Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 142: You know what you're getting into

(+) Yeah! (+)

I never said I "only" needed to get 30. I was trying to reach 30, which I failed to do on the 10s list. The 90s list hit it no problem. I didn't just stop at 30 or something.

You're dismissing it because my list is different than yours and for some reason you think it can't be.

EDIT: Oh, I did hit 30 on the 10s. Either way.
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StealThisSheen posted...

And you WEREN'T going in with criteria? Come on, now. The only thing telling us yours is exhaustive is your word, which means shit since you're refusing to accept mine.

If you're wanting to say my list is made with an agenda, then just say that to begin with. I'm saying I had my list for other reasons Johnbobb can attest to. If you don't don't believe that that's fine.

Dont bullshit about statistics when you don't know anything about them, though. That wastes both of our time.
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What's so unbelievable about my list? That I watched a lot of Nickelodeon and family shows as a kid? That I didn't watch a ton of adult sitcoms? I'm honestly confused why this is making you go "No, this has to be fake!"
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I'm saying your list is primed with a bias and that combined with the fact you covered both so quickly and were specifically aiming for 30 makes me discard your list because it's the definition of cherry picked
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Lopen posted...

I'm saying your list is primed with a bias and that combined with the fact you covered both and were specifically aiming for 30 makes me discard your list because it's the definition of cherry picked

You were the one that told me I had to have atleast 30! The fact that one managed to surpass it and the other barely makes it doesn't somehow mean I cherry picked.
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Also, I'm still waiting for you to tell me where you think I cherry picked. You had an issue with the 90s part, so tell me what it is.

Is it the fact that I watched Kenan and Kel and All That? Is it because I didn't watch Coach, Designing Women, and NewsRadio?

Can you tell me what's weird about that which would make you think "He had to have cherry picked?"
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I'm just saying if you actually looked at every show, your list would be a lot longer and it'd be less skewed in favor of the point you're making

Like I'm not saying you're outright lying to win an argument, just that half assing this when you clearly have examples of each side on your mind is a very easy way to have an inaccurate list that's grossly skewed in favor of your point. Those are the ones you're thinking of at the time.
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jesus fuck what is wrong with you two
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Lopen posted...

I'm just saying if you actually looked at every show, your list would be a lot longer and it'd be less skewed in favor of the point you're making

Like I'm not saying you're outright lying to win an argument, just that half assing this when you clearly have examples of each side on your mind is a very easy way to have an inaccurate list that's grossly skewed in favor of your point. Those are the ones you're thinking of at the time.

I'm glad you know what I watched more than I know what I watched.

Just admit that you don't like that it doesn't support your argument, since so far that's the only thing you're saying. I'm not even saying my list makes any kind of point, because it doesn't. I barely watched any adult-geared shows in the 90s. Obviously, that would change things.

All I'm trying to say is our findings are different because we watched different types of shows.

But for some reason, you can't accept that. Instead of accepting "Yeah, SEP mostly watched kids/family shows and a few shows with his parents in the 90s," you're going "No, your list is fake."

I'm not saying my list makes your list wrong or anything. I'm literally only saying "We watched different kinds of shows, so that makes sense why our opinions are different."

You're the one that came in with the notion that NO list could possibly end up with a different percentage than your list, so you're refusing to even accept that our lists could end up different.

Like, what the actual fuck.
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what is even happening anymore
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

what is even happening anymore

Lopen is refusing to accept that his opinion/experience isn't the only opinion/experience, and I'm refusing to accept that he refuses to accept that, so we're arguing like idiots and dickheads.
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If you had an actual process for creating your list that wasn't inherently biased yes I would accept it.

Taking what you remember of my list, naming the first 10 shows that come to mind to fit the quota, when you've been thinking about shows that fit criteria you're arguing for the past hour.

Like how do you not see an inherent bias there. Boggles the mind. This isn't being stubborn or trying to win an argument it's just basic common sense.
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Lopen posted...

This isn't being stubborn or trying to win an argument it's just basic common sense.

No, it's literally you just trying to win an argument. My position after posting my list was "Agree to disagree because we had different experiences." Your position is "My list is legit, your list is fake."
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Your list is real. Your effort put into it is fake.
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Lopen any point you had to make went out the window as soon as you admitted to not having watched Hey Arnold!

if you're really trying to make a comparison here, you should probably just stick to network television instead of all television to control for the number of shows in consideration.

There's literally one million television shows now, so you could make a list of 30 or 60 or whatever that supports any conclusion you want.
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Like it's easy to agree to disagree when that in and of itself is winning the argument because your argument is literally shaking your fist at basic statistics and trying to make them out to be something that's like a matter of opinion or something.
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Lopen posted...

Your list is real. Your effort put into it is fake.

"Well, how large would your show list be, though. Like I seriously doubt if you name 30+ shows from each without cherry picking that you're getting it anywhere near single digits. "

This was literally your position. You weren't going to believe any list I made, no matter how long it took or what it included, unless it matched your conclusion.

You're literally refusing to believe that I watched Nickelodeon over adult sitcoms, and refusing to just agree to disagree, because you're so obsessed with being "correct."

And I'm so obsessed with arguing that I can't just back away and go "Sure, Lopen. Sure."

What is wrong with us.
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I said you couldn't by not cherry picking

You cherry picked (not willfully, just by nature of our discussion combined with half assing it)

Pretty straightforward!
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Your only reasoning for cherry-picking is literally "Your list has more shows that had black characters than mine does, you must be cherry-picking." Instead of the obvious answer of... Kids/family shows had more black characters than adult sitcoms back in the 90s.

Believe whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.
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Like, there are a lot things I'd accept defeat on

1. Actual randomly generated list doesn't come close to my proportions
2. Actual exhaustive list from you doesn't come close
3. Someone saying,"nah dude you're misremembering those statistics classes from 10 years ago"

You half assing a list that has a biased creation process though? Not good enough.
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Believe me this is doing the opposite of helping me sleep.
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you missed out on so many life lessons from that show

Nick sux.
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Lopen posted...

Like, there are a lot things I'd accept defeat on

1. Actual randomly generated list doesn't come close to my proportions
2. Actual exhaustive list from you doesn't come close
3. Someone saying,"nah dude you're misremembering those statistics classes from 10 years ago"

You half assing a list that has a biased creation process though? Not good enough.

What is making you so completely sure that my list isn't as exhaustive as it's going to get? Is it possible I missed a show or two? Sure, but that wouldn't change anything. And the list doesn't include shows where 90% of the cast was animals, or else I'd have Ninja Turtles on the No list and Street Sharks on the Yes list. You have no basis to believe that the list isn't exhaustive other than the fact that it doesn't fit the conclusion that you told me it was going to fit.
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why is it because they cast a lot of black people?

No, my basis is you made it in 10 minutes and it has mostly shows from my list.
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Lopen posted...

No, my basis is you made it in 10 minutes and it has mostly shows from my list.

Let's go over the shows on your list:

Martin
Family Matters
Hanging With My Cooper
Fresh Prince
King of Queens
South Park
Stargate
Futurama
Power Rangers
Walker Texas Ranger
Mad TV
Law & Order
Family Guy
Saved by the Bell
Married With Children

Nash Bridges
Home Improvement
Friends
That 70s Show
King of the Hill
Everybody Loves Raymond
Full House

I already mentioned MWC, Saved by the Bell, Law and Order, Martin, and Power Rangers earlier in the topic/agreed with them when Jakyl mentioned them. South Park I obviously watch because I posted in the game topic for it. Futurama is pretty obvious from all the other shows I watch like Simpsons, American Dad, Family Guy, etc. Fresh Prince and Family Matters... Come on, now. Mad TV I've posted about before. Stargate obviously fits with the interest in the Star Treks. My dad watched Walker (and Nash), but let's say you find Walker, Mr. Cooper, and King of Queens odd. Those are pretty outweighed by the 7 shows we had in common in the "Mostly/all white" column, don't you think?

If I was cherry picking shows from your list to match my "agenda," I sure did a shitty job.
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Your point has nothing to do with statistics, because I'm not even arguing statistics. My point was "Our opinions/experience on 90s vs. now is different because we watched different types of shows."

You're the one that came in going "I doubt you could have a list that doesn't match my conclusion." You're the one going "No, we couldn't have had different experiences, you're just lying/biased/whatever."

You're literally trying to tell me that it's impossible that my 90s viewing experience was different than yours.

That's not statistics.
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You won stop hitting me.

I'm just going to delete that message because I actually am not trying to call you stupid here believe it or not.
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Um... I thought I walked into the politics topic here. Did I miss something?
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ok lopen, for the sake of this argument let's say SEP's list is extremely biased, cherry picked and worthless. but do you think that if ANYONE who's about the same age as us and watches a reasonable amount of TV made a list of '90s and '10s shows they've seen, they would reach the same "there's more black characters in TV shows now than in the '90s" conclusion? like, if their '90s list would have more TV shows with black characters than your '90s list (because it contained more nickelodeon shows than adult sitcoms), would it be fake by default?

i think this is the core issue you keep dancing around because you're specficially attacking SEP's list.
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Aside from South Park are one of those shows actually relevant in 2017?

And why is this topic on the front page?

Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/921888248707846144
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/921889525881819136
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/921891186352287744

I agree getting Tax Cuts approved is important (we will also get HealthCare), but perhaps no Administration has done more in its first.....
...9 months than this Administration. Over 50 Legislation approvals, massive regulation cuts, energy freedom, pipelines, border security....
...2nd Amendment, Strong Military, ISIS, historic VA improvement, Supreme Court Justice, Record Stock Market, lowest unemployment in 17 yrs!

I...think Donald Trump just took credit for approving the 2nd Amendment?

Now you know he didnt. Why do you guys keep doing this.

What was he trying to say though? How on earth did he do more for the 2nd Amendment when there's nothing needed to do in support of it because it's already a freaking Amendment?
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Lopen posted...

List if anyone is interested:

https://pastebin.com/1sdX1Uiw

Clueless had Donald Faison and Stacey Dash in every episode.
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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/921888248707846144
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/921889525881819136
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/921891186352287744

I agree getting Tax Cuts approved is important (we will also get HealthCare), but perhaps no Administration has done more in its first.....
...9 months than this Administration. Over 50 Legislation approvals, massive regulation cuts, energy freedom, pipelines, border security....
...2nd Amendment, Strong Military, ISIS, historic VA improvement, Supreme Court Justice, Record Stock Market, lowest unemployment in 17 yrs!

I...think Donald Trump just took credit for approving the 2nd Amendment?

Now you know he didnt. Why do you guys keep doing this.

It was a joke based on the premise of WTF is he referring to there?
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Also wow. This topic title turned out to be massively wrong <_<
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perhaps no administration has done more

perhaps, indeed
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Se7enthrust posted...

Um... I thought I walked into the politics topic here. Did I miss something?

Are you surprised? Lol
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Not to reignite the conversation, but it's quite easy to create a large list of shows from the 90s and 10s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programs_broadcast_by_American_Broadcasting_Company
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programs_broadcast_by_CBS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programs_broadcast_by_Fox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programs_broadcast_by_NBC

Have at it if you want.
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thanks charmander i'm now going to go through those lists and see how many black people were in every one of those shows just to see if lopen or SEP was right

>_>
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

like, if their '90s list would have more TV shows with black characters than your '90s list (because it contained more nickelodeon shows than adult sitcoms), would it be fake by default?

Uh, no.

Do you actually not understand why a list created with this topic in mind, specifically from the mind of a person who has been arguing a topic for an hour, who is specifically working to reach a quota of 30, would contain some amount of bias in favor of their point? Like I can accept I'm wrong, just do it with a method that doesn't have an extreme selection bias like that.

Also my bad on Clueless I literally just remembered it as all blondes. Hated that show.
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Lopen posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

like, if their '90s list would have more TV shows with black characters than your '90s list (because it contained more nickelodeon shows than adult sitcoms), would it be fake by default?

Uh, no.

Do you actually not understand why a list created with this topic in mind, specifically from the mind of a person who has been arguing a topic for an hour, who is specifically working to reach a quota of 30, would contain some amount of bias in favor of their point? Like I can accept I'm wrong, just do it with a method that doesn't have an extreme selection bias like that.

Also my bad on Clueless I literally just remembered it as all blondes. Hated that show.

What Clueless is like one of the best movies ever made
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Wow I kind of wish I hadn't caught up.

Lopen just admit you're wrong because this is sad.
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Now that being said, even if you were to normalize SEP's to my selection's proportions, and extend them out to 50 each, you'd still get a pretty different tale from mine. It'd be about 60% even on both sides.

So I think I'd probably change my argument to "Non-children's programming in general is a lot better in this regard from the 90s vs Today" or "Broadcast TV programming" since uh, yeah, that's mostly what mine is on both sides.
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BTW LapisLazuli had nothing to do with that concession because I don't think he's ever read an argument with the intent to discuss anything in his life
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Lopen posted...

BTW LapisLazuli had nothing to do with that concession because I don't think he's ever read an argument with the intent to discuss anything in his life

You literally just made a post after a full page of arguing saying "well I'm just going to change the criteria of what we were arguing about so that I'm right".
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Lopen posted...

BTW LapisLazuli had nothing to do with that concession because I don't think he's ever read an argument with the intent to discuss anything in his life

Don't worry, I don't think anyone would ever mistake LtM for being the cause of winning an argument.
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Actually no that literally was conceding the point to SEP (his point wasn't that there was more in the 90s, just that different lists are going to be in wildly different proportions because of higher concentrations in certain areas), there.

If you'd actually read the arguments instead of just blindly supporting the poster you like more like you always do you'd know as much
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I don't beleive I've ever interacted with SEP in 15 years.

I responded because I read the argument and you were being ridiculous. Not to mention you have a history of being absurdley stubborn amd saying the same thing over and over again.

Perhaps I misread that latest post, but.no the ones before it.
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