Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 159: Just How God Made Us

(+) Yeah! (+)

You literally said "refuse" in that sentence, not "morally objectionable".

Those are pretty different things. Hell, I got a procedure from a doctor that objected to it, so that happens all the time.
---

No, I am not.
---

I'm talking about going to a doctor with issues unrelated to being gay Or trans and being turned away once they find out you are.

No one fucking goes to any old doctor for major surgery. You seek out people you know can and will perform it.

Would you go to a gp and be surprised they won't give you a hip replacement? That's an asinine comment
---

Also why would join a specialization in genital reassignment surgery when you morally object to it? Those aren't the issues here. This is about getting standard treatments.
---

There are plenty of plastic surgeons in rural areas who are the only options for sexual reassignment.

And pxlated, that's really terrible. I can't imagine how anyone could try to justify that.
---

how is the question if progressive doctors would refuse to treat trump even relevant to anything?
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

And pxlated, that's really terrible. I can't imagine how anyone could try to justify that.

Ummm, did you read the Trump news that started this?
---

"All liberal doctors are good people who never break my personal moral code," is a garbage, bullshit argument that anyone with the slightest amount of ability to perceive bias should be able to see is bollocks. It's on a par with Vlado's stupid "all globalists are evil," arguments.
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

There are plenty of plastic surgeons in rural areas who are the only options for sexual reassignment.

You have to offer the procedure to begin with. Plastic surgeon isn't a catch all.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

And pxlated, that's really terrible. I can't imagine how anyone could try to justify that.

Ummm, did you read the Trump news that started this?

That news is almost exclusively about abortion. I cannot fathom how that could apply to not treating gays or trans. No religion is like "it's against our God to allow gays to live" (except Islam I guess).
---

Terastodon posted...

"All liberal doctors are good people who never break my personal moral code," is a garbage, bullshit argument that anyone with the slightest amount of ability to perceive bias should be able to see is bollocks.

Good thing no one is arguing that.
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

And pxlated, that's really terrible. I can't imagine how anyone could try to justify that.

Ummm, did you read the Trump news that started this?

That news is almost exclusively about abortion. I cannot fathom how that could apply to not treating gays or trans. No religion is like "it's against our God to allow gays to live" (except Islam I guess).

No religion is like its against our God to bake a cake for gay people but here we are
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

And pxlated, that's really terrible. I can't imagine how anyone could try to justify that.

Ummm, did you read the Trump news that started this?

That news is almost exclusively about abortion. I cannot fathom how that could apply to not treating gays or trans. No religion is like "it's against our God to allow gays to live" (except Islam I guess).

No religion is like its against our God to bake a cake for gay people but here we are

Come on, you know the difference. One is facilitating a ceremony that they morally oppose. The other is helping someone be not sick. I don't know of any court who has sided with a doctor for refusing to treat a gay person.
---

And I hope no court ever does, even with this new shit in place
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

One is facilitating a ceremony that they morally oppose.

How is it facilitating it? A wedding doesn't require a cake.

That's like saying you can prevent a car from moving by taking out the floor mats.
---

On a side note Im glad no one in these topics to my knowledge has bothered with the Trump/porn star sex scandal

Pure tabloid leering that has nothing to do with whether or not he should be President.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

And I hope no court ever does, even with this new shit in place

My point is I can't see that happening in the US without serious consequences to the physician. I don't think this order or whatever will affect that. It's just about abortion.
---

I hope you are correct
---

Jakyl25 posted...

On a side note Im glad no one in these topics to my knowledge has bothered with the Trump/porn star sex scandal

Pure tabloid leering that has nothing to do with whether or not he should be President.

The only quote I heard was that Trump supposedly said "you're just like my daughter" to her.

Which I mean shouldn't be surprising since he's wanted to fuck Ivanka for years.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

On a side note Im glad no one in these topics to my knowledge has bothered with the Trump/porn star sex scandal

Pure tabloid leering that has nothing to do with whether or not he should be President.

I wish it was that one notorious b8 porn star so we can bring new meaning to the dumpster fire meme
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

And I hope no court ever does, even with this new shit in place

My point is I can't see that happening in the US without serious consequences to the physician. I don't think this order or whatever will affect that. It's just about abortion.

Which kind of brings up the issue of life saving abortions and how a mother might not have time to wait for a doctor who is ok with it.
---

Was that Ivanka or ivanna?
---

Jakyl25 posted...

On a side note Im glad no one in these topics to my knowledge has bothered with the Trump/porn star sex scandal

Pure tabloid leering that has nothing to do with whether or not he should be President.

I think it's gross that she had to be paid off to not talk about it, but that speaks more to our society than it does to Trump honestly

everything else about the story is a whole lotta nothing

Jakyl25 posted...

On a side note Im glad no one in these topics to my knowledge has bothered with the Trump/porn star sex scandal

Pure tabloid leering that has nothing to do with whether or not he should be President.

we're just waiting for the inevitable full throttle topic to discuss this.
---

Without talking too directly about the porn stars Donald paid for, this adds a few more women Donald's cheated on Melania with and it makes me wonder how she's handling it. Gotta be hard on her and the family.
---

she knew what she was signing up for
---

HaRRicH posted...

Without talking too directly about the porn stars Donald paid for, this adds a few more women Donald's cheated on Melania with and it makes me wonder how she's handling it. Gotta be hard on her and the family.

I think at this point Melania treats Donald like the wife did at the end of the first black mirror episode. Probably doesn't even have much to do with any porn star issues either.
---

It's not the sex with a porn star, it's the paying off to keep things quiet. Means he's compromised and can be pressured into doing things he otherwise wouldn't to protect his secrets. That's not a good quality in a president.
---

https://twitter.com/SaraCarterDC/status/954167738204909569
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

There are plenty of plastic surgeons in rural areas who are the only options for sexual reassignment.

People travel the world for this operation. It's a very complex procedure, and getting a bad job done is potentially far worse than not getting it done at all. And lots of insurances don't cover it, so many have to pay out of pocket. If you're already paying $20,000+ for the most significant change in your life, a plane ticket to get to the right doctor is not a big deal.
---

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/politics/kfile-carl-higbie-on-the-radio/index.html

"I told this story the other day on my show. Somebody who lives in my condo association that has five kids, and it's her and her husband with the five kids and the mother, the grandmother of the kids, and they don't have jobs, they're there all the time -- I bet you can guess what color they are -- and they have no job," he said.
[...]
"The whole African-American thing gets me whipped up because it's like 99% -- and I'm paraphrasing here -- of people who write down African-American have never been to Africa," Higbie said. "So barring dual citizenship, you're American or you're African, but you're not both. I don't care what you think. That's another thing that just sets me off."
[...]
Speaking on 'Sound of Freedom' in December 2013, Higbie, while recounting a time he placed an advertisement to give away free firewood, said "the black race" had "lax" morals. He added that black women think "breeding is a form of government employment."
[...]
"I was called an Islamophobe and I was like, 'no, no, no, no, no, I'm not afraid of them. I don't like them. Big difference.' And they were like, 'well, you're racist.' I was like, fine if that's the definition of it, then I guess I am.'"

Chriiiiist there's so much here that it's tiring to list the rest of the "highlights"
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

There are plenty of plastic surgeons in rural areas who are the only options for sexual reassignment.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Complete bullshit.

Here, I googled a list of surgeons who offer transgender surgeries in the United States and Canada:

http://www.tssurgeryguide.com/SRS-Surgeon-Ratings.html

Now, quick note, about half of the listed surgeons don't even do genital surgery. These are people who perform some transgender surgeries, like mastectomy for trans men, who are presumably supportive, but just don't offer that surgery--I'm guesing they feel they don't have the expertise. Counting only the ones that provide genital surgeries looks like there are 11 genital surgeons in the United States and Canada. 11. Eleven. E-le-ven. According to this list, these surgeons are concentrated in 5 states and 1 province. So...according to this list, there are 45 states and 9 provinces with zero surgeons that do this surgery.

(To be clear, I'm not saying this number needs to be higher or anything. Canada seems ok with a single genital surgeon serving the entire country, and Canada has a decent record on trans human rights).
---

Swiss Town Denies Passport To Dutch Vegan For Being "Too Annoying"
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/swiss-town-denies-passport-to-dutch-vegan-because-she-is-annoying-125316437.html

Tanja Suter, the president of the local Swiss Peoples Party, claimed Ms Holten has a big mouth and that residents did not want to grant her citizenship if she annoys us and doesnt respect our traditions.

Ms Holten, who describes herself as a freelance journalist, model and drama student, has also campaigned against a number of other Swiss traditions like hunting, pig races and the noisy church bells in town.

She was previously rejected for citizenship in 2015 after residents voted to block her initial application.

The case has now been transferred to the Cantonal government in Aargau, which can overrule the decision and can still grant her a Swiss passport despite the objections of the locals.

Local residents in Switzerland often have a say in citizenship applications, which are decided by the cantons and towns where the applicants live rather than federal government.


---

psaltery posted...

campaigned against a number of other Swiss traditions like hunting, pig races and the noisy church bells in town.

This seems like a fair reason to deny citizenship.

psaltery posted...

Denies Passport

psaltery posted...

residents did not want to grant her citizenship

psaltery posted...

Local residents in Switzerland often have a say in citizenship applications

But why does the title say passport if this is regarding citizenship? Is she not a full citizen despite living there for over 3 decades?

This would make more sense if it was about someone attempting to move into Switzerland. Not someone who's been there 34 years.
---

I live in Switzerland and that story's like a year old! what's it doing here now?

anyway yeah switzerland has crazy strict citizenship laws, there are third generation residents here who aren't citizens and can't vote and stuff. it's all a bit mad.
---

metroid composite posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

There are plenty of plastic surgeons in rural areas who are the only options for sexual reassignment.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Complete bullshit.

Here, I googled a list of surgeons who offer transgender surgeries in the United States and Canada:

http://www.tssurgeryguide.com/SRS-Surgeon-Ratings.html

Now, quick note, about half of the listed surgeons don't even do genital surgery. These are people who perform some transgender surgeries, like mastectomy for trans men, who are presumably supportive, but just don't offer that surgery--I'm guesing they feel they don't have the expertise. Counting only the ones that provide genital surgeries looks like there are 11 genital surgeons in the United States and Canada. 11. Eleven. E-le-ven. According to this list, these surgeons are concentrated in 5 states and 1 province. So...according to this list, there are 45 states and 9 provinces with zero surgeons that do this surgery.

(To be clear, I'm not saying this number needs to be higher or anything. Canada seems ok with a single genital surgeon serving the entire country, and Canada has a decent record on trans human rights).

Hm, this is pretty surprising given the news with trans military members and whatnot. You'd assume these operations happen a hundred times a day.
---

So we're about to have a government shutdown... when one party controls the judiciary, both houses of Congress, and the executive. They really must be concerned with governing, huh.
---

Peace___Frog posted...

So we're about to have a government shutdown... when one party controls the judiciary, both houses of Congress, and the executive. They really must be concerned with governing, huh.

And amazingly congressmen are going on the radio blaming the democrats for it
---

Yep. Fuck the republican party, may it burn to the ground, never to rise again.
---

Peace___Frog posted...

So we're about to have a government shutdown... when one party controls the judiciary, both houses of Congress, and the executive. They really must be concerned with governing, huh.

The Senate needs 60 votes
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

So we're about to have a government shutdown... when one party controls the judiciary, both houses of Congress, and the executive. They really must be concerned with governing, huh.

The Senate needs 60 votes

However, the filibuster cannot be used to block a budget resolution. Thats because the Budget Act sets out a specific amount of time for debate in the Senate -- 50 hours. If a specific amount of debate time is enshrined in the controlling statute, the filibuster is moot. So a simple majority -- not 60 votes -- is all thats required to pass a budget resolution.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

So we're about to have a government shutdown... when one party controls the judiciary, both houses of Congress, and the executive. They really must be concerned with governing, huh.

The Senate needs 60 votes

However, the filibuster cannot be used to block a budget resolution. Thats because the Budget Act sets out a specific amount of time for debate in the Senate -- 50 hours. If a specific amount of debate time is enshrined in the controlling statute, the filibuster is moot. So a simple majority -- not 60 votes -- is all thats required to pass a budget resolution.

This is not true according to news outlets

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/politics/house-votes-government-shutdown/index.html
---

Maybe there's a difference between a budget resolution and a continuing resolution.
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Hm, this is pretty surprising given the news with trans military members and whatnot. You'd assume these operations happen a hundred times a day.

It's almost like right wing news outlets are trying to engineer an anti-trans panic
---

sorry jakyl but

https://twitter.com/jamisonfoser/status/954105026275819521

oh god oh dear god

I did not need to hear about this at all so now you must as well
---

metroid composite posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

There are plenty of plastic surgeons in rural areas who are the only options for sexual reassignment.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Complete bullshit.

Here, I googled a list of surgeons who offer transgender surgeries in the United States and Canada:

http://www.tssurgeryguide.com/SRS-Surgeon-Ratings.html

Now, quick note, about half of the listed surgeons don't even do genital surgery. These are people who perform some transgender surgeries, like mastectomy for trans men, who are presumably supportive, but just don't offer that surgery--I'm guesing they feel they don't have the expertise. Counting only the ones that provide genital surgeries looks like there are 11 genital surgeons in the United States and Canada. 11. Eleven. E-le-ven. According to this list, these surgeons are concentrated in 5 states and 1 province. So...according to this list, there are 45 states and 9 provinces with zero surgeons that do this surgery.

(To be clear, I'm not saying this number needs to be higher or anything. Canada seems ok with a single genital surgeon serving the entire country, and Canada has a decent record on trans human rights).

People generally travel to get these surgeries done. Even ftm top surgery. Even if there's someone close by, people prefer to go to one with better reviews. You can only get this stuff done once.
---

Also how many trans people do you think there are? Not nearly enough for hundreds of surgeries a day. Not to mention the fact that most trans people can't even afford surgery because the overwhelming majority of insurances don't cover it.
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Hm, this is pretty surprising given the news with trans military members and whatnot. You'd assume these operations happen a hundred times a day.

Could it be that the news you've heard about trans people in the military is being sensationalized? Fake, even?
---

I remember the case of at least one doctor who refused to treat the baby of a lesbian couple on religious grounds. Not the lesbian couple themselves, but their CHILD.
---

Dancedreamer posted...

I remember the case of at least one doctor who refused to treat the baby of a lesbian couple on religious grounds. Not the lesbian couple themselves, but their CHILD.

The sins of the parents yadda yadda yadda the old testament god is a dick and too many Christians don't realize the new testament is supposed to overwrite that.
---