Poll of the Day > Do you approve of elizabeth warren's plan for student loan debt forgiveness?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The_tall_midget posted...

How quaint. The typical board Marxists are still crying about how the system is unfair and rich people are out to get them.

We obviously need more safe spaces.

Classic Louis

Id be fine with it. I know lots of people that just skipped college because they didnt want to be in debt. Some are doing ok. Some even better. I think be able to gain higher education without possibly ruining you financially would be a good thing, I think...
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The_tall_midget posted...

Except for the part where it is quite obvious and documented that most colleges have become sjw and liberal shit holes that all deserve to be cleansed of the leftist pathogen.

Oh yeah, we do know that your idiotic brand of socialism has been tried before... and it failed miserably every single time it's been tried. What does an insignificant person like you bring to the table again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

See that top ten?

All Bernie Sanders style governments. Very ignorant of you to call them failed or Socialist countries.
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No, because I paid my own way through college, like an adult. The only way I'd approve student loan forgiveness would be if we erased ALL subsidies to colleges, both direct funding and indirect funding like loans.
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Lorthremar posted...

_AdjI_ posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

Mead posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

The_tall_midget posted...

Yellow posted...

Instead I'm arguing with people who think the lower class consists of sjw pink haired girls, and are stuck on that line of thought.

So we have to be leaders and visionaries, and find ways to make it work. Like Euuurope. Or throw a tantrum and demand that we can never do it

Except for the part where it is quite obvious and documented that most colleges have become sjw and liberal shit holes that all deserve to be cleansed of the leftist pathogen.

Oh yeah, we do know that your idiotic brand of socialism has been tried before... and it failed miserably every single time it's been tried. What does an insignificant person like you bring to the table again?

I always wonder what people are thinking when they make blatantly false statements like this.

He saw something on the internet, that makes it a fact

People generally don't do cries for a form of genocide because they read something on the internet.

Yes, but we've never been given much cause to believe this fellow is particularly sane.

I've never read his posts before this thread and holy shit he's fucking nuts

Hes got a few other alts that he uses on the board and hes always pissed off fresh off of some deep alt right shit he heard about on breitbart
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Zeus posted...

No, because I paid my own way through college, like an adult. The only way I'd approve student loan forgiveness would be if we erased ALL subsidies to colleges, both direct funding and indirect funding like loans.

Yeah, but at your age when you went to university it was more affordable.

I don't mind them being dischargeable in bankruptcy.

No.

I'd be ok with some moderate forms of relief. Like letting people refinance their loans to a lower interest rate. Maybe reducing the interest owed in return for some length of community service or something. But the principle definitely has to be repaid in full. Not giving literal handouts to those who made poor financial decisions.

But I have faith in their ideas never passing Congress so long as Republicans have enough Senators to filibuster the bill, so I'm willing to overlook my disagreement on that issue and vote for them anyway. I'm fine w/ their opening position being the extreme left (free college) and Republicans' continuing to hold an extreme right view (doing nothing...actually...cutting Pell grants and such so worse than doing nothing), and that leading to some sort of compromise in the middle.

There would have to be conditions. Being retroactive (while accounting for inflation) would be a start.
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A good start for university reform which includes full loan forgiveness as opposed to Warren's measly $50,000 loan forgiveness (Pardon the botched topic title though)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/3-poll-of-the-day/77723065
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The_tall_midget posted...

How quaint. The typical board Marxists are still crying about how the system is unfair and rich people are out to get them.

We obviously need more safe spaces.

This is a guy who asks for people who disagree with him to be "cleansed" and accuses them of wanting a safe space.

CarrieChan posted...

I don't mind them being dischargeable in bankruptcy.

So basically you don't mind bankrupting the entire university system along with multiple major lenders and triggering a national recession? Wow, that's evil!
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Zeus posted...

So basically you don't mind bankrupting [...] multiple major lenders

sounds good to me
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Zeus posted...

CarrieChan posted...

I don't mind them being dischargeable in bankruptcy.

So basically you don't mind bankrupting the entire university system along with multiple major lenders and triggering a national recession? Wow, that's evil!

The current loans, which were given out under the assumption that they couldn't be escaped via bankruptcy, should remain that way.

Going forward, all future loans should be dis-chargeable in bankruptcy, like they used to be. That will mean the amounts a student can get will be much lower. That's hardly a bad thing.
Obscene loan amounts with no basis of a student being capable of paying it back is a root cause of the current problems.

Zeus, what year did you graduate university?

CarrieChan posted...

I don't mind them being dischargeable in bankruptcy.

As far as I know it's technically possible, but a lot harder to do.

(I know someone who had to file bankruptcy due to student loans, and was told getting student loans wiped was hard but not impossible. As far as I'm aware they got their student loans wiped, but their amazing credit wiped along with them of course. Yeah, feels really bad when someone with a fairly decent paying job for the area wipes an over 700 credit score because student loans. The kicker is financial aid was lowered while they were in school and they never even got to finish because the cut was unexpected and they didn't have the remainder to pay at the time.)

streamofthesky posted...

Going forward, all future loans should be dis-chargeable in bankruptcy, like they used to be. That will mean the amounts a student can get will be much lower. That's hardly a bad thing.

The reason why you can take out very high student loans is because plenty of capable students aren't born in to money. What you're proposing is further increasing wealth divides.
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Zeus posted...

CarrieChan posted...

I don't mind them being dischargeable in bankruptcy.

So basically you don't mind bankrupting the entire university system along with multiple major lenders and triggering a national recession? Wow, that's evil!

It is just delaying the inevitable. If the loans are that bad they will need to be written off eventually. If not now, maybe 10 years, or when those students die. Better to get it over with sooner than later so they can move on with their lives and actually be productive instead of having the bad debt linger for a good chunk of their lives.

TheWitchMorgana posted...

Zeus posted...

So basically you don't mind bankrupting [...] multiple major lenders

sounds good to me

Again, triggering a major recession?

Kyuubi4269 posted...

streamofthesky posted...

Going forward, all future loans should be dis-chargeable in bankruptcy, like they used to be. That will mean the amounts a student can get will be much lower. That's hardly a bad thing.

The reason why you can take out very high student loans is because plenty of capable students aren't born in to money. What you're proposing is further increasing wealth divides.

The whole system of high loans essentially perpetuates an unsustainable system. Instead of addressing issues that create unaffordability, it just kicks the can down the line.

CarrieChan posted...

Zeus posted...

CarrieChan posted...

I don't mind them being dischargeable in bankruptcy.

So basically you don't mind bankrupting the entire university system along with multiple major lenders and triggering a national recession? Wow, that's evil!

It is just delaying the inevitable. If the loans are that bad they will need to be written off eventually. If not now, maybe 10 years, or when those students die. Better to get it over with sooner than later so they can move on with their lives and actually be productive instead of having the bad debt linger for a good chunk of their lives.

No, they don't need to be written off. Not now, not ever. It's a needless action that would result in disastrous harm for the rest of the nation.
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You can't collect money from a dead person, unless you intend to enslave their descendants.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

streamofthesky posted...

Going forward, all future loans should be dis-chargeable in bankruptcy, like they used to be. That will mean the amounts a student can get will be much lower. That's hardly a bad thing.

The reason why you can take out very high student loans is because plenty of capable students aren't born in to money. What you're proposing is further increasing wealth divides.

It's a cycle.
Everyone can get loans, for absurd amounts.
More people go to college, even the ones who really shouldn't or don't need to.
More demand and a nigh limitless amount of debt credit from the prospective students lets colleges jack up prices.
Students have to take out more and more to cover the costs of the ballooning price of college.
And then...the amounts of debt are so fucking staggering that even if the student "does everything right" and gets a good paying job, s/he can be in debt for decades.

It's odd you cloak yourself in the mantle of not wanting to increase wealth divides...

CarrieChan posted...

You can't collect money from a dead person, unless you intend to enslave their descendants.

...you can collect money from their estate. Plus they can pay out up until that point, rather than just letting them walk away from it.
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Hey, ZEUS, what year did you graduate university?

Hey, CACCIATO, none of your damn business.
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Got it, because you wouldnt want us to determine your age and then go on and figure out why you say the things you say. Understood. Im at least glad you admit to it.

Someone who owes student loans at death, likely has nothing in their estate to pay out.

streamofthesky posted...

It's a cycle.
Everyone can get loans, for absurd amounts.
More people go to college, even the ones who really shouldn't or don't need to.
More demand and a nigh limitless amount of debt credit from the prospective students lets colleges jack up prices.
Students have to take out more and more to cover the costs of the ballooning price of college.
And then...the amounts of debt are so fucking staggering that even if the student "does everything right" and gets a good paying job, s/he can be in debt for decades.

It's a cycle.
The rich gets to take all the opportunities and soak up the costs.
The poor can't take up risk and stay in the shit.
Rich tells the poor "Get a $1M loan from daddy."

Student loan is taken out against earning potential after qualification. What you're proposing is that loans be taken out based on existing income which only benefits the wealthy.

All you've proven is that people don't know what degrees pay and loan companies don't know how to assess post-graduation value.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

streamofthesky posted...

It's a cycle.
Everyone can get loans, for absurd amounts.
More people go to college, even the ones who really shouldn't or don't need to.
More demand and a nigh limitless amount of debt credit from the prospective students lets colleges jack up prices.
Students have to take out more and more to cover the costs of the ballooning price of college.
And then...the amounts of debt are so fucking staggering that even if the student "does everything right" and gets a good paying job, s/he can be in debt for decades.

It's a cycle.
The rich gets to take all the opportunities and soak up the costs.
The poor can't take up risk and stay in the shit.
Rich tells the poor "Get a $1M loan from daddy."

Student loan is taken out against earning potential after qualification. What you're proposing is that loans be taken out based on existing income which only benefits the wealthy.

All you've proven is that people don't know what degrees pay and loan companies don't know how to assess post-graduation value.

Or people could just like...go to cheaper schools. Pick schools based on value, and not on how incredible the grounds and facilities are kept.
State colleges should get more funding to subsidize in state students, that has slipped over the last few decades. But they and community college still aren't nearly as pricey as private colleges.
There are scholarships for the extremely gifted students without a lot of money to go to the prestigious schools.

streamofthesky posted...

Or people could just like...go to cheaper schools. Pick schools based on value, and not on how incredible the grounds and facilities are kept.
State colleges should get more funding to subsidize in state students, that has slipped over the last few decades. But they and community college still aren't nearly as pricey as private colleges.
There are scholarships for the extremely gifted students without a lot of money to go to the prestigious schools.

Where you go to school is almost as valuable as what you learn, you earn more, and so can take out more, with a most prestigious degree.

Once again, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
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Zeus posted...

CarrieChan posted...

I don't mind them being dischargeable in bankruptcy.

So basically you don't mind bankrupting the entire university system along with multiple major lenders and triggering a national recession? Wow, that's evil!

Implying that it isn't going to happen at some point anyway ?

With the way tuitions keep hiking and people keep failing to find jobs that pay them back you know that the only way out of this hole so many people are in is government intervention. The main problem being that getting a college degree is a prerequisite for a lot of jobs so people have to go out and get in debt just to be able to try to fail to get a job. That's not even considering just how hard our society pushes going to college without a clear plan on what to do with the degree. People are simply told that going to college gets you a job because that is what everyone told them. Try to suggest someone doesnt need to go to college and you will get a lot of resistance. Basically everything is set up in such a way right now that this problem is going to continue to get worse until it basically blows up. The right just hates doing anything about anything until its beyond repair while the left tries to do something about it ahead of time.

The only thing all the conservative people are arguing against is whether we do something to prevent a recession (which may cause one anyway) or after the current education economic bubble pops and we get a pretty nasty one with another series of bank bailouts.
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If it's a field with a shortage of manpower, have grade requirements and fund the tuition publicly when appropriate. It's about the greatness of a nation, not the greatness of individuals.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

streamofthesky posted...

Or people could just like...go to cheaper schools. Pick schools based on value, and not on how incredible the grounds and facilities are kept.
State colleges should get more funding to subsidize in state students, that has slipped over the last few decades. But they and community college still aren't nearly as pricey as private colleges.
There are scholarships for the extremely gifted students without a lot of money to go to the prestigious schools.

Where you go to school is almost as valuable as what you learn, you earn more, and so can take out more, with a most prestigious degree.

Once again, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

I agree. It's nice to be talking to someone willing to drop the whole facade that the "elite" schools can't provide nicer books or knowledge than a public school, and the real reason people seek to go to them is to make connections and network with rich, influential people, and have a nicer piece of paper to show to potential employers.

I opted for the state school and no debt, and probably hurt my employment prospects at least a little bit by doing so.

Someone else opts for the prestigious school and high debt, betting that it will be "worth it" later? Well, it sounds like they made their choice, just as I did.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

streamofthesky posted...

Going forward, all future loans should be dis-chargeable in bankruptcy, like they used to be. That will mean the amounts a student can get will be much lower. That's hardly a bad thing.

The reason why you can take out very high student loans is because plenty of capable students aren't born in to money. What you're proposing is further increasing wealth divides.

Actually, let's elaborate further on this. I said it didn't use to be this way, and...I was right. I even remembered the year it changed (2005), though I guess it's been a gradual degradation over four decades:

http://business.time.com/2012/02/09/why-cant-you-discharge-student-loans-in-bankruptcy/

Its kind of strange that credit cards are dischargeable when private student loans arent, said Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of the financial aid websites, Fastweb.com and FinAid.org. They should be treated the same.

They used to be. Before 1976, all education loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy. That year, the bankruptcy code was altered so loans made by the government or a non-profit college or university could not be discharged during the first five years of repayment. They could, however, be discharged if they had been in repayment for five years or if the borrower experienced undue hardship. Then, the Bankruptcy Amendments and Federal Judgeship Act of 1984 made it so all private student loans were excepted from discharge too.

Two decades of further tweaks to the bankruptcy code ensued until 2005, when Congress passed the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005, which made it so that no student loan federal or private could be discharged in bankruptcy unless the borrower can prove repaying the loan would cause undue hardship, a condition that is incredibly difficult to demonstrate unless the person has a severe disability. That essentially lumps student loan debt in with child support and criminal fines other types of debt that cant be discharged.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9803213

The Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act was enacted in 2005 to include private student loans as one of the 10 debts that can't be forgiven.

Robert Siegel talks with Stephen Burd, senior research fellow in the Education Policy Program at the New America Foundation, who says federal loans had long been included in this list, but private loans were included in 2005 because lenders had been reluctant to take on the risk of student loans.

Now that lenders have no risk, Burd says, student loans have become a very lucrative business.

The only reason huge loan amounts are given out w/o the usual requirements to qualify for said loans is because the law has been bastardized to make it debt that can't be escaped. Fueled by that limitless influx of money, colleges have been able to skyrocket their prices and still have plenty of buyers, who now need ever larger loans, and the cycle goes on.

I was right, and you're welcome.

streamofthesky posted...

The only reason huge loan amounts are given out w/o the usual requirements to qualify for said loans is because the law has been bastardized to make it debt that can't be escaped. Fueled by that limitless influx of money, colleges have been able to skyrocket their prices and still have plenty of buyers, who now need ever larger loans, and the cycle goes on.

I was right, and you're welcome.

There's a reason why student loans were made exempt from bankruptcy, because people were escaping their massive debts and you don't want to set up a situation where banks can't afford to give loans to students because they're an uncalculated risk as you end up with an uneducated population.

There's a balance to be found, but that ain't it.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

streamofthesky posted...

The only reason huge loan amounts are given out w/o the usual requirements to qualify for said loans is because the law has been bastardized to make it debt that can't be escaped. Fueled by that limitless influx of money, colleges have been able to skyrocket their prices and still have plenty of buyers, who now need ever larger loans, and the cycle goes on.

I was right, and you're welcome.

There's a reason why student loans were made exempt from bankruptcy, because people were escaping their massive debts and you don't want to set up a situation where banks can't afford to give loans to students because they're an uncalculated risk as you end up with an uneducated population.

There's a balance to be found, but that ain't it.

So student loans are omitted from bankruptcy cases in the UK?

CacciatoPart3 posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

streamofthesky posted...

The only reason huge loan amounts are given out w/o the usual requirements to qualify for said loans is because the law has been bastardized to make it debt that can't be escaped. Fueled by that limitless influx of money, colleges have been able to skyrocket their prices and still have plenty of buyers, who now need ever larger loans, and the cycle goes on.

I was right, and you're welcome.

There's a reason why student loans were made exempt from bankruptcy, because people were escaping their massive debts and you don't want to set up a situation where banks can't afford to give loans to students because they're an uncalculated risk as you end up with an uneducated population.

There's a balance to be found, but that ain't it.

So student loans are omitted from bankruptcy cases in the UK?

Universities have only been charging relatively recently and we've recently had a cap put in place, your measure hasn't been necessary or shaped the uni landscape the same way.

Every place has a different solution and different requirements.
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The_tall_midget posted...

How quaint. Ad Hominem

Strawman.

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I dont think college should necessarily be completely free, but for goodness sake, it should NOT be as unreasonably expensive as it is.

That kind of ruined my life. When I graduated from high school, money was pretty tight and my parents couldnt afford to send me to college, and we werent going to go into debt either because thats bullshit. So instead I got a job working at a local grocery store, which was fine for what it is (I got good benefits and always had a full schedule- aside from a few weeks here and there) but its also exhausting and a lot of physical work (fuck the people who say its only retail, its easy! they obviously have no clue) so I wore myself out and got a couple injuries that set me back quite a bit.

I know youre thinking well you could have just gotten another job but where I lived, there werent many places to work, at least places to make it worth leaving my job for.. back then was when the economy was pretty bad, I was in no position to give up steady work, benefits, etc. especially with no degree.

Its not all bad, Ive managed to get myself a nice apartment, Im not in debt, own my own car, etc. and now my union pays for college so I get to do that for free. But still, I cant help but wonder where Id be now if I had just been able to get an education right after high school (or at least before I got hurt)... not loving the idea of being like 34 when I graduate college.
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I agree that community college and state universities should be relatively affordable. Over the decades, states have cut funding to them to subsidize in-state students, and as a result they've raised in state tuition and tried to make more % of their student bodies be out of state students.
Definitely should raise taxes on higher incomes and (especially) capital gains and use that money to make in state options cheaper.
That's always been handled individually by each state rather than as a federal issue, though. So maybe that needs to change.

It should never be free, though. Then a) a lot of people don't about getting anything out of it b/c "whatever, it's free" and b) NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO OR EVEN SHOULD GO TO COLLEGE. A college degree (any degree) is already dangerously close to being the new high school diploma, some minimum educational accolade to have that is used as a quick weed-out. Some jobs just don't need it. Even the trades, you could go to a trade school and learn far more relevant info for your job than a full four year degree program.

Nope. Tons of people go to college just to get drunk and party, and then barely scrape by in their classes, or just don't even try in their classes.

I think college should be nearly free for people who are serious about it and make good grades. I live in Georgia, and they give the HOPE scholarship if you maintain over a 3.0, and I get the federal Pell grant just for being on the poorer side, so I don't have to pay anything for my 4 year degree. In fact, they give a refund, and I've been getting about $500 a semester, which helps pay for food and gas.

There should be more programs like that. I earn my money by being a good student and doing well in my classes. Jackasses shouldn't also get a free ride just to dick around.
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SirPikachu posted...

Nope. Tons of people go to college just to get drunk and party, and then barely scrape by in their classes, or just don't even try in their classes.

I think college should be nearly free for people who are serious about it and make good grades. I live in Georgia, and they give the HOPE scholarship if you maintain over a 3.0, and I get the federal Pell grant just for being on the poorer side, so I don't have to pay anything for my 4 year degree. In fact, they give a refund, and I've been getting about $500 a semester, which helps pay for food and gas.

There should be more programs like that. I earn my money by being a good student and doing well in my classes. Jackasses shouldn't also get a free ride just to dick around.

r/gatekeeping
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I mean, we're at a point where it is very difficult to get a decent job without a bachelor's degree, minimum and school is prohibitively expensive for most without taking on huge debt. People like to strawman it a lot "lol, maybe they shouldn't have taken gender studies!" and ignore that "useful" majors will still saddle students with decades worth of debt. Student loan forgiveness though is a band aid that doesn't fix the root problem: the skyrocketing cost of school and predatory student loans with high interest rates that can't even be disposed of with bankruptcy.

SirPikachu posted...

There should be more programs like that. I earn my money by being a good student and doing well in my classes. Jackasses shouldn't also get a free ride just to dick around.

High school is boring. When you can graduate based on tests alone, it's boring and not worth doing.

Half the time or more my teachers kept saying 'you already learned this in grade school, it's easy, there's no reason to do badly in this class'. So... Why so I have to do this again? BORING. x3

And the 'potential' speech. Stop saying that homework is to help study and then wonder why someone who never studies and gets high enough test scores to make up for not doing homework isn't doing homework. Didn't need to study guys.

They say 'if you can't get good grades here you can't make it through college'...except I've heard from a ton of people you can be late, take night classes, and a bunch of other things you couldn't do in high school and still do well.

I'm naturally nocturnal, I was running off of about 3 hours of sleep every school day. I was just fed up with high school, and since I didn't need to study and the homework was boring didn't do it. Still graduated. And 99% of what I learned... hasn't amounted to crap. x3

K-12 is mandatory, college is something you choose to do. That can make a HUGE difference too.

Mead posted...

SirPikachu posted...

Nope. Tons of people go to college just to get drunk and party, and then barely scrape by in their classes, or just don't even try in their classes.

I think college should be nearly free for people who are serious about it and make good grades. I live in Georgia, and they give the HOPE scholarship if you maintain over a 3.0, and I get the federal Pell grant just for being on the poorer side, so I don't have to pay anything for my 4 year degree. In fact, they give a refund, and I've been getting about $500 a semester, which helps pay for food and gas.

There should be more programs like that. I earn my money by being a good student and doing well in my classes. Jackasses shouldn't also get a free ride just to dick around.

r/gatekeeping

Elaborate.
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JebronLames posted...

iirc kamala harris and bernie sanders also want student loan forgiveness

I do in fact and I also favor universal healthcare.
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