Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 428: 25 Years of RAW, Unmitigated Malfeasance

(+) Yeah! (+)

NBIceman posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

NBIceman posted...

Rosemary's growth as a wrestler has been incredible to me. I remember seeing her on an indy show almost a decade ago wrestling as PJ Tyler. Bad worker, bad "rocker girl" gimmick, probably didn't weight 100lbs soaking wet. Then she put on a bunch of mass, became Courtney Rush, and started getting booked in promotions that people had actually heard of even though she still wasn't very good and had an even blander gimmick.

Now she's this crazy demon girl or whatever and all the Impact fans I talk to say she's the best thing in the company. I've managed to be right about the potential a lot of wrestlers have had before they ever made it big, but I would've never thought she was capable of what she's accomplished.

I think the Hardys really helped her develop her personality and gimmick well, and she's become a pretty damn talented wrestler.

Got any good match recs?

Her feud with Jade in TNA had a few good ones. Her matches with Allie on the indies were great (way better than we get in TNA), and her Last Man Standing match with Sienna was pretty awesome.

Of course, Delete or Decay was just good fun.

I'll say that what I primarily enjoy about her is that while she's a good worker, she nails her character in all of the little intricacies of the match. She makes her character's actions believable, which is sort of a lost art now.
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TheRock1525 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Can I just think that neither of them are anything special?

No because according to MWC either you love Sasha or hate womens wrestling

But seriously yes neither are that great

And yet I got all this shit for saying Bliss wasn't any good before.

To be fair, though correct me if I'm wrong, you got shit mostly for saying Bliss doesn't have any personality/character in the ring.

I don't believe anybody would have given you shit for saying she's not a great wrestler
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StealThisSheen posted...

you got shit mostly for saying Bliss doesn't have any personality/character in the ring.

Can confirm every time I've played Bliss defense force in here it's because I've felt people have underrated this aspect of her.

She's definitely not very good in the ring but she's good at playing the character which makes her matches more entertaining to watch as long as she's paired with someone who can passably beat her up for most of the match.
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Since you guys are on a womens kick

HOT PREDIX: Carmella cashes in during MMC
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I literally argued she wasn't good in the ring.

You two are now saying I was arguing she didn't have a good "character" in a ring.

I was arguing none of her matches were any good.

What the fuck is this revisionist history?
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I said correct me if I'm wrong, though I based it on specifically remembering that you and Lopen were arguing over whether her moveset and in-ring attitude fit her character, with Lopen insisting they did and you insisting they didn't and thus there was nothing redeeming about her matches.

So while you may have overall been arguing that her matches weren't any good, people weren't arguing she was a good wrestler.
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If we are counting the handful of matches kairi and Nikki cross have had in north america, then @NBIceman really needs to count Hamada.

There have been a handful of more talented wrestlers, but she's got more great matches in the NA territory.
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411 just wrapped up their year end awards. Decided to wait until the end to post all 13 winners

Wrestler of the Year: Kazuchika Okada
2) AJ Styles
3) Kenny Omega
4) Tetsuya Naito
5) Pete Dunne

Most Underrated: Rusev
2) Sami Zayn
3) Luke Harper and Finn Balor (tie)
4) Gran Metallik and Becky Lynch (tie)

Most Overrated: Jinder Mahal
2) Randy Orton
3) Minoru Suzuki and Kane (tie)
4) Shinsuke Nakamura

Match of the Year: Pete Dunne vs. Tyler Bate (NXT Takeover: Chicago)
2) Styles vs. Cena (Rumble) and Okada vs. Shibata (SAKURA Genesis) (tie)
3) Okada vs. Omega (WK11)
4) Omega vs. Naito (G1 Climax)

Best Weekly Show: Lucha Underground
2) NXT TV
3) Raw
4) SmackDown
5) ROH TV

Best Promotion: NJPW
2) Lucha Underground
3) WWE
4) PROGRESS
5) ROH

Most Outstanding Performer: Kazuchika Okada
2) AJ Styles
3) Tomohiro Ishii
4) Pete Dunne and Kenny Omega (tie)

Best PPV/Major Show: WrestleKingdom 11
2) NXT Takeover: Chicago
3) NXT Takeover: War Games
4) Ultima Lucha Tres and Dominion (tie)

Best Female Wrestler: Asuka
2) Alexa Bliss
3) Charlotte
4) Toni Storm
5) Kairi Sane

Worst Major Show/PPV: Battleground
2) Fastlane
3) Clash of Champions
4) Destruction in Fukushima
5) MITB and Elimination Chamber (tie)

Tag Team of the Year: The Usos
2) The Young Bucks
3) The Bar
4) The New Day
5) The Hardys

Biggest Disappointment: Shibata's injury/retirement and Randy Orton's entire year (tie)
2) Shinsuke Nakamura on the main roster
3) Jinder Mahal's WWE title run
4) Brock vs. BRAUN, Cody Rhodes' 2017, and WWE UK

Best Non Wrestler: Dario Cueto
2) Daniel Bryan
3) Corey Graves
4) Zelina Vega and Renee Young (tie)
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TheRock1525 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Can I just think that neither of them are anything special?

No because according to MWC either you love Sasha or hate womens wrestling

But seriously yes neither are that great

And yet I got all this shit for saying Bliss wasn't any good before.

Who the fuck ever got on you for saying the whore wasn't any good? Hell, who the fuck thinks she is any good?
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Whats the difference between wrestler of the year and most outstanding performer?

And underrated as in deserves a better position on the card?
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Pete Dunne wins my award for Most Likely to Need Clearasil
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GTM posted...

Whats the difference between wrestler of the year and most outstanding performer?

Good question. 411 defines an outstanding performer as the best bell-to-bell in ring performer, and I guess includes their mic work and overness when it comes to WotY.

GTM posted...

And underrated as in deserves a better position on the card?

Yeah, pretty much. They describe it as "the wrestler with the most ability, who, for whatever reason, doesnt get a push commensurate with their ability."
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GTM posted...

Whats the difference between wrestler of the year and most outstanding performer?

If it's the same as the WON awards, Most Outstanding is purely an in-ring award whereas WOTY also takes things like drawing power into account.
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https://tinyurl.com/y9wa8l5z

oh man at 2:52 of that (that's twice in a week... your rumble winner.....)

that intro is fantastic
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ZeroSignal620 posted...

Biggest Disappointment: Shibata's injury/retirement and Randy Orton's entire year (tie)
2) Shinsuke Nakamura on the main roster
3) Jinder Mahal's WWE title run
4) Brock vs. BRAUN, Cody Rhodes' 2017, and WWE UK

What?

Um... what?
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Whiskey_Nick posted...

https://tinyurl.com/y9wa8l5z

man this made me so fucking hype
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I too am disappointed in Cody becoming the biggest draw in ROH history.
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voltch posted...

I too am disappointed in Cody becoming the biggest draw in ROH history.

The two guys who ranked Cody's "disappointing" 2017 didn't explain it since he wasn't #1 on either list. So besides one of them calling his run lackluster, I got nothing.

But this is also 411, where one of their writers put Brock Lesnar in their top 5 most underrated wrestlers of the year.
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I mean, in terms of strength of booking, Cody had a great 2017.

In terms of match quality... eeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
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ScareChan posted...

Whiskey_Nick posted...

https://tinyurl.com/y9wa8l5z

man this made me so fucking hype

I'll reiterate what I said yesterday, since that video showed all the major instant moments in Raw history.

Shelton vs Shawn ending is the most astounding moment the show ever had.
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You're a fool, the most astounding moment in Raw history was Melina vs Alicia Fox
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https://twitter.com/mdmteddibiase/status/955525286879219717

Ted looking good for his age!

Ric...looking good for someone who had a 60% chance of death 3 months ago I suppose
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Ric Flair looking good for someone who has led Ric Flair's life is basically the best you've been able to hope for with the guy for the last ten years
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Enzo was accused of rape and is now suspended by WWE. Apparently it's been reported in October and is still under investigation.

Jesus.
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That's... pretty much the guy I would peg to do that.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Enzo was accused of rape and is now suspended by WWE. Apparently it's been reported in October and is still under investigation.

Jesus.

Can we just go over the Cruiserweight Curse? Cause everyone not named TJP and Akira Tozawa has met a terrible fate.

Rich Swann? Accused of domestic violence.
THE Brian Kendrick? Got his face smashed in by a botched GTS.
Neville? Currently sitting at home because WWE won't release him.
Enzo Amore? Accused of rape.
Kalisto? Is Kalisto.
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Kalisto does good lucha thing though.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Kalisto does good lucha thing though.

Right into a garbage bin.
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Also, I hope we get Cruiserweight Champion Drew Gulak.
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TheRock1525 posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Enzo was accused of rape and is now suspended by WWE. Apparently it's been reported in October and is still under investigation.

Jesus.

Can we just go over the Cruiserweight Curse? Cause everyone not named TJP and Akira Tozawa has met a terrible fate.

Rich Swann? Accused of domestic violence.
THE Brian Kendrick? Got his face smashed in by a botched GTS.
Neville? Currently sitting at home because WWE won't release him.
Enzo Amore? Accused of rape.
Kalisto? Is Kalisto.

I know someone who could go over it with a PowerPoint presentation
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Does this count as JaKyLing?

TheRock1525 posted...

Also, I hope we get Cruiserweight Champion Drew Gulak.

Jakyl25 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Enzo was accused of rape and is now suspended by WWE. Apparently it's been reported in October and is still under investigation.

Jesus.

Can we just go over the Cruiserweight Curse? Cause everyone not named TJP and Akira Tozawa has met a terrible fate.

Rich Swann? Accused of domestic violence.
THE Brian Kendrick? Got his face smashed in by a botched GTS.
Neville? Currently sitting at home because WWE won't release him.
Enzo Amore? Accused of rape.
Kalisto? Is Kalisto.

I know someone who could go over it with a PowerPoint presentation

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Close enough that Ill count it
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If I had to pick one WWE superstar who would sexually harass someone, I would honestly choose Enzo Amore and it wouldn't even take me more than a second. It might explain why Liv Tyler has scorch earthed any mention or anything concerning them as a couple. I wonder how long ago she did that.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

If I had to pick one WWE superstar who would sexually harass someone, I would honestly choose Enzo Amore and it wouldn't even take me more than a second. It might explain why Liv Tyler has scorch earthed any mention or anything concerning them as a couple. I wonder how long ago she did that.

Whoa, Liv Tyler and Enzo?!
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Wrong Liv <_<
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God damnit. I do that sometimes when I actually speak about her too. lol
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well bye bye Enzo
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Is it bad that my first reaction was the accuser was that bucket of KFC gold chicken
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Yes, it is.

Because Enzo tried to fuck that chicken and he couldn't. He was not able to fuck that chicken even a little bit.
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As always I would urge ya'll to wait for the details of the accusation to come out before jumping to any conclusions.

Talk about a fall from grace though, jeez.
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I mean, it certainly doesn't look good. He was in Phoenix on the day it was said to happen and a police report was actually filed, and they're just waiting on the results of DNA tests.
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Badaboom

Realest rapist in the room.
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Fall from grace implies he had grace to begin with.
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I mean, no matter what you think of him, dude was part of the hottest tag team act in NXT and it very much carried over to the main roster for a lot of their run.
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is this really a surprise from the guy who draws a dick as his signature?
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Exactly.

Year and a half ago everyone was so hyped for them every time they came out.
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I refrain from trying to draw conclusions about it based on a guy's character before hand, like I think that's pretty gross going "Oh yeah that guy definitely seems like a rapist to me."

But the fact that she went straight to the police and got an investigation going makes it sound a lot more legitimate.
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enzo's entire life gimmick -- not just wwe gimmick -- was basically 'borderline rapist' so i wouldn't say it's too gross
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Considering Liv Morgan all but confirmed dude was a sleazebag that cheated on her, stories of him being cheap with strippers, etc.

There's a lot of questions about this man's character leading into this.
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TheRock1525 posted...

stories of him being cheap with strippers

Dude, Enzo, thats lame as fuck
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