Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 163: Generous 2A Fault

(+) Yeah! (+)

Misty the puppy from Parkland, FL wants gun control

https://twitter.com/delaneytarr/status/967178624116973570

How could you say no to Misty??
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So in oncoming apocalypse news

http://amp.fox5atlanta.com/news/police-search-for-missing-cdc-employee

Someone from the Center for Disease Control left work sick 10 days ago and hasnt been seen by anyone since

Ive seen enough movies to know where this is going
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Ah shit
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Tag
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For the record poke, my problem is with those voters taking whatever the NRA tells them at face value even when what they are saying is dishonest at best.
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Not sure if this has already been discussed here, but

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/967152956356243456

Looks like three police Deputies (in addition to the school's resource officer) were on site at the school but did not enter the building during the shoot.

No idea whether they were instructed to wait or not.

But yeah... no matter what level of training you've received, it can't be easy to bypass your survival instinct and willingly step into an unknown danger. Even if these deputies chose cowardice, I can't criticize them too much.
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you generally are trained to not take on a shooter or anyone with a deadly weapon on your own.
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Talk about arming people all you want, but actually going into a situation and shooting the shooter is a lot harder than it sounds. Dealing with an active shooter and not doing more harm than good isn't easy.

There is nothing but chaos going on around you and possibly only 1 suspect surrounded by hundreds of innocents.
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I saw an interview on CNN with a former police chief or something, and he said police are trained to engage and not just wait outside.
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100% agree

It's completely different than shooting at a fleeing suspect from across the street.

You have no idea where the shooter(s) is/are, what they look like, or what weaponry they have. They could be just as likely to get the jump on you as you are on them. This is me as an ignorant nerdy accountant talking, but given that level of danger and uncertainty, I'd PROBABLY rather be a Marine in a firefight than that resource officer forced to step inside the building and engage an active shooter(s) before any backup arrives.
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I don't mind the police not entering the building. It is, however, frustrating that yet another example of 'good guy with a gun' not panning out as advertised is going to be entirely ignored by NRA types. That probably came out more bitter than it was meant to be, but yeah.
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when I try to imagine the reality where everyone is armed everywhere I keep thinking of the Las Vegas shooting.

People would see other people getting shot, then pull out their own gun to try to defend themselves, then see someone else who pulled out their gun to defend them self then not know if that other person with the gun is a good guy with a gun or the one doing the shooting and then maybe they shoot that guy, and someone sees that and now that person looks like the original shooter and it just all goes bad

or maybe not, but it's just hard for me to picture throwing a bunch of extra guns into a chaotic situation with unprepared people working out well
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

when I try to imagine the reality where everyone is armed everywhere I keep thinking of the Las Vegas shooting.

People would see other people getting shot, then pull out their own gun to try to defend themselves, then see someone else who pulled out their gun to defend them self then not know if that other person with the gun is a good guy with a gun or the one doing the shooting and then maybe they shoot that guy, and someone sees that and now that person looks like the original shooter and it just all goes bad

or maybe not, but it's just hard for me to picture throwing a bunch of extra guns into a chaotic situation with unprepared people working out well

which side watches too many violent movies again?
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All sides!
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In a society where every law abiding citizen was armed, I'm not sure a terrorist would need to do more than fire one or two rounds at a large gathering of people. Everyone else would do the work for him.
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Isn't there already a reality of people armed everywhere though? It's called....rural America? Several districts in Texas already have armed teachers, so some of these proposals aren't hypothetical and have never been tested.
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Pokewars posted...

Isn't there already a reality of people armed everywhere though? It's called....rural America? Several districts in Texas already have armed teachers, so some of these proposals aren't hypothetical and have never been tested.

You're a psychopath you know that right?
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KamikazePotato posted...

I don't mind the police not entering the building. It is, however, frustrating that yet another example of 'good guy with a gun' not panning out as advertised is going to be entirely ignored by NRA types. That probably came out more bitter than it was meant to be, but yeah.

They're actually not ignoring it at all.

They're just focusing on the "guy" part of it and going "It was the wrong guy. The RIGHT guy with a gun would've stopped it!"
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Obviously the right guy would be the gym teacher Mr. Erickson. He may be a 45 year old man with a bum knee and a weakness to them jelly filled glazed doughnuts but that man knows how to end a firefight.
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That's the thing. The right and the NRA are going "It's this guy's fault, he should have went in, blah blah blah" about a guy that was trained to do it

How many teachers are really going to want all of that additional responsibility
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Its not even just the right going after the poor guy. Many left wing sites are going after the guy too.

Left wing news is happy to start a gun control debate for ratings but if they can run the narrative elsewhere they are happy to do so.
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Eddv posted...

Pokewars posted...

Isn't there already a reality of people armed everywhere though? It's called....rural America? Several districts in Texas already have armed teachers, so some of these proposals aren't hypothetical and have never been tested.

You're a psychopath you know that right?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/health/texas-guns-school-district-trnd/index.html

Reporting what I read is psychopathy now. Glad your psych degree could clarify that.
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StealThisSheen posted...

That's the thing. The right and the NRA are going "It's this guy's fault, he should have went in, blah blah blah" about a guy that was trained to do it

How many teachers are really going to want all of that additional responsibility

There is a signficant difference between a trained officer whose job it is to actually seek out and stop the shooter and a teacher who might be holed up in a classroom full of kids and at least being able to defend themselves if a shooter were to enter that room. To even have the chance at a defence vs. being completely helpless. What would someone want in that situation?
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Pokewars posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

That's the thing. The right and the NRA are going "It's this guy's fault, he should have went in, blah blah blah" about a guy that was trained to do it

How many teachers are really going to want all of that additional responsibility

There is a signficant difference between a trained officer whose job it is to actually seek out and stop the shooter and a teacher who might be holed up in a classroom full of kids and at least being able to defend themselves if a shooter were to enter that room. To even have the chance at a defence vs. being completely helpless. What would someone want in that situation?

There is also a significant difference between a trained officer engaging a gunman and a teacher that took a few hours at a range. Arming teachers is putting the weight of potentially having to make the same decision the trained officer does on their shoulders. They're going to be expected to step up in situations where they shouldn't.
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I don't know of anyone of serious note suggesting teachers take a mere few hours at a range and think that's sufficient. And I don't know what the procedures and protocols of teachers who are already armed in places like the link I gave. I would HOPE that it's not where teachers who are armed are expected to replace law enforcement. Merely for their sake and for the children they supervise to have some kind of defence in case of this horrible scenario.
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The catch is that theyre not pushing to arm teachers just for defense, like a holed up in the room scenario. If they were pushing for purely defense, theyd be arguing for all teachers to be armed. It doesnt help if Mr. History Teacher is holed up in his classroom with a gun, but Mr. Math Teacher down the hall doesnt have one.

What Trump and the NRA are pushing for is for some teachers to be trained to engage gunmen. Thats why Trump actually mentioned gym teachers, since theyre stereotypically rough and tough men. In their fantasy land, they want schools to have a squad of teachers that turn into Rambo if the school is under attack.

Thats quite a bit different than what youre describing.
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Next level school shooter strats are going to involve the perpetrator throwing sticky plastic toy guns at other students so it sticks to them, causing the teacher to shoot those students.
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I feel like even debating it is idiotic because it's so obviously fucked up to anyone with a functioning brain.
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https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/02/nra-gives-ajit-pai-courage-award-and-gun-for-saving-the-internet/

what
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https://twitter.com/NRA/status/967127534633668609

Instead of placing the blame on an organization that defends everyone's #2A rights, maybe people should take a hard look at the number of failures by the FBI and local law enforcement agencies, or does that not fit your agenda? #DefendtheSecond #NRA https://t.co/FyDRrWxvJW

The blue lives matter crowd sure is quick to throw cops under the bus!
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Peace___Frog posted...

https://twitter.com/NRA/status/967127534633668609

Instead of placing the blame on an organization that defends everyone's #2A rights, maybe people should take a hard look at the number of failures by the FBI and local law enforcement agencies, or does that not fit your agenda? #DefendtheSecond #NRA https://t.co/FyDRrWxvJW

The blue lives matter crowd sure is quick to throw cops under the bus!

#GunLivesMatter
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Someone should tell them that the last time someone took their advice, he lost his job and had the president calling for a boycott of the NFL over it.
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Imagine the possible stories if teachers suddenly carry weapons.

"WHY DIDN'T THE TEACHER STOP THE SHOOTER?" asks NRA Vice President Wayne La Pierre. "THEY WERE COWARDS!"

We're already hearing this one regarding the school resource officer. Don't think we won't be hearing the same story when a teacher with a gun fails to stop it. Followed of course by everyone calling for the firing of all the armed teachers who didn't stop it.

"Teacher goes nuts, kills students, then self."

Guess it's time to ban something finally! Schools, that is.

"Student grabs gun from teacher, kills 3."

At least it wasn't 17 this time!

"Teacher kills fellow teacher mistaking them for the shooter."

Hey! Mistakes happen.

"SWAT team kills teacher, mistaking them for the shooter."

Swat team feared for their lives.
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2/24/2018
TWITTER - NBC News

WATCH: At the Ronald Reagan Dinner at CPAC, ACU Communications Director Ian Walters said the RNC hired Michael Steele as chairman in 2009 "because hes a black guy." https://t.co/g6YcyLET5w

*VIDEO OF CLIP*

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/967383625900556289
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HaRRicH posted...

2/24/2018
TWITTER - NBC News

WATCH: At the Ronald Reagan Dinner at CPAC, ACU Communications Director Ian Walters said the RNC hired Michael Steele as chairman in 2009 "because hes a black guy." https://t.co/g6YcyLET5w

*VIDEO OF CLIP*

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/967383625900556289

Man I've been hearing about this quote a few times but I never actually watched the full clip until now

I can't believe everybody's been leaving out the prefaced "we did a terrible thing" part of the comment
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StealThisSheen posted...

That's the thing. The right and the NRA are going "It's this guy's fault, he should have went in, blah blah blah" about a guy that was trained to do it

How many teachers are really going to want all of that additional responsibility

Depending on how tinfoil hat you want to go, there's a school of thought that says the right's whole "let's arm teachers" is not a serious attempt to actually get teachers to buy guns but an attempt to get gun owners to become teachers, thereby increasing the number of right-wingers responsible for teaching impressionable children.
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Not_an_Owl posted...

Depending on how tinfoil hat you want to go, there's a school of thought that says the right's whole "let's arm teachers" is not a serious attempt to actually get teachers to buy guns but an attempt to get gun owners to become teachers, thereby increasing the number of right-wingers responsible for teaching impressionable children.

I think it's more likely that they want to blame Teachers for not stopping school shootings. Just look at how they're already blaming the resource officer.

If teachers are armed at a school, and one of them doesn't take down the shooter, they'll be called cowards and people will call for their jobs for not 'protecting the kids'.

That way they get to have their cake (no gun control) and eat it to (have an easy target to blame for it not working out, and one that's not law enforcement at that)
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Not_an_Owl posted...

Depending on how tinfoil hat you want to go, there's a school of thought that says the right's whole "let's arm teachers" is not a serious attempt to actually get teachers to buy guns but an attempt to get gun owners to become teachers, thereby increasing the number of right-wingers responsible for teaching impressionable children.

Thats a really stupid, convoluted plan

So maybe its true
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I believe at least that they're trying to incentivize owning a gun, like with teacher bonuses. We might see that reach other industries. I dunno how much further I'm ready to go after that right now though.
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They would still need to go through college and get teaching certification, and theres nothing STOPPING them from doing that now
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Ashethan posted...

Imagine the possible stories if teachers suddenly carry weapons.

"WHY DIDN'T THE TEACHER STOP THE SHOOTER?" asks NRA Vice President Wayne La Pierre. "THEY WERE COWARDS!"

We're already hearing this one regarding the school resource officer. Don't think we won't be hearing the same story when a teacher with a gun fails to stop it. Followed of course by everyone calling for the firing of all the armed teachers who didn't stop it.

"Teacher goes nuts, kills students, then self."

Guess it's time to ban something finally! Schools, that is.

"Student grabs gun from teacher, kills 3."

At least it wasn't 17 this time!

"Teacher kills fellow teacher mistaking them for the shooter."

Hey! Mistakes happen.

"SWAT team kills teacher, mistaking them for the shooter."

Swat team feared for their lives.

Don't forget the inevitable "He reached for his waistband" after a teacher kills an unarmed student and then claims he was afraid for his life.
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Conservatives love free speech!

https://twitter.com/timalberta/status/967490578320707586

Mona Charen, who stunned #CPAC by rebuking conservatives for excusing the behavior of Donald Trump and Roy Moore, was just escorted outside by 3 security guards after her speech. More in @POLITICOMag story later.

Free speech is great!
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https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/967489558307844097
https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/967491509330300928

YikesCPAC panelist Mona Charen says there are people "sitting in the White House who brag about their extramarital affairs, who brag about mistreating women, and because he happens to have an 'R' by his name, we look the other way."

The crowd did not like that.

Mona Charen at CPAC torches Marion Le Pen: "The only reason she was here is she's named Le Pen. And the Le Pen name is a disgrace. Her grandfather is a racist and nazi. She claims she stands for him."

CROWD: BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

CHAREN: "The fact that CPAC invited her is a disgrace."

Conservatives have changed
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Peace___Frog posted...

https://twitter.com/NRA/status/967127534633668609

Instead of placing the blame on an organization that defends everyone's #2A rights, maybe people should take a hard look at the number of failures by the FBI and local law enforcement agencies, or does that not fit your agenda? #DefendtheSecond #NRA https://t.co/FyDRrWxvJW

The blue lives matter crowd sure is quick to throw cops under the bus!

It is bizarre to me that in the past year the right has starting pushing issues that boil down to:

1) cops are corrupt and biased and cannot be trusted to do the right thing
2) a cops job is so easy a teacher, who is already doing an entire other job on top of it, can handle the hardest part of their job

Like...this is the pro-cop party?
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lordloki12 posted...

Ashethan posted...

Imagine the possible stories if teachers suddenly carry weapons.

"WHY DIDN'T THE TEACHER STOP THE SHOOTER?" asks NRA Vice President Wayne La Pierre. "THEY WERE COWARDS!"

We're already hearing this one regarding the school resource officer. Don't think we won't be hearing the same story when a teacher with a gun fails to stop it. Followed of course by everyone calling for the firing of all the armed teachers who didn't stop it.

"Teacher goes nuts, kills students, then self."

Guess it's time to ban something finally! Schools, that is.

"Student grabs gun from teacher, kills 3."

At least it wasn't 17 this time!

"Teacher kills fellow teacher mistaking them for the shooter."

Hey! Mistakes happen.

"SWAT team kills teacher, mistaking them for the shooter."

Swat team feared for their lives.

Don't forget the inevitable "He reached for his waistband" after a teacher kills an unarmed student and then claims he was afraid for his life.

Cops, who are trained for years and are prepared to actual handle dangerous situations, make these mistakes all the time.

Teachers would absolutely do every single one of these things and more. The level of disrespect this idea shows actual police officers is absurd.
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/967489558307844097
https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/967491509330300928

YikesCPAC panelist Mona Charen says there are people "sitting in the White House who brag about their extramarital affairs, who brag about mistreating women, and because he happens to have an 'R' by his name, we look the other way."

The crowd did not like that.

Mona Charen at CPAC torches Marion Le Pen: "The only reason she was here is she's named Le Pen. And the Le Pen name is a disgrace. Her grandfather is a racist and nazi. She claims she stands for him."

CROWD: BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

CHAREN: "The fact that CPAC invited her is a disgrace."

Conservatives have changed

Mona Charen isnt some moderate republican btw. Shes written screeds against liberals.

Actual conservatives are being labeled as RINOs and shoved out of the party to make room for...whatever this. The fact that r/the_donald thinks Jeff Flake of all people is a traitor RINO shows that word has lost all meaning.
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Democratic rebuttal memo released.

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/967507884933337089
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Suprak the Stud posted...

It is bizarre to me that in the past year the right has starting pushing issues that boil down to:

1) cops are corrupt and biased and cannot be trusted to do the right thing
2) a cops job is so easy a teacher, who is already doing an entire other job on top of it, can handle the hardest part of their job

Like...this is the pro-cop party?

They've also begun to parrot refrains of liberals! But while we're concerned about the plight of minorities in a system heavily stacked in favor of the prison industrial complex...

https://twitter.com/IngrahamAngle/status/967069002353831936

Prosecutors with unlimited resources can force almost anyone to crack under pressure. https://t.co/VTyrAdKWso

BREAKING: AP source: Former Trump campaign official Rick Gates expected to plead guilty in Russia probe.

... they're concerned about the impact prosecutors can have on powerful rich white men.
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https://twitter.com/mrhappydiehappy/status/967139095695777792

This tweet is part of a very serious, somber thread about how the alt-right machine preys on vulnerable young men that I recommend reading to familiarize yourself with the signs

But in and of itself, this tweet is hilarious
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Peace___Frog posted...

... they're concerned about the impact prosecutors can have on powerful rich white men.

OMG this is amazingly self-owning and she doesnt even realize it
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