Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 209: Lord of the Lies

(+) Yeah! (+)

Also, in other international news, the UK government was held in contempt of parliament today for failing to release the legal advice it was given on Brexit.
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In contempt of itself?

EDIT: To be fair, that is very British
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Avenatti not running for president in 2020.
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Jakyl25 posted...

In contempt of itself?

EDIT: To be fair, that is very British

Nope, parliament as a whole. The government is only part of parliament (in this case the Tories in a minority government).

First time this has ever happened, absolutely mad. Legally speaking it could end up with the ministers involved locked up in Big Ben. That won't happen but this is the end for the ministers involved, and possibly Theresa May herself.
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Graham: I have great respect for [Sec. Pompeo and Gen. Mattis.] I would imagine if they were in a Democratic administration, I would be all over them for being in the pocket of Saudi Arabia. But since I have such respect for them, I am going to assume they are being good soldiers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rQpqGXf9oo" data-time="&start=282

So i mean i guess they don't even hide the hypocrisy anymore
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The plan is certainly optimistic, but its also 100% possible.

Like the main number everyone quotes is literally from a Libertarian think tank.

They're from a libertarian, but his study takes Sanders' claims about how much things will cost at face value.

I'm not saying that no form of MFA can work (or even that Sanders' can't work!), but Sanders' plan will, in all likelihood, cost considerably more than $32 trillion.

Do you know the cost of our current system? Just curious.

Apparently about 3.3 trillion in 2016, though medical costs have been growing faster than inflation so the total cost over 10 years would be considerably more than 10 times that.
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TotallyNotMI posted...

Graham: I have great respect for [Sec. Pompeo and Gen. Mattis.] I would imagine if they were in a Democratic administration, I would be all over them for being in the pocket of Saudi Arabia. But since I have such respect for them, I am going to assume they are being good soldiers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rQpqGXf9oo" data-time="&start=282

So i mean i guess they don't even hide the hypocrisy anymore

Yeah Graham really sucks now (I guess maybe he always did? But its definitely worse post-Trump).

He still has good quotes, though...!
https://twitter.com/shaneharris/status/1070016129811341313?s=21
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Real socialized medicine should cost a lot less than the current system. But you would have to change a lot of the premises, like how much is spent on medical research, not just put a socialist label on top of our nightmarish mix of the worst elements of many systems.
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The GOP gerrymander for the WI state legislature is fucking insane:
https://twitter.com/bcburden/status/1069773072587206656

(Also they're currently trying to pull some really shady shit to strip a ton of power from the governor and attorney general now that Democrats won those offices)
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LordoftheMorons posted...

The GOP gerrymander for the WI state legislature is fucking insane:
https://twitter.com/bcburden/status/1069773072587206656

(Also they're currently trying to pull some really shady shit to strip a ton of power from the governor and attorney general now that Democrats won those offices)

awww, they're trying to be like north carolina, how cute!

Next step: set up an electoral college system for the state so that each district gets 1 vote for governor.
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I agree gerrymandering is terrible, but this election overall wasn't exactly evidence for that. My gut reaction, after the election, was "jeez think how many more seats the democrats would've got if not for gerrymandering. However, if you look at the total house popular vote Democrats got 53.4% of the vote while Republicans got 44.9% of the vote (3rd party got 1.7%).

53.4% of the seats in the house would be 233 seats (rounded up).
44.9% of the seats in the house would be 196 (rounded up).
1.7% of the seats in the house would be 8 seats (again, rounded up so we don't have 0.2 of a person)

Actual numbers were 235 to 200. So honestly the national popular vote was a very good reflection of representation in the senate. Except for third parties, RIP all you crazy people intent on wasting your vote one way or another.

(This isn't an argument against the WI gerrymander being bad at the state level, but this was something I looked into a couple of weeks ago and just forgot to post. The gerrymander post just made me think of it!)
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The federal house shook out pretty fairly I agree

The Wisconsin state legislature is an absolute travesty

Jakyl25 posted...

Also apparently fuel taxes are Cultural Marxism now

Its important to note that Macron slashed benefits and welfare, too, but we cant get in the way of a good Right Wing narrative.
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red sox 777 posted...

Next step: set up an electoral college system for the state so that each district gets 1 vote for governor.

But when do they change the presidential electoral votes to 1 electoral vote per House district with the remaining 2 at-large votes going to the party that wins more districts?
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Xeybozn posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Next step: set up an electoral college system for the state so that each district gets 1 vote for governor.

But when do they change the presidential electoral votes to 1 electoral vote per House district with the remaining 2 at-large votes going to the party that wins more districts?

We only want that in blue states. So I guess it would have to be a bluish state that is somehow controlled by a Republican legislature. Or a purple state where the legislature is afraid will be unreliable in a presidential election.
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red sox 777 posted...

Or a purple state where the legislature is afraid will be unreliable in a presidential election.

...So Wisconsin then? If I were a GOP strategist, I'd rather have a guaranteed 7-3 lead in electoral votes rather than a not quite 50-50 shot at winning all 10.
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Actually, they could just go back to what South Carolina did before the Civil War. Don't hold a presidential election, and the legislature just votes for the Republican and awards him all their electoral votes.
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That gets them the electoral votes, but being so obvious about subverting democracy could lead to a backlash. Also, the massive negative publicity would hurt them in other states. Having a vote will allow people who don't closely follow politics to feel the system is fair even though the vote would be basically rigged. Also, the GOP would get to bash Democrats for hating democracy and REAL AMERICA when they complain about how unfair it is.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The plan is certainly optimistic, but its also 100% possible.

Like the main number everyone quotes is literally from a Libertarian think tank.

They're from a libertarian, but his study takes Sanders' claims about how much things will cost at face value.

I'm not saying that no form of MFA can work (or even that Sanders' can't work!), but Sanders' plan will, in all likelihood, cost considerably more than $32 trillion.

Do you know the cost of our current system? Just curious.

Apparently about 3.3 trillion in 2016, though medical costs have been growing faster than inflation so the total cost over 10 years would be considerably more than 10 times that.

Its also worth noting that the 32 Trillion number is probably too low a figure not too high because it doesn't account for the fact that the main area of cost for Medicare is in administrative costs which would increase exponentially rather than in a linear fashion of it were to cover literally everyone rather than just people over 65.

There's also the fact that you need to take a hard look at say the NHS in Britain (which is rapidly turning into a mutant version of the American system) in order to determine what exactly you WANT out of Medicare for All and what the attacks on it would be.

Literally passing a piece of legislation that removed the "over 65" from Medicare would be the single biggest expansion of our government since WWII.

Like I agree it's worth doing but lets not sit here and pretend that words like "efficient" or "easy" apply to it.
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Eddv posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The plan is certainly optimistic, but its also 100% possible.

Like the main number everyone quotes is literally from a Libertarian think tank.

They're from a libertarian, but his study takes Sanders' claims about how much things will cost at face value.

I'm not saying that no form of MFA can work (or even that Sanders' can't work!), but Sanders' plan will, in all likelihood, cost considerably more than $32 trillion.

Do you know the cost of our current system? Just curious.

Apparently about 3.3 trillion in 2016, though medical costs have been growing faster than inflation so the total cost over 10 years would be considerably more than 10 times that.

Its also worth noting that the 32 Trillion number is probably too low a figure not too high because it doesn't account for the fact that the main area of cost for Medicare is in administrative costs which would increase exponentially rather than in a linear fashion of it were to cover literally everyone rather than just people over 65.

There's also the fact that you need to take a hard look at say the NHS in Britain (which is rapidly turning into a mutant version of the American system) in order to determine what exactly you WANT out of Medicare for All and what the attacks on it would be.

Literally passing a piece of legislation that removed the "over 65" from Medicare would be the single biggest expansion of our government since WWII.

Like I agree it's worth doing but lets not sit here and pretend that words like "efficient" or "easy" apply to it.

Why would it increase administrative costs exponentially? I don't see any reason why it should, in a competently run MFA. Other than one-time transition costs, obviously.
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Crazy subplot in the NC-9 election fraud story:
https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1070149544724365312
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Bullock is running for MT Senator in 2020 per Tester:
https://twitter.com/ChazNuttycombe/status/1070187588361879552

I assume it'll still be a very uphill battle against Daines, but this probably gives Dems a nonzero chance.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Bullock is running for MT Senator in 2020 per Tester:
https://twitter.com/ChazNuttycombe/status/1070187588361879552

I assume it'll still be a very uphill battle against Daines, but this probably gives Dems a nonzero chance.

I was looking through the comments and there isn't any confirmation from Bullock or anything like that and people can't tell if Tester was just being joking/hopeful or not.

But hell yes please do it Bullock. It'd be a tough fight against Daines, but Bullock won the governorship by +4 in a year that Trump won Montana +20. They'd at least have a chance with Bullock.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Bullock is running for MT Senator in 2020 per Tester:
https://twitter.com/ChazNuttycombe/status/1070187588361879552

I assume it'll still be a very uphill battle against Daines, but this probably gives Dems a nonzero chance.

Between this (presuming its true and means Bullock is suspending his fledgling presidential run) and Avenatti and Decal Patrick confirming they arent running, yesterday was a big day for the silent primary.

Field is shaping up to have major contenders:

Joe Biden
Bernie Sanders
Cory Booker
Elizabeth Warren
Kamala Harris
Beto O'Rourke

Others rumored:
Amy Klobuchar
Sherrod Brown
Bob Casey Jr
Michael Bloomberg

Actually declared:
John Delaney

I actually sort of hope O Rourke takes another crack at TX Sen (Cornyn is less popular than Cruz somehow and O Rourke would definitely put TX Sen in play in 2020)

I would say Deval Patrick withdrawing plays most strongly for O Rourke and Booker
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Brown, O'Rourke, and Biden my favorites of that group.

Brown is holding on to a seat that might be tough to get back, O'Rourke didn't quite win, so maybe it'd just be best for Biden to be the champion to fight the incumbent.

He's got recognition and memes, after all.
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Gillibrand is also almost definitely running.
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Eddv posted...

Field is shaping up to have major contenders:

Joe Biden
Bernie Sanders
Cory Booker
Elizabeth Warren
Kamala Harris
Beto O'Rourke

Others rumored:
Amy Klobuchar
Sherrod Brown
Bob Casey Jr
Michael Bloomberg

Actually declared:
John Delaney

Wheres Hillary?
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legends bracket
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Literally LOLd

In other news, NYT columnist Ross Douthat is basically a racist

https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/1070292976662921217?s=21
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OMG OMG OMG

Remember this?

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/rudygiuliani/status/1068570837459050496?s=21

Mueller filed an indictment just as the President left for G-20.In July he indicted the Russians who will never come here just before he left for Helsinki.Either could have been done earlier or later. Out of control!Supervision please?

https://twitter.com/th3j35t3r/status/1069608117116166145?s=21

Bwahahaa - Rudy 'Cyber' Giuliani accidentally created a link in this tweet because he omitted a space. Click the link.

I wondered after I posted it if it wasnt good enough content to share, but Rudy is such a fun target to dunk on because hes a very particular kind of moron.

Even I wasnt prepared for this

https://twitter.com/rudygiuliani/status/1070118915139923968?s=21

Twitter allowed someone to invade my text with a disgusting anti-President message. The same thing-period no space-occurred later and it didnt happen. Dont tell me they are not committed cardcarrying anti-Trumpers. Time Magazine also may fit that description. FAIRNESS PLEASE

I want to explode with laughter at how he thinks this works
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I'm not sure what my favorite part of that tweet is.

there are just too many to choose from
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Eddv posted...

I actually sort of hope O Rourke takes another crack at TX Sen (Cornyn is less popular than Cruz somehow and O Rourke would definitely put TX Sen in play in 2020)

Cornyn is less popular, sure.

He's also far less hated. My gut feeling is that he'd do 1-2 points worse against Cornyn in a vacuum, but a Presidential Election year with a historically unpopular President could put him over the top I guess.

tbqh, Brown holding onto that Senate seat is more important IMO. Agreed that O'Rourke probably fares worse against Cornyn than Cruz.

2020 contenders is a mess for me because I feel like I'm more likely to have issues with the ones I think are most likely to win... and the ones I may like more personally may have more problems electorally.

I dunno, just get like a Harris/O'Rourke ticket that satisfies the most people probably.
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As a former postal worker, I am ashamed they are suspending delivery today just to mourn George Bush
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https://jacobinmag.com/2018/12/medicare-for-all-study-peri-sanders

Didn't look if others posted this, so apologies if so.

Jakyl25 posted...

As a former postal worker, I am ashamed they are suspending delivery today just to mourn George Bush

For what its worth, the executive order caused the closure. Its not like its a postal service thing in particular.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Brown, O'Rourke, and Biden my favorites of that group.

Brown is holding on to a seat that might be tough to get back, O'Rourke didn't quite win, so maybe it'd just be best for Biden to be the champion to fight the incumbent.

He's got recognition and memes, after all.

The problem with Biden is that he is even more centrist than Clinton which could get the progressive wing to holler even more. However, Biden excites me the most tbh.
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Jakyl25 posted...

As a former postal worker, I am ashamed they are suspending delivery today just to mourn George Bush

They're only suspending normal deliveries. Theyre still delivering priority mail.
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Reg posted...

Eddv posted...

I actually sort of hope O Rourke takes another crack at TX Sen (Cornyn is less popular than Cruz somehow and O Rourke would definitely put TX Sen in play in 2020)

Cornyn is less popular, sure.

He's also far less hated. My gut feeling is that he'd do 1-2 points worse against Cornyn in a vacuum, but a Presidential Election year with a historically unpopular President could put him over the top I guess.

My point was more that he did all that work to try and turn Texas purple it would great to see him finish the job.
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Nrrr posted...

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/12/medicare-for-all-study-peri-sanders

Didn't look if others posted this, so apologies if so.

bringing total annual health care spending up from $3.2 trillion to $3.6 trillion (likely a high estimate); and that massive savings in administrative, pharmaceutical, and provider payment spending will then bring total expenses back down from $3.6 trillion to $2.93 trillion.

Hi, this is where this goes off the rails into incorrectness and since its the bedrock of everything that follows mathwise the whole thing is fatally flawed, if interesting.

I mean sure in some sort of fantasy realm where this can somehow pass as written and succeeds in completely tearing down the private insurance market altogether sure.

But that's not ever gonna fucking happen without some real pie in the sky never gonna happen electoral reforms going through first.Insurance industries constitute far too large a portion of our economy for them to be completely shut out of the process in practice.

At best, Medicare for All is going to exist as an option which would cause the opposite - an increase in what would need to be spent on administrative spending while pharmaceutical and provider payments at BEST stand pat but in reality probably also go up.
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Eddv posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

As a former postal worker, I am ashamed they are suspending delivery today just to mourn George Bush

They're only suspending normal deliveries. Theyre still delivering priority mail.

Suspending normal delivery is silly enough

I could MAYBE understand it if the sitting President died.
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I mean its a federal holiday.

They did the same thing for Gerald Ford in 2007.
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Why though?
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(Also I will say that having a day off in the middle of the week is not much of a benefit to the actual postal carriers. The work will just be doubled tomorrow.)
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Eddv posted...

My point was more that he did all that work to try and turn Texas purple it would great to see him finish the job.

I agree with this.

https://twitter.com/wrestlingsheet/status/1070371775396032512?s=21

Janis Burke, CEO of the Houston Sports Authority, says she can't help but think sports-fanatic George H.W. Bush is looking down from heaven with happiness over Houston getting a team in Houston.

I love the idea of Bushs spirit skipping his own funeral to see if Houston got an XFL team
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Well, for one thing its not just postal carriers.

Its all federal employees.

But I dunno "why". Just because?
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Awkward
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