Board 8 > Gauntlet Crew Ranks Martial Arts Movies - "Don't think! Feeeel!"

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm gonna have to watch that one, as Kill Bill Vol. 1 is probably my favorite on the list (well, maybe Inviso was talking about Vol 2 who knows!?) but I haven't seen that one. Two most reliable raters on the list rating it highly speaks well to it in any case.
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Outlier Rankings

JONA - 209
Inviso - 209
scarlet - 203
Snake - 188
Wickle - 187
Karo - 178
Johnbobb - 110

Vis and I tie up.

Hint for 16.

Features fighting for competition.
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Fuck it, I'm gonna pick Enter the Dragon.
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Lopen posted...

I'm gonna have to watch that one, as Kill Bill Vol. 1 is probably my favorite on the list (well, maybe Inviso was talking about Vol 2 who knows!?) but I haven't seen that one. Two most reliable raters on the list rating it highly speaks well to it in any case.

but you also listed Snake among the most reliable and he had it in the 30s
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This seems like a fair spot for Karate Kid

anything higher than this is a bit too high
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I have no problem with dragging down someone's #1 if they call every Asian person JONA in every write-up. Also he's not even a first-generation Asian.
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ok but if every Asian person is JONA why are Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan referred to by name

are you sure it's not just referring to generic characters whose names aren't worth remembering?
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I don't know. I think you are generic and aren't worth remembering and yet I don't call you JONAbobb, so that can't possibly be it.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I have no problem with dragging down someone's #1 if they call every Asian person JONA in every write-up. Also he's not even a first-generation Asian.

He's also not even a first-generation hispanic
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ouch
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I hadn't dropped a scathing comment in a while so I figured it was time. I'm not that invested in this list unfortunately. Good list though.
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Snake's reliability rankings have gone significantly down since I made that initial assessment after Bloodsport (though he's still probably #3). Also his write-up chastises the film for not being innovative enough which I frankly find to be an overrated aspect in movies to begin with-- I'll take a well executed cliche over a lot of things-- which makes me more inclined to discard it.
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Snake's reliability was suspect after he won Worst User for three straight years.
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Wickle's reliability doesn't exist because of having Rush Hour at #2.
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Wickle isn't even his real name so naturally there is no reliability. Right @Inviso ?
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Wickle was already a lock for 7th well before Rush Hour tbqh
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WickIebee posted...

Wickle's reliability doesn't exist because of having Rush Hour at #2.

And for hating on CTHD
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Hating on CTHD is about the only thing he's said that I agree with actually !
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Mega Mana posted...

And for hating on CTHD

Anyone who thinks that shit was a masterpiece has far less reliability than me.
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this is my first list, so I'm pretty invested in it

pleasantly surprised to see how many opinions line up with my own
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Actually anyone who thinks someone's credibility is based on their opinion of a 15 year old movie is the least credible of all.
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WickIebee posted...

Mega Mana posted...

And for hating on CTHD

Anyone who thinks that shit was a masterpiece has far less reliability than me.

literally every film critic has less reliability than you
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There are not a lot of movies left that feature competition
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Johnbobb posted...

this is my first list, so I'm pretty invested in it

pleasantly surprised to see how many opinions line up with my own

I never like it when everyone has the same opinion as me. I like to get unique takes on movies, and I like to have a unique take. This list, however, is a lot like the horror list for me. I don't think I have much heft in the genre and therefore had very little to say.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I never like it when everyone has the same opinion as me. I like to get unique takes on movies, and I like to have a unique take. This list, however, is a lot like the horror list for me. I don't think I have much heft in the genre and therefore had very little to say.

I actually feel the opposite, mostly because I'm unfamiliar with the genre

I feel like I learned a lot more from watching these movies than I would've from a genre that I'm more familiar with
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I think the problem is that, of the nearly 4000 films I've seen now, very few are of this genre, and I'm not likely to go back to this genre in the future. I'm a man who loves long scripts - these films don't produce reams of paper, if you know what I mean.
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I mean, I still don't think I'm super invested in the genre, but there's a good handful that I ended up liking way more than I was expecting (without spoilers) and those are the ones I think I can see myself pursuing in the future, when I wouldn't have otherwise.
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Got bored, decided I wanted to give thoughts on the review crew and guess the #1s. Maybe it'll be interesting for you guys to read like your rankings have been for me-- I'm GIVING BACK.

Reliability rankings:

1. JONA - You can tell this is his category and I will be shocked if I dislike any of his top 10 or if he rates any of my favorites particularly low. Generally my sanity check to all of the other rankings. Even on the ones I disagree with I can generally understand why I disagree. Projected #1 - Probably some gem I haven't seen, but if it's a movie I've seen let's just go with Kill Bill Vol 1 since that's my #1 and JONA is a great man.

2. Inviso - Seems to have a compatible basic mindset with me, but I feel like he's not harsh enough on certain forms of stupidity in this genre that I would normally be. Which is an improvement over hating all forms of stupidity in the genre, to be fair.

3. Snake - Good tastes overall but overvalues certain things (uniqueness is actually the big one-- note how many movies he'd called forgettable, though he also talks about 'choreography' a lot which to me is secondary to emotion and such in the fights) that I don't find particularly important so I find his write-up more important than the ranking moreso than with others. Projected #1: Kill Bill Vol 2.

4. Scarlet - This is the guy Inviso is complaining about when he says "takes things too seriously." That being said if I dumb his tastes down I find the rankings seem to line up with mine. Like dude has Crouching Tiger at #4, which is obviously way off from my ranking of the movie, but among the movies with "good acting" or whatever he's probably going to have them in the same order I would. Projected #1 - Hero.

5. Bobb - Seems out of his element but generally a positive guy on these movies and/or in general. Liking Jackie Chan is major plus. Projected #1 - Drunken Master 2

6. Karo - Bizarro world Johnbobb. Seems to prefer to be a cynical bastard, or just hates Martial Arts movies. I mean even his high teen rankings read negatively. Seeing how high he can go before it actually feels like he likes a movie is a fun game. Projected #1: The Karate Kid

7. Wickle - It's like if you took Karo, then threw a random number generator's list and averaged the two. He seems to reliably harp on random things I don't care about and so I pretty much just discard his rankings. Projected #1: Chocolate, just because he mentioned it if nothing else, cause I have no idea otherwise.

Right now. We'll see how that develops over time.
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My number one is kind of... expected if you know me, but not for the reasons just anyone could know me for.
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I think my number 1 is a little out of place in terms of both my list and the overall list but I think the rest of my top handful are pretty easier to align with
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I take these responses to mean I have gone 0-2. Or perhaps I am being swerved and I have gone 2-2. WHO COULD KNOW.

If I get even one of them right I'll consider it a success, though. (And that wasn't the main reason I started on the tangent anyway!)

(I have mentally changed my guesses based on these HINTS-- we'll see if I can convert this 0-2 with two attempts on each of you)
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Lopen posted...

He seems to reliably harp on random things I don't care about

And this is one of the major things about me. I'm kind of a critic in a vastly different scenario as Scarlet. Scarlet has told us his thing, script. He pays close attention to the script and basically judges everything on what it might reference, what might be unique, and many other criteria that I would not be doing him justice by trying to explain it myself. It's not all there is to him, but it makes sense to him.

Me? I have far too specific tastes to be a good critic, as I also cannot judge something fairly from a "I have no investment in this subject" kind of attribute. But I'm very analytic when it comes down to it. The problem? Yeah, not many people care. There's an anime that there are essentially three types of people that watched it. 1) Those that compared it to another show and then dropped it because it wasn't the same. 2) People that like it because it's meant to be a relaxing show and it works like that. 3) Me, who looks at the post-apocalyptic setting and is sitting there bitching because it hasn't shown us what really happened to the other humans.
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Also, for what it's worth, the only films I can say I honestly disliked are my #28 and below

and everything like 14 and above I thought ranged from great-amazing
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I will say I tend to enjoy your write-ups more than Karo's because at least you don't hate every movie, but I just find your rankings and write-ups completely useless to gauge whether I'll like a movie or not because your tastes do not line up with mine and unlike the others I can't even find a pattern in the divergence either.

Like we do happen to line up on some movies, probably even more often than I do with Karo, but yeah, total crapshoot.
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yeah that's fair
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Was talking to Wickle there btw sorry if it was ambiguous.

Though I mean most of that applies to you, Johnbobb, as well, aside from "having no idea how to read you" because I do actually have a somewhat decent idea of what makes you tick I think so I can adjust those elements to my own tastes as well as your write-up to try and apply it to me.

I doubt I'll see too many total surprises from you from here on even if I don't expect to agree with a lot of it, aside from maybe your #1!
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Lopen posted...

Seems to prefer to be a cynical bastard, or just hates Martial Arts movies.

both, actually
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Lopen posted...

I will say I tend to enjoy your write-ups more than Karo's because at least you don't hate every movie, but I just find your rankings and write-ups completely useless to gauge whether I'll like a movie or not because your tastes do not line up with mine and unlike the others I can't even find a pattern in the divergence either.

Like we do happen to line up on some movies, probably even more often than I do with Karo, but yeah, total crapshoot.

The best bit is, to try and ask me again about it in a different light. I always write these write-ups directly after a movie, so I kind of end up trashing something that stuck with me through the film. Maybe it's still my dislikes are far different than most others. But if you try to find my likes, it's a lot more reasonable.
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Lopen posted...

Projected #1 - Hero.

Lopen posted...

This is the guy Inviso is complaining about when he says "takes things too seriously."

Totally inaccurate. I love comedy. I just think there is such a thing as objectively bad comedy. And as my #1 will suggest, there is a place for comedy that I love.
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I think it's accurate, but perhaps not in the way you're taking it.

I mean you like your fair share of silly as evidenced by your placement of Big Trouble In Little China but I think it needs to have some sort of thing it's doing right on a technical level. Like I don't see you ever saying "this movie is so bad it's good"-- maybe I'm wrong on that, though!
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Okay, yeah. That's true. I think there's only a couple instances of "So bad it's good" that work at all. And it has to be so overblown on badness that it would be a 1/100 score (btw JONA, you didn't include any of my ratings so far) to even have a shot at the "So bad it's good" moniker. Also, you can't try to have a "So bad it's good" movie. It's effortless. You have to make a terrible movie and not know it.

Otherwise, yes. Silliness is great, but it needs to be borne out of a place of effort and wit. You can't just force a joke to work by beating it with a sledgehammer most of the time. Most humor requires a scalpel.

So yeah, when it comes to wrestling you'll see me have very similar opinions.
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Yeah. It's just a bit more analytical than I am, particularly for this genre which I think almost gets benefit out of bad acting once in a while. Like to keep on the wrestling comparison, not having recalled any specific instance of you commenting on them, I would bet you don't generally like Ultimate Warrior, Sid, or Scott Steiner promos. To me the same kinda charm in those promos is often the kind of charm contained in martial art movies. Like yeah their promos are dumb as hell but sometimes I just want FIERY PASSION moreso than anything else. That doesn't mean you're incapable of liking any promos from them (except maybe Sid), but you do probably have a significantly higher bar than I do.

But even having not seen around 1/4-1/3 of these movies I can confidently say I would rank Kung Pow 40 as well so it's not exactly in the way Inviso was saying it every time he was either, to be clear.
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You're a little bit right. Scott Steiner is not a "So bad it's good" type. He is a self-parody and he knows it, and he's good at it, to boot. Warrior was just bad. I know people love his over the top passion, but it's nonsensical and therefore useless. Sid is EXACTLY "So bad it's good". He's the definition of it in wrestling. The guy botches every promo and it's highly enjoyable. Even his leg botched at a legendary Only-Sid-Can-Do-It level.
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I would disagree with you on Steiner except really late in his career. In late TNA his gimmick was basically "I don't watch the show and I'm going to make this painfully obvious." Which I guess was his best stuff.

Though I guess when you said "it has to be so overblown on badness that it would be 1/100" I should have thought Sid a shoe in ha ha.

Anyway, yeah, I'll take "a little bit right" as good enough in any case!
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Like, I didn't really enjoy Steiner as a champ in WCW that much. He was better than the 9 months of crap before his first run, but that's not saying much.
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Okay yeah.

I think I get you now then, mostly, even if I didn't quite get it before. I mean that's not to say I can predict your tastes exactly but I do at least have an idea of the kinda stuff you'll like in this genre a lot more than I will and vice versa well enough, even if we don't agree, and can curve reactions appropriately. Much moreso than the bottom 3. It was easier to pinpoint for you because I find your rankings mostly agreeable with the exception of that one element (which does throw a few of em way the hell off but I digress)

But yeah I do think a lot of martial arts movies I consider good are like Ultimate Warrior promos in appeal, either way. Which is probably our main disconnect-- particularly cause Warrior is by far my favorite of the three promos I listed.
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Which is fine - I can understand liking Warrior's promos. What I can't understand is liking a Roman Reigns promo or a Triple H promo. Those I'll never get. What is the appeal of long, bland diatribes?
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turkey bump
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hmm
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16. Enter the Dragon - 133 points

Snake - 8
Wickle - 10
Johnbobb - 14
JONA - 16
scarlet - 23
Karo - 27
Inviso - 35

Snake - I feel like this is definitely the first thing to pop into someones head when they think martial arts movie. Its the chief testament to Bruce Lees amazing talent as an actor and martial artist. The plot is simple but exhilarting, and theres some interesting theming in this film, especially regarding blaxploitation. Rich in atmoshphere with a top-notch score, Enter the Dragon is must for martial arts and film fans all around.

Wickle - Not only did I first think Roper looked like Sean Connery as James Bond, but this had the feel of a James Bond movie. We had suave moments, spy moments, evil villain being very Bond-like besides the Kung Fu movie stereotype of he has dishonored this dojo! Uh, the dropping a body into water that may or may not have sharks, eels, or some other thing in it. Oh right, and the girl dying in the end anyway. Many Bond things. I enjoyed also that they gave some backstory in the major characters, having Roper and Wilson both have scenes before they came to China. Oh, and did you know that it was racist in Confederate states in the 60s and clearly 70s? @scarletspeed7 DID YOU KNOW THAT!?

Johnbobb - Now heres a film thats a classic and deserves to be. Bruce Lee was at his best; theres great acting, great camerawork, and great combat all around. If more of the 70s Martial Arts films were like this, I could see myself getting more into the genre. The story of course isnt the MOST standout now, though it was moreso at the time (Im kind of ashamed to say the movie gave me flashbacks to Balls of Fury, which Im now realizing completely ripped off Enter the Dragons plot). Still, it suffices, and makes for a fun revenge subplot in a movie that that isnt JUST about revenge. Its also cool to see the one white person in a tournament of Asian fighters trope where the white hero isnt the main protagonist of the film.

JONA - Bruce Lee's most well-known film and it's a great film to be known for. The action's great, especially the fight in the mirror hallway, and had a great setting with the tournament site looking great and also having the feel of a spy movie. The two non-Bruce characters are also quite entertaining in their own ways, despite this being Bruce's spotlight. Just an awesome and oddly quotable classic.

scarlet - They story is so shoddy that it's unintentionally hilarious anytime Lee isn't kicking someone in the face, but when he is fighting it's entertaining and was unlike other kung fu films I had seen prior to this list.

Karo - Bruce Lee enters an elite martial arts competition as cover to dig up dirt on the reclusive 'Mr. Han'. Han is supposedly a rogue shaolin monk, but he seems more of a reject from the Bond school of villainy, from the 'secret' island hideout to the gadget ridden lair and the fluffy white cat and the evil monologuing and he's got a fucking claw for his hand jesus christ. In all honesty it feels like they took an unused Moore-era Bond script and stuck Bruce Lee in it, creating the Disco Stu and douchenozzle american characters to take on the scenes where Bond has sex with the beautiful girls.
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