Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 158: A Wolff in Sheep's Clothing

(+) Yeah! (+)

How can you ruin a guy's character if he's literally not denying what happened?
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By attempting to turn a bad date into a farcical account of sexual predation.
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How many "bad dates" involve a woman telling you she doesn't want to fuck and then you repeatedly asking her where you want to fuck her?
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Read the story then. The girl equates Aziz ordering white wine without asking if she'd prefer red as some kind of patriarchal power display. The "victim" sounds deranged.

@ExThaNemesis will probably have a stroke when he reads it.

I was pretty angry about it as I read it but then I sighed and said:

"This is Aziz Anzari and watching that smug hypocrite get eaten alive by his own people is worth putting up with this obviously over the top story."
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Also what made me upset the most about that article was the writing being so bad.

There's no way that mess got through an editor.

And you guys have to admit it reads an awful lot like Jackie's "story" from Rolling Stone.

HE MADE ME DRINK WHITE WINE WHEN I WANTED RED, AND ALSO HAVEN MONAHAN WAS THERE AND THERE WAS A GLASS TABLE.

smh
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Plenty. Men trying to stretch a triple into a home run has been a common aspect of Western dating for at least, what, two generations?

This woman's own account never attests to the oral being anything but consensual. They've already gone pretty far consensually. I understand that escalation between oral and intercourse can be psychologically significant for many people, but they never had sex. She voiced her discomfort, asked for an uber, and got one.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Plenty.

And that's not a problem because...?

This is why guys actually rape women, because they're taught "no is not the end, just keep forcing it."
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I have no actual comment on the article itself

I just want to say that Mr. "Lick Her Ass" also being "Yeah, man, you always push for more when they say no" is the most comically unsurprising thing ever

Like, say what you want about SephG, but I have zero problem connecting Yo to the Dennis "Implication" gig.
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I'd also like to point out stretching a triple into a home run is a shit-tier analogy, unless the analogy is "it's so rare to get an inside-the-park home run out of a triple that only an idiot would bother trying to stretch it that far."
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Actually, you know, maybe it's more apt than I thought. Because usually you only score yourself off a triple if an error is made. So maybe it's admitting that the only way you can go from foreplay to sex in a situation where she doesn't want it is if she makes an error.
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I'm glad that at least Yoblazer sees the lunacy of this whole hysteria, where we've turned "I regret this" into "I was violently assaulted."

I've given up hope on most of you for a long time but at least someone was apparently listening.
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BTW, did we talk about Dan Harmon's apology? Because that was actually a good one. Where he actually opened up without provocation about what he did (Well, kinda without provocation. He said 2017 was the year of the shitbag, including himself and the woman he harassed tweeted at him before he finally said what he did).
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I'm not going to insult anyone here, but the details of this particular story - even from her account solely - imo simply don't paint Ansari as a sexual predator, and I certainly don't think it's a damning enough incident to ruin her career.

For an incident that IS (to say the least), Eliza Dushku just came forward and said that the lead stunt coordinator on the set of True Lies molested her when she was 12 years old. The details are absolutely vile.

http://time.com/5102673/eliza-dushku-molested-true-lies/

I wonder what the criminal statute of limitations are for something like this, and whether this guy can get prosecuted.
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Glancing through the story a bit, I think it's somewhere in the middle

It doesn't seem like he actually forced anything, and nothing they did doesn't sound consensual. Does it sound like he was skeezy as fuck? Absolutely. But it doesn't sound like assault. That said, it doesn't sound like just blowing up regret, either, since there was more pressure there from him than there should have been.

So I'm not going to jump into the "nothing to see here" camp, because he did make some poor choices and good on him for recognizing that and apologizing (apparently early, too). That said, I also don't think it's something that should even be close to being compared to some of the actual assault cases that have happened.
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Inviso posted...

Sephy's argument in this topic is like if someone didn't understand Dennis Reynolds' "implication" speech was being said by a total scumbag, and wasn't something to serve as a personal mantra in real life.

I appreciate that we as a board know this scene well enough to reference it casually in times of need.

ExThaNemesis posted...

Also what made me upset the most about that article was the writing being so bad.

There's no way that mess got through an editor.

Thank you. The white wine-bit's gone of control -- that was probably meant to be a detail to color the night, not to shape the villain -- but regardless the detail should have been edited out and some other parts needed rewrites.

I'm glad Aziz immediately apologized. It sounds pretty skeevy and we'll see if anybody else steps up about his behavior. I had a personal situation from last week that was just an unwanted kiss, and that's still pissed me off...I'm not filing for assault, but also I'm not messing with her anymore and understand why she'd hold this against Aziz, especially since this was more significant than a kiss.

My main question lingering is why Aziz left the date so early and felt like this was the moment to go so hard.

It'd help to hear his side of the story. I hope there aren't more people with shitty experiences like this with him.
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Im with Yo/Seph on this one, how could you not read the wine line and immediately think something was up?

As Seph said, they were having lobster, Aziz was paying, and she apparently didnt complain. Where is the issue??

And she said in the article that she gave verbal and nonverbal cues, but then when she texted him she literally just said nonverbaland he immediately apologized.

Lmao at ExTha though. Way to have principles dude, a guy is being accused of sexual misconductyour bread and butter but because he upset you, you admit to being ok with it. Nice.
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Also, I didn't notice this detail the first time, but the date started at his apartment, and he then walked her out and to the restaurant, ending back at his apartment. He wasn't tearing off clothes the minute the two were alone.
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It's telling that the response to my history of men trying to force their way into my pants is "you poor baby".

Anyway. Again. The issue isn't the consensual stuff that happened. The issue is everything after "I'm not comfortable with this".

That you guys are all hung up on the wine line is pretty amusing.
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Also i dont think anyone said his career should be ruined over this. But being called out for it is perfectly ok.
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And also, if we doing the whole anecdotal evidence thing...every woman I have been with, hell every woman i know is 100% about consent and not "turning a no into a yes" (unless it's part of a roleplay), myself included.

And i know a lot of kinky girls. Used to go to the local munches frequently.
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Be careful extha, yo, and Tony. If you don't agree that Aziz is a sexual predator, you are a scumbag in the eyes of your board 8 compatriots!
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Two things.

Kink requires clear communication. That was a bad post.

I don't think Aziz comes off as a sexual predator here.

Some of these replies remind me of /r/niceguys which scares me.
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pxlated posted...

Also i dont think anyone said his career should be ruined over this. But being called out for it is perfectly ok.

Maybe not in this topic, but in today's climate people are out for blood.

And maybe things are different where you live, but the "turning a no into a yes" usually starts with the initial encounter. Women are expected to not approach men. The better looking ones will be approached by several, and their default answer is no. The guy's goal is to change her answer. Sure the dating game is a bunch of bullshit, but without it ugly guys would never score.

Once it gets to the bedroom, in my experience, when they say no it often doesn't mean that they don't want to have sex. They feel the urge but it's against their principals to fuck on the first date. Which is completely reasonable, but then it's also a game for the guy to try to get in her pants. It seems Aziz's girl really was uncomfortable, but I think it's reasonable that he didn't see that.

We probably won't hear his side of the story because men telling their side is discouraged today, and he's supportive of the movement.

I understand the idea that "people saying this is normal means that things need to change." Maybe so, I just don't think it needs to be at the expense of normal guys' characters and careers.
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Vlado has thankfully weighed in on the side of the woman
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

We probably won't hear his side of the story because men telling their side is discouraged today, and he's supportive of the movement.

They gave him and his team about 6 hours to respond. They passed their entire story by them prior to publishing.

I'm not saying 6 hours is really sufficient. But 100 posts over this is overkill, so if we could go back to actual politics soon, that'd be swell.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

For a girl to document a bad date and post intimate details about this just screams "nutcase" to me.

Nelson_Mandela posted...

The woman is 22 years old. I have enough respect for women to trust that she can make her own decisions.

ok
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And maybe things are different where you live, but the "turning a no into a yes" usually starts with the initial encounter. Women are expected to not approach men. The better looking ones will be approached by several, and their default answer is no. The guy's goal is to change her answer.

Right, which is why most of that should occur in public places where women aren't trapped alone with the man. Bars, restaurants, wherever they go if they're on a date.

Sure the dating game is a bunch of bullshit, but without it ugly guys would never score.

The more accurate statement would be "without it ugly guys would never score with better looking women." Getting laid is actually incredibly easy when your goal isn't "fuck the hottest woman in the room."

Once it gets to the bedroom, in my experience, when they say no it often doesn't mean that they don't want to have sex.

And that's the problem, and this is Rush Limbaugh level of thinking ("No means yes if you know how to spot it.") as it works under the assumption that you just have to break down a no barrier eventually because she does want to have sex.

Which is completely reasonable, but then it's also a game for the guy to try to get in her pants.

The crux of the matter: men treating sex like a game. It's completely irrelevant what his partner's wishes and desires are because this is a "game" that he needs to "win." Admitting the no actually means no would imply he'd "lost." Therefore they need to turn that no into a yes. By any means necessary, for some guys. "I mean, I had to get her to drink until she passed out, but then I got to fuck her so I won the game."

If a woman wants to be principled and not fuck on the first date, why not, I dunno, respect that principle?
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The expectation that sex should happen on the first date is pretty ridiculous. This is what happens when people base their morals/expectations on dumb romantic comedies.
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redrocket_pub posted...

The expectation that sex should happen on the first date is pretty ridiculous. This is what happens when people base their morals/expectations on dumb romantic comedies.

Welcome to societal pressures:

Put out on the first date? You're a slut according to most women.
Don't put out on a first date? You're a prude according to most men. And a guy you like might pass you over for someone who will.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Don't put out on a first date? You're a prude according to most men. And a guy you like might pass you over for someone who will.

Tbf the woman would have dodged a bullet here.
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Sephy has been on point all along btw, although "feigning chastity" is opening a pretty shitty can of worms that isn't necessarily true. Women (generally speaking) enjoy to play hard to get and expect the man to fight for her through persistence and dominant behaviors. A man isn't a mind reader nor are they psychics; if the woman gives you a totally consensual blowjob you can't just guess that she felt uncomfortable through it or felt pressured to do it. You just assume she wanted to do it. And yes, the wine anecdote is just a small detail but also very telling of the story the woman is attempting to frame -- he was needlessly forceful even to go as far as not ask for her preferred choice of wine, and yes, it renders her account firmly into lol territory. If you aren't into the wine he got, just... speak up?

Aziz apologized because a) he did what the woman said he did, and b) because it's the politically correct thing to do. He played his cards and took it too far since he had a bad read on her. End of story.
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jesus christ
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Omniscientless posted...

Sephy has been on point all along btw,

Careful, Rock is going to think you're worse than trash!
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We are all trash, let's be real.
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sephy said "AWW POOR BABY" to a woman who said she has been sexually assaulted in this topic. yeah, he's been totally on point.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

sephy said "AWW POOR BABY" to a woman who said she has been sexually assaulted in this topic. yeah, he's been totally on point.

I am shocked you have the social acuity to detect sarcasm. I'm happy for you, man!
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At what point is it considered too much golfing for the President of the United States?
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EndOfDiscOne posted...

Once it gets to the bedroom, in my experience, when they say no it often doesn't mean that they don't want to have sex. They feel the urge but it's against their principals to fuck on the first date. Which is completely reasonable

you could have stopped here and had a perfectly fine post

why did you not stop here
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scarletspeed7 posted...

At what point is it considered too much golfing for the President of the United States?

depends on the color of his skin
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Let's say the skin color is plaid.
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Kilt plaid or hipster lumberjack plaid?
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Either
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Lmao at ExTha though. Way to have principles dude, a guy is being accused of sexual misconductyour bread and butter but because he upset you, you admit to being ok with it. Nice.

Sorry but this guy has been trying to paint himself as "better than" guys like me/sephG and has honestly built a career out of doing it. If I'm not allowed to have some schaudenfraude at his expense, you're being too strict.

I commented that the story seemed like a joke and a half, but I'm not going to go to bat to defend Aziz Ansari's honor when he would throw me under the bus with a quickness if the situation was reversed.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

I commented that the story seemed like a joke and a half, but I'm not going to go to bat to defend Aziz Ansari's honor when he would throw me under the bus with a quickness if the situation was reversed.

Reminds me of the neogaf admin. His story was even more tame than this one, but it's hard to feel too bad for him when he was encouraging rules such as "believe the woman and judge the accused harshly."

I wonder if Aziz has any celebrity friends who will stand up for him. That never goes over well anymore.
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time for some REAL NEWS

https://tinyurl.com/yd3bgjub

President Trump and House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) were alone in the presidential suite on Air Force One, flying east toward Washington in early October, when the president reached for a handful of Starbursts, the fruit-flavored, box-shaped chewy candy.

But instead of unwrapping all of the treats, the president was careful to pluck out and eat two particular flavors: cherry and strawberry, McCarthy noticed.

Were there, having a little dessert, and he offers me some, McCarthy recalled in an interview. Just the red and the pink. A bit later, a couple of his aides saw me with those colors and told me, Those are the presidents favorites.

Days later, the No. 2 Republican in the House known for his relentless cultivation of political alliances bought a plentiful supply of Starbursts and asked a staffer to sort through the pile, placing only those two flavors in a jar. McCarthy made sure his name was on the side of the gift, which was delivered to a grinning Trump, according to a White House official.

someone tell this poor man that they make bags with just the red flavors
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but he needed the pink too

Also, this is the first time I support Trump on something.
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well I can't say trump has bad taste in starburst
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the pink ones come in the red box!
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CelesMyUserName posted...

well I can't say trump has bad taste in starburst

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The Mana Sword posted...

the pink ones come in the red box!

I've never bought those, but now I will.
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