Poll of the Day > feeling really beaten down right now, gotta rant

(+) Yeah! (+)

just graduated with a CS degree. and i'm finding it really hard to find work. just feel like what's the fucking point after all this, 5 years and tens of thousands of dollars I am barely employable. and I have good internship experience too. 80% of jobs here are in web dev. oops, didn't learn that in school. was i supposed to be studying the latest Angular React dot js whatever framework in my free time after my senior year programming assignments that I stayed late in the lab every other week to finish? what a fucking joke. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah fuck!!!!!
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web development is huge right now
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You're supposed to study employable skills in your own time, your degree just gives you the resources to do that.
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do some web dev labs online then put one online and blitz through interviews by going on about how much 'passion' you have to webdev. talk about your transferable skills only.

gl it's not ez
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Getting a degree doesn't mean you get a free job, it's just another part of a job application that puts you above other people. It'll be ok, man. There's always openings in the job market for design. Any sort of computer related career will require you to spend extra time staying up to date on multiple things, but you got this, you already got through college, right? Just a little extra work to get there now.

GanglyKhan posted...

Getting a degree doesn't mean you get a free job, it's just another part of a job application that puts you above other people. It'll be ok, man. There's always openings in the job market for design. Any sort of computer related career will require you to spend extra time staying up to date on multiple things, but you got this, you already got through college, right? Just a little extra work to get there now.

my brother's college actually said they would help with job placement. when he graduated they handed him a paper of local places hiring (none of which his degree applied to)
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Dang, sorry to hear that, man. I always thought people with cs degrees were in really high demand
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GanglyKhan posted...

Getting a degree doesn't mean you get a free job

exactly right. This is why college is a waste of money. He could have invested that money and got a better rate of return.

The real problem is that the college degree as basically become what the high school degree used to be - the default assumption that draws the line between the people who are going to wind up cleaning out sewers or working in fast food, and everyone else. Almost every worthwhile job pretty much REQUIRES you to have a college degree, but a college degree in and of itself doesn't guarantee you a worthwhile job at all (and it certainly doesn't guarantee you a job that will actually help you pay for the student debt you took on to get the degree in the first place).

Unfortunately, it's a fact of modern life, and won't change without some major sort of educational and occupational reform, but the level of sophistication required to actually FIX the problem is far beyond anything the government is actually capable of (see also, the same reason why health care will never be "fixed" in the US, and why universal health care is just a band-aid slapped on a much larger problem).

I know this isn't really helpful advice (especially if you're an introvert), but all I can really suggest is that you go out of your way to try and network as much as possible, make contacts in the field you want to work in, and start trying to learn more marketable skills on your own. Also, learn how to fancy up (read: lie about) your skills on your resume in order to make yourself a more desireable hire - a lot of jobs will ask for specific experience, but then provide on-the-job training for most of what they actually want anyway.

In the meantime, you're probably going to have to get a job in retail or something else "lower" than what you want just to pay the bills, while you make yourself a more enticing hire for the jobs you DO want. Yes, it sucks, but that's the world we live in, and complaining about it doesn't really change anything.


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College only gives you a piece of paper granting you a useless title. Learning actual skills and having a vocation is entirely your responsibility and noone elses.
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I don't think college is as important as people think. It's what the colleges want you to think of course. They don't care about your debt or the job market.

Thing is there are millions of blue collar jobs that only require tech school or some hands on training. Mechanics, carpentry, landscaping design, electrical, etc. Jobs that will always be in demand and can pay well.

I took classes for networking and web design but I chose to stay at my job because even the instructor agreed everyone and their cousin is doing this kind of work. He also mentioned that some jobs look less at the course work and want someone with experience or a willingness to work. You hear stories about these damn millenials that ask for weeks off right after getting a job, or they want 'easy days' and other silly requests. So when you look at it that way your attitude might just beat those stupid people with degrees.

DPsx7 posted...

Mechanics, carpentry, landscaping design, electrical, etc. Jobs that will always be in demand and can pay well.

lol having a degree in a high demand skill is no better than having a degree in a non high demand skill. mechanics are not in high demand because there are too many people who want to be a mechanic. The car dealership by me has had a sign outside for 6 months saying "now hiring detailer." Nobody wants to be a detailer. People want to be a mechanic. People want their cake and eat it too. They want a good job and want to be asked what they do for a living. They don't want to be asked what they do and have to say they are a detailer aka crumb vaccuum upper. They only jobs in high demand are the jobs nobody wants to do.

CharlesBronson posted...

They don't want to be asked what they do and have to say they are a detailer aka crumb vaccuum upper.

Detailing pertains to all aesthetic issues, so they'd scrub rust, repaint damage, repair upholstery, etc.
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CharlesBronson posted...

GanglyKhan posted...

Getting a degree doesn't mean you get a free job

exactly right. This is why college is a waste of money. He could have invested that money and got a better rate of return.

I don't think that college is a waste of money, but I do think that people have a wildly inaccurate outlook on it.

Should have built your connections up at those internships. It's about who you know, not what you know.
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This is why I never went to college. The fact they charge so much money for something that doesnt even guarantee to a job is just.. absolutely disgusting.

So, now Im stuck at a go-nowhere job that I dont like and is wearing me out physically where Im making a disgustingly low amount of money for how long Ive been there.

But at least I dont have piles of debt.
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rexcrk posted...

This is why I never went to college. The fact they charge so much money for something that doesnt even guarantee to a job is just.. absolutely disgusting.

So, now Im stuck at a go-nowhere job that I dont like and is wearing me out physically where Im making a disgustingly low amount of money for how long Ive been there.

But at least I dont have piles of debt.

I didn't go to college and I have a high paying government job. It's all about who you know.
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rexcrk posted...

So, now Im stuck at a go-nowhere job that I dont like and is wearing me out physically where Im making a disgustingly low amount of money for how long Ive been there.

But at least I dont have piles of debt

Sour Grapes: The Post

I demand a job for TC
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GanglyKhan posted...

rexcrk posted...

So, now Im stuck at a go-nowhere job that I dont like and is wearing me out physically where Im making a disgustingly low amount of money for how long Ive been there.

But at least I dont have piles of debt

Sour Grapes: The Post

Yup
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acesxhigh posted...

was i supposed to be studying the latest Angular React dot js whatever framework in my free time

yes

basically though, the CS degree (ignoring that it's a CS degree which is actually different from a SE degree) should put you in a position where you can teach yourself anything that you need to learn. for me it was already in second year when they were saying "in this course you will need to know <language>, so go learn it".

(tbh though I also have yet to learn Angular or React or Node.js)
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Sahuagin posted...

basically though, the CS degree should put you in a position where you can teach yourself anything that you need to learn.

well I think you're right and the industry should also have that assumption. so I could just learn what I need for the job I've been hired to do, once I know what tools I need, and it will be much faster. especially with a code base to look at and senior devs to question.
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acesxhigh posted...

80% of jobs here are in web dev.

Do you live in a major tech hub? If not, are you looking at jobs in other places?

And what about the company you interned for? Are they an option?
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I don't live in a major tech hub. the company I interned for was in a major tech hub though, by Canada's standards. but when I lived there I was just so lonely and sad. and I have friends and family and a girlfriend here. as long as there are some jobs here, I'm gonna go for it cause I don't want to leave everything behind. maybe giving myself a month or two before expanding my search to the closest tech hub.
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I beat the system by not having aspirations.

acesxhigh posted...

I don't live in a major tech hub. the company I interned for was in a major tech hub though, by Canada's standards. but when I lived there I was just so lonely and sad. and I have friends and family and a girlfriend here. as long as there are some jobs here, I'm gonna go for it cause I don't want to leave everything behind. maybe giving myself a month or two before expanding my search to the closest tech hub.

Yeah, I think in general it's a lot easier to land a good software job if you're willing to move to do so, but it can be hard. It still sucks being away from family, but I was at least only away from my girlfriend (now wife) for about a year before she moved out here as well.

I hope you manage to find something.
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I know how you feel, not really in the same exact situation, but similar. I was fortunate to find a job pretty easily out of college but it was a curse in disguise. I have the same feeling of "why did I waste all this time in school if I'm unemployable", just that being unemployable came a little later for me.

Anyways, I don't really have great advice for you because I haven't figured it out either. But I will say, on the plus side, you're still right out of college and people will look at you with a clean slate. For me, I think my experience is just a detriment, nobody cares much what you did in college anymore once you've had a job, and I find that people bring up my college work less and less as the years go by.

So if I had one piece of advice, it would be don't get desperate and take the first offer you get, unless of course it happens to seem like a genuinely great fit. I'm sure you've heard before "You just need to get some experience starting out and then it'll be easier to move up from there", but that isn't true if the experience is some career-killing bullshit. And I don't mean working like a retail temp job, but like a "software engineer" job where you don't do any real software engineering.

And with regards to not knowing shit you feel like you're supposed to know, don't let job descriptions get you down. Job descriptions are usually bullshit. They'll be written by HR people who don't know anything about tech, or be written more like a wishlist than a real list of requirements, or they're just the same one the company has been using for eight years and never bothered to rewrite with some current feedback on what the position actually entails. Or it's a combination of those things I described.

Just apply if you feel like it's something you're capable of and interested in, and have like 75-80% of the requirements. I get called back just as often for stuff where I am short of the requirements as ones where I feel like I met it perfectly. Though I'd caution against doing this for companies you're really interested in, you might want to wait for them to post something that you match up with better. Don't want to end up on their radar as a spammy applicant... I think (but most of them probably don't even realize/check).

dedbus posted...

I beat the system by not having aspirations.

No, you're living in the complete opposite. You can't lose because you're not playing. As a result, you can't win either.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

The real problem is that the college degree as basically become what the high school degree used to be - the default assumption that draws the line between the people who are going to wind up cleaning out sewers or working in fast food, and everyone else.

That makes me wonder if grad school is the "new college diploma." I guess it depends on the field.
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Yea, I feel worse having my degree than when I was studying for it. Job search is some pretty oppressive feeling.
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I learned HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.

I could use a refresher on the three, but I ignored coding in those for precisely two reasons.

1: Any website ideas I have won't be good at all.

2: I don't know how to get a website connected to the World Wide Web (and I am sure as hell not using a third-party server).

eating4fun posted...

Yea, I feel worse having my degree than when I was studying for it. Job search is some pretty oppressive feeling.

Studying was a pain in the ass a lot of the time but I always had a lot of fun in college, and looking back it went by way too fast. It's nice to feel like you're working towards something but at the same time get the opportunity to delay certain responsibilities for a while.

Too bad I didn't talk to professors much cause I'd consider grad school but now I don't think there's any clear path to me getting in

It also sucks when you apply for jobs and the employers doesn't even bother responding back to you.
Not even a 'Thank you for showing interest'.
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LeetCheet posted...

It also sucks when you apply for jobs and the employers doesn't even bother responding back to you.
Not even a 'Thank you for showing interest'.

I once felt this way but I've gotten to the point where I hate those replies tbh. It's just such a downer getting that new email notification only to read it and find out that it's a lame automated response. They almost never contain any useful information, so what's the point? If I don't hear anything back for a few weeks I'll just assume they moved on.

If I interviewed with the place, I do want to get some kind of formal rejection instead of being left hanging, but I assume you're talking about just after the initial resume submission.

Chewster posted...

LeetCheet posted...

It also sucks when you apply for jobs and the employers doesn't even bother responding back to you.
Not even a 'Thank you for showing interest'.

I once felt this way but I've gotten to the point where I hate those replies tbh. It's just such a downer getting that new email notification only to read it and find out that it's a lame automated response. They almost never contain any useful information, so what's the point? If I don't hear anything back for a few weeks I'll just assume they moved on.

If I interviewed with the place, I do want to get some kind of formal rejection instead of being left hanging, but I assume you're talking about just after the initial resume submission.

I've visited some employers and have personally handed them my papers after talking with them.
Before we parted the employer usually told me that they will call me back later.

After weeks of waiting for their calls, I give up.
First they tell you they'll call you back to get your hopes up just to be crushed afterwards.
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You need to be willing to move and you need to apply to jobs you don't think you're qualified for.
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LeetCheet posted...

It also sucks when you apply for jobs and the employers doesn't even bother responding back to you.

I applied to 45 jobs to get my first internship, rather not have a message back every time tbh. only after an interview I want to know asap
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GanglyKhan posted...

rexcrk posted...

So, now Im stuck at a go-nowhere job that I dont like and is wearing me out physically where Im making a disgustingly low amount of money for how long Ive been there.

But at least I dont have piles of debt

Sour Grapes: The Post

After what Ive been through, I think Im allowed to feel a little bitter
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