Board 8 > seabassdebeste watches hunter x hunter 2011 (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's so minor and ultimately doesn't matter at all, but... Kalluto is a boy
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holy shit

i compared the penguin and turtle chimerants to piggy from lord of the flies

penguin dude's name was peggy
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not sure it was actually intentional.

Wasn't exactly similar in importance, but maybe
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SeabassDebeste posted...

holy shit

i compared the penguin and turtle chimerants to piggy from lord of the flies

penguin dude's name was peggy

When I first read your post where you made that comparison, I had to read the sentence twice since I forgot Piggy was a LofF character and I thought you were literally just saying their names. >_>
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This topic is such an awesome read.
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Episodes 98-104

Recap: G/K sneak into East Norteau, observed by Melereon the Chameleon dude. Realizing that the entire city is being picked off, Killua offers to attempt to save the populace - but it involves splitting up. Gon is beset by scrub enemies and Killua must contend with the people working under Hagya's scout Flutter, including an octopus named Ikalgo and a brother/sister pro darts voodoo pair. When the dust clears, Gon is propositioned by Melereon, and a badly injured Killua is saved by a face-turning Ikalgo.

Meanwhile, Cheetu races back toward the King, and he's saved from Knuckle/Shoot by Flutter/Hagya. They escort him back to the King and dispel the APR. Morel, who has been attempting to contain Pitou's countrywide manipulation of her puppets, ends up getting into a fight with Cheetu - and is taken into a separate reality via a new ability of his. Morel overcomes the alternate reality by exploiting how poorly thought out it is with respect to Cheetu's disposition, so Cheetu runs off yet again for new powers. Knov finally disables Flutter.

In the palace, the King masters strategy board gaming, defeating the country's grandmasters at Chess, Shogi, and Go, and then killing them when they stop posing a challenge. But when it comes to game #4, Gungi, he's thus far unable to beat the little blind girl with the snot. Disturbingly... he loves it.

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Let's be real here, there isn't a ton to cover in terms of Gon's enemies. They're generic as hell and fodder-ish level and for some reason Gon is extremely reluctant to kill them. He makes it a point to tie the snake up against a tree and to comment that his anatomy will prevent him from starving to death; he clearly only KOs his airborne owl/bat pursuers (though it's fucking hilarious that the owl goes "gorilla mode" on him).

I'm not a fan of this. This friend-to-all-living-things morality feels extremely generic-shounen-hero versus the Gon we saw in the Hunter Exam, who observed calmly as birds would kill fish, or who learned how other hunters would stalk and badly injure their prey. (Those people Gon watched wound up surviving, but Gon couldn't have known that before he'd decided not to intervene.) And this is all after Gon has directly told Kite that he'll have no problem killing Chimera Ants. It's a disappointing shift in the tone of an animalistic protagonist.

However, the show isn't ready to give up on Gon's morality just yet. I love the Gon/Melereon relationship so far. Melereon's mind is fucking blown that Gon trusts him as quickly and as easily as he does, and I'm still terrified that Melereon will betray Gon and have to get himself killed. But Gon notes that one reason he's eager to trust Melereon is that it's not a high-leverage proposition - because if Melereon is setting him up, then he'll have little qualm about killing Melereon.

That doesn't seem to be the direction we're heading. As Gon points out, Melereon is intensely human - he has insecurities, smugness, and weaknesses, and he wants to trust Gon as badly as he wants to be trusted. In a particularly funny sequence, he tries to get Gon to ask about his motivations. When Gon appears not to ask, thinking Melereon wants to defer the question, Melereon gets frustrated and decides to explain himself. Of course, the strongest evidence that Melereon is against the bad guys, other than his story about his relationship with Peggy - he shares the full extent of his powers This is a dude who's ready to lay it all on the line.
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Tying this back to Gon's morality - he seems to have no objection against killing the King using a sneak-attack (unlikely the bizarre insistence in Greed Island on fighting the Bomber one-on-one). And you can tell that the author hasn't given up on Gon being feral - because in response to Gon's telling him that he's the most human of the chimerants, Melereon responds that he picked Gon because Gon is the most animalistic of the humans.

These episodes also give us some more context on the setting, thanks mostly to one of the show's less awfully executed info-dumps by Killua. (It still goes on long, which the show is aware of, as Gon's ears eventually begin to steam up.)

What we learn about East Gorteau is essentially that it, like NGL, is a corrupt, dictator-ruled state where cell phone use is banned in the general populace. It's a clear North Korea stand-in, complete with Kim Jong Il as the now-deceased leader. The lack of transparency and easy communication, of course, makes it a perfect place for the King to stage his first takeover - when Killua's disruptions are noticed, martial law is swiftly enacted and the propaganda machine is unleashed. Killua's vigilante forays are great to watch - a benevolent side of the assassin, carried out independently - but his Paul Revere THE CHIMERA ANTS ARE COMING line falters once the broadcast is made.

Flutter is an incredibly frustrating opponent. As Gon found, it's really fucking hard to fight a flying enemy, even a weaker one, and this one has no intent on engaging at all, but rather sends hordes minions to do the dirty work.

Now I don't want to take away from the Nen darts game - a really bizarre but visually exciting concept - but watching Killua repeatedly suffer death from a thousand cuts isn't that fun. What is amazing: Ikalgo, the self-loathing octopus. He's drawn with extremely bold lines, making him more cartoon-y than the rest of the characters in the anime. Without a vessel from which to snipe, he's fairly helpless - unable even to survive underwater, because his own people will tear him apart. He's loyal enough that he won't sell out his people, whom he doesn't even particularly like, and his only regret is to be reborn a squid so he won't have to be so self-loathing. So it's perfect when Ikalgo turns face with literal tears in his eyes at being accepted as an octopus.

I'm just really amazed by how well this show has fleshed out its minor characters this arc. From Colt, to Knuckle, to Melereon, to Ikalgo, I'm enjoying the less climactic parts of the journey a ton. Ikalgo's faceturn isn't exactly leaving me teary-eyed like Colt discovering the baby, but it's hilarious and feel-good-y and I'm fascinated to see what happens next.

Knov and Morel don't play ginormous roles here, but Morel's mental domination of Cheetu is spectacular. I love how quickly he identifies Cheetu's weakness - his impatience - and exploits it ruthlessly. Cheetu's impetuousness is a fun watch - his enthusiastic leg-kicking while reading manga is delightfully stupid in a battle whose stakes he chose. Also, the Nen smoke forms are an awesome special ability.

I love sports and gaming anime due to how overdramatic they can become for relatively tame events. Whether it's Hikaru no Go or Kuroko no Basket or Yu-Gi-Oh!, you can count on the mundane becoming massive. I can't help the feeling of hype and dread that creeps in when the King prepares his assault on the Girl (whose snot bothers the fuck out of me). The rising anticipation as he lays out his plan, the cogs turning as the plan seems to fall into place, the climactic moment when he lays what he believes to be his decisive piece... followed by hesitation... and his plan being crushed.
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Thus far, the the Girl is an amazing veneer of quietness and humility. As she explains how she hesitated not because she didn't know what to do or because she was mocking the King - but rather because she loved her technique so much - it just gives this fascinating glimpse into a different morality system. It seems possible that this girl will never have children, and in such a case, how do you pass yourself on?

Even more interesting is how tied up the King is becoming with her. She takes on a massive role in the new ED, and it's clear that he still has a long way to go before he surpasses her. He's taking an actual joy in the process that he thus far can't comprehend - presumably he only started these games to stimulate his mind and prove how superior he was to others - and this delightful challenge is all bound to one little foolish girl. It's a humanizing effect on a monstrous being. The King makes it a big point that his cerebral games are about reading his opponent and disrupting their rhythm. Thus far, his physical violence has been very obvious and hasn't relied on reading his enemies at all, but rather on overwhelming power.

So what about this girl? How will she affect the plot? How much more will she affect the King? And is she doomed to be a stain on the carpet too? (And does she use Nen? It's stated early on that Nen-users are found wherever mastery of an art is found.)

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* The ED changed a few episodes before we were introduced to the little girl, and my first thought was that she was a grown version of the kid that Colt is raising.

* Gon tries to divide 5 million by 10 thousand. It's a rough time. I do like the way that the math informs G/K's strategy.

* Killua gets farted on, but it only makes him look more badass with singed hair.

* There's a discussion about the politics of the Hunter Association. I'm beginning to accept that some parts of the world are only whispers, but it's cool to know the factors affecting the plot.

* Pitou looks like the freaking Eye of Sauron up there and I love it.

* When you know that an opponent is a scrub: they narrate themselves, either internally or externally, with shit like this: "I USE MY STRONG TAIL SPRING TO MOVE AROUND THE TREES. IN THE DARKNESS MY MOVEMENT CANNOT BE FOLLOWED!!!" This actually happened.

* Gon yelling reminds me of Uvogin.

* In this stretch of episodes, we get:

ULTRASOUND DISSONANCE - SECRET NOISE
DEATHGAME - NEEDLEFISH DE DARTS
GOD'S ALIBI - PERFECT PLAN
GOD'S ACCOMPLICE
PURPLE HAZE SOLDIERS - DEEP PURPLE (Morel is a Hendrix dude, I see)
FOUR DIMENSIONAL APARTMENT COMPLEX - HIDE AND SEEK
RENTAL POD - IOU DISPENSER... SATELLITE DRAGONFLIES

* Small points about Killua's trials - 1. that sniper rifle's movements are fantastic and 2. I love that Killua for some reason is a professional darts rules lawyer.

* Small point in Shoot's favor... Knuckle gets so upset about not doing anything that he's spitting with rage, not letting Shoot get in a word... Shoot actually agrees with Knuckle.

* Knov is the real MVP, taking out that fucking irritant Flutter.

* "I would have expected this to be humiliating on a new level... but instead I am getting excited... I don't understand why."
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These are the write ups dreams are made of.

This is pretty much where togashi learns how to write an almost ensemble cast.
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I don't know how you are able to keep your thoughts so clear and collected while you're watching. I always forget half of my thoughts about ten minutes after an episode. At least part from the major thoughts.

Do you keep a journal while you're watching?
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Thanks guys.

And yeah. I keep a real-time reaction journal as if I'm chatting with a friend on AIM. Because I've been watching several at a time, I wind up having a lot more line items per episode than make it into my writeups. When I did one-by-one writeups like in Buffy and Avatar, I'd get almost every reaction into the full writeup.

Here's an example one for episode 98.

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hagya's crew suffering - a different look on villanis. no way the bad guys actually trust him of course.

secret police/informant system :( but killua does go on too long... resulting in gon overheating again lmao. it DOES go on too long.

"My brother told me about it."

a citizen's house that had an execution and a coverup... it has a portrait of the cult of personality leader in it :/

no cell phones allowed

peijing is the capital. so another asian city led by the worst fucking representative of the race

gon trying to divide 5MM/10K :3

puppets should be easier than nen users. but breaking them free... means revealing yourself. moral dilemma! killua presents it... then asks GON 'what do you think?' killua IMMEDIATELY agrees! but he's already got the contingency

flashes to pitou's eyes so creepy!

gon's hero complex didn't exist in the hutner exam arc. he willingly watched some dudes get near-killed while trying to learn :/

"I don't want to fight them both at the same time. I definitely don't want to fight the silver-haired kid on my left."

wait the chameleon scout was on its way but WTF IS THIS JAFAR-GENIE THING

I USE MY STRONG TAIL SPRING TO MOVE AROUND THE TREES. IN THE DARKNESS MY MOVEMENT CANNOT BE FOLLOWED!!! lmfaooooooooooooooooooooooooo

"he can go 10 days without starving to death" really? you're not killing him???
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SeabassDebeste posted...

gon's hero complex didn't exist in the hutner exam arc. he willingly watched some dudes get near-killed while trying to learn :/

Oh reminds me, I guess I interpret it that in the hunter exam, everyone was a willing participant who knew death was on the line. Innocents might be a different matter.

Edit: I guess this is in matters of villains, in which Gon has wanted to save them before, but I guess he makes exceptions.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Thanks guys.

And yeah. I keep a real-time reaction journal as if I'm chatting with a friend on AIM. Because I've been watching several at a time, I wind up having a lot more line items per episode than make it into my writeups. When I did one-by-one writeups like in Buffy and Avatar, I'd get almost every reaction into the full writeup.

Here's an example one for episode 98.

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hagya's crew suffering - a different look on villanis. no way the bad guys actually trust him of course.

secret police/informant system :( but killua does go on too long... resulting in gon overheating again lmao. it DOES go on too long.

"My brother told me about it."

a citizen's house that had an execution and a coverup... it has a portrait of the cult of personality leader in it :/

no cell phones allowed

peijing is the capital. so another asian city led by the worst fucking representative of the race

gon trying to divide 5MM/10K :3

puppets should be easier than nen users. but breaking them free... means revealing yourself. moral dilemma! killua presents it... then asks GON 'what do you think?' killua IMMEDIATELY agrees! but he's already got the contingency

flashes to pitou's eyes so creepy!

gon's hero complex didn't exist in the hutner exam arc. he willingly watched some dudes get near-killed while trying to learn :/

"I don't want to fight them both at the same time. I definitely don't want to fight the silver-haired kid on my left."

wait the chameleon scout was on its way but WTF IS THIS JAFAR-GENIE THING

I USE MY STRONG TAIL SPRING TO MOVE AROUND THE TREES. IN THE DARKNESS MY MOVEMENT CANNOT BE FOLLOWED!!! lmfaooooooooooooooooooooooooo

"he can go 10 days without starving to death" really? you're not killing him???

I would read every single line you write without complaint.

Yes, your writeups are great however you want to do them lol. So glad you got to Gungi girl!
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too lazy to consolidate thoughts lately, but i've been watching a bit!
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D:
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Episodes 105-109

Recap: While Pitou is using her healing on the King, Knov infiltrates the palace and sets up entry/exit points. But when he sees the En aura of Pouf, he turns craven and takes himself out of the fight. Palm also infiltrates by becoming the concubine of the lone human remaining in the palace, the secretary who ran things. Morel takes out Leol/Hagya in an underground church. The squad reunites on the eve of Selection.

Meanwhile, the King continues to play Gungi against the girl - but she is getting better even as he is, meaning that he can't close the gap. The King asks her name - Komogi - and then suffers a self-identity crisis when she turns the question back on him, and he has no answer. The King prepares to kill Komogi, but when he finds her beset by a large bird, he's horrified to discover a protective instinct within himself.

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Let's cover the good guys' side real quick. Knov looks cool but I think I've rather outgrown the anime-running that he uses, which makes it really tough to swallow. However, the explanation of his ability - perfect in support - is really cool. And the tension felt real - the narrator gives us an incredibly unwelcome explanation of why Knov is having an unexpectedly easy time navigating the halls (because of the relative dearth of guards - the majority of Chimera Ants do not swear fealty to the King).

When we see that filthy, blue aura and the way Knov reacts to it, you can really understand why he's so terrified. After all, we've seen just how brutal Pitou is, how easily she pounced upon Kite from miles away and tore him apart. Later, all alone, already outside of the reach of immediate danger, Knov has a breakdown and can't control his twitching - it's the type of scene that can get a near-physical reaction from a viewer. Fantastic scene that actually makes up for some of the cheesiness during his infiltration.

I'm not thrilled with how Morel vs Leol goes down. Leol almost immediately goes with an ability we've never seen before, which doesn't even seem to suit him. It's fun watching Morel get pissed about his friend's ability being stolen, and it's cool that he turns the water into a trap using his lung capacity - but Leol's bluster always had a layer of humility under it, and I never really wanted his arrogant undoing to involve saying the words "Aren't my big waves rad??? You like how easily I can maneuver my board?"

Anyway, this is now twice that Morel has turned the rules of a closed-space encounter against the creator of the closed space. Whoops.

Much more interesting than the good guys' travails is what's happening inside the palace. The greatest empires of overwhelming strength technically caved to outsiders, but only because their strong internal governance crumbled, slowly but surely.

The King finding Komogi to be more than his equal is one of these great moments. He attempts to throw Komogi off by gambling with her - using fear and temptation to tilt her emotionally. Instead, he finds that Komogi already treats every game as if she is wagering her life on it... and that she has no obvious desires he can grant. Stunned, the King laughs and calls off the bet, admitting that it was a cheap trick that failed. "It appears I was the one lacking resolve." AND THEN HE RIPS HIS FUCKING ARM OFF AND IT TAKES TWO OF HIS ROYAL GUARD TO CONVINCE HIM TO LET IT BE REPAIRED, ALL WHILE CONTINUING TO PLAY.

The second of the King's important changes during this sequence comes days later, when Komogi is visibly far past her physical limits. No breaks, he has promised... but without even hearing Komogi complain, he decides to grant her yet another. What' stunning about this one is the lack of drama to it - he just realizes that his previous declaration won't satisfy him, so he backs off of it. In the same scene, he humbly asks her for advice in Gungi. Damn.
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And of course, there's the third most dramatic of these scenes - when, having declared his resolve and that, as Cersei Lannister might say, power is power, the King returns to kill this insignificant girl. And he sees her in battle with a bird and his rational mind abandons him. And the thing is, he's entirely self-aware about this. I'm strongly reminded of the scenes with Killua fighting the Illumi in his head, where his internal monologue and his words can't seem to find agreement.

"You're covered in blood!" What am... "... you're an important guest!" ... I saying?!

It's less obviously great than the King's internal struggles, but props to Pouf for basically killing himself stressing out about the King's obsession with Gungi-girl. He recognizes how dangerous the girl is, has a few freakouts about nearly killing the girl (and depriving the King of his revenge) and pisses himself in excitement for his self-doubt about the King having self-doubt or something. It's really goofy as fuck, but a fun melodramatic little sideshow that almost never directly impacts the main plot. Just good to see that there are other eyes in the royal camp that are concerned about what's going on. Pitou and Youpi seem way less involved in the King's personal affairs.

I cut myself off when I did because the battle is upon us, and it seemed like too good of an ending point not to recap there.

The final scene on the good guys' side is that we get to hear all seven members' thoughts in the moments before the battle starts. Morel is frustratingly only going to be at 35% or so, and he seems disturbingly resigned to whatever happens. Gon feels straightforward, and Killua wants to ensure that Gon gets his shot at Pitou. Ikalgo is all about being reborn with purpose, and Melereon is desperately hoping he can hold his breath long enough to make it count.

The two most interesting thoughts come from Knuckle and Shoot. The latter is worried about his own resolve, but he's also interested in Killua, who seems to Shoot to be fading away. What does this mean?! And as for Knuckle, we know that he sees kindred souls in others, but I love his take after seeing Melereon and Ikalgo: "Human or ant, everyone has a heart..."

Wonderfully, the episode doesn't end there. Instead, the King, resting, also gets an internal monologue, where his questions continue. On the eve of the Selection and the great battle where he will probably be killed, he's not thinking about world domination at all, but rather about what makes him who he is. "I am the King... but who am I? Why was I brought into this world?" I don't know if he'll live long enough to find out, but this has somehow become the most pressing question to me.

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* Killua/Ikalgo/Gon, has there ever been a truer trio of friendship.

* Today in attacks: WINDOW OPENER - SCREAM, MAELSTROM!! TORNAVE, GIANT WAVE - BIG WALL.

* Informational asymmetry at work - Team Humanity is able to deduce that the King injured himself - but unable to come close to fathoming why.

* Pouf is literally a giant Venomoth using Stun Spore on a hundred thousand people. Also, he nominates himself as the King's personal (distant) bodyguard with no small pleasure.

* It's noted that Pitou's En is unusual in that it's non-circular. Looks badass as fuck.

* Super-badass internal monologue from Ikalgo isn't really new but needs to be mentioned: "I will be reborn... a few days ago, I couldn't have dreamed of such a life... tomorrow will be my birthday!"
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I caught up with the manga about ten years right before they storm the palace...while it was on hiatus
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ya the King is really fascinating in this arc. No spoilers since you already noticed this lol. :3
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pjbasis posted...

I caught up with the manga about ten years right before they storm the palace...while it was on hiatus

Amazing. I think that being caught up in anything mid-arc usually sucks.

FakeAccount3000 posted...

ya the King is really fascinating in this arc. No spoilers since you already noticed this lol. :3

I should probably come clean here that I thought the King would be boring. I've already criticized that his preferred manner of execution so far (using his tail to hit someone in the head really hard) isn't fun. In particular, I was really put off by how bland his killing of that little boy was and I thought for sure we were in for the least interesting Chimera Ant of all. But the King specifically references that instance in his attempt to regain his ruthlessness, which in hindsight makes his character that much more interesting!
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The king is the best ant and Pouf is the worst. By far.
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pouf is a top 5 character dont @ me
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oh shit it took me some time but that's killua's grandpa isn't it
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These episodes are so good
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Episodes 110-115

Recap: The attack begins with Netero and Grandpa Zoldyck descending from the sky and performing a meteor strike on the palace, and they easily isolate the King, who is concerned about Komogi. G/K and friends enter via Knov's portal and unexpectedly run into Youpi right at the staircase. Youpi is handled by Shoot and Knuckle, who eventually sheds Melereon when he needs to help Shoot. Morel surrounds Pouf, who begins to transform. G/K make their way to Pitou, who is healing Komogi.

The Chimera Ant Welfrim realizes something is amiss when he discovers Knov's shoes and scent. He's also alerted to Killua's intrusion, Ikalgo's wearing Flutter's body, and a vague sense of Melereon's presence - but he withholds information to play his own politics.

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Holy fucking shit, these episodes are bad.

The little action that happens is really good, with some cool images that I'll get to. But the pacing is on par with Goku vs Frieza in the final 5 minutes of Namek... and there are at least five storylines to juggle. And unforgivably, the narrator for some reason has become the main character of the story.

Look at Episode 110. Look, Welfin is a really cool character. He's the most cunning of the Chimera Ants, he has his own quirks (due to his hyperactive senses), he has political machinations that give him distinct motives from other ants. But it's pretty late to be introducing this dude, whose little investigation, we find out, does not directly impact any of the main action for at least the next five or six episodes (and now that the invasion has begun, has little chance to affect it at all).

You'll recall that we last left our heroes literally with their eyes on the castle. Episode 110 ends with Morel counting down the seconds until it's time to go. Welfin, retread territory on the feelings of the Royal Guard (especially Pouf), fanservice shots of Leol/Hagya's underling, and Killua recapping his worries take up the entirety of this episode. So we've been blueballed for an entire episode not advancing the plot, at one of the most critical junctures.

On to Episode 111, then. It's go-time! Except that nope, the narrator suddenly takes over (and will continue to take over for the next five episodes) and brings us up to Netero and Killua's gramps. Now Killua's gramps's move is awesome and the image of diving is great. But for some reason, Pitou is denied inner monologue here (a recurring theme) as the narrator drones fucking endlessly about what she's thinking and how she's reacting. What the fuck happened to show, not tell? Every Gon-Hisoka interaction has been action-packed, allowing us to digest events after the fact, but focused on showing us events (and often, insight - see Gon's learning from the bird!) instead of this fucking garbage narration that grinds things to a halt.

The first half of the episode ends with Pitou facing Netero in mid-air... and the return from commercial break is five minutes of Netero flashback (alongside a weird confessional/documentary-style video of Grandpa Zoldyck hyping Netero). It's every bit as bad as the flashback to the ruler of NGL. Maybe this garbage is acceptable in a quiet moment, but it continues to grind the pacing to a halt. And the result of Pitou getting hit is again described by the narrator instead of by Pitou's inner monologue or even the visuals, which are REALLY FUCKING OBVIOUS. All that happens - Pitou uses Doctor Blythe, attached to her tail, to anchor herself in mid-air. That's it. But the narrator feels the need to step in and explain this to us.

The episode ends with the crew facing Youpi in a matchup no one expected, in one of the coolest end-of-episode images. This of course should have happened at the beginning of Episode 110, as (you'll recall) Episode 109 ended with everyone preparing to step into the portal.
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Over the course of four more episodes, here's how far we've advanced in each subplot:

* Pitou: returns to the castle
* Pouf/Morel: has a freakout, gets surrounded by smoke, starts to transform (yet to engage in combat)
* Knuckle/Shoot/Youpi: about 30 seconds have passed in their fight, based on APR
* King (/Zoldyck/Netero): assigns Pitou to heal Komogi, rides off on a Nen dragon (yet to engage in combat)
* Gon/Killua: kill two Soldier Ants effortlessly, find Pitou (yet to engage in combat)
* Ikalgo: goes down an elevator (yet to engage in combat)
* Melereon: sneaks off to try to help someone else (yet to engage in combat)
* Welfrim: snoops around, decides against actually doing anything (yet to engage in combat)

So we've got literally one fight in which blows have been exchanged, over the course of four episodes. All of it has been heavily narrated, including the narrator delving into detail about why Netero and Gramps choose not to attack the mourning King (why not inner monologue?), the thickness of Pitou's quads (which go back to normal after one leap), exactly how Welfrim's special power is supposed to work (though it fails), and the exact security machinations about an elevator (... yeah.) We've also got Killua extremely disturbed about why he helped out Ikalgo (you're friends, dumbass, remember?), Knuckle agonizing for five minutes of screen time during 30 seconds of "real" time before joining in, and a massive freakout from Pouf.

And what's happened so far... it isn't even all that good. Youpi growing arms is exciting (and his many eyes look disgustingly intimidating), but then his method of attack is... swinging them around like a tentacle monster. You shitting me, son?

There's good stuff here, but it's filtered through the agonizing pace. Once I've watched more episodes with actual material, I might cover the good stuff in a later writeup. For now, this has been one of the worst stretches of the show, right when it needs to be strongest - and with easily fixable issues, too. An incredible disappointment.
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The narrator thing is pretty divisive, but I love it! It's trying to make it feel more epic and it works for me.

Maybe being exposed to it in manga form where words on the page from a narrator really isn't that different from words from a character makes it better?
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Yeah, the narrator is great. Seems like a weird complaint.

That said, I did prefer the first half of Chimera Ant to the second.
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It's a pretty common one from what I've seen.
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Yeah, other people have complained about the narrator as well. I think this was around the time Togashi had his first really long hiatus and when he came back, his storytelling style was a bit different. He's used narration a lot more than previously.

I don't really mind it, personally.
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Does he use it again after this part?
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I hate the narrator stuff. It's just giant info dumps most of the time due to the authors illness preventing him from drawing too much, so he puts more text to tell "more story" in less chapters.

It really sucks. Like Seabass pointed out, the author has completely given up on "show don't tell" which is often a crucial piece of good storytelling.

I haven't seen this arc animated but I'd have assumed they cut that out a bit.. but it sounds like it's as bad as ever. They passed this issue on to the anime. That sucks.

Manga stuff.

It's gotten even worse in the current manga arc. It's like he's given up completely on telling a story well and has settled on telling it at all. I've dropped the series over it. Kurapika was talking with some lady on the boat about a princess and rival families and plots and after a bunch of those giant exposition text boxes I just realized I don't give a fuck anymore.
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I understand that show don't tell is a holy grail mantra of visual storytelling, but like, I read novels too lmao.
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The narrator is really, really bad, but it's compounded in badness because it's grinding the story to a halt. Six episodes have passed and no fight has advanced beyond avoiding blows. Four of the five active storylines don't even have a thrown punch yet. Narrator or not, that five-minute interlude of Netero's past was awful. Killua's gramps hype-job of Netero actually didn't involve a narrator, but it was also out of place and poorly paced.

Inner monologue is also telling isntead of showing, but hearing it in the character's voice is better because the character's opinions can be subject to biases. That said, they can get boring too - Knuckle's APR explanation was like eight times longer than it needed to be (it could have been summarized with "The number grows exponentially, and when it exceeds your remaining Nen, you're locked out of Nen!" plus a few other hype sentences), and nothing could have made that infodump about the elevator any good. If it's going to play a role later, that information should be dropped on us when it does play a role.

As a hard example - the narrator saying "Killua had no idea why he was doing this" is far, far less effective than the part when Gon wakes up and promises to heal Kite - there, his troubled inner thoughts about Gon belie the words he says to Gon. That combination of inner monologue and dialogue was killer-effective.
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I thought the palace invasion was terrible, but not because of the narration.
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what didn't you like about it?
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It may seem counter intuitive to look at this way, but it completely applies in novels too.

Think about one of the things Seabass said -

SeabassDebeste posted...

Pitou is denied inner monologue here (a recurring theme) as the narrator drones f***ing endlessly about what she's thinking and how she's reacting.

Either way, we'd be hearing the same things described by somebody - whether it's Pitou or the Narrator, why does it matter?

Well, it matters because if Pitou tells us, we are seeing her perspective and how she feels about it. The narrator is instead telling us how she feels about it. It's a fundamentally removed perspective.

In a novel, it may be hard to tell the difference at times since everything is conveyed by "telling us" about it, like describing scenery or what a person is wearing. But the difference between a bad author and a good author is generally that the bad author will tell you everything in the scene while a good author will introduce things in the scene through action or by the point of view characters perception.

Is it better to just tell us that a person is angry, or to show the person exhibiting angry characteristics?

It's just as relevant in novels.

edit: lol i referred to pitou as a her. TRAPPED
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eh it would probably get into spoilers and would kind of get into broader issues I have with the series so I am going to hold off for now.
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CoolCly posted...

Well, it matters because if Pitou tells us, we are seeing her perspective and how she feels about it. The narrator is instead telling us how she feels about it. It's a fundamentally removed perspective.

I agree, but that doesn't make it bad. I think it's intentional and works in this point of the story. We're following a shit ton of characters now, so he's taking a bird's eye view of the situation, moving a camera around the various conflicts. I think that's why it feels "epic" in a way personal viewpoints don't as easily.
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CoolCly posted...

Is it better to just tell us that a person is angry, or to show the person exhibiting angry characteristics?

So yeah my answer to this is just "whatever serves the story better." One way is not worse than the other like you make it seem. You're entitled to preferences of course.

SeabassDebeste posted...

but hearing it in the character's voice is better because the character's opinions can be subject to biases.

So there is something to be gained then by a narrator technique (no bias).
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I think the narration is what makes this part if the arc and it would be damaging to lose it. I can't even imagine the events that come later without it.
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Also knuckles lengthy explanation is kind of part of his strategy. If he makes his opponent take forever thinking about and listening to his explanation it's tons of free time for interest to accumulate.
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some good discussion on the narrator here. i still don't like it, but i can see why some people enjoy it!

Samurai7 posted...

Also knuckles lengthy explanation is kind of part of his strategy. If he makes his opponent take forever thinking about and listening to his explanation it's tons of free time for interest to accumulate.

Nah, he deliberately avoids telling Cheetu or Youpi how it works. He tells Gon as a favor to him because he's emotionally attached.
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also god damn gon "vs" pitou
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SeabassDebeste posted...

some good discussion on the narrator here. i still don't like it, but i can see why some people enjoy it!

Samurai7 posted...

Also knuckles lengthy explanation is kind of part of his strategy. If he makes his opponent take forever thinking about and listening to his explanation it's tons of free time for interest to accumulate.

Nah, he deliberately avoids telling Cheetu or Youpi how it works. He tells Gon as a favor to him because he's emotionally attached.

Eh I think that has to do with judging personality and power difference. Cheetu is impatient and won't bother trying to understand, Youpi it doesn't matter because of the power gap, the time explaining wouldn't be nearly long enough.... especially when staying invisible is way more effective at the same job.
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Episodes 116-120

Recap: Gon confronts Pitou and agrees to give her one hour to work on Komugi. Knuckle has a chance to escape Youpi, who is disinterested in their fight - but pride brings him back in. He's saved from death multiple times by Morel and Killua (who's aided by Melereon). Morel, baffled by the cocoon, strikes it down and dissipates Smoke Jail, freeing Pouf - who eventually makes his way to Pitou and Gon. Ikalgo does not find Palm and instead gets entangled with Brovada, whom he finds himself unwilling to kill.

My calls are fucking answered. Five action-packed, high-stakes episodes full of riveting character decisions and fist-pump moments.

The Animal Within

Gon features in only one of these episodes, but it's a firecracker and undoubtedly the most emotionally draining of them. The animalistic side of Gon is out in full force. With Kite deposed, the moral question of "How will Gon handle a chimerant with morals" vs "How much does Gon despise it when evil people take care of their own" has been clearly answered - in this case, the latter triumphs massively.

It's particularly telling that even Killua, an assassin not known for sympathizing with the enemy, is less eager to kill Pitou. And while he decides at first not to tell Gon that Pitou is healing Komogi, his every effort to let Gon do his violent thing is subverted when Pitou herself prostrates herself and even breaks her left arm. And he shrugs it off when Gon lashes out at him, claiming that he doesn't care, because dude is a bro.

(An example of the narrator redunancy here - narrator says "Meanwhile, Killua had noticed something strange" and Killua's internal monologue immediately says "Why isn't the enemy preparing for battle when we're right here?" I'll leave it at that. There are acceptable uses of a narrator, but that is not one.)

This fucking show, man - we've had two arcs end in non-violent anticlimax already in the Hunter Exam and the Phantom Troupe. You can see lots of parallels to the Phantom Troupe arc here - a highly charismatic leader whose people are utterly devoted to him has been separated. Notably absent from the screen as the action heats up are Netero and the King himself - with the King's humanity shown, I could actually conceive of a non-violent ending here (though I would certainly not bet on it).

More immediately, is it possible that Gon himself will be denied the opportunity to take bloody revenge? He's smashing the floor with an aura he's never put forth before; he's literally baring fangs with trembling jowls; his eyes are blank with rage. And now he has to sit and wait for a possibly non-violent end to his journey. Power reversals - Pitou has always held the power of being more dangerous in combat by orders of magnitude. Gon has always held the power of an unexpected strike. And at the climax, Gon is suddenly in command power-wise, while Pitou is calling the shots on when the battle is to occur. Fuckin' love it.

Some Things Are More Important Than the World

There's something that feels strange - delectable, but strange - about a plan working this well. Pouf was isolated in Morel's Smoky Jail, Pitou is literally incapable of moving or fighting, and Youpi has no idea where his King is, thinking that he is in Smoky Jail and mostly directionless. Knuckle has been escaping by the skin of his teeth but has been mostly unable to do anything. But the plan is working.

And that's why we feel dread when the narrator says that Knuckle has made mistakes. We're afraid that for some reason, Shoot has been compromised during the time when Youpi walked back, that perhaps strategically, something has been lost.
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It's also why it feels so fucking good when you realize that the "mistake" is putting practicality above pride. It's absolutely asinine that Knuckle's triumphant realization of his mistake, and method of rectifying it... is to be a giant idiot and go back to attack Youpi some more, because he spared Shoot's life. The internal monologue makes it all the better:

Shoot: It's my job to stay calm and stop Knuckle... 'Have you lost your mind? Don't go. Just keep your mouth shut, and buy more time.' That is my... "DO IT KNUCKLE!" Damn it... he... he looked at me like I was trash.. "Give him an extra punch for me!"

Knuckle: Sorry master... we're both fools now! There's something more important than the world right now!

Logistically, it makes zero sense at all. And the characters fucking know it. But the show is letting us say fuck it - we don't care if the mission is accomplished - we were promised violence and we're facing an opponent who's violence personified - let's fucking go. Killua and Morel's attacks on Youpi fit with this.

Killua in particular - looking like an absolute badass SSJ2 Gohan - attacks simply because he feels like it. It's pretty hilarious when he realizes he's out of Nen for his Godspeed and has to retreat, though now Youpi is tipped off that someone can use cloaking. Tactically a bad move, but it was a fun one! (And as for the strength of no narrator - the cliffhanger of electrified Killua walking toward Youpi - "Sorry, what's about to happen is just me blowing off steam..." - is all the stronger because that's all that's said.)

Outlasting the Patience Master

Three minutes is all it takes for Pouf to break Morel's resolve and have him strike the cocoon/dissolve the Smoky Jail. God damn. Chibi Pouf afterward is hilariously cute. I think it's kind of ridiculous that he doesn't lay the smackdown on Morel - is a Royal Guard really this weak? - but I respect that he lays the motherfucking boom on Morel by stealing his pipe. Great move.

Best line after Pouf plansplains himself to Morel: "You underestimated me?" / "On the contrary - I overestimated you!" (explodes)

Power of Friendship

Ikalgo's little journey to rescue Palm ends very quickly when he finds her missing (as we've known to expect). He then resolves to trap/defeat Brovada - clearly his physical superior - letting the Flutter corpse be ripped apart, taking over the Control Room, re-enabling the Sleeping Gas, and actually MacGuyvering his way into blockading the elevator. But in the end, despite what he thinks he knows has to be done, he does not pull the trigger. The battle with the smallest hero has the smallest stakes (Brovada is hardly going to turn the tide of this war), but I think it's very worthy. Ikalgo is laying it all out to do wahtever he can, and he's found the right opponent for it

The entire elevator explanation turns out to be worthless garbage. Astounding.

What's Next

Pouf showing up at the surgery site with Gon and Pitou is the hypest of cliffhangers.

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* "'Likely'? 'Probably'? You want me to wait because of likely and probably?!"

* The only sign of Welfrim we see these episodes: he's tracking Bizeff, who's being escorted by Leol's girly subordinate. She's got her own ambitions - "I'll leave to become a Queen!" Kinda adorable from such a small fry at such a dire hour, honestly, and a reminder that a climactic battle for heroes doesn't always have the same stakes for minor characters.

* Youpi's tentacles attack is super-boring, but I do like hearing Pouf's opinion on the APR surrounding him - "Also, a weird fatso with a spike on his head!"
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This is it
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Dis some good shit
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