Board 8 > Anagram Plays Persona 4 (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Anagram posted...

Also, I'm a little disappointed I didn't legitimately get the true ending without help, but such is life.

i guess you could say... *puts on sunglasses* you never saw it coming
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Anagram posted...

Also, I'm a little disappointed I didn't legitimately get the true ending without help, but such is life.

Well, this is also why it partly doesn't matter if you know who Adachi is going into it because that's not even the biggest twist in the game.

Also, I do appreciate how Persona 4 goes in really hard on the "How badly do you really want to know the truth?" theme by making the player actually have to earn it and giving them a few chances to settle for an ending that's mostly good enough.
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- I guess I'll just admit the truth: I thought this Izanami thing would be like a short epilogue where I just go fight her? I didn't expect another dungeon. Also, this dungeon's aesthetics and music are way weaker than the previous two.
- Am I allowed to make a joke about the random enemy Mistress Pot?
- As we go down, Izanami is all "I like Greg because he fights for truth even though it's hard because Adachi and Namatame didn't. I won't mention any of the other party members, though."
- Got to Floor 6, just happened to have a persona weak to fire equipped, miniboss hits us with a fire attack and an almighty attack and nearly kills me. I think "okay, well I have the party's turn now, I can easily heal and equip a new persona." Nope! It just gets a third turn after Yosuke goes and just uses another fire attack, killing me.
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xp1337 posted...

i guess you could say... *puts on sunglasses* you never saw it coming

Bah.

LeonhartFour posted...

Well, this is also why it partly doesn't matter if you know who Adachi is going into it because that's not even the biggest twist in the game.

Also, I do appreciate how Persona 4 goes in really hard on the "How badly do you really want to know the truth?" theme by making the player actually have to earn it and giving them a few chances to settle for an ending that's mostly good enough.

It's certainly true that I didn't see this coming.
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Anagram posted...

Also, this dungeon's aesthetics and music are way weaker than the previous two.

It should look pretty familiar though.
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Yeah, Izanami points out why it's familiar, I get it.

Unrelated: I just browsed through the Persona wiki and realized the P3 protagonist's name is also Makoto? So there are three completely unrelated Makotos in the series? Is that a really common name in Japan or something?
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If you count the SMT spinoffs theres more since Devil Survivor 2 has a Makoto as well. I dunno how popular the name is, but its a unisex name so that probably helps along with some fairly big series having a Makoto character (Idolm@ster probably the biggest one Id guess for anime). Street Fighter for gaming probably.

Anagram posted...

Yeah, Izanami points out why it's familiar, I get it.

Unrelated: I just browsed through the Persona wiki and realized the P3 protagonist's name is also Makoto? So there are three completely unrelated Makotos in the series? Is that a really common name in Japan or something?

Yeah, it's pretty common.

Although the P3 protagonist didn't get an official name until the anime movies came out a few years ago.
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Also, there are a few hints about the gas station attendant being suspicious throughout the game. Other than the opening scene in Inaba, they only ever appear on rainy days, and they talk about the Midnight Channel a heck of a lot.

Also, the attendant says they're hiring if the protagonist is looking for a part-time job, but a random NPC a couple days later says he tried applying at the gas station the other day but they weren't hiring. Just little things you wouldn't catch without knowing who it's supposed to be beforehand, but it's pretty neat.

It was smart never to give them a profile pic right up until the reveal though.
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Also, if you have controller rumble on, the rumble goes off during the handshake where it turns out you got the power.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Also, there are a few hints about the gas station attendant being suspicious throughout the game. Other than the opening scene in Inaba, they only ever appear on rainy days, and they talk about the Midnight Channel a heck of a lot.

Also, the attendant says they're hiring if the protagonist is looking for a part-time job, but a random NPC a couple days later says he tried applying at the gas station the other day but they weren't hiring. Just little things you wouldn't catch without knowing who it's supposed to be beforehand, but it's pretty neat.

It was smart never to give them a profile pic right up until the reveal though.

Well, the player would obviously know immediately that the gas station attendant was important if he had a portrait, even if it wasn't all evil-looking, so that was necessary. I didn't notice he appears on rainy days, actually, so thanks for that.
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Well, they gave Namatame a profile pic when you would randomly encounter him around town long before he actually became important to the plot.
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- Got to Neo Minotaur, a miniboss I'd easily trounced the first time, and he one-shot Greg from full health using rampage. I interpret this as the game telling me to stop playing for tonight, and I will obey.
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- Greg and company finally reach the top of the dungeon. Izanami is waiting. She's like "All I did was make a way to show what people secretly wanted to see because they like pretending to know way more people than they can seriously understand, which creates anxiety, which makes them like illusions." Naoto's like "people DO like learning about other people who became famous through the media, it's true."
- Izanami summons an anime cutscene, and I like how Yosuke is the one who does all of the talking because they couldn't have Greg do it. Yosuke is like "We've been through way worse than this," and to his credit, he's right. Izanami is a really easy final boss.
- Izanami says "okay I'm going to telegraph all of my dangerous attacks one turn in advance to give you a chance to guard, and all of my other attacks will do like 150 damage," and proves to be incredibly easy. But then she transforms into a big scary monster! ... and keeps up the same pattern.
- I can't believe my casual recognition of the Izanagi/Izanami myth when I first started playing the game actually became important later on.
- I like how a move named "Hell's Judgment," which you would think would be some kind of crazy attack, just does like 350~ damage to one person and nothing else. It reminds me of the spell Doom in D&D, which sounds scary but just lowers your saving throws by 1.
- Extremely disappointing final boss music. Like, I'm sorry, but this might be the weakest final boss music I've ever heard in any game, it's really bad. I get that they're going for serious 'focus on the battle because it's all about focusing on the truth' but come on.
- "The time has come for us to end this..." *Misses both attacks*
- Izanami finally uses an attack that kills everyone, so Greg wakes up in a featureless plane where all of his rank 10 social links show up and say 'bro friendship,' and that transforms his persona into Izanagi v.2. God, I bet this scene is hilarious if you have no rank 10 social links besides Teddie.
- Greg returns to the battle, throws off his glasses (very symbolic, I actually love this bit), and summons his persona to banish all falsehood, which in this case means Izanami.
- We get another anime cutscene. The TV World, free of the fog, now reflects what is truly in people's hearts: a pretty nice lake surrounded by trees. Well, okay.
- The next day, as Greg is about to leave, Teddie says "I'm gonna stay in the TV World and make sure nothing goes wrong again." Sounds kinda boring, to be honest, but okay. I like how the cutscene starts the same as the fake ending cutscene, then diverges.
- After the credits, the heroes talk about how they miss Greg but he's not really gone, and Greg looks at a photo of the party. Man, I didn't realize how tall Kanji is.
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Now that I've seen the true ending, I'll say the following:
1. I like that the game played the theme of truth and lies the whole way through, even to the point of having a fake ending that completely fooled me, that was super clever.
2. I stand by my observation that Shinto Mythology as the party personas is a weird choice. It works for Izanagi/Izanami, as I said before, since they have a 'true ugliness under beauty' theme, but nothing else works with it. Something like famous literary detectives ala the Phantom Thieves having famous literary thieves would've made more sense, but I understand that you'd need a completely different final boss then.
3. This ending is a bit more satisfying than the fake ending, but doesn't really change much about what I said before in my rankings of the series.
4. Is Izanami, like, supposed to be the actual goddess? Because she didn't seem like a shadow. I understand Nyx is like the personification of death and not a mere shadow, while Yaldaboath is just a human creation.
5. What did I miss from P4G? I know there's an extra month of content and a bonus dungeon. How's the additional party member? Why do people hate her so much?
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Anagram posted...

5. What did I miss from P4G? I know there's an extra month of content and a bonus dungeon. How's the additional party member? Why do people hate her so much?

Marie isn't a party member, though she does have her own dungeon. Her personality is mostly just standard tsundere. I don't think she's awful or anything. The Golden Ending that involves her is pretty fun.
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No additional party, just another social link that hangs out with the party.

And who's been badmouthing my darling Marie? She is best bae.
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P4G has:

-More party interaction scenes
-New party member
-Possible Adachi ending
-Somewhat extended epilogue

The gang meets up again a year after the ending of the game, hangout time ensues:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/d-zjR2riCmA/maxresdefault.jpg
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Sceptilesolar posted...

Marie isn't a party member, though she does have her own dungeon. Her personality is mostly just standard tsundere. I don't think she's awful or anything. The Golden Ending that involves her is pretty fun.

MrSmartGuy posted...

No additional party, just another social link that hangs out with the party.

And who's been badmouthing my darling Marie? She is best bae.

Thanks!

KamikazePotato posted...

P4G has:

-More party interaction scenes
-New party member
-Possible Adachi ending
-Somewhat extended epilogue

The gang meets up again a year after the ending of the game, hangout time ensues:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/d-zjR2riCmA/maxresdefault.jpg

I know of them is Marie, but who's the second new girl and the guy?
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Teddie - Yosuke - MC - Kanji
Naoto - Marie - Chie - Rise - Yukiko
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Anagram posted...

- Extremely disappointing final boss music.

I hope you mean the music for Izanami's second form, because the first form boss theme is arguably the best in the game!

Anagram posted...

4. Is Izanami, like, supposed to be the actual goddess? Because she didn't seem like a shadow. I understand Nyx is like the personification of death and not a mere shadow, while Yaldaboath is just a human creation.

I don't... think so? But I think Persona is really weird about this. Izanami talks like she is, but I always interpreted her as a very powerful shadow that bought into herself way too much like Yaldabaoth. Nyx was legitimately like... beyond just humanity, Izanami and Yaldabaoth I read as actually pretty similar entities born from the collective unconscious.

Anagram posted...

5. What did I miss from P4G? I know there's an extra month of content and a bonus dungeon. How's the additional party member? Why do people hate her so much?

A lot. I'll try to summarize some of the main points, but a lot.

Gameplay Side:

You directly pick which skills are inherited.
You can go out into Inaba at night.
Party Members can learn more skills through some optional spend time things, you can also have them remember skills they forgot.
January (and early February) are playable
Two New S-Links: Adachi (Jester/Hunger) and Marie (Aeon)
"Rank 11" Events with teammates if they were maxed out can take place in January. It's basically a new event that leads to a second Persona evolution.
Rise gets some OP Support Skills much like Futaba had.

Story Side:

Tons of new little events throughout the story. This ranges from a scene where Chie is shown to be scared of thunder early in the game, tons of new "walk to school" scenes.
For the Summer Festival, the day after the Vanilla one, the IT Girls call you to invite you there if they're eligible.
There's a new Fireworks Event.
The team (minus Kanji and Teddie) get Scooter licenses and there's quite a few scenes tied into this.
Two New Endings (the worst one where you become Adachi's accomplice and then a new "Golden" Ending tied with the extra content Marie brings)
New Years' Festival (including date with romance option if applicable)
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Anagram posted...

Extremely disappointing final boss music. Like, I'm sorry, but this might be the weakest final boss music I've ever heard in any game, it's really bad. I get that they're going for serious 'focus on the battle because it's all about focusing on the truth' but come on.

It's okay. The boss music in the first phase is amazing.
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The final boss music is really good once it kicks in. The problem is that the buildup is 7 minutes and the high point is 1 minute. And then it loops...
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I prefer Fog to the actual last boss fight

Fog is a banger
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Fog (Izanami Phase 1) > The Almighty (Ameno-sagiri) > A New World Fool (Adachi and Namatame) > I'll Face Myself (Shadow Selves) >>> The Genesis (Izanami Phase 2) > Reach Out to the Truth (Normal Battle Theme)

Golden is A+ on the new themes though. 8-bit version of I'll Face Myself for Shadow Mitsuo and Reincarnation Version of I'll Face Myself for the New Dungeon Part 1 really great too and would place at/near the top of the list. Not to mention the other new songs from it.
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Reach Out to the Truth is great.
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I'll Face Myself is so good
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P4G's new battle theme is way better than Reach Out to the Truth.
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MrSmartGuy posted...

Teddie - Yosuke - MC - Kanji
Naoto - Marie - Chie - Rise - Yukiko

Thanks, I didn't recognize Naoto because I'm dumb.

xp1337 posted...

A lot. I'll try to summarize some of the main points, but a lot.

Gameplay Side:

You directly pick which skills are inherited.
You can go out into Inaba at night.
Party Members can learn more skills through some optional spend time things, you can also have them remember skills they forgot.
January (and early February) are playable
Two New S-Links: Adachi (Jester/Hunger) and Marie (Aeon)
"Rank 11" Events with teammates if they were maxed out can take place in January. It's basically a new event that leads to a second Persona evolution.
Rise gets some OP Support Skills much like Futaba had.

Story Side:

Tons of new little events throughout the story. This ranges from a scene where Chie is shown to be scared of thunder early in the game, tons of new "walk to school" scenes.
For the Summer Festival, the day after the Vanilla one, the IT Girls call you to invite you there if they're eligible.
There's a new Fireworks Event.
The team (minus Kanji and Teddie) get Scooter licenses and there's quite a few scenes tied into this.
Two New Endings (the worst one where you become Adachi's accomplice and then a new "Golden" Ending tied with the extra content Marie brings)
New Years' Festival (including date with romance option if applicable)

Thanks, sounds like quite a bit.

And yes, I meant the second phase of the boss fight music.
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Actually, I just realized: Adachi's victims of choice had nothing to do with the Midnight Channel except that he used it to kill them, right? So them appearing on TV in advance had nothing to do with anything?
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It was the general desire of the people that determined who appeared on the Midnight Channel. However, Adachi did use the fact that the first two victims appeared on the Midnight Channel before he killed them as a way to manipulate Namatame to keep throwing people in.
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Anagram posted...

Actually, I just realized: Adachi's victims of choice had nothing to do with the Midnight Channel except that he used it to kill them, right? So them appearing on TV in advance had nothing to do with anything?

That lines up with my understanding of Adachi's actions, yeah. Adachi's first murder was borderline passion because Mayumi rejected him. His second was convenience/general scumbaggery because Saki was there. Both appeared on the Midnight Channel after appearing on real life TV, but their appearances on TV at all were mostly coincidence (Though Mayumi becoming famous for her affair and Saki becoming famous for having found Mayumi's body was the reason Adachi had access to them to begin with, so it's not entirely unrelated).

(And then yeah, like Leon said Adachi took advantage of that coincidence to manipulate Namatame. But I'm still pretty sure that connection was coincidence to begin with)

Also, as far as Arena content goes, if you want to get any of the relevant extra story bits, watch these story modes in roughly this order:

Yu
Yosuke
Naoto
Aigis
Mitsuru
Labrys

Teddie's also expands on his character a lot but isn't as 'necessary'.
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LeonhartFour posted...

It was the general desire of the people that determined who appeared on the Midnight Channel. However, Adachi did use the fact that the first two victims appeared on the Midnight Channel before he killed them as a way to manipulate Namatame to keep throwing people in.

Fair enough, that makes sense.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Also, as far as Arena content goes, if you want to get any of the relevant extra story bits, watch these story modes in roughly this order:

Yu
Yosuke
Naoto
Aigis
Mitsuru
Labrys

Teddie's also expands on his character a lot but isn't as 'necessary'.

Thanks, I'm watching some content I didn't see from Golden on YouTube right now.
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Anyway, I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and telling me to play Persona. It's probably the game series B8 recommended that I've enjoyed the most.
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Anagram posted...

Anyway, I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and telling me to play Persona. It's probably the game series B8 recommended that I've enjoyed the most.

It was a fun topic series to follow! And hey, you're not even done yet. You still have to show us your reactions to Persona 4 Arena. And Ultimax. And Dancing All Night. And the anime series (both of them). And Persona Q. And the Persona 3 movies.

Atlus did a good job at milking P4 dry in the wait between it and P5.
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KamikazePotato posted...

And the anime series (both of them).

Don't watch the P4 Golden anime. It's bad. Don't watch the P5 anime either.

The original P4 anime is good stuff though. It makes P4 protagonist the best character in the series.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Don't watch the P4 Golden anime. It's bad. Don't watch the P5 anime either.

The original P4 anime is good stuff though. It makes P4 protagonist the best character in the series.

So they made Persona 4's story into an anime twice?

KamikazePotato posted...

It was a fun topic series to follow! And hey, you're not even done yet. You still have to show us your reactions to Persona 4 Arena. And Ultimax. And Dancing All Night. And the anime series (both of them). And Persona Q. And the Persona 3 movies.

Atlus did a good job at milking P4 dry in the wait between it and P5.

I don't know if I'll touch the spinoffs. My impression was that they're technically canon, but in a way that's never referenced and doesn't matter.
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Anagram posted...

So they made Persona 4's story into an anime twice?

Well, the Golden anime mostly deals with the new stuff they added, so it's not a strict retelling of the story. The P4 Golden anime is basically like one of those self-insert fanfictions where the author places themselves into the story and makes themselves the most important person in the universe, where they shoehorned Marie into everything imaginable, even stuff she wasn't a part of in the game.

The P5 anime pretty much is a strict retelling of the game, which is why I wouldn't bother with it. They altered a few details (and some of them for the better, even), but it's not different enough to say it's something you should watch.

The original P4 anime takes enough liberties to be worth watching, and like I said, P4 protagonist is the best.

Anagram posted...

I don't know if I'll touch the spinoffs. My impression was that they're technically canon, but in a way that's never referenced and doesn't matter.

Well, yeah, that's what happens when you don't make direct sequels. P5 does reference a particular character who's a major part of P4DAN though, for what it's worth.
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I'll probably skip the P4G and P5 anime, then. I normally don't watch anime as it is, so I may skip P4's, but I'll put it in my list of anime to watch one day.

I did enjoy the series. I may look into the spinoffs at some point, especially since I have no PS4 and can't play P5R.
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