Current Events > GOP tax plan would hike taxes on 31% of middle class americans

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/08/gop-bill-would-hike-taxes-on-31-percent-of-middle-class-americans-by-2027-study-finds/

a growing number of nonpartisan analyses show that some middle-class Americans would not get more money in their pockets under the GOP plan. Instead, they would face higher tax bills, a potential pitfall in selling this plan to the public and to enough lawmakers for it to pass.

Nine percent of middle-class tax filers (those earning between $48,600 and $86,100) would pay more in taxes next year, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center released Wednesday. By 2027, 31 percent of middle-class filers would see tax hikes, the center said.

I've already run the numbers and it'd certainly increase my taxes. I don't mind paying more, but not so that large corporations can pay less. That's not where I want my tax dollars going.
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bump
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Tfw when the small government is raising taxes
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Americans keep winning
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Everyone will be saving money in this plan right Trumpets? That's what you kept saying.
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TFW when you're a 9%er
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I get more, thanks for paying your fair share
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Darkman124 posted...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/08/gop-bill-would-hike-taxes-on-31-percent-of-middle-class-americans-by-2027-study-finds/

a growing number of nonpartisan analyses show that some middle-class Americans would not get more money in their pockets under the GOP plan. Instead, they would face higher tax bills, a potential pitfall in selling this plan to the public and to enough lawmakers for it to pass.

Nine percent of middle-class tax filers (those earning between $48,600 and $86,100) would pay more in taxes next year, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center released Wednesday. By 2027, 31 percent of middle-class filers would see tax hikes, the center said.

I've already run the numbers and it'd certainly increase my taxes. I don't mind paying more, but not so that large corporations can pay less. That's not where I want my tax dollars going.

The smallest of those 'large corporations' still pay over ten times what you will.
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Friendly reminder that the upper middle class regularly shifts from "middle class" to "rich" and back again when it's politically expedient to do so.

Most of this "increase" seems to come from splitting the 15% bracket into the 10% and 25% piles, and removing the mortgage interest deduction that never should have existed.

darkjedilink posted...

The smallest of those 'large corporations' still pay over ten times what you will.

utterly irrelevant.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Friendly reminder that the upper middle class regularly shifts from "middle class" to "rich" and back again when it's politically expedient to do so.

Most of this "increase" seems to come from splitting the 15% bracket into the 10% and 25% piles, and removing the mortgage interest deduction that never should have existed.

most of it is from killing the SALT deduction. mortgage interest deduction isn't being removed, just capped (along with property tax)
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creativerealms posted...

Everyone will be saving money in this plan right Trumpets? That's what you kept saying.

Well, you see, rich people will be making more money and will therefore decide to invest more in their employees that every single one of them has and will hire more people and pay their employees more money. So sure, your taxes are going up, but you're now making way more money too! That also means we no longer need social programs and people can pay for their own healthcare. So many wins it's unbelievable!
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Your tax rate would actually go down. The problem for people living in high tax states is you can not use your state taxes as a Federal tax "loss" anymore. Its not the Federal Governments fault you have allowed your state to increase your taxes so high all the while short changing the Federal Government.

I also find it kind of sickening that "middle class" is now defined by a single worker making at to nearly double the amount of income the average American household makes. Now that I look at it again, even the low end of "middle class" is more than 3k higher than the average household.
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BuzzyTheCat posted...

The problem for people living in high tax states is you can not use your state taxes as a Federal tax "loss" anymore. Its not the Federal Governments fault you have allowed your state to increase your taxes so high all the while short changing the Federal Government.

The problem for people living in high tax states is republicans want to double-tax their income.
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Darkman124 posted...

most of it is from killing the SALT deduction.

This seems to reek of "fuck Illinois!" to me.

Questionmarktarius posted...

This seems to reek of "f*** Illinois!" to me.

It's certainly a politically expedient move--most states that benefit from it are blue.

Similarly, most people who benefit from not paying tax on waived tuition are democrats (PhD candidates).

Similarly, most people who benefit from deducting the cost of school supplies are democrats (teachers).

All of these deductions are being removed. The principle certainly seems to be "they weren't gonna vote for us anyway, so fuck them."

As a note, businesses that purchase school supplies are still allowed to deduct the cost of those supplies from their taxable income.

I am not exaggerating this: it's from the recent questioning in the house by rep DelBene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2B00vqD4zI
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surprise surprise, the GOP favors the rich at the expense of everyone else.
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Darkman124 posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

The problem for people living in high tax states is you can not use your state taxes as a Federal tax "loss" anymore. Its not the Federal Governments fault you have allowed your state to increase your taxes so high all the while short changing the Federal Government.

The problem for people living in high tax states is republicans want to double-tax their income.

Its eliminating a loophole that shouldn't have ever existed. If we are all in this together as equals its totally unfair for a New York or California resident to be able to write off their state income taxes as a loss, when someone in a place like Alaska, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, etc can not write off a single penny. The entire country has effectively been subsidizing a handful of states
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GOP economic policy literally only benefits the 1% lmao.
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shockthemonkey posted...

And thats being really generous with what qualifies as middle class, aint it?

It's using a standard that the tax policy center has used for a very, very long time. Nobody took issue with it before.
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BuzzyTheCat posted...

Its eliminating a loophole that shouldn't have ever existed. If we are all in this together as equals its totally unfair for a New York or California resident to be able to write off their state income taxes as a loss, when someone in a place like Alaska, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, etc can not write off a single penny. The entire country has effectively been subsidizing a handful of states

Residents in Alaska, Florida, Texas, and Tennessee can all write off their state or local sales tax in lieu of their state income tax.

They will lose this ability along with their compatriots with the new bill.

You should learn tax law before you join this discussion.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Friendly reminder that the upper middle class regularly shifts from "middle class" to "rich" and back again when it's politically expedient to do so.

average before-tax income for the middle quintile, which is what this is references, is $66,000

actually, overall, 25% of americans see a tax increase, including 37.6% of those in the top quintile -- that is the upper middle class you're talking about
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Darkman124 posted...

BuzzyTheCat posted...

The problem for people living in high tax states is you can not use your state taxes as a Federal tax "loss" anymore. Its not the Federal Governments fault you have allowed your state to increase your taxes so high all the while short changing the Federal Government.

The problem for people living in high tax states is republicans want to double-tax their income.

So taxation is bad when the right does it, but not the left?
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The GOP tax plan needs to be defeated. This gilded age we're living through can't go on.

BuzzyTheCat posted...

I also find it kind of sickening that "middle class" is now defined by a single worker making at to nearly double the amount of income the average American household makes.

i'm actually going to take you to task on this claim.

post the number you believe the average (and median) american household makes.
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The middle class has had it too easy in this country for decades, its time that they pay their fair share
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Glass_Phantom posted...

The GOP tax plan needs to be defeated.

20%. No deductions.
There you go. That's the "tax plan" we oughtta have.

Darkman124 posted...

Residents in Alaska, Florida, Texas, and Tennessee can all write off their state or local sales tax in lieu of their state income tax.

They will lose this ability along with their compatriots with the new bill.

You should learn tax law before you join this discussion.

also, the logic behind deducting income & sales taxes isn't any different than the logic behind exempting property taxes -- I think they're enabled by the same legislation actually
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darkjedilink posted...

So taxation is bad when the right does it, but not the left?

Considering that taxation increases by the right serve primarily to reduce taxation for those least in need of help--yes.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Glass_Phantom posted...

The GOP tax plan needs to be defeated.

20%. No deductions.
There you go. That's the "tax plan" we oughtta have.

We both know that would be a massive tax hike on about 60% of the US population.
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i cant wait to pay more taxes, this coupled with my state's increase in our already-high property tax bills is going to ensure i am never able to buy a home
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Asherlee10 posted...

The top end is $87k/year? What would happen to those that make more than $87k/year?

I already pay a ton in taxes. I need a better accountant. I think last time I looked, I already paid like $37k in taxes in about 7 months.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites/default/files/publication/147726/2001579_preliminary_distributional_analysis_of_the_tax_cuts_and_jobs_act_0.pdf

table 4 near the end shows the % of people in each quintile who would see a tax increase vs a tax decrease
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A tax hike.

As in, your taxes take a hike? Sounds good.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Glass_Phantom posted...

The GOP tax plan needs to be defeated.

20%. No deductions.
There you go. That's the "tax plan" we oughtta have.

A tax plan to put even more money and political power in the pockets of the wealthy, which will starve our country for revenue and destroy what makes us great. No, that doesn't sound like a good idea.

Cost of living continues to rise
Wages continue to either stagnate or decrease
Less taxes on the wealthy and corporations

This is going to get really bad in some years isn't it?
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Asherlee10 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Glass_Phantom posted...

The GOP tax plan needs to be defeated.

20%. No deductions.
There you go. That's the "tax plan" we oughtta have.

Why no deductions? Don't deductions work as incentives, which in turn, helps the economy?

It acts as social engineering, which serves no purpose other than nudging political idealism.
Speaking of idealism, the rate should be around five percent, but the reality is the government is addicted to spending.

Asherlee10 posted...

Sorry, I'm not following you.

which part?

Questionmarktarius posted...

reality is the government is addicted to spending

I think it's much more accurate to say the population is addicted to government spending.
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Darkman124 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

reality is the government is addicted to spending

I think it's much more accurate to say the population is addicted to government spending.

Ooooo!

Yes.

literal_garbage posted...

The middle class has had it too easy in this country for decades, its time that they pay their fair share

The rich pay much less than their fair share because of loopholes.
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But the idea that we can 'break' this addiction overnight is not a realistic one. It's a result of the economic race to the bottom we've discussed--government makes up for what the free market (and private charity) will not do.
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fiscal policy is used to counteract regulatory policy

https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/steve-teles-brink-lindsey-captured-economy-tyler-cowen-3290440f97a0

@Questionmarktarius I think you'd like this

excerpt:

And I know that by saying that one argument we make, and this relates to an article I wrote called Kludgeocracy, which is that its really these other parts, other ways the government influences the economy other than directly through taxing and spending that are most likely to have these anti-growth, incumbent-protecting kind of qualities. That is the more salient, the more visible the policy instrument is, the more easy it is to capture for the purposes of upward redistribution. Given that a substantial amount of our spending is entitlements and they We have difference of opinion. I think those are basically progressive on net given the inflow and outflow in them. And that our tax system, if anything, may be too progressive. That is, its too progressive to raise the amount of revenue that we need for the amount of state that we want.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

It acts as social engineering

What's wrong with social engineering?

Asherlee10 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Sorry, I'm not following you.

which part?

All of it.

Okay.
The first income tax under the 16th amendment topped out at 6 or 7%. Then it quickly got out of hand after some archduke got shot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_history_of_the_United_States#Income_tax

Social Engineering is why you're paying taxes to subsidize someone way wealthier than you buying an electric car you can't afford.

Glass_Phantom posted...

What's wrong with social engineering?

It's functionally identical to extortion.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Social Engineering is why you're paying taxes to subsidize someone way wealthier than you buying an electric car you can't afford.

Considering how much the world will suffer in the next century due to global warming, I'm happier if fewer people drive polluting cars.