Poll of the Day > 28 y/o UGLY Indiana Teacher QUITS because he REFUSES to Acknowledge TRANS KIDS!

(+) Yeah! (+)

adjl posted...

You certainly seem to think that your opinion is more valid than that of doctors and psychologists, without comparable credentials. Skepticism can be healthy, certainly, but not when you have more reason to trust science than not. Otherwise, you get anti-vaxxers.

First of all, medical professionals give sex change surgery because they believe it is the best way to treat their mental condition, not as an affirmation of their belief.

Secondly, Doctors have done some hella sketchy shit over the centuries and some fields are in strong philosophical conflict, one doctor OKing something faaaaaar from makes it ethical.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Secondly, Doctors have done some hella sketchy s*** over the centuries and some fields are in strong philosophical conflict, one doctor OKing something faaaaaar from makes it ethical.

So let them sort that conflict out. You're concerned about the political climate influencing research on the matter? That risk exists here for no other reason than that (primarily religious conservative) people have decided that transgenderism is wrong and must be opposed, which in turn created a reactionary movement pushing for acceptance. If not for that, it wouldn't even be a political issue.

Everyone needs to shut up and let science do its job. If you have reason to believe your doctor hasn't done their due diligence in considering the science when treating you, you can sue them for malpractice, and recommend that your friends and loved ones do the same if they've been similarly wronged, but otherwise, let doctors figure medicine out. Collectively, they know what they're doing, even if there are a few dissenters or less competent folks here and there.
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Lmao this dude got wrecked because he tried to bully a kid. Fair. Next.
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Full Throttle posted...

28 y/o UGLY Indiana Teacher QUITS because he REFUSES to Acknowledge TRANS KIDS!

Full Throttle posted...

28 y/o Former Orchestra Teacher, John Kluge from Indiana said he was forced to QUIT because he refused to refer to transgender students by their preferred NAME rather than their birth name!!

Not the same thing.

Full Throttle posted...

He said he reached a compromise with the administration that allowed him to refer to all students by their LAST NAME but a few months ago said he would no longer be allowed to do that and said he would rather QUIT and live by the name of God than to work for something he says is wrong and shouldn't be "normalized"

tbh, unless they have family in the same class, it makes more sense to refer to students by their last name anyway. Shame that they reneged on that because they wanted to get rid of the guy because he's Christian.
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Zeus posted...

Shame that they reneged on that because they wanted to get rid of the guy because he's Christian.

There's an olympic-calibre conclusion jump if ever I've seen one.
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adjl posted...

Zeus posted...

Shame that they reneged on that because they wanted to get rid of the guy because he's Christian.

There's an olympic-calibre conclusion jump if ever I've seen one.

Thanks, but if it wasn't a matter of his beliefs, then why else would they renege knowing that it would most likely get rid of him?
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I like how the alt right thinks their rights are being violated when they have to respect the rights of others.

BlackScythe0 posted...

I like how the alt right thinks their rights are being violated when they have to respect the rights of others.

There's no law saying you have to call somebody by their preferred name or pronoun.
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Zeus posted...

adjl posted...

Zeus posted...

Shame that they reneged on that because they wanted to get rid of the guy because he's Christian.

There's an olympic-calibre conclusion jump if ever I've seen one.

Thanks, but if it wasn't a matter of his beliefs, then why else would they renege knowing that it would most likely get rid of him?

They could have simply not liked him. Or maybe he was a dick to other on a daily basis. Its is a pretty big leap to just assume they wanted to get rid of him just for being a Christian...
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Zeus posted...

tbh, unless they have family in the same class, it makes more sense to refer to students by their last name anyway. Shame that they reneged on that because they wanted to get rid of the guy because he's Christian.

It couldn't be that other students had issues being only reffered to as their last name or that he was selectively applying the policy singling out the student even more.

Personally, I don't answer to my last name. I will answer to other random first names that have nothing to do with me before I answer to my last name.
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slacker03150 posted...

Zeus posted...

tbh, unless they have family in the same class, it makes more sense to refer to students by their last name anyway. Shame that they reneged on that because they wanted to get rid of the guy because he's Christian.

It couldn't be that other students had issues being only reffered to as their last name or that he was selectively applying the policy singling out the student even more.

Personally, I don't answer to my last name. I will answer to other random first names that have nothing to do with me before I answer to my last name.

That seems weird. I would answer to my last name before random peoples first name. Haha. I answer to my last name a lot , but I was always use to gym teachers doing that. And then the military... Plus, both my first and last name can work as both first or last...
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Zeus posted...

Thanks, but if it wasn't a matter of his beliefs, then why else would they renege knowing that it would most likely get rid of him?

Maybe because some of the kids didn't like having this one teacher use their last names? That's quite a bit more plausible than that the school's administration was plotting from day 1 to get rid of this pesky Christian, especially where there's a very good chance there are other Christians on staff.

Revelation34 posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

I like how the alt right thinks their rights are being violated when they have to respect the rights of others.

There's no law saying you have to call somebody by their preferred name or pronoun.

I like how the alt right thinks their rights are being violated when they're asked to be polite in a manner that isn't enforced legally.
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adjl posted...

I like how the alt right thinks their rights are being violated when they're asked to be polite in a manner that isn't enforced legally.

It's not so different from what Canada has passed into law. Is it any surprise that it would worry people to see their institutions going down the same path?
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adjl posted...

I like how the alt right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M" data-time="
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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

adjl posted...

I like how the alt right thinks their rights are being violated when they're asked to be polite in a manner that isn't enforced legally.

It's not so different from what Canada has passed into law. Is it any surprise that it would worry people to see their institutions going down the same path?

It's not a surprise, but it is a stupid thing to worry about. Like just call people what they want to be called. There's no good reason not to do that.
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Revelation34 posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

I like how the alt right thinks their rights are being violated when they have to respect the rights of others.

There's no law saying you have to call somebody by their preferred name or pronoun.

There is no law that says you can't be fired for bigotry.

BlackScythe0 posted...

There is no law that says you can't be fired for bigotry.

Yes but it isn't illegal. Neither have any actual rights.
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Revelation34 posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

There is no law that says you can't be fired for bigotry.

Yes but it isn't illegal. Neither have any actual rights.

Doesnt have to be. I mean, if the school has a rule about it, either he listens or gets fired... or quits like he did, I guess...
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Revelation34 posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

There is no law that says you can't be fired for bigotry.

Yes but it isn't illegal. Neither have any actual rights.

Tell that to the bigot.

He submitted a tentative resignation because officials threatened to fire him and said "They're acting as if i have resigned, even though i'm pleading No, i'm not dead yet. I still want to work there but i want my rights back"

BlackScythe0 posted...

He submitted a tentative resignation because officials threatened to fire him

Well they're idiots for threatening to fire him.
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LinkPizza posted...

Plus, both my first and last name can work as both first or last...

My last name is also a first name. It is probably one of the reasons I have grown to hate it so much.
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slacker03150 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Plus, both my first and last name can work as both first or last...

My last name is also a first name. It is probably one of the reasons I have grown to hate it so much.

Technically, my first, middle, and last are all first names. My first and last can also be last names. My middle name might also be a last name, probably...Anyway, because of that, my military ID was kind of confusing to some...
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Revelation34 posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

He submitted a tentative resignation because officials threatened to fire him

Well they're idiots for threatening to fire him.

I don't see why that would be the case.

Maybe some people feel uncomfortable calling someone by a different name because they've never had to deal with it before? It's a two way street. Transgenders can't just demand 100% agreement out of the gate, it's about giving a little and taking a little. Quitting because of it? Definitely too far. But I think it makes sense that some individuals might feel weird using different names and pronouns, so a little patience would help them out a lot. This shift in society affects everyone, not just those with gender identity circumstances.

GanglyKhan posted...

Maybe some people feel uncomfortable calling someone by a different name because they've never had to deal with it before? It's a two way street. Transgenders can't just demand 100% agreement out of the gate, it's about giving a little and taking a little. Quitting because of it? Definitely too far. But I think it makes sense that some individuals might feel weird using different names and pronouns, so a little patience would help them out a lot. This shift in society affects everyone, not just those with gender identity circumstances.

I can understand different pronouns, but that doesnt really make sense for names. Since people can have name changes. Not to mention, as a teacher, you have to be use to saying many different names for all the students. It was probably a somewhat common name. He may have even had another student with the same name...
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LinkPizza posted...

I can understand different pronouns, but that doesnt really make sense for names. Since people can have name changes. Not to mention, as a teacher, you have to be use to saying many different names for all the students. It was probably a somewhat common name. He may have even had another student with the same name...

No? I feel like if someone knew Todd for 2 years then he/she is asking them to call him/her Tabitha out of the blue one day, they might find that a little difficult to, pardon the phrasing, transition their day-to-day speech in a way that's natural and comfortable. It's a strange concept for some people and bashing them over the head (not saying you are) won't help with making this a mainstream piece of culture.

GanglyKhan posted...

LinkPizza posted...

I can understand different pronouns, but that doesnt really make sense for names. Since people can have name changes. Not to mention, as a teacher, you have to be use to saying many different names for all the students. It was probably a somewhat common name. He may have even had another student with the same name...

No? I feel like if someone knew Todd for 2 years then he/she is asking them to call him/her Tabitha out of the blue one day, they might find that a little difficult to, pardon the phrasing, transition their day-to-day speech in a way that's natural and comfortable. It's a strange concept for some people and bashing them over the head (not saying you are) won't help with making this a mainstream piece of culture.

Maybe. Maybe not. Ive never seen people have a problem with it. But maybe its the people Im around. Besides, I think it really depends on how long he knew the student for that to take effect. For example, in your example, you said two years. But it was probably less than a year. Maybe a couple of months. But I guess its possible. Though I dont believe that is the case here...
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GanglyKhan posted...

LinkPizza posted...

I can understand different pronouns, but that doesnt really make sense for names. Since people can have name changes. Not to mention, as a teacher, you have to be use to saying many different names for all the students. It was probably a somewhat common name. He may have even had another student with the same name...

No? I feel like if someone knew Todd for 2 years then he/she is asking them to call him/her Tabitha out of the blue one day, they might find that a little difficult to, pardon the phrasing, transition their day-to-day speech in a way that's natural and comfortable. It's a strange concept for some people and bashing them over the head (not saying you are) won't help with making this a mainstream piece of culture.

There's a very significant difference, however, between having trouble remembering a name or pronoun change and refusing to acknowledge the change. Most people are pretty understanding of how hard it can be to break habits once they're formed. That's not what's being objected to here. So long as you respect the request enough to make an effort, you're not part of the problem.

Revelation34 posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

He submitted a tentative resignation because officials threatened to fire him

Well they're idiots for threatening to fire him.

You wouldn't fire a teacher who was abusing one of his students?
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LinkPizza posted...

Maybe. Maybe not. Ive never seen people have a problem with it. But maybe its the people Im around. Besides, I think it really depends on how long he knew the student for that to take effect. For example, in your example, you said two years. But it was probably less than a year. Maybe a couple of months. But I guess its possible. Though I dont believe that is the case here...

Try to not take this personally, but with this topic, it's not really about me or you, we're both on board already. It would be completely false to say that "there are zero people who are uncomfortable, but able to feel more relaxed about it", and that should be the focus that society needs to take. I see people claiming that "oh, he's an asshole for not using that person's pronoun" but those same people don't stop to think that the only person who isn't with the newage on this situation is the same person they're berating, which leads to further unfamiliarity and less motivation to be wholly inclusive.

I can see that I'm being cyclical here, so I'll keep quiet on the matter after this lol

BlackScythe0 posted...

I don't see why that would be the case.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/3-poll-of-the-day/76681898/902813521

adjl posted...

You wouldn't fire a teacher who was abusing one of his students?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M" data-time="
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But if the school gives you rules to follow, whether you agree or not, you follow them. If not, then they will threaten to fire you. So, it still makes sense...
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Revelation34 posted...

adjl posted...

You wouldn't fire a teacher who was abusing one of his students?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M" data-time="

Deliberately calling somebody a name they don't like is pretty textbook bullying.
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Didnt read the whole topic but while it may feel weird to refer to Tommy as Susy instead, it shouldnt be that different from non-trans students having preferred names. I mean for instance, here at my place of work there's a guy named William but he prefers to be called Blake. So honestly this shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Just hope these "kids" are not doing hormone treatments under the age of 16 because you know "mental maturity" and the like. Because God forbid society somehow ends up finding it okay for teens under 16 to sterilize themselves but not have sexual intercourse.

dioxxys posted...

Just hope these "kids" are not doing hormone treatments under the age of 16 because you know "mental maturity" and the like. Because God forbid society somehow ends up finding it okay for teens under 16 to sterilize themselves but not have sexual intercourse.

I'm not sure where the ethical consensus is going to end up when it comes to minors. On one hand, gender identity is typically established long before puberty, so it's not like kids can't credibly express dysphoric feelings, plus the whole process gets much easier and less damaging if puberty blockers are used instead of having to change hormones once they're at post-pubescent levels. On the other, transitioning is a major medical choice with permanent consequences, including sterility, and letting minors make decisions like that is typically frowned upon (many doctors will refuse to perform sterilization operations on anyone young enough to have any chance to change their mind).

If I had to make a guess, I'd say the standard will be to defer transitioning until later outside of particularly urgent cases (i.e. imminent suicide). That's purely a guess, though. It could very easily end up going either way.
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