Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 182: Vesuvius of Mendacities

(+) Yeah! (+)

Eddv posted...

I just don't actually believe that things would be significantly better under FBI or CBP administration

You might be surprised by how much of a difference in culture there can be between different government agencies, and by how much that can affect their implementation of policy.
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redrocket posted...

Eddv posted...

I just don't actually believe that things would be significantly better under FBI or CBP administration

You might be surprised by how much of a difference in culture there can be between different government agencies, and by how much that can affect their implementation of policy.

I dont think you know who youre talking to <_<
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Corrik posted...

They are not jailing kids. They are holding them while their parents are going through the legal process. The DHS is the one who takes control of them. ICE just turns them over to them. Same with the parenthesis part.

You're right. My bad on that.
Here's one that definitely is on ICE - courthouse arrests:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-ice-plans-courthouse-arrests-20180131-story.html
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I do think that "abolish ICE" is probably a pretty big loser of a political message

if you're white, maybe

redrocket posted...

Eddv posted...

I just don't actually believe that things would be significantly better under FBI or CBP administration

You might be surprised by how much of a difference in culture there can be between different government agencies, and by how much that can affect their implementation of policy.

lol

Jakyl25 posted...

redrocket posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1012148000674729984?s=21

Sean Hannity just presented this agenda as a negative

Hannity is the Corrik of Fox News

It's just a nitpick, but I actually have a problem with, "solidarity with Puerto Rico" in that it is badly (weakly) worded.

Can you really be in solidarity with something that is literally a part of you? It would be like me saying, "I stand in solidarity with my ears!" It implies that we should assist Puerto Rico out of graciousness, when in fact it is an absolute moral obligation that we do so.

tl;dr: it should be phrased something more like, "uphold our obligations to our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico."

That says more about Hannitys graphics staffs interpret her stance on Puerto Rico

Reading that list and knowing its on Hannity made me instantly believe they actually just ripped those points from her website or something, because none of them really felt...spun?

But to the Puerto Rico point, I think its more of a somehow were not standing in solidarity with a literal part of our country that went through a horrendous disaster and we should definitely change that. Thats how I read it.
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Youre right, they are straight from her site

Solidarity with Puerto Rico

As a Congresswoman, Alexandria intends to fight for sweeping change in the way that the United States relates to Puerto Rico, including 5 main policy priorities:

1) A Marshall Plan for Puerto Rico, helping the island not only recover from Hurricane Maria, but thrive with modern infrastructure and renewable energy systems.

2) A community-led, sustainable, and just recovery - including protections for Puerto Ricos public education system from kindergarten to college and trade school.

3) An immediate waiver and full review of the Jones Act, which hamstrings the Puerto Rican economy with restrictions that other American communities do not have to face.

4) Cancellation of Puerto Ricos Wall Street debt: this debt has been accrued by vulture funds using irresponsible and unjust behavior reminiscent of the 2008 financial crisis.

5) Condemnation of the PROMESA Act, which handed over the island to La Junta, a corporate governance board installed with the support of my opponent and his private equity donors.

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Eddv posted...

We have people literally defending Corrik.

This fucking topic, mates.

Is this post referring to me or to JeffRaze?
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Housing is a tough problem because the typical free-market based solutions, like tax credits, increase the value of land, which in turn makes housing more expensive.
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Eddv posted...

If Lasa wants to play 10,001 'but what if the democrats adopted a party platform of sacrificing virgins to the aztec war gods' hypotheticals with red sox then I invite the two of you to go make your own topic like Smuffin has had the grace to.

done!

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/76758024
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Jakyl25 posted...

Then how do we beat him?

Wait until 2024 and hope he hasnt made it so he can be in office longer than 2 terms.
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With that out of the way...

LordoftheMorons posted...

I dont care about the quality of the arguments as much as getting lost in an endless looping argument for 200 posts

(This is the main reason that Lasa is super wrong about Seph being the worst; Seph does this very infrequently)

Just because A is worse than B doesn't mean B is not bad. I think this is my biggest issue, that people try so hard to chase red sox away from here (even dragging me along in their witch hunt) but regularly engage Sephy, seemingly not having a problem whatsoever with him posting here. You don't tolerate red sox, who may be annoying sometimes (I think so too) but generally approaches people in a respectful and civil manner. And you do tolerate Sephy, who is extremely inflammatory and habitually does stuff like accuse all the regulars in this topic of being autistic. By doing this you're making this topic incredibly toxic. "Well yeah but at least Sephy's arguments don't go on as long as red sox's" is not a sufficient defense for this, in my opinion.

But hey, if that's the way you guys want this topic to be...
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Which part of the quantity and length of fruitless red sox discussions being worse is hard for you to understand, Lasa?
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Which part of the quantity and length of fruitless red sox discussions being worse is hard for you to understand, Lasa?

The part where I 100% disagree with this being worse. Read my post again.
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They're all bad and all prevent serious discussion about politics taking place

Half the posts itt, including this one, are more about who should and shouldn't be engaged with

What we need here are genuine conservatives/republicans arguing in good faith - there aren't enough of these and must shoulder some blame for this mess because of their continued absence - and for nobody to engage red sox, Corrik, SephG, at all, at any level, literally with absolutely 0 responses, so it should be easier. Board-wide this is difficult but this is one topic with like 10 regular posters. It's on you guys to force them to change or leave and it's on genuine conservatives/Republicans to post in here and provide balance to prevent it becoming an echo chamber and to drown out, and render irrelevant, people who were known trolls well before this topic series began. But I think that will happen naturally, ie "genuine" conservatives will be more inclined to post here, if they see democrats/liberals running unchecked.

Sounds to me like some of you think it's dumb to engage Corrik, some of you think it's dumb to engage red sox, and some of you think it's dumb to engage SephG. Some both. Some all three. Kind of a venn diagram. Why not stop arguing about it and come to a compromise where you engage none of them, and start talking about politics.
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XIII_rocks posted...

They're all bad and all prevent serious discussion about politics taking place

Half the posts itt, including this one, are more about who should and shouldn't be engaged with

What we need here are genuine conservatives/republicans arguing in good faith - there aren't enough of these and must shoulder some blame for this mess because of their continued absence - and for nobody to engage red sox, Corrik, SephG, at all, at any level, literally with absolutely 0 responses, so it should be easier. Board-wide this is difficult but this is one topic with like 10 regular posters. It's on you guys to force them to change or leave and it's on genuine conservatives/Republicans to post in here and provide balance to prevent it becoming an echo chamber and to drown out, and render irrelevant, people who were known trolls well before this topic series began. But I think that will happen naturally, ie "genuine" conservatives will be more inclined to post here, if they see democrats/liberals running unchecked.

Sounds to me like some of you think it's dumb to engage Corrik, some of you think it's dumb to engage red sox, and some of you think it's dumb to engage SephG. Some both. Some all three. Kind of a venn diagram. Why not stop arguing about it and come to a compromise where you engage none of them, and start talking about politics.

The fact is. You just make asses out of yourselves. This is a discussion board. If you don't want to discuss with the people on the board then leave the board tbqh. There is so much whining and crying that so and so isn't worth your time. You act like everyone with a different opinion and that won't agree with your opinion as you explain your side that they are some fucking monster.

Newsflash. They aren't. I honestly do not grasp how a lot of you function in real life. Like, I can only imagine you going to a bar and you and some people talking politics and someone saying something you don't like and you stomping your feet and crying to everyone else to please ignore the person they are talking to.

I swear a lot of you live in little online bubbles. Not kidding.
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Corrik posted...

Like, I can only going to a bar and you and some people talking politics and someone saying something you don't like and you stomping your feet and crying to everyone else to please ignore the person they are talking to.

This isn't a great analogy because at a bar I'm usually with a group of friends. If I'm discussing politics with my friends and a complete stranger enters the group going "TRUMP IS THE BEST MAGA" I'll probably tell them to leave.

The real question is: why do you feel the need to post here (edit: I mean "here" as in "in this topic," not "on this board") so badly? There must be plenty of places on the Internet where people react less hostile to you than the people here do. You may rag on us for "not knowing how to function in real life," but in real life I generally leave a group of people if it's clear that I'm not welcome there.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

why do you feel the need to post here (edit: I mean "here" as in "in this topic," not "on this board") so badly?

This post is responsible for a worldwide shortage of thinking emojis
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XIII_rocks posted...

This post is responsible for a worldwide shortage of thinking emojis

If the majority of the people posting here have a serious problem with my posts I'll leave this topic series immediately.

Spoilers: you and a few other loud assholes aren't the majority.
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I've accepted that some people literally can't stop themselves when it comes to engaging in bad discussions in this topic series

With Corrik/SephG they want the temporary high of being morally and intellectually superior to someone who is obviously wrong. With Red Sox they just get baited hard and drawn into an endless conversation on semantics with someone who considers this topic series a social experiment. They're frustrated by the results, but overall derive a lot of entertainment from these dumb conversations even as they publicly say it's pointless and swear they'll never do it again.
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everyone should stop posting here immediately, the entire topic series should be deleted from the internet, and the internet should be launched into the sun, and the sun should be launched into a black hole
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He may not know how we function IRL, but we sure know how he does!

I agree with Jakyl's post in its entirety, and will personally take the vow.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

The real question is: why do you feel the need to post here (edit: I mean "here" as in "in this topic," not "on this board") so badly? There must be plenty of places on the Internet where people react less hostile to you than the people here do. You may rag on us for "not knowing how to function in real life," but in real life I generally leave a group of people if it's clear that I'm not welcome there

I can post wherever I want. It is a public discussion board. If I was doing anything wrong, I would be dealt with by moderators.

Just like if you are in a bar and a bartender would deal with someone out of line.

I am not out of line. I am simply discussing politics per the topic. You guys just have this irrational need to talk down to, insult, and act like people don't exist because they do not share your viewpoints.

Not understanding the other side and their viewpoints is why you are blind to politics. You can't see how things you don't want to happen can happen because you can't understand the views nor try to.

Why is Donald Trump president? Do you know why? I know I know. Cuz everyone is a fucking morons and terrible piece of shit people.

*Rolls eyes*.

You can't understand politics if you only know one side of it.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

This post is responsible for a worldwide shortage of thinking emojis

If the majority of the people posting here have a serious problem with my posts I'll leave this topic series immediately.

Spoilers: you and a few other loud assholes aren't the majority.

Now you sound like Vlado

Anyway, the implication there was how obvious the answer is to the question you asked Corrik.
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Corrik posted...

I can post wherever I want. It is a public discussion board.

You can, but I was asking why you want to.

If I was doing anything wrong, I would be dealt with by moderators.

"If I don't get modded there's nothing wrong with my posts" is faulty logic. Some of the worst trolls post here relentlessly without getting modded. To use your analogy, you can totally act like an asshole in a bar without getting kicked out. I've seen enough assholes in bars to know this.
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So lasa thinks marginalized minorities should be forced to leave places huh.
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XIII_rocks posted...

Anyway, the implication there was how obvious the answer is to the question you asked Corrik.

Oh OK, in that case I apologize for lashing out at you. I thought you were implying that I'm a hypocrite because I'm not leaving this topic despite being hated here or something.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

So lasa thinks marginalized minorities should be forced to leave places huh.

...no.

Do you have anything meaningful to contribute to this topic?
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I just lurk this place because the topic tends to annoy me (people with long enough memory know why it annoys me) but that was particularly rude of you to Corrik. Corrik and I don't share philosophy but he is one of the more thoughtful people in this topic and is very rarely snide.
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I dont get what is so hard about just scrolling past posts you dont agree with or dont want to respond to.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

Corrik posted...

I can post wherever I want. It is a public discussion board.

You can, but I was asking why you want to.

If I was doing anything wrong, I would be dealt with by moderators.

"If I don't get modded there's nothing wrong with my posts" is faulty logic. Some of the worst trolls post here relentlessly without getting modded. To use your analogy, you can totally act like an asshole in a bar without getting kicked out. I've seen enough assholes in bars to know this.

I like discussing politics with the other side. I like to understand their viewpoints and challenge their viewpoints.

Why do you people feel like you have to listen and spout the same stuff at each other over and over? Why is any viewpoint but your own so repugnant, terrible, etc?

And, yes, moderation is a good example to point to. If you feel the people who are trolling are not getting moderated with you marking them, then you are either wrong that they are trolling or you should be complaining about the moderators themselves.

This is probably the most liberal board on all of GameFAQs for politics. And you are complaining about the maybe 6 conservatives who post here. Like, really? Come on now.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I just lurk this place because the topic tends to annoy me (people with long enough memory know why it annoys me) but that was particularly rude of you to Corrik.

What was rude of me to Corrik?
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Like I dont agree with Corrik on almost anything but I dont see the value or encircling anyone who wants to talk to him and yelling SHAME until they agree to stop.
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Suprak, did you view that thread? Thoughts on it?
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I just lurk this place because the topic tends to annoy me (people with long enough memory know why it annoys me) but that was particularly rude of you to Corrik.

What was rude of me to Corrik?

Asking him why he stays. It was incredibly rude.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Asking him why he stays. It was incredibly rude.

Why the hell is that rude? Like I said, I personally wouldn't want to stay in a group of people when it's clear that I'm not welcome there. It says absolutely nothing negative about Corrik - for all you know I love Corrik and I think the people telling him to leave are a bunch of asses. It's just common sense.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I just lurk this place because the topic tends to annoy me (people with long enough memory know why it annoys me) but that was particularly rude of you to Corrik.

What was rude of me to Corrik?

Asking him why he stays. It was incredibly rude.

I mean, it is what it is. But, they make a politics containment topic. Then when people try to talk politics in it they complain you are talking about it here. And, also complain if you post your own politics topics not in the containment topic.

I feel like this is the greatest example of wanting things specifically your way.

"Too many topics we will post all politics here"
"Why aren't you using the containment thread it exists for a reason"
"OMG why do you even post here"

Like ???? It is baffling.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Asking him why he stays. It was incredibly rude.

Why the hell is that rude? Like I said, I personally wouldn't want to stay in a group of people when it's clear that I'm not welcome there. It says absolutely nothing negative about Corrik - for all you know I love Corrik and I think the people telling him to leave are a bunch of asses. It's just common sense.

The implication is clear and if you don't want to admit to it I will not engage in mental gymnastics with the gold medalist of mental gymnastics.
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Corrik posted...

Suprak, did you view that thread? Thoughts on it?

Not yet!

I was on the Donald for a while yesterday so I had my share of crazy. Maybe today.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

The implication is clear and if you don't want to admit to it I will not engage in mental gymnastics with the gold medalist of mental gymnastics.

"I misinterpreted your post and instead of admitting that I'll just accuse you of being the gold medalist of mental gymnastics." OK.
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Dude, my favorite hobby is correctly analyzing text to find liars in competitive forum games. I am just saying if this was a game of mafia I could have you lynched in like 3 minutes.
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TeamLiquid

In keeping with the spirit of the now defunct US Presidential Election thread, this shall be a common ground for the discussion of issues of US political interest. From economics to political philosophy to mere current event/news interpretation, everything is fair game, given that standards of productive discourse are upheld. The guiding backbone of the thread will be current events posting, and I will do my best to keep this OP updated with information pertinent to the matters at hand. In short, this thread is very ambitious in scope and in breadth, so here are a number of thread guidelines I've devised with expedient and efficient dialogue in mind. Many of these sound similar; however, I've found that when it comes to nurturing effective communication, one cannot be redundant enough.

The Rules

1. Show, don't tell, and listen.
This one sounds simple enough, but political discussions on TL suffer from an ignorance of this clich and oftentimes devolve accordingly. There is a huge difference between saying Iran is a bloodthirsty despotic state and showing how Iran could be considered bloodthirsty given particular evidence. If you can't tell the difference, don't bother posting. Furthermore, if you are here to simply pontificate, please do so elsewhere. The entire point of a forum such as TL is to foster communication, and posters who seek only to talk at others instead of with them will be ignored.

2. No arguments in absentia.
In other words, do not argue using language that presumes conclusions that not everyone might share. If you think religion is hogwash, then intelligently and deliberately point out how you have come to this conclusion. Do not simply say religion is garbage, for it makes you look like a presumptuous fool and it degrades the entire conversation. If every poster attempted to be less unequivocal and more expository, the world of TL would be a better place.

3. Sources: A common sense approach.
We all know that the strictures of an online text based communication platform make certain sorts of evidential back and forth rather difficult to perform correctly. In keeping with this, I would ask that everyone simply use their heads. Wikipedia, contrary to some belief, is a good source for most things, though feel free to dispute Wiki's page specific sourcing rigor if you find error. Feel free to cite both standard and non-standard news sites and op-ed journalism; be ready, though, for challenges and be prepared to put the ideas of your source material into your own words. We don't need or want Fox News or Huff Post parrots.

4. Keep the hyperbole to a dull roar.
Because I just love how that was originally worded.

5. Be evocative, not mean.
Bashing will not be tolerated; well conceived arguments that reveal the error in your opposition's ways will be.

Maybe you guys could learn a little from TeamLiquid's US politics megathread. Where people of all sides come to discuss things for like 373 pages worth of posts. = /
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Literally accusing me of being a liar. Wow.
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Thank God this topic is almost over.

Though I feel like we end up saying that every time.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dude, my favorite hobby is correctly analyzing text to find liars in competitive forum games. I am just saying if this was a game of mafia I could have you lynched in like 3 minutes.

You are probably wasting your time with this. Just gonna turn it into an argument with ya. = /. You didn't agree with his viewpoint and countered his.
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Corrik posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dude, my favorite hobby is correctly analyzing text to find liars in competitive forum games. I am just saying if this was a game of mafia I could have you lynched in like 3 minutes.

You are probably wasting your time with this. Just gonna turn it into an argument with ya. = /. You didn't agree with his viewpoint and countered his.

I created my own topic.
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Here's something that can make everyone happy:
https://i.redd.it/c7txzfbvtp611.gif

Portuguese president meeting Trump yesterday.
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The Mana Sword posted...

Here's something that can make everyone happy:
https://i.redd.it/c7txzfbvtp611.gif

Portuguese president meeting Trump yesterday.

Fucking lol.
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Donald was SHOOK.
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Somebody else take 500 before me.
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