Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: (Arcane)Dustwood

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is a topic where we discuss about Hearthstone.

If you are new and play consider adding yourself to the b8wiki list of players.
http://board8.wikia.com/wiki/Hearthstone

Not everyone on the list still plays normally, but you can get a good idea by poking around the topic who still logs in and plays frequently.

Witchwood is finally out and the meta is starting to settle down a bit. There is still a ton of experimentation going on though, especially at legend... but the majority of games will be against a power deck most likely at all ranks (like Paladin, or warlock). Remember though, what's good today might not be good in a month.

Big topic

Shudderwock has drawn the ire of many players for various reasons and Blizzard has taken note saying that they are looking into changing the card. I think changing the way the animations work is the prime issue and not just for ladder, but specifically if it sees play in tournaments.
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Reposting from the end of last topic but I don't care, because I haven't had sufficient time to relish in it yet.

I won a game as hunter by going Jeweled Macaw into Chameleos into one of Rin's seals and then getting out Azari. The hunter dream I never knew I had until it happened.

https://hsreplay.net/replay/XnG7onDfc9qDFPq2UpEABd

I had an opposing Priest in arena kill my 6/6 demon from Rin just now with that new spell that gives you a copy of the card, and based on the fact that he stopped playing for a good fifteen seconds I imagine he thought he could play it and get Big Daddy when he did so.
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Yeah, I've had a few times when I'm playing new cards or just cards I'm not familiar with and I can't decide what to do because I don't know how the interaction works. That one situation you described is probably pretty clear cut but I've had that happen.

Fatigue games against Warlock are so fun to win.

I really want to stick with Spiteful Druid because it's enjoyable to play, but it's becoming harder to climb ranks now that everyone is playing the same decks on ladder.

I might have to play Warlock because I've spent some time with Odd Paladin and, while it wins, I don't find it particularly fun to play.
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I've never had leroy jenkins and I keep losing games because I forget he exists.

So I'm having a lot of fun playing even Shaman in wild (thing from below and totem golem are even), and also really enjoying watching a friend play even Handlock in Standard. Weirdly neither of these seem to be on anyone's radar, both decks seem quite good, though.

Really enjoying this expansion so far. The even/odd mechanic opens up a lot of deck possibilities.
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Point of discussion: Would Genn Greymane be OP if it said "hero power" instead of "starting hero power"?

If yes, support your answer.

Both of the odd/even cards would be OP if you could use them with hero cards.
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I don't think it would be too OP, but I'm glad it doesn't. Otherwise it kind of dicks over Baku.
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I mean that only really changes Rexxar right

And Even Paladin/Shaman are both pretty good, and Warlock is ok

They just arent quite as good as Baku Paladin or Rogue
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turbopuns2 posted...

Point of discussion: Would Genn Greymane be OP if it said "hero power" instead of "starting hero power"?

If yes, support your answer.

I mean, no, because by the time you have a death knight you probably have 10 mana, but with even cards and a 1 mana hero power you can only spend 9 mana on turns when you hero power anyway so....

Genn is all about getting a crazy consistent earlygame start; the 1 mana hero power literally does basically nothing on turn 10.
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I can't believe he didn't go on a forum and make a post about how the game has no skill after that one.
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davidponte posted...

Both of the odd/even cards would be OP if you could use them with hero cards.

Specifics? I mean the cheapest DK is 5 mana right? Elaborate on what decks specifically would be OP. And genn is specifically even only.

Camden posted...

I don't think it would be too OP, but I'm glad it doesn't. Otherwise it kind of dicks over Baku.

How does it dick over Baku?

LiquidOshawott posted...

I mean that only really changes Rexxar right

And Even Paladin/Shaman are both pretty good, and Warlock is ok

They just arent quite as good as Baku Paladin or Rogue

Is your answer yes or no, I'm not sure.

turbopuns2 posted...

davidponte posted...

Both of the odd/even cards would be OP if you could use them with hero cards.

Specifics? I mean the cheapest DK is 5 mana right? Elaborate on what decks specifically would be OP. And genn is specifically even only.

I haven't really looked, I just assumed an upgraded/cheaper hero power is better than a standard hero power.

Quest Warrior could be decent with 12 or 16 damage per turn, depending on how much the upgrade is.

EDIT: I just noticed you were only talking about Genn, where I was mentioning both of them.
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tag
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turbopuns2 posted...

Camden posted...

I don't think it would be too OP, but I'm glad it doesn't. Otherwise it kind of dicks over Baku.

How does it dick over Baku?

Baku can't upgrade his hero power without losing all of the benefit he gets from his start of game effect. You could turn into Guldan or Rexxar with Genn and retain the full benefit of the reduced cost of the hero power in this situation, whereas Baku turns into Jaina or Malfurion and loses everything you built an odd-only deck for in the first place. Baku already has the substantially worse body at 9/7/8, it would kind of suck to also give him a worse effect.
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@Camden, ok but presently which legendary would you say is better...?

And either way, the question is specifically, would Genn be OP. Not would it make any other cards worse by comparison.

Basically I just want a good, justifiable explanation for why I can't have a 1-mana Dinomancy if you're already restricting me to only even-cost cards.

I feel like 1 mana Dinomancy still wouldn't see play.
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Im saying it wouldnt matter
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davidponte posted...

I feel like 1 mana Dinomancy still wouldn't see play.

That's not the question.

You need to justify why it isn't possible. Not why it isn't good.

I wasn't answering your question. Just making an observation!
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I think the other notable 1-cost (even) Death Knight hero power would be Shadowreaper Anduin, where you would be able to get 4 hero powers off by using 3 cards/6 mana, in some combination. With double Radiant Elemental and a Shadow Visions loop, you could even get 6 hero powers in a turn, compared to 3 normally.
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NewerShadow posted...

I think the other notable 1-cost (even) Death Knight hero power would be Shadowreaper Anduin, where you would be able to get 4 hero powers off by using 3 cards/6 mana, in some combination. With double Radiant Elemental and a Shadow Visions loop, you could even get 6 hero powers in a turn, compared to 3 normally.

Can you make an OP deck using only even cost cards?

Not a good deck, but a "this can't be allowed" deck.

Honestly curious. I have no idea what priest cards there are for that.

LiquidOshawott posted...

Im saying it wouldnt matter

So in other words you're saying no, it wouldn't be OP.

davidponte posted...

I wasn't answering your question. Just making an observation!

Ok. Well, that's fine, just totally irrelevant lol. The entire point was...someone had to decide at some point to make the card say "starting hero power" and not just "hero power" and I'm trying to come up with a justification.

Genn's discount on the hero power matters literally only on turns 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9. On any other turn, it's functionally equivalent to costing 2 because you'll never spend your last mana. Obviously that goes out the window if you can either (a) generate odd-costing cards or (b) find a way to use your hero power repeatedly, but neither of those apply to the basic hero powers, and therefore Genn is a dead card after you hit that stage. Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how even paladin is any better than just a general all-purpose paladin. All even paladin does is force you to use a smaller pool of cards.

By contrast, Baku continues to generate value, and is potentially superior to the DK power in some cases. (2 attack and 2 armor probably better than 3 of one, for instance.) The only time you want to replace a Baku power with another power is odd quest warrior. I'm okay with Rag shots only doing 8 damage.
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turbopuns2 posted...

ok but presently which legendary would you say is better...?

Baku, solely because of Paladin. Nothing else involving either of them really looks that good right now. Hell, dudes are so good Even Paladin might be second best.

turbopuns2 posted...

And either way, the question is specifically, would Genn be OP. Not would it make any other cards worse by comparison.

Well, in the same post where I said I'm glad it doesn't because of Baku, I also said it wouldn't be too OP.
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Alright so the overwhelming answer I'm getting from everyone is "no, puns, there is no good reason why Genn is limited to starting hero power". Cool, I feel better now.

In other news - Hemet, Jungle Hunter might make control hunter with Emeriss plausible??

Camden posted...

turbopuns2 posted...

ok but presently which legendary would you say is better...?

Baku, solely because of Paladin. Nothing else involving either of them really looks that good right now. Hell, dudes are so good Even Paladin might be second best.

There's a lot more Odd Paladin on ladder, cause it's super low dust cost. But Even Paladin has the higher winrate at the moment.

I have both decks built and definitely think even Paladin is better. Odd paladin has some blowout matches (LOL face hunter, get rekt) but dies if the enemy has AoE.

Even Paladin just plain wins against odd Paladin (it can run 2x Consecrate, and that's all it needs to win that matchup). And just gets to run the most OP cards in the game (Call to Arms and Sunkeeper Tarim). Odd Paladin ends up running stuff like Stormwind Champion and Raid Leader, which...are good when you are already ahead, but clear the board once, while having minions/weapons that can kill the re-flood and the deck kind-of just loses.
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turbopuns2 posted...

davidponte posted...

I wasn't answering your question. Just making an observation!

Ok. Well, that's fine, just totally irrelevant lol. The entire point was...someone had to decide at some point to make the card say "starting hero power" and not just "hero power" and I'm trying to come up with a justification.

Probably to make sure they don't break anything in future Standard sets after how strong they saw Raza/Anduin was. Costing 1 like Raza nerf is safe but only affecting starting hero power is even safer.

Example, they made a Hero card this set that had a passive hero power. They could be experimenting with hero power costs which means we could see a hero power that costs more than 2. And if the card is even then Genn could break it.
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Sorry if I was needlessly edgey last night. Helped someone polish off some leftover beers.

Anyway, I did have some fun in control matchups using Hemet, Jungle Hunter.

So you make it a Valanar Deck (Prince 4) and stack most of it in the 3 mana or less group. Use tracking to thin the deck and stitched tracker to try to get Hemet sooner (or just powerful minions). Then your 5+ are infinite or very high value cards like DK Rexxar, Lich King, and Ysera maybe? I played a few 20/20 stealth Hydras which was pretty silly. And 24/24 Deathwing lol.

Now that I'm thinking more, if you could work it without Valanar, Dire Frenzy could REALLY shine in that kind of deck.

turbopuns2 posted...

Now that I'm thinking more, if you could work it without Valanar, Dire Frenzy could REALLY shine in that kind of deck.

Just do what the kids on Reddit are doing, and run Quest Hunter, and then use Dire Frenzy on Queen Carnassa. (It's pretty OK to Hemmet away the first set of raptors as long as you dire frenzy Carnassa).
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Went 6-3 with my freebie rollover arena. Slightly disappointed as should have been better.

2nd loss was to a Priest who didn't play any thing for like 6 turns followed by a few singular clears. He had me on edge so i played super conservative, would have beat him if I had actually played normal and pushed instead of playing safe wondering what the fuck he was doing. Amber > Malygos > Spirit Lash swung it around for him from 4HP when I had 4 on board. An example of where RNG screwed me but only because I misplayed earlier allowing him that chance.

3rd loss was to a mage who beat me with back to back Pyroblasts to the face when I had 20 attack on the board and he had an empty board. Don't think there was anything I could have done though. Couldn't have pushed for lethal any sooner and couldn't have got myself above 20 health

Got a Prince Liam from the pack at least

Using a new build of Spiteful Druid and it's been pretty good.

And by pretty good, I mean continuing to lose to Warlock and Paladin while beating everything else.
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I'd rather play against nothing but Paladin/Warlock than Shudderwock.
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Tess Rogue, I just Shudderwockd a Shudderwock.

Man, that was a thing.
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The animation to me is less annoying than the fact that I have and will continue to have pretty much a 0% win rate against the deck. Not exaggerating, I don't think I've beat the deck yet and I don't expect to. Control Warlock and Aggro Paladin are both really strong but I don't go into either matchup knowing I've already lost. Cube Warlock is a really tough match for me that I lose a lot more than I win. Shudderwock is Quest Rogue for me all over again, which I think I beat an entire one time before it was nerfed.
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The set up for Shudderwok is too easy which is the problem. It's not so much Shudderwok itself that is the problem, it's that it is so easily replicated and chains. Like they could increase the mana or stop it mimicking it's own battlecry or like cap the number of battlecries it can chain or something