Poll of the Day > Are universities giant scams these days?

(+) Yeah! (+)

In my experience, they charge you out the ass and the service they provide is pretty piss poor for what you get charged. You can of course still get a good job if you graduate with a worthwhile degree but it seems to me that taking much cheaper online courses and getting certifications is more worthwhile and cost effective. And a lot of guys I know that only did online courses and got certifications ended up with pretty high paying jobs whereas I know people who spent exorbitant amounts of money on a four year degree that cant find work

define scam.

they offer classes and degrees that won't be helpful for getting a job, sure, but imo that's the students fault for taking those classes (assuming they want a job right away).

Universities also offer classes that will be helpful for obtaining higher paying jobs. It's up to the student to take classes/ get a major that will help them get a job in the real world.

In my major (biology) my college/counselors were very upfront about what you should do to get a job with the major. In some of the entry courses, they even assigned us research homework about what kind of jobs you could get with just a bio degree in the even that you don't become a doctor (most entry level bio students believed they we be doctors).

You basically needed my schooling to do anything worth while with the degree (which is what I did-I got a masters).

but yeah, kinda like what you said, tech schools and certs are cost for cost the better investment imo.
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green dragon posted...

define scam.

they offer classes and degrees that won't be helpful for getting a job, sure, but imo that's the students fault for taking those classes (assuming they want a job right away).

Universities also offer classes that will be helpful for obtaining higher paying jobs. It's up to the student to take classes/ get a major that will help them get a job in the real world.

In my major (biology) my college/counselors were very upfront about what you should do to get a job with the major. In some of the entry courses, they even assigned us research homework about what kind of jobs you could get with just a bio degree in the even that you don't become a doctor (most entry level bio students believed they we be doctors).

You basically needed my schooling to do anything worth while with the degree (which is what I did-I got a masters).

but yeah, kinda like what you said, tech schools and certs are cost for cost the better investment imo.

It varies on a school to school basis but mainly what I'm referring to is what is often a lack of resources for the thousands of dollars you're paying. And on top of the thousands of dollars, you have to pay for parking and textbooks, etc. They're often understaffed or will tell you they have tutors available at certain times in certain places only to go and be told they dont at the moment. Obviously, every school is different but I feel like often times they function as a corporation and are simply maximizing profit and refuse to offer enough staff and resources and get shitty, apathetic visiting lecturers since they dont have to pay them as much. I know there's a lot of cost to operate such a massive place but I fail to see how the thousands of dollars that students spend there somehow isnt enough

Sorta. While there are plenty of fields where the education is necessary for the job, the idea that college is necessary for any decent paying career is wrong. They won't tell you that though if you're willing to give them money.

Yes, they draw you in with false information.

But, I'll never recommend someone not to go to a university. Just to be smart about it. Take difficult math and english writing courses. In undergrad study to become intelligent and well-rounded. Do a basic science degree with a minor in an art or humanities, or flip that around.

In grad school study to get a job. Know too many physics PhDs who could only grab 20-40k/year intro engineering jobs.

Or if you want to bypass higher amounts of money and understanding of the world, just do a degree like engineering, nursing, accounting in undergrad so you're studying to get a job right off. You could just go to a tech school or community college if you're not planning on grad school tbh.

You also don't need college for a well paying job. But you do for a well paying job that's interesting where you'll be working with intelligent people.

Hell no.

You know what a University title shows? That you have commitment and you stuck thru your education.

Potential employees love that shit.

Now, if you are planning on running your own business, then yes, you probably do not need a higher education baring you know how to read.
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blu posted...

Or if you want to bypass higher amounts of money and understanding of the world, just do a degree like engineering

Yeah that's why I went into EE. There are so many majors that are for the most part a complete waste of time. Buddy of mine for instance studied anthropology. Incredible waste of time and money despite being an interesting field to study in

Not entirely. Go STEM and stay away from everything else and you'll be good.
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Viking_Mudcrap posted...

Hell no.

You know what a University title shows? That you have commitment and you stuck thru your education.

Potential employees love that shit.

Now, if you are planning on running your own business, then yes, you probably do not need a higher education baring you know how to read.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's not a scam though lol. That just means you stuck with something that cost lots of unnecessary time and money. And yeah that shows dedication but nearly half the classes you take in college are completely useless for whatever your major is

America's economy is basically built on a Three Eds level scam, of course Universities are a scam there.
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Criminally overpriced but not a scam.
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TES_Nut posted...

Criminally overpriced but not a scam.

So scam lite? Lol

Or a criminal non scam?

TES_Nut posted...

Criminally overpriced but not a scam.

Seems to me like they are not, otherwise no one would go to school and every University would be out of business.

Like, things can only be priced at whatever people are willing to pay.
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No, but I think too many people go into one without direction and pay for it the rest of their lives.

If you know exactly what you want to and what you need to do to get there, then go to a university to get that training and the degree that shows you did it. If you are even slightly confused about what you want to do, then don't go directly to a university. Take some classes at a community college for 1/10th the price and then go to a university once you know what you want to do and transfer those classes you already took over so you don't have to pay for them twice. Plus, not every career needs a degree, some are fine with a certification or apprenticeship.
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Viking_Mudcrap posted...

TES_Nut posted...

Criminally overpriced but not a scam.

Seems to me like they are not, otherwise no one would go to school and every University would be out of business.

Like, things can only be priced at whatever people are willing to pay.

You really believe this? Lol. People go because they think that in the long run it'll be worth paying way too much money if they get a career out of it. Young kids are made to think it's their only option for a good job. That and it turns out people will take loans offered to them for things they cant afford and shouldn't be trying to. Let's take a look back at the recession a few years back as evidence of that.

Maybe scam isnt the right word for me to use though. Maybe ripoff is more appropriate. I just think they dont offer a service that reflects the ridiculous price. I shouldn't be getting low rent visiting lecturers for most of my classes. And there should be tutors on the job at all times in labs. And there should be enough seats in classes to go around for students who need to take certain classes. And they should offer textbooks at the rates they charge

OhhhJa posted...

Young kids are made to think it's their only option for a good job.

I think you mean "Employers continued to squeeze all the cash as high up in their companies as possible so a degree is the only option for a good job."
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

OhhhJa posted...

Young kids are made to think it's their only option for a good job.

I think you mean "Employers continued to squeeze all the cash as high up in their companies as possible so a degree is the only option for a good job."

This is true too. Which is also why kids feel forced into universities now. So many jobs require a 4 year degree just to be considered

I dunno' if I'd call it scam, but it is kinda' like legalized gambling. You may get your dream job after all, but you also might wind up not being able to find a worthwhile job, too.
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Unless you're looking to get a masters degree, go to a community college.

I don't consider university to be a scam, but I think the NA system (i.e. expectation that 18 year olds who finish High School should immediately continue into a 4 year institution) is incredibly flawed. The major issue as I see it is that a lot of people wade blindly into a university setting with little direction as to what they should be doing and/or what they even WANT to be doing for the next several years of their life (if not forever). This tends to lead to a lot of students accruing massive amounts of debt, only to obtain a degree that they either do not care about or can't feasibly rely on for a secure job in the near future.

I, personally, knew what I wanted to do and continued on to acquire my Master's Degree. For what I do, a degree is necessary, since I am involved in a lot of health and wellness research, as well as international conferences and teaching university and adult education classes. To vaguely state that the college experience is a scam undermines the value and importance that it brings to certain educational paths (i.e. law, medicine). However, it certainly is fair to say that it is highly flawed, since young, impressionable, and often-misguided youth amass inordinate amounts of debt for a career path that they could have otherwise obtained with a much cheaper 2 year degree or technical school certificate.

Overall, I think the major shift needs to be in cultural expectations of what works best for the individual, as opposed to this cookie-cutter idea that "everyone needs to go to college to be successful". Instead of making HS students feel like university has to be the next option, there needs to be a critical plan outlined for students that incorporates the possibilities of community college, technical school, and/or going directly into the job market as an entry-level candidate and working your way up from the bottom. I believe that education is important, but I think what's even more important is helping the individual achieve their full potential--which may or may not involve a 4 year degree (or more).
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It's beneficial, but over rated. There are better things to do with that time.
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Idk if i'd call them a scam. overpriced for sure, and the textbooks bs is a scam. otherwise tho they do actually give you the degree you sign up for, assuming you do the job.

professors should be held to a higher standard of teaching tho. i feel like there's too many professors that grade very harshly for no reason other then to seem like they're "tough" or holding you to some higher standard no one cares about but them.
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They definitely try to make you believe it's more important and useful than it really is.
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VeeVees posted...

They definitely try to make you believe it's more important and useful than it really is.

isn't that how most for-profit businesses operate? Thats the problem with uni, it cares more about money than education, they will cut everything and anything if it means more profits. Of course strikes and protests happen across institutions, but does anything really ever change? And how long do these changes take to happen?

I learned a ton from uni, but nothing all that useful for life or work. Still, I don't completely regret it because a few of the profs I met are the most intelligent and progressive people I've ever met, unlike their bosses (department/faculty/uni administration - all 3 levels) and the "outside world". Some unis are ridiculous, in Canada for example the presidents across all main unis get paid more than our country's leader (prime minister). That kind of ludicrous salary proportion is comparable to CEO (and a quick google shows how almost everyone thinks CEO compensation is too high comparative to their employees). again, this is a sign of how unis are more business oriented than education oriented. What's worse is that most profs are temps/contract, so no benefits + they get paid very little for how many students they have to deal with. No wonder people complain about the quality of education, the non-tenure profs barely get paid more than a worker at mcdonalds, these people are only in it for the satisfaction of educating students (which is rewarding, sure, but not fairly compensated). Sometimes I think unis forget that education can happen without administration/a university, but it can't without the bottom line: profs who actually teach students, or at the very least guide them toward knowledge.
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Does anyone recommend that I should get into book keeping? It will only take a year to get a certification at the local community college here. It's just something I thought about because I really don't have no other sense of direction to know what I really wanna do just yet... And I just mostly wanna make a bit more money and that's why I saw that maybe bookkeeping can be a possibility.

TaKun782 posted...

Does anyone recommend that I should get into book keeping? It will only take a year to get a certification at the local community college here. It's just something I thought about because I really don't have no other sense of direction to know what I really wanna do just yet... And I just mostly wanna make a bit more money and that's why I saw that maybe bookkeeping can be a possibility.

I've read that the job of bookkeeping will die soon...
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LinkPizza posted...

TaKun782 posted...

Does anyone recommend that I should get into book keeping? It will only take a year to get a certification at the local community college here. It's just something I thought about because I really don't have no other sense of direction to know what I really wanna do just yet... And I just mostly wanna make a bit more money and that's why I saw that maybe bookkeeping can be a possibility.

I've read that the job of bookkeeping will die soon...

How about accounting?

TaKun782 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

TaKun782 posted...

Does anyone recommend that I should get into book keeping? It will only take a year to get a certification at the local community college here. It's just something I thought about because I really don't have no other sense of direction to know what I really wanna do just yet... And I just mostly wanna make a bit more money and that's why I saw that maybe bookkeeping can be a possibility.

I've read that the job of bookkeeping will die soon...

How about accounting?

Actually, that one, too. Though, probably not as soon as bookkeeping. I think it was like a list of jobs that will soon die... It might not be 100% correct, though...
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LinkPizza posted...

TaKun782 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

TaKun782 posted...

Does anyone recommend that I should get into book keeping? It will only take a year to get a certification at the local community college here. It's just something I thought about because I really don't have no other sense of direction to know what I really wanna do just yet... And I just mostly wanna make a bit more money and that's why I saw that maybe bookkeeping can be a possibility.

I've read that the job of bookkeeping will die soon...

How about accounting?

Actually, that one, too. Though, probably not as soon as bookkeeping. I think it was like a list of jobs that will soon die... It might not be 100% correct, though...

Damn... It looks like I'm better off just getting into data entry then without schooling. :/

LinkPizza posted...

I think it was like a list of jobs that will soon die...

Probably nearly all jobs will die within 20 years

OhhhJa posted...

LinkPizza posted...

I think it was like a list of jobs that will soon die...

Probably nearly all jobs will die within 20 years

Probably. I saw a video about the new Amazon store. You just use you phone and Amazon account while in the store. No cashiers, either. If those open up everywhere, lots of people will lose jobs. Amazon said that it's fine because they will still need people to do things like restock. But most stores have both people that restock and cashiers. So, people are still out of a job. Not to mention, there are trying to make machines to do the restocking. So, they still lose their jobs. But then they say they still need people to fix the machines. But that's not a job for everyone. Not to mention, you won't need that many people... But lots of jobs can already be done by machines and computers these days. Soon, maybe all of them...
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LinkPizza posted...

OhhhJa posted...

LinkPizza posted...

I think it was like a list of jobs that will soon die...

Probably nearly all jobs will die within 20 years

Probably. I saw a video about the new Amazon store. You just use you phone and Amazon account while in the store. No cashiers, either. If those open up everywhere, lots of people will lose jobs. Amazon said that it's fine because they will still need people to do things like restock. But most stores have both people that restock and cashiers. So, people are still out of a job. Not to mention, there are trying to make machines to do the restocking. So, they still lose their jobs. But then they say they still need people to fix the machines. But that's not a job for everyone. Not to mention, you won't need that many people... But lots of jobs can already be done by machines and computers these days. Soon, maybe all of them...

Yeah it wont be long before even a lot of tech jobs are replaced by computers doing jobs that people do on computers now

Thanks for the reminder that governments need to set up a tax rate for automation to account for the increased levels of forcefully unemployed.
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Well, a college degree doesn't have the value it once did and a college education isn't as good as it used to be, that's for sure. However, that's not just the colleges' fault. The amount of people with degrees (which has steadily increased thanks to government loans, etc) has inundated the job market and the overall economy is relatively stagnant outside of a few industries.

That said, a bachelors is the minimum requirement for countless jobs these days. Granted, you could probably get around it through independent study, internships, etc, since at the end of the day employers really care about what you can do and somebody without a degree who can demonstrate their value is more likely to get a job than somebody with a degree who can't prove their worth beyond having a degree.

Otherwise there are certainly colleges that engage in scam practices, such as lying about job placement rates and the success of their graduates in order to attract students.

OhhhJa posted...

it seems to me that taking much cheaper online courses

Online colleges in theory might be a better value, but many -- if not most -- of them are bigger scams.

Viking_Mudcrap posted...

Hell no.

You know what a University title shows? That you have commitment and you stuck thru your education.

Potential employees love that shit.

Now, if you are planning on running your own business, then yes, you probably do not need a higher education baring you know how to read.

I love how a post promoting education has those kinds of mistakes. =p

Otherwise, for fields not looking for a degree (and even many requiring one), the "commitment" sought by employers usually takes the form of job history.

Viking_Mudcrap posted...

TES_Nut posted...

Criminally overpriced but not a scam.

Seems to me like they are not, otherwise no one would go to school and every University would be out of business.

Like, things can only be priced at whatever people are willing to pay.

Completely untrue. Given that the college industry is based heavily around loans to compensate for rising tuition, etc, the entire system has sometimes been compared to the Housing Bubble. And, of course, many colleges are directly subsidized by the government (in addition to being indirectly subsidized by government-backed loans)
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I wouldn't say it's a scam since that implies being deliberate, but the model doesn't work for the modern job market. Employers generally aren't going to be impressed by just having a degree anymore, it's far from a guarantee that it gets you a job.

I was in STEM, so I do think my degree helped me get a job, but the key word there is a job. Not multiple jobs. Maybe it was always this way, I don't know, but in my experience, since I got that job, when I interview for new jobs the employer rarely asks about or even acknowledges my education.

I think this is especially a problem because our university model focuses on making students well-rounded. It doesn't shield you from taking a weak position, like I ended up doing. I didn't really even get into my major courses until my junior year, and even then there were still plenty of non-major courses, plus some major courses in areas I don't care at all about, like large scale power/energy systems. In my entire education there was maybe a semester's worth of courses in stuff that would actually be useful for my areas of career interest. Imagine if that was all four years' worth instead, I wouldn't be stuck here completely unemployable and feeling like I've wasted the past six years of my life.

It seems like you're at best just expected to get your foot in the door with your degree and then you're on your own, so good fucking luck if you didn't pick a good company right out of college when you were mostly thinking about having a path to paying off your loan debt. And like, I understand that if you're like 20 years removed... but only a couple years in and it seemed like my degree was giving me no help. I don't get how after having work experience I was somehow a less attractive candidate than I was fresh out of college.

TaKun782 posted...

Does anyone recommend that I should get into book keeping? It will only take a year to get a certification at the local community college here. It's just something I thought about because I really don't have no other sense of direction to know what I really wanna do just yet... And I just mostly wanna make a bit more money and that's why I saw that maybe bookkeeping can be a possibility.

What exactly is "book keeping"?

I ask, because in my job I deal with Librarians who manage libraries for Universities/Goverment/etc and they all have Master Degrees.
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Viking_Mudcrap posted...

What exactly is "book keeping"?

Accounting, managing the books.
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Zeus posted...

I love how a post promoting education has those kinds of mistakes. =p

Otherwise, for fields not looking for a degree (and even many requiring one), the "commitment" sought by employers usually takes the form of job history.

I mean... if you are planning on working in a place that doesnt need a degree... why go to college? Maybe I am missing something, but I am not going to get a boats license if I don't plan on ever driving a boat.

But, if you are planning on going to a major corporation, a degree REALLY helps when comparing to other possible candidates.

The whole reason of my current position is that I went to college after my Bachelors and got my Six Sigma certifications - which lead me to a better pay and position.

Zeus posted...

Completely untrue. Given that the college industry is based heavily around loans to compensate for rising tuition, etc, the entire system has sometimes been compared to the Housing Bubble. And, of course, many colleges are directly subsidized by the government (in addition to being indirectly subsidized by government-backed loans)

I am with you, but my point was that they can charge that much, because people pay for it.

It is that simple.
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It's more like a racketeering. But businesses and goverments are also complicit. They threaten you with unemloyment until you fork over tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. We've seen PSAs against such scammers; like telling us to beware model or acting agencies that will ask you for money upfront. It's the same deal with higher education, yet the government and businesses are complicit in racketeering the entire public.
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funbot posted...

Not entirely. Go STEM and stay away from everything else and you'll be good.

This is false, and I hate when people act like STEM are the only useful degrees. Medicine, business, law, etc are all just as useful as STEM. The only truly useless degrees are Liberal Arts.

LinkPizza posted...

TaKun782 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

TaKun782 posted...

Does anyone recommend that I should get into book keeping? It will only take a year to get a certification at the local community college here. It's just something I thought about because I really don't have no other sense of direction to know what I really wanna do just yet... And I just mostly wanna make a bit more money and that's why I saw that maybe bookkeeping can be a possibility.

I've read that the job of bookkeeping will die soon...

How about accounting?

Actually, that one, too. Though, probably not as soon as bookkeeping. I think it was like a list of jobs that will soon die... It might not be 100% correct, though...

That's not even close to be correct. Accounting will never die or become a fully automated job. Every single business needs accountants to crunch their numbers, so it's an enormous profession with tons of opportunities for careers.

A lot of the accounting work is done on computers, but a lot of the work cannot be automated. There's a difference there. I am an accountant, and a lot of the stuff that I do I know for a fact could never be automated.

Most "professional" type careers could never actually be automated. It's generally just the unskilled, minimum wage labor that can be automated.

rogerskg1979 posted...

Every single business needs accountants to crunch their numbers

This sounds hilarious, given that crunching numbers is basically what a computer is as at its most basic of functions, and has been for a long time.

I sort of get your point though, like we need people to sort through documents and get the numbers entered into the system, but I don't see how that can't be automated. We already have ways for transactions and records to be undergone completely digitally, they just aren't fully implemented everywhere. The problem is less with whether the technology is there and more so how do we transition from current tech and methodologies, but that's going to happen in any field that we try to automate.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Viking_Mudcrap posted...

What exactly is "book keeping"?

Accounting, managing the books.

Bookkeeping and accounting are not actually the same thing. Bookkeeping is just one field within the overall accounting profession. It's similar to how primary care doctors, heart doctors, brain surgeons, pediatricians, dentists, nurses, etc are all various fields within the overall medical profession.

Bookkeeping does not require as much schooling or training as would be required for most other accounting careers. Bookkeeping is also generally a bit easier than most other accounting careers as well, and therefore the salary is lower. You can still make a good living being a bookeeper, don't get me wrong, but it would be much better to go for an actual 4 year accounting degree. If you just get certified as a bookkeeper, then bookkeeping is ALL you can do. If you get an actual accounting degree, then the doors open wide, and you can get a career in almost any accounting field. Some accounting jobs will require the CPA though, which is above and beyond just a 4 year accounting degree.

Chewster posted...

rogerskg1979 posted...

Every single business needs accountants to crunch their numbers

This sounds hilarious, given that crunching numbers is basically what a computer is as at its most basic of functions, and has been for a long time.

I sort of get your point though, like we need people to sort through documents and get the numbers entered into the system, but I don't see how that can't be automated. We already have ways for transactions and records to be undergone completely digitally, they just aren't fully implemented everywhere. The problem is less with whether the technology is there and more so how do we transition from current tech and methodologies, but that's going to happen in any field that we try to automate.

Plus we have things like Machine Learning which takes those numbers and can come up with logical analysis from them. I definitely don't understand the "some jobs can't be automated" thing, there is always a way to do it with modern technology, it is more about if it is actually cost effective to do it in the first place.

Automating someone who gets paid minimum wage is less of a concern then someone who's job can literally be done by a spreadsheet program.
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Chewster posted...

rogerskg1979 posted...

Every single business needs accountants to crunch their numbers

This sounds hilarious, given that crunching numbers is basically what a computer is as at its most basic of functions, and has been for a long time.

I sort of get your point though, like we need people to sort through documents and get the numbers entered into the system, but I don't see how that can't be automated. We already have ways for transactions and records to be undergone completely digitally, they just aren't fully implemented everywhere. The problem is less with whether the technology is there and more so how do we transition from current tech and methodologies, but that's going to happen in any field that we try to automate.

It's more than just sorting through documents and entering numbers though. Computers aren't good at catching when an error is made. You need a human for that. Auditing is basically the accounting field of catching errors and preventing future errors from being made. Auditing could never be fully automated. Things like that need a human factor.

Heck, I have spent most of this morning reconciling my company's statements against one of our clients. (I'm on my lunch break now, so that's why I'm posting here.) It's taken me longer than normal to get this reconciliation done because many of the client's numbers aren't matching our own. Yes, all that work is done on a computer in Excel spreadsheets, but a computer itself cannot reconcile the problems. Only a human can actually do that.

I would assume that those errors would start to disappear as humans become less involved in any transactions in the first place though.

rogerskg1979 posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Viking_Mudcrap posted...

What exactly is "book keeping"?

Accounting, managing the books.

Bookkeeping and accounting are not actually the same thing. Bookkeeping is just one field within the overall accounting profession. It's similar to how primary care doctors, heart doctors, brain surgeons, pediatricians, dentists, nurses, etc are all various fields within the overall medical profession.

Bookkeeping does not require as much schooling or training as would be required for most other accounting careers. Bookkeeping is also generally a bit easier than most other accounting careers as well, and therefore the salary is lower. You can still make a good living being a bookeeper, don't get me wrong, but it would be much better to go for an actual 4 year accounting degree. If you just get certified as a bookkeeper, then bookkeeping is ALL you can do. If you get an actual accounting degree, then the doors open wide, and you can get a career in almost any accounting field. Some accounting jobs will require the CPA though, which is above and beyond just a 4 year accounting degree.

Thanks man. You pretty much answered everything I wanted to hear. I only make 10.68 an hour so...im just trying to make a little more to live a bit more comfortable. Plus I fucking hate my job right now. Factory work and all.

rogerskg1979 posted...

Chewster posted...

rogerskg1979 posted...

Every single business needs accountants to crunch their numbers

This sounds hilarious, given that crunching numbers is basically what a computer is as at its most basic of functions, and has been for a long time.

I sort of get your point though, like we need people to sort through documents and get the numbers entered into the system, but I don't see how that can't be automated. We already have ways for transactions and records to be undergone completely digitally, they just aren't fully implemented everywhere. The problem is less with whether the technology is there and more so how do we transition from current tech and methodologies, but that's going to happen in any field that we try to automate.

It's more than just sorting through documents and entering numbers though. Computers aren't good at catching when an error is made. You need a human for that. Auditing is basically the accounting field of catching errors and preventing future errors from being made. Auditing could never be fully automated. Things like that need a human factor.

Heck, I have spent most of this morning reconciling my company's statements against one of our clients. (I'm on my lunch break now, so that's why I'm posting here.) It's taken me longer than normal to get this reconciliation done because many of the client's numbers aren't matching our own. Yes, all that work is done on a computer in Excel spreadsheets, but a computer itself cannot reconcile the problems. Only a human can actually do that.

Again, Machine Learning could absolutely do that. Feed a computer enough data and it will be able to come up with an algorithm for doing your job. Saying "only a human can actually do that" is just blissful ignorance.
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Viking_Mudcrap posted...

What exactly is "book keeping"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookkeeping

Viking_Mudcrap posted...

I mean... if you are planning on working in a place that doesnt need a degree... why go to college? Maybe I am missing something, but I am not going to get a boats license if I don't plan on ever driving a boat.

But, if you are planning on going to a major corporation, a degree REALLY helps when comparing to other possible candidates.

Outside of law, medicine, and a few other specific fields (mostly ones with government regulation), technically nothing "needs" a degree. The vast majority of majors arguably have little or no intrinsic value; many are in fields which traditionally never looked for a college degree (journalism being a great example) or cover a subject without any real practical application save teaching the subject.

And, given how many people take jobs unrelated to their degree, the necessity of a degree is somewhat debatable. Although I'm working within my major, I often suspect my career wouldn't have been significantly impeded if I never went to college. (And I haven't worked on my MBA after changing jobs to a company that didn't offer tuition reimbursement; at this point, I just think I probably won't ever bother with it.)

Viking_Mudcrap posted...

But, if you are planning on going to a major corporation, a degree REALLY helps when comparing to other possible candidates.

Unless you went to a top-tier school, most of those major corporations aren't going to give much of a shit about your degree. It won't be good enough to compete with candidates for the good jobs and won't help you much for the low-end jobs.

Not to mention that going to a top-tier school gives you the kind of deep connections that can often help you bypass the usual hiring process.

Viking_Mudcrap posted...

The whole reason of my current position is that I went to college after my Bachelors and got my Six Sigma certifications - which lead me to a better pay and position.

Which makes it really weird that you didn't know what bookkeeping was.

Viking_Mudcrap posted...

I am with you, but my point was that they can charge that much, because people pay for it.

It is that simple.

...which again isn't an argument that it's not overpriced. When prices have repeatedly jumped and people are forced to take on increasingly more substantial debt to keep up -- while the value has decreased -- that's a pretty strong argument for something being overpriced. Maybe in a world where the government wasn't backing massive loans then the market would actually work and colleges would be forced to adjust appropriately. However, when people can't afford to go to college -- and most can't -- then they take loans out. If government loans went away tomorrow, most colleges would collapse because they wouldn't be able to attract students who could pay those prices.

TaKun782 posted...

Thanks man. You pretty much answered everything I wanted to hear. I only make 10.68 an hour so...im just trying to make a little more to live a bit more comfortable.

Keep in mind that a lot of bookkeeping jobs can be equally low-paying. Before you decide to invest in a degree, you really need to look into how well the job actually pays in your area.

Also keep in mind that you could get individual program certifications. (ie, a QuickBooks certification might provide the same or greater value at lower cost than going to a community college for their bookkeeping program.)
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Most degrees are scams, to be sure.
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