable given the play you guys had exhibited until that point. I would say this is probably just bad habits coming to roost. "Wrong" and "scum" should not be used interchangeably, and it gave both of you the look of thrashing scum more than town I had guessed wrong on, to me.

Ultimately I don't think those plays were mistakes, just the guesses were. You can say the execution was dodgy but I'm not sure other ways work better-- you can say they would but it's just as easy to imagine a world where I go a bit less hard and it's like "oh Lopen is just trying to spread suspicion on everyone. LYNCH" All I know is a play had to be made and I made it. *shrug
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So I reflected on something else Lopen said. He doesn't think Red is a good player. I disagree. Now I can't speak for his town play. It's been so long since I've seen it. But I think he's very solid scum player. Maybe less so in topic trying to hide as town. But that's only part of the game as scum.

In WWE, he correctly pegged Ulti as a vanilla, despite the flavor suggesting Ulti should be some form of power.

In this past game, Red was the first one to figure out we had to kill Tom before he could confirm people. He was invaluable as we discussed the order in which to make our kills.

I modeled my scum play off of his. I took some liberties. I have no problems with soft bussing for example. But I played while lurking as town. I made sure I "went to bed early" one night for example. I was actively trying to find reasons not to talk, while maintaining an activity level that couldn't be questioned. My content could for sure. But Tom was always my most important pocket. So I had to focus on him.

My point is that Reds play as scum is very strong even if you don't always see it in the topics as town.

Lopen posted...

I don't agree I had blinders on. You guys had reactions that made it very hard to just abandon the attack.

When I say blinders I don't mean permanent. 36 hours of focusing a guy is enough to warrant saying blinders. But nonetheless, my point was even making the attack in the first place was what I was calling into question, not whether or not you were justified in suspecting me. You said earlier "if I picked Ulti I'd be a hero", and like - obviously. Maybe the issue is you feeling like you needed to play the hero.

DrPez posted...

But I think he's very solid scum player.

No. Just no.
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DrPez posted...

I modeled my scum play off of his. I took some liberties. I have no problems with soft bussing for example. But I played while lurking as town. I made sure I "went to bed early" one night for example. I was actively trying to find reasons not to talk, while maintaining an activity level that couldn't be questioned. My content could for sure. But Tom was always my most important pocket. So I had to focus on him.

My point is that Reds play as scum is very strong even if you don't always see it in the topics as town.

This is just bad scum play ur trying to emulate itself. Like... = /

And, no, red's scum play leaves a ton to be desired.
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turbopuns3 posted...

Maybe the issue is you feeling like you needed to play the hero.

I think it was justified. The path of the game was obvious and the fact that no one was going to rock the boat was obvious. I tried disrupting the path in more traditional ways at 3 and 4 days from the end and it didn't work.

I called every lynch from Lea till endgame at Lea with the possible exception of getting Cam/Lea in the wrong order (p sure I just grouped them). And I did that in topic as well so you can't say I am just making this up.
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Also yeah Tom being "your pocket" was imo your main scumslip as time went on. Making excuses for inactivity is what most of what red got caught on too. Like I don't think those are good scumplay models to go for.
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That's fine - I don't disagree that action was needed. The part I care about is that when you look back at the fact of what happened you can realize for future that there were better ways to influence town's perspective.

(and specifically, ways to avoid negatively influencing town's perspective)

turbopuns3 posted...

(and specifically, ways to avoid negatively influencing town's perspective)

I just think it's harder to do that than you think while still convincing people, particularly when there's a triangle of trust where one is likely the scum in that triangle. Like it's not really as simple as not trying to destroy someone with a flaming sword because that approach had already been tried to no avail earlier. That town would not be convinced to avoid the safe lynches

I think doubting Ben was the major misplay and everything beyond that was just trying to damage control the credibility I had lost
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Lopen posted...

Also yeah Tom being "your pocket" was imo your main scumslip as time went on. Making excuses for inactivity is what most of what red got caught on too. Like I don't think those are good scumplay models to go for.

I don't survive if I don't pocket Tom. I went a bit overboard on it maybe. But I don't think it went too far until I tried to get Lolo lynched. And I knew that was a gamble.

As for my inactivity, I was active and still found reasons to not be present. It wasn't the same as Red did at Disney. I tempered that.

I did scumhunt, Lopen just forgot because I dropped it D4 in favor of not giving town anything to read me on. My big post about Tom d3 when Cam revealed he was Voldemort was me scumhunting. Because the lynch on Tom was stupid. The problem was the scum on that lunch was Ulti. I was always planning on that leading towards a Lopen vote though. It just didn't materialize because of other circumstances.

yikes
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Corrik7 posted...

And, no, red's scum play leaves a ton to be desired.

I think he can improve in topic. But I don't think he's especially bad in topic either. I think his night actions are good. And his analysis was key. Those last two don't show up in topic.

Lopen posted...

I just think it's harder to do that than you think while still convincing people

Alright, well it is only a suggestion after all

Corrik7 posted...

And, no, red's scum play leaves a ton to be desired.

I'm rusty as scum. Its been complicated these last two times that the first I was literally at Disney World and the second I had to work during peak hours. That makes having meaningful impact tough because you miss so much of the game.

I think my night instincts are still pretty good though. But the scumplay rust is real. I definitely played better last game in a loss once my Disney World trip was over/winding down than I did this game in a win.
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I'm just saying I did kinda do what you suggested on the days we lynched Lea and Cam and I won neither lynch so I mean I'm not sure trying it again is smart
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Frankly I don't remember anything you said on either of those days. I'm just talking about the final 2 days

If I tried that the final 2 days you probably wouldn't remember anything I said there either tbh
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every time an update comes, I hope that its someone signing up
:(
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Ok lopen, you're right about everything. You have a 6th sense by which you can predict the outcomes of all hypothetical scenarios with incredible accuracy, clearly. Oh wait that can't be true because we lost. Hm something about that doesn't quite add up, almost like you aren't all-knowing...

:D

Anyway with that one I'm definitely done now lol have fun with your next game guys

Augh
We could start tomorrow Lea!
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

yikes

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